Scamming...Your opinion - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Thorath Of Krosa

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Cornville,Arizona USA

Urban Storm Troopers [USTG] (Leader)

W/Mo

17 Feb 2006 at 04:19 - 1

Hello everyone,
This is a topic that recently caught my attention and I was suprised about how much I was thinking about it. There really is alot of good points on this topic that sway my opinion upon scamming. On one hand you have to consider that the people that you are scamming have worked really hard to get whatever gold you are trying to get and deserve to hang on to it. On the other hand you have to see it from the scammers point of view, why should it be so horribal to scam its reallys just a mind game to see who can sniff out the scams the best. I agree to both of these point of views and am wondering on your take

For the record I havent scammed yet (I feel to guilty about it)

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 04:22 - 2

Because it's not fair.

eom

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/N

17 Feb 2006 at 04:29 - 3

they've worked really hard for it?

Feminist Terrorist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Oh Noes! The 'burbs!

17 Feb 2006 at 04:31 - 4

Don't parents teach their kids right from wrong anymore? Just because it's online, doesn't make it right. Not at all. Shame on you, Thorath.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 04:38 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feminist Terrorist

...Shame on you, Thorath.

Well to be fair to Thorath, she wasn't supporting scammers. Her opinions may be flawed but she was just asking a simple question that could be deduced via logic.

Rayne Nightfyre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Acolytes of Lyssa [AL]

Me/A

17 Feb 2006 at 04:39 - 6

I by no means agree with what you said Thorath, I wish all scammers would be banned instantly, it's plain wrong. But my feelings are if someone gets scammed, it's pretty much their own fault for being careless or not paying enough attention(in most cases). So all these recent posts dealing with scamming can be summed up in the following: Just pay attention.

Hamstein

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Zealand

Teh Fellowship

17 Feb 2006 at 04:43 - 7

Scammers are the lowest of the low.Profiting from ruining someone else`s enjoyment of the game,they should be perma banned.(i`ve never been scammed but they still piss me off)

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 04:47 - 8

Scammers are the scourges of greed that cannot be destroyed, where there is profit, they shall dwell. Heed the doctrine and thrive: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

17 Feb 2006 at 04:59 - 9

Scammers are thieves. Thievery in old Europe used to be a hanging offense. In ancient Persia, thieves who were caught got their primary hand chopped off with a sword. In the modern world, looters taking advantage of wide-scale disasters are normally shot dead on sight by the military.

What do I think of scammers? Well, I think you get the idea...

{IceFire}

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

17 Feb 2006 at 05:04 - 10

scammers=ftl. i have lost at least 350k due to them. no joke. they can go die.

eom

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/N

17 Feb 2006 at 05:08 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by {IceFire}

scammers=ftl. i have lost at least 350k due to them. no joke. they can go die.

hehehe....dude, I need to trade you something.

bleh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Z.

_

P/

17 Feb 2006 at 05:10 - 12

there is the opinion "if they fall for it they deserve to loose it"
but that is just wrong people worked for that money and they put hours of there life into it.

personally i think scammers are worms

scamming is a nice way of saying STEALING
they are scum

osiB

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Feb 2006 at 05:11 - 13

The scammer is a must in all MMORPGs in my opinion. You want to have the bad seeds that are in the game. If everybody plays fair, the game would be pointless. I could go into detail but I don't want to write a whole essay.

{IceFire}

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

17 Feb 2006 at 05:19 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

hehehe....dude, I need to trade you something.

dude thats not cool. i spent over 10 hours farming that money, and it was scammed. I am by nature a trusting person. At least I earned my money clean and have a sense of accomplishment. Would you do this in real life? I think not. Guild Wars really needs GM's atm.... theyre basically the police of MMO's, kinda.

eom, go earn your money instead of scamming someone. are you heartless like all other scammers? games are supposed to be for ENJOYMENT, not scamming someone.... that is truly taking a game too seriously.

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

17 Feb 2006 at 05:23 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by osiB

The scammer is a must in all MMORPGs in my opinion. You want to have the bad seeds that are in the game. If everybody plays fair, the game would be pointless. I could go into detail but I don't want to write a whole essay.

Incorrect. Disruptive behavior such as scamming normally earns someone either a temporary or permanent ban in almost every modern MMORPG, including GW. The problem is separating the criminals from the falsely accused, which is why screen shots, names, times, and places are needed for ANET to permanently boot anyone.

If everybody plays fair, then the game would be more enjoyable. You don't have to sucumb to greed and destroy another person's gaming experience just for personal gain. It's up to the individual to prove that they are better than just another parasite, instead of being a life not worth saving.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 05:25 - 16

I think what osiB meant to say is that scammers will always exist, no matter the degree of actions taken upon by those who can persecute them. Although I disagree that playing fair will be pointless...

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

17 Feb 2006 at 05:28 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

I think what osiB meant to say is that scammers will always exist, no matter the degree of actions taken upon by those who can persecute them. Although I disagree that playing fair will be pointless...

He probably meant to say that scammers are an "innevitability" of MMORPG's, not a must (or choice). I agree... since selfishness and greed are part of human nature. It's the people who rise above this dark side of human nature that I commend.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 05:34 - 18

Pretty much. as mmorpg is a mirror of the real world, reflecting both our good side and the bad.

Just as utopia is only imaginary and unachievable, so shall a game where everyone plays fair...

Rayne Nightfyre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Acolytes of Lyssa [AL]

Me/A

17 Feb 2006 at 05:41 - 19

Oh my god...lol...Bleh, that is the scariest avatar I have ever seen!

My Sweet Revenga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

17 Feb 2006 at 05:41 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by {IceFire}

scammers=ftl. i have lost at least 350k due to them. no joke. they can go die.

Ouch. Are you the guy who tried to buy a ton of ectos, ended up getting mursatt tokens instead, and then formed a team to journey to get fissure only to find out at the end that you didn't have ectos but in fact you were scammed? Thought I read that somewhere.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

17 Feb 2006 at 05:48 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga

Ouch. Are you the guy who tried to buy a ton of ectos, ended up getting mursatt tokens instead, and then formed a team to journey to get fissure only to find out at the end that you didn't have ectos but in fact you were scammed? Thought I read that somewhere.

lol, holy crap that story was so sad, i cried....

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 Feb 2006 at 05:51 - 22

There's no excuse for scamming. If you attempt a scam, and succeed, you deserve to be banned. If you attempt a scam, and fail, you still deserve to be banned.

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

17 Feb 2006 at 05:57 - 23

Mursatt Tokens do not even look like ectos at all.

Try as I might I tweaked my monitor in a really bizarre way to see if I can possible fool myself into believing that those tokens are indeed ectos. I can't. The color and the art is totally different.

Oh yeah, of course if your argument is "No way! They are both round.. and KINDA reddish (well the tokens are purple btw)" then my counter argument is "Fool. Money. What happens in the end? Parted!"

Dawgboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ohio

Antisocial Misfit

17 Feb 2006 at 06:13 - 24

Robbing a bank is probably hard work too, but it doen't mean they should get away with the money.

I know it's not the same thing, but then again neither "hard work" nor "scammer" go together. It's just some dillhole too LAZY to EARN their gold the honest way.

Owen

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

17 Feb 2006 at 06:17 - 25

The main thing to remember is that yes, scamming is stealing and it is possible to steal even a ficticious element like in game gold.

The act of scamming denotes a marked lack of character on the part of the scammer. This also indicates the potential for this person to carry this tendency to scam to greater lengths, an online scammer can easily become the mechanic who scams you out of $100 on labor he never did.

They say that it's a troubling sign if a child is observed 'killing' stuffed toys or harming pets, this is an indication of a greater problem, a deeper psychological problem. Scamming is also an indication of a greater problem, sometimes it stems from a person's feeling of powerless-ness in their own life and sometimes it stems from good old dishonesty. Whatever the source scamming is wrong because it harms your fellow man and no matter what your world view or religious affiliation respect for one's fellow man should be at the core of any moral life.

Chess is a test of wits with both players on an even playing field and put there with the intention of engaging in said game of wits. Scamming is not a game of wits because by it's very nature only one side initially knows the game is being played.

What's worse is that something as simple as being scammed out of gold that doesn't exist can be enough to shake a person's ability to trust his fellow man in social settings in real life. What you must ask yourself, as a scammer, is if you are ok with trading bytes of gold for a fellow human's ability to trust people. Bullying, though it seems innocent at times, has been shown to have damaging effects years after the actual events and I fear that scamming in online games amounts to nothing more than a form of bullying whose lasting effects have yet to be measured.

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

17 Feb 2006 at 06:24 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgboy

Robbing a bank is probably hard work too, but it doen't mean they should get away with the money.

I know it's not the same thing, but then again neither "hard work" nor "scammer" go together. It's just some dillhole too LAZY to EARN their gold the honest way.

No, in a lot of ways it is the same thing.

We don't determine the 'rightness' of an action by how hard you have to work on it, otherwise some businessmen would be the scum of the world while prostitutes and blue collar workers would be the kings and queens.

The 'rightness' or 'badness' of an action is a matter of ethical reasoning for it. Why is it bad to steal (which scamming essentially is)? That's your own to answer.

Anyway, I can't see there being much actual discussion here...

shadowfell

hamonite anur ruk

Join Date: Jan 2006

Echovald Forest

[PhD] Teh Academy

Me/A

17 Feb 2006 at 06:31 - 27

scammers should have their accounts wiped, just so they see how it feels to start over from scratch... just in case they have forgotten.

Corwin Feist

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Our Name is Legion

E/Mo

17 Feb 2006 at 07:18 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

scammers should have their accounts wiped, just so they see how it feels to start over from scratch... just in case they have forgotten.

That's an excellent idea. Far better than a temporary ban.

Corwin

Griff Mon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

In the Elfen Forests of Washington State

Damage Radius

N/

17 Feb 2006 at 07:30 - 29

I've never been scammed-but then I usually don't buy from players (except for occasional runs) and usually go with runners that collect at some point where you can tell they are legitimate.

One time, I was up in Mineral Springs and everyone died except for me and another monk. We backed off and healed everyone but it took several minutes. And in that time a IDS that had dropped for another player had been freed up for anyone. I picked it up before I rezed the guy and he pitched a fit.

I just picked it up because it was there and some players had dropped out. He claimed I was ripping him off, etc. etc. His attitude was that I had stolen from him, but according to the rules of the game, it was free for anyone to take.

I gave it to him. Inspite of the fact that he was being a total a****le about it.

Never even got a thank you. Never saw another IDS either. But I was tempted to keep it. Part of me wish I had, but for the most part I feel pretty good about giving it back to him even though he was a total jerk about it.

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

17 Feb 2006 at 07:51 - 30

Petty theft is all it is; I don't see it as a happy-go-lucky game of cat and mouse.

Theives are gutter trash, no matter if their true 'social class'.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

17 Feb 2006 at 07:54 - 31

Really if you look at it with any sort of sense of fairness and rationality, its just plain wrong.

Puppets

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

Internet Serious Business

W/

17 Feb 2006 at 08:03 - 32

With abit of forum reading, one can avoid getting scammed. Seriously I don't know why new players are getting scammed when they all need to do it just read 10 minute worth of info. Don't tell me 'omg i dont know where 2 look omg om

' Type Guildwars fansite into google, GG.

Juicey Shake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

CA

in it for the trimmmm

R/

17 Feb 2006 at 08:05 - 33

Ohhhnooo, I just lost 900k selling ectooo, what will I ever doooooo?!

I wouldn't care. I could lose my hoard of supplies, ecto, thousands of gold, I wouldn't really mind. It's a game, big deal, I shouldn't have been playing so much anyhow.

If some kid wants to take that all away from me, some kid that's going to play all day and that's it, well hey, if he can manage to do so, I don't care.

Then again, I'm super alert when I trade [which is rarely] so it wouldn't happen.

had someone try to scam me once, took no screens & didn't allow the trade to go through, so I got to talking with him, he showed me some of his profit. He currently doesn't play much, but has fissure on his ranger, 1.4 million gold, and multiple sup vigors and sup absorbs still banked on his account. I think it's just sad, really.

Stranger The Ranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Those Netherlands

Dynasty Warriors [DW]

R/

17 Feb 2006 at 08:06 - 34

Scamming is for sad, lazy, mindless people who don't know there's a living person behind the character he/she scammed.

Period.

Despiar26

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

No Fooking Around [NFA]

W/Mo

17 Feb 2006 at 08:14 - 35

People that get scammed aren't stupid. The people that scam are, people like that are often the cause of somebody quitting the game...
Why don't just make your own money instead of ripping people off and hurting their feelings? It's just a game, i agree but you do invest alot of time on it.

Scammers should be banned from anything related to GuildWars, including forums and such.

Moltov joss

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

D/

17 Feb 2006 at 08:21 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorath Of Krosa

Hello everyone,
This is a topic that recently caught my attention and I was suprised about how much I was thinking about it. There really is alot of good points on this topic that sway my opinion upon scamming. On one hand you have to consider that the people that you are scamming have worked really hard to get whatever gold you are trying to get and deserve to hang on to it. On the other hand you have to see it from the scammers point of view, why should it be so horribal to scam its reallys just a mind game to see who can sniff out the scams the best. I agree to both of these point of views and am wondering on your take

For the record I havent scammed yet (I feel to guilty about it)

Have you ever been scammed? I am sure if you were you wouldn't be able to agree to both points. It's my opinion that people who scam are just lazy or don't have enough time to save up 1000k+ for Fow.

milan

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

BONE

N/

17 Feb 2006 at 08:26 - 37

While I don't like scammers and what they do I feel that I've gotta add my opinion to this string - we all know what they say about opinions.

While there has got to be a scammer and a 'victim' the nature of guild wars means that you have to actively assist the scammer before you can be scammed. Kinda like helping the bank robber by carrying the money to his get away car.

That brings me to another point, the correlations people are making with real life thefts and punishments. Sure if someone steals from me in real life it would be dealt with in my own way rather swiftly, however if someone steals from me something that never actually belonged to me (everything belonging to Anet) I don't feel that cutting off their hand, sending to jail etc etc is a option.

I feel that scammers should be warned and punished once, maybe twice before being banned, if it can be proven that they scammed then an account wipe, but then again that could spur them on to scam more to regain their losses

Ninjutsu Honor Code

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Holland

Sidon, Order of Assasins

R/W

17 Feb 2006 at 08:42 - 38

Sometimes i think if Anet wouldnt have nerfed every farmspot in the world, they wouldnt force people into scamming to actually having a decent way of getting money. Yeah i tought about that a lot cause to me it seems the only way to get expensive gear is either scamming, e-bay or farming a lifetime.
I just cant be arsed to act greedy enough to do that.

JediKnight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

A Galaxy Far Far Away

W/R

17 Feb 2006 at 08:52 - 39

Scammers should have their characters tweaked by Anet so that everyone could see them coming.

William Stark

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

UK

The Imperial Guards

W/Mo

17 Feb 2006 at 09:12 - 40

If there is one thing I could add to the game to cut down on scammer sit would be an extra category in my friends list where I could add their names.

At the moment, the only contents of my ignore list are the various scammers I have met (usually on runs, but a few others who have been more unpleasant). I'd dearly love to have a feature that would highlight these people on screen if ever they are in the same district, just so I could warn other people when they are 'plying their wares'.

The ToA community is quite good at flagging up known scammers though- possibly because this is where you get a lot of the wealthier players, so the scammers flock in.