a very good friend of mine got scammed when he wanted to buy the bulwark. (typical item swap to clean shadow shield after 4-5 aborted sessions)
well, i myself stop trading in total when a person starts to close and open trade more than 3 times - and i always check what i accept on (viva mouse.hover functions).
anyhow, back to the story - so that guy went off with a laugh, but my friend had screenshots which we sent to the scammer's guildleader (who was very displeased) and yesterday i started whispering that particular person: giving him a chance to even out a some karma -- of course he denied that he would have ever scammed anyone... took 5 minutes, then i gave him a link with the uploaded screen... long story short, after 2 hours i get a whisper from my friend - he got his money back. (and my friend got to know 2 more of his victims that got their gold back as well) - lucky but rare ending there...
moral? scamming is not nice, and its certainly not honest... people who scam others online will most likely do it in RL as well - and vice versa; there is no protection against idiots... aura of intelligence won't work cause they can't understand its concept. (/endshortsarcasticoutburst)
one thing to do: check your trades, report scammers to anet and especially to their guild leader / officers -- mostly they don't fear the wrath of anet, but they are just human beeings in social structures - and if those structures are about to collapse they will be hurt, at least a little bit...
~Aya Starshine, Guardian of Tyria~
ps: there are always 2 people involved in a scam, and after the 2nd time beeing scammed ppl should think about their trade habits... after almost 10months i still run around without beeing scammed once - but trust me, they tried - and they always left the town cause i followed them into every freaking district to warn others. O_o
Scamming...Your opinion
Uzul
mohh
I hate scammers and I personally ruin their day whenever i run into them. Just the other night someone was trying to sell the formula for white dye so I just posted it for everyone to see.
Others are when people try to sell armor pieces in pre, to the noobs...
Others are when people try to sell armor pieces in pre, to the noobs...
Diablo???
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Originally Posted by HDS
No, but what i was saying(which you SHOULD have realised) was that to get rid of scammers you need to get rid of the cause.
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And please elaborate without resorting to personal attacks, I have much respect for a reasonable debate, but not one who lacks reason.
Mimi Miyagi
Although many have tried to scam me (probably about 20-30% of all of my trades), no one has successfully done so. If you value your hard earned items and cash, then you'll take the time to make sure you're getting what you are supposed to be before hitting "accept". Careless people will be taken advantage of.
And when a scammer tries to rip me off, I make sure everyone in the district I'm in knows it.
Scammers deserve to have their accounts permanently banned. The scammed deserve to lose their money. Win win situation. ANet makes money by selling the scammers an account then banning it, reducing bandwidth, and the scammed learn (hopefully) a valuable lesson.
FWIW, people selling overpriced items to noobs in Ascalon, buying black dyes in presearing for pennies on the dollar, etc, are not scamming anyone. Both people agree on the trade, ignorance is no excuse. It may be unethical, but caveat emptor.
And when a scammer tries to rip me off, I make sure everyone in the district I'm in knows it.
Scammers deserve to have their accounts permanently banned. The scammed deserve to lose their money. Win win situation. ANet makes money by selling the scammers an account then banning it, reducing bandwidth, and the scammed learn (hopefully) a valuable lesson.
FWIW, people selling overpriced items to noobs in Ascalon, buying black dyes in presearing for pennies on the dollar, etc, are not scamming anyone. Both people agree on the trade, ignorance is no excuse. It may be unethical, but caveat emptor.
HDS
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Originally Posted by Diablo™
Please direct this "cause" in your post. The Orange dunce cap? The rival gang? or the irrelevant example? Your post had 3 topics and neither seems to be your "cause" so it must be of a different matter. Perhaps you speak of emotional contempt towards the larger group of guild wars population for having greater wealth? Or is it a prejudice assumption that because a few worthless players resorted to using bots justify the actions of a scam?
And please elaborate without resorting to personal attacks, I have much respect for a reasonable debate, but not one who lacks reason. |
Diablo???
HDS, before this debate should succomb to nothing but foul language and insults. We should identify the topic we are refering to. There is a fine line between a misunderstanding and a malicious deception.
If you're speaking of the person (in the OP example) whom says "45" instead of "45k?" as a reasonable misunderstanding, then of course both parties are without fault.
But if the person used certain tactics in a DELIBERATE attempt to cheat the other out of what is a reasonable and proper trade, it is a textbook scam. As much as the person may try to justify his/her criminal activity by reasons of personal feelings, it is still a uncondonable scam.
Of course it is difficult to identify the other person's motive behind nothing but a screen name and a monitor, all that is left is an assumption, one that is just slightly easier to make in this case because few would imagine the value of the OP's item as only 45 gold.
If you're speaking of the person (in the OP example) whom says "45" instead of "45k?" as a reasonable misunderstanding, then of course both parties are without fault.
But if the person used certain tactics in a DELIBERATE attempt to cheat the other out of what is a reasonable and proper trade, it is a textbook scam. As much as the person may try to justify his/her criminal activity by reasons of personal feelings, it is still a uncondonable scam.
Of course it is difficult to identify the other person's motive behind nothing but a screen name and a monitor, all that is left is an assumption, one that is just slightly easier to make in this case because few would imagine the value of the OP's item as only 45 gold.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by HDS
Mislead deceptions, exactly but if you are the moron who is INCAPABLE of reading, not the scammers problem.
Imagine this: Guy gives you check for $1,000,000 instead of $10,000, for a cra or whatever, because he cannot read. You thank him and take your money. Is it your fault or his that he is an incapable moron? |
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HDS
The difference is one is a physical object and another is an object in a game.
If a person gives the same importance to a virtual object as to a real object then i will trade that person 10 HoD swords, 10 HoD axes and 10 Perfect crystallines for his $90,000 car, after all they ar eboth worth alot and both are worth money. |
Diablo???
If one can identify the motive of a suspected scammer, then much of our debate here can come to a close.
As the purpose of a debate is to reach a mutual conclusion through reasoning and comparisons, not insults and attacks.
If that is not what we're heading for, then I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
As the purpose of a debate is to reach a mutual conclusion through reasoning and comparisons, not insults and attacks.
If that is not what we're heading for, then I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
Loviatar
one little question HDSa rich famous person has eye surgery and bandages over their eyes.
you sneak past the hospital staff and let them think you are one of the nice nurses taking care of them and ask for an autograph.
instead of an autograph book they sign a check for 100,000 and you go out and cash it before anybody knows what happened.
did you commit theft ?
or are you simply a successful scammer and the moron deserved it for not checking?
EternalTempest
If you report scammers to anet (w/ screenshots) they will not likely do anything to recoup losses but it might get there account banned for a time or kicked if they have too many complaints log.
Blue Steel
Scammers are and always will be the dregs of society. They perpetrate FRAUD upon the unsuspecting, and in the process of committing FRAUD, they force higher transaction costs on the honest. People can protect themselves, but if lying, deceitful, ignorant, and idiotic SCAMMERS did not exploit everyone they could, the game would be more fun and easier to play for everyone.
DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISHONESTY HERE. The intelligent, kind, and noble will never embrace those who lie and cheat and commit fraud, especially as they try to rationalize it.
DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISHONESTY HERE. The intelligent, kind, and noble will never embrace those who lie and cheat and commit fraud, especially as they try to rationalize it.
Nevin
Scamming is something I expect from people who are poor or have not established themselves in the game, I was wrong.. Just recently I did a run for a male warrior in Fissure of Woe armor (Full set) He had Victo Axe and a Bulwrak, After I did the mission he immediately left and then started spamming that I scammed him?.. Even though I completed it.
Now just to prove how much of a fool this man (If he even was older then 18) He was saying I failed the Thirsty River mission, but spamming it in AUGERY ROCK? If we failed he would've been zoned back to Thirsty River. (What a moron)
I do respect the few good people in GW though, I've had people tip me for exceptional run times, and fill a failed payement due to a scammer.
Now just to prove how much of a fool this man (If he even was older then 18) He was saying I failed the Thirsty River mission, but spamming it in AUGERY ROCK? If we failed he would've been zoned back to Thirsty River. (What a moron)
I do respect the few good people in GW though, I've had people tip me for exceptional run times, and fill a failed payement due to a scammer.
lord_shar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue Steel
Scammers are and always will be the dregs of society. They perpetrate FRAUD upon the unsuspecting, and in the process of committing FRAUD, they force higher transaction costs on the honest. People can protect themselves, but if lying, deceitful, ignorant, and idiotic SCAMMERS did not exploit everyone they could, the game would be more fun and easier to play for everyone.
DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISHONESTY HERE. The intelligent, kind, and noble will never embrace those who lie and cheat and commit fraud, especially as they try to rationalize it. |
As someone else posted earlier, how a person conducts themself in GW is a reflection of who they are in real life. So, are all scammers evil? My answer: absolutely, but that doesn't mean they can't abandon their sick and twisted ways. Everyone has a choice, so I hope they make the best they can of their present lives, in game or out.
HDS
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
one little question HDSa rich famous person has eye surgery and bandages over their eyes. you sneak past the hospital staff and let them think you are one of the nice nurses taking care of them and ask for an autograph. instead of an autograph book they sign a check for 100,000 and you go out and cash it before anybody knows what happened. did you commit theft ? or are you simply a successful scammer and the moron deserved it for not checking? |
One is INCAPABLE of seeing, the other (most victims) are too lazy to observe.
HDS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue Steel
Scammers are and always will be the dregs of society. They perpetrate FRAUD upon the unsuspecting, and in the process of committing FRAUD, they force higher transaction costs on the honest. People can protect themselves, but if lying, deceitful, ignorant, and idiotic SCAMMERS did not exploit everyone they could, the game would be more fun and easier to play for everyone.
DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISHONESTY HERE. The intelligent, kind, and noble will never embrace those who lie and cheat and commit fraud, especially as they try to rationalize it. |
?!?!?! Excuse me?
Are you insinuating that i am a scammer? THAT, is really insulting.
That is completley uncalled for LBS, i really wouldnt have expect something liek that from you, notice the thread title "YOUR OPINION"? It's called freedom of thought, i shall think whatever i wish to think, never have i said that scamming is morally just, however i do believe that there is a cause for the scamming, possibly an envy of 'rich' people. Possibyl stupidity, i could go on, there are many possibilities.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lord_shar
Absolutely agreed. Scamming is a deliberate act of evil if the person is stealing for profit as opposed to survival. Even if that person doesn't believe in "karma," fate has a strange way of eventually repaying everyone whatever they deserve (yes, I'm talking both real life and GW).
As someone else posted earlier, how a person conducts themself in GW is a reflection of who they are in real life. So, are all scammers evil? My answer: absolutely, but that doesn't mean they can't abandon their sick and twisted ways. Everyone has a choice, so I hope they make the best they can of their present lives, in game or out. |
HDS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Diablo™
HDS, before this debate should succomb to nothing but foul language and insults. We should identify the topic we are refering to. There is a fine line between a misunderstanding and a malicious deception.
If you're speaking of the person (in the OP example) whom says "45" instead of "45k?" as a reasonable misunderstanding, then of course both parties are without fault. But if the person used certain tactics in a DELIBERATE attempt to cheat the other out of what is a reasonable and proper trade, it is a textbook scam. As much as the person may try to justify his/her criminal activity by reasons of personal feelings, it is still a uncondonable scam. Of course it is difficult to identify the other person's motive behind nothing but a screen name and a monitor, all that is left is an assumption, one that is just slightly easier to make in this case because few would imagine the value of the OP's item as only 45 gold. |
For some reason i cant send you pms... oh well, open letter i suppose:
Look, i'm not insulting your inteligence, or at least i am not trying to, all i am saying is, instead of complaining about how there are scammers people shoudl look at the root of the problem.
It's liek with gangs: "Gangs are full of morons who should be shot"
etc...
However none of thsoe people actually look as to why people join gangs, same goes for scammers, ban them ban them ban them, but everybody shuld take a moment and try to look at what is causing the scammers to exist. And combat that instead of the scammers.
To providee a fair analogy: It's like seeing a fire and poining the extinguisher at the top of the flames, nothign happens. You need to find the source.
+ As i said, i really find most of the "scams" as the 'victims' fault, lack of attention.
Without said lack of atention most scams wouldnt happen.
And in response to your above post: Yes, that is a textbook example of a scam if he knew that 45,000 gold was meant and not 45 gold, however, how will you manage to prove this if the other/seller did not specify 45 plat or 45,000 gold?
FunkyCrime
Scamming is wrong. No arguement
Ive been victim of attempted scams but never have fallen to them - if people just checked what they were trading there would be far less scams.
How long does it take to hover the mouse over the picture to see the text - 5seconds? No-one is in that much of a hurry not to do that.
Ive been victim of attempted scams but never have fallen to them - if people just checked what they were trading there would be far less scams.
How long does it take to hover the mouse over the picture to see the text - 5seconds? No-one is in that much of a hurry not to do that.
lg5000
btw, I don't endorse scamming.
Ok, I'm not in the US, so God only knows what your laws say about it. Yes, Scamming is Fraud, Fraud is illegal. It is however, no Theft.
Going back to the African email which offers lots of money.. how many people do you think have had money 'stolen' from them? Money they freely pay these scammers btw. And how many do you think got their money back?
If it was theft, one arrest would get them their money back. Fraud... one arrest and they still don't see the money back. Why? They handed it over willingly.
Well.. yes it is. He could have had a friend or lawyer with him to double check the information.. You're gonna tell me he didn't realise he can't read until then?
Ohh.. big words in caps.. try working with people who fall for real life scams and you'll see that while you think maybe you should feel sorry for them for loosing all their money, you can't help but wonder what sort of person would spend the type of money lost in scams before contacting the authorities about it.
It's like coming post searing and still taking someones offer and selling them black dye for 50g! (bad example). Hence, people who fall for the scams actually deserve it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
you are wrong on both counts
as to it not being theft check the penal code to see if it is in this case an agreement is made on a sale of an item (or service) for a specified price. it is exactly the same as if in real life you sold a gold plated item stating it was solid gold and getting the solid gold price. they willingly put up the money to buy the specified item if they didnt put up the money how could they get it? if the buyer has proof the scammer goes to jail or other sentence given by the judge what is stolen is possibly 100+ hours of work or longer that they used up getting that gold. scammers are thieves. no more no less thieves |
Going back to the African email which offers lots of money.. how many people do you think have had money 'stolen' from them? Money they freely pay these scammers btw. And how many do you think got their money back?
If it was theft, one arrest would get them their money back. Fraud... one arrest and they still don't see the money back. Why? They handed it over willingly.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HDS
Mislead deceptions, exactly but if you are the moron who is INCAPABLE of reading, not the scammers problem.
Imagine this: Guy gives you check for $1,000,000 instead of $10,000, for a cra or whatever, because he cannot read. You thank him and take your money. Is it your fault or his that he is an incapable moron? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue Steel
DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISHONESTY HERE. The intelligent, kind, and noble will never embrace those who lie and cheat and commit fraud, especially as they try to rationalize it.
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It's like coming post searing and still taking someones offer and selling them black dye for 50g! (bad example). Hence, people who fall for the scams actually deserve it.
lord_shar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HDS
Quote:
Are you insinuating that i am a scammer? THAT, is really insulting. That is completley uncalled for LBS, i really wouldnt have expect something liek that from you, notice the thread title "YOUR OPINION"? It's called freedom of thought, i shall think whatever i wish to think, never have i said that scamming is morally just, however i do believe that there is a cause for the scamming, possibly an envy of 'rich' people. Possibyl stupidity, i could go on, there are many possibilities. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue Steel
You missed something, LBS mentioned nothing of steling for survival, in his/her opinnion that is the same thing. EVEN IF the scammer may be doing that BECAUSE a few morons at the top of the GW money world decided that a sword should be worth 450K and not 45K... etc...
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HDS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lord_shar
In case you didn't notice, LBS mentioned names -- no fingers pointed. Is there any particular reason why you feel the post was directed at you?
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Combine that with the fact that i am the only one who is defending some scammers who were 'forced' into it.
Quote:
| That's because those were my words, not LBS's. Anyone can justify stealing food if it is a matter of survival. However, stealing for only self gain and nothing else is both evil and selfish... period. |
ab·so·lute·ly P Pronunciation Key (bs-ltl, bs-ltl)
adv.
Definitely and completely; unquestionably.
lord_shar
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Originally Posted by lg5000
btw, I don't endorse scamming.
Ok, I'm not in the US, so God only knows what your laws say about it. Yes, Scamming is Fraud, Fraud is illegal. It is however, no Theft. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Going back to the African email which offers lots of money.. how many people do you think have had money 'stolen' from them? Money they freely pay these scammers btw. And how many do you think got their money back?
If it was theft, one arrest would get them their money back. Fraud... one arrest and they still don't see the money back. Why? They handed it over willingly. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Well.. yes it is. He could have had a friend or lawyer with him to double check the information.. You're gonna tell me he didn't realise he can't read until then?
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Ohh.. big words in caps.. try working with people who fall for real life scams and you'll see that while you think maybe you should feel sorry for them for loosing all their money, you can't help but wonder what sort of person would spend the type of money lost in scams before contacting the authorities about it.
It's like coming post searing and still taking someones offer and selling them black dye for 50g! (bad example). Hence, people who fall for the scams actually deserve it. |
glountz
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Originally Posted by lord_shar
I can never blame the victim, since I might find myself in a body bag some day despite all precautions.
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Blue Steel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Ohh.. big words in caps.. try working with people who fall for real life scams and you'll see that while you think maybe you should feel sorry for them for loosing all their money, you can't help but wonder what sort of person would spend the type of money lost in scams before contacting the authorities about it.
Hence, people who fall for the scams actually deserve it. |
No one deserves to be victimized. Ever. I find it morally reprehensible that someone would suggest that people deserve to be ripped off.
We all take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves, but dishonesty is a tax on society, and every item bought and sold costs more because of the dishonest in the world: the transaction costs, the legal fees, the investigations, the security gates in stores, and so forth could all be avoided if people were simply honest.
If you set your mind to stealing, you can figure out exactly how to catch people when they are most vulnerable. It should never, ever be done, and anyone advocating it or justifying it is encouraging evil in the world.
lord_shar
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Originally Posted by HDS
Possibly because of the "YOUR"...
Combine that with the fact that i am the only one who is defending some scammers who were 'forced' into it. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HDS
I menationed that because you quoted LBS and continued with "Absolutley agreed"
ab·so·lute·ly P Pronunciation Key (bs-ltl, bs-ltl) adv. Definitely and completely; unquestionably. |
lg5000
Yeah, real life con artists get arrested.. for fraud. The money lost to these fraudsters is never seen again by the people who lost it originally.
Btw, how am I preaching to a Lawyer by pointing out Mr. I-cant-read should have known that one well in advance and had someone who can read with him? Come on.. the amount of money that example had in it means that anyone with common sense is going to have at least one other person with them.. unless.. they were doing something illegal, in which case, they deserve to be scammed.
Btw, nice to see you're defending Blue Steel with such passion
Edit: I posted before seeing Blue Steel's reply.
Ok, I mainly have knowledge of your average person falling for scams, not high-end businesses. But as you said, there are safty features in place to avoid being scammed.
And while I already stated that I don't endorse scams, I'm sorry, but if you're involved in something illegal or borderlining illegal, I can't feel sorry for you. Nor can I feel sorry for you when you can't spend the extra 30secs looking at what was offered in a gw trade window.
Btw, how am I preaching to a Lawyer by pointing out Mr. I-cant-read should have known that one well in advance and had someone who can read with him? Come on.. the amount of money that example had in it means that anyone with common sense is going to have at least one other person with them.. unless.. they were doing something illegal, in which case, they deserve to be scammed.
Btw, nice to see you're defending Blue Steel with such passion
Edit: I posted before seeing Blue Steel's reply.
Ok, I mainly have knowledge of your average person falling for scams, not high-end businesses. But as you said, there are safty features in place to avoid being scammed.
And while I already stated that I don't endorse scams, I'm sorry, but if you're involved in something illegal or borderlining illegal, I can't feel sorry for you. Nor can I feel sorry for you when you can't spend the extra 30secs looking at what was offered in a gw trade window.
{IceFire}
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga
Ouch. Are you the guy who tried to buy a ton of ectos, ended up getting mursatt tokens instead, and then formed a team to journey to get fissure only to find out at the end that you didn't have ectos but in fact you were scammed? Thought I read that somewhere.
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no. im not that dumb.
it was an extremely well-thought-out and executed scam. i hate scammers.
lord_shar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Yeah, real life con artists get arrested.. for fraud. The money lost to these fraudsters is never seen again by the people who lost it originally.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Btw, how am I preaching to a Lawyer by pointing out Mr. I-cant-read should have known that one well in advance and had someone who can read with him? Come on.. the amount of money that example had in it means that anyone with common sense is going to have at least one other person with them.. unless.. they were doing something illegal, in which case, they deserve to be scammed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Btw, nice to see you're defending Blue Steel with such passion
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lg5000
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lord_shar
Sorry, but I couldn't comprehend what you were trying to communicate above.
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What I meant to say though, was that if you're involved in a illegal transaction or semi-illgal transaction why would anyone feel sorry for you when you get scamed? (obviously, not talking about gw here)
And I love how things typed out never come across as nicely as when spoken, I wasn't picking on you for defending Blue Steel
Tijger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue Steel
No one deserves to be victimized. Ever. I find it morally reprehensible that someone would suggest that people deserve to be ripped off.
We all take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves, but dishonesty is a tax on society, and every item bought and sold costs more because of the dishonest in the world: the transaction costs, the legal fees, the investigations, the security gates in stores, and so forth could all be avoided if people were simply honest. If you set your mind to stealing, you can figure out exactly how to catch people when they are most vulnerable. It should never, ever be done, and anyone advocating it or justifying it is encouraging evil in the world. |
When my wife asked a scammer (the gp instead of plat type scam) why they did it the answer was "because you're all f*cking stupid", her smartass reply was, ofcourse, "Smarter than you obviously since I didnt fall for it".
As I've said before we are all responsible for our own trades and for double checking amounts and items but not doing so is NOT an excuse nor is it acceptable to take advantage when people do not do this.
If you scam other players you clearly do not belong in the game and should be removed.
AFAIK Anet should ban people who do such things on a regular basis and I know from experience that they rarely just try their scams on only one person.
Lord Iowerth
Well, legal standpoints aside ... there are basically two types of scammers as far as I am concerned:
1) The people that scam, and are too dense to realize that what they are doing is wrong and hurts other people. These are the only scammers I feel any remote sense of pity for. I mean, I'm a very nice and generous person ... chances are if you're rough-up for money, and you ask me nicely for my help: i'm more than happy to. I'm thinking some of these folks may genuinely at a mental disatvantage, and just not know any better. Truly if one would take the time to explain some things to them, they might stand a chance of becoming a decent, honest player one day ... That brings us to ..
2) The people that scam, know it's wrong, and don't give a crap that it hurts other people. These are the ones that deserve no pity whatsoever, and in fact are in need of a good smiting from whatever diety they believe in (oh, and dieties please contact me if you are busy elsewhere, i'd be happy to hand out a few smitings ) I'm sure that these #2 scammers get a great sense of enjoyment at another's misfortune/good-nature/whatever else you'd like to attribute the facilitation of being scammed to ... apart from where the blame really lies: in the scammer himself/herself.
I suppose the real problem would be to differentiate between the two.
To whoever first suggested GM's in this post: /signed. GM's can't be everywhere, all the time, but they can at least be a bastion of hope to the game community when they take, hopefully quite visible, action against a violator.
1) The people that scam, and are too dense to realize that what they are doing is wrong and hurts other people. These are the only scammers I feel any remote sense of pity for. I mean, I'm a very nice and generous person ... chances are if you're rough-up for money, and you ask me nicely for my help: i'm more than happy to. I'm thinking some of these folks may genuinely at a mental disatvantage, and just not know any better. Truly if one would take the time to explain some things to them, they might stand a chance of becoming a decent, honest player one day ... That brings us to ..
2) The people that scam, know it's wrong, and don't give a crap that it hurts other people. These are the ones that deserve no pity whatsoever, and in fact are in need of a good smiting from whatever diety they believe in (oh, and dieties please contact me if you are busy elsewhere, i'd be happy to hand out a few smitings
) I'm sure that these #2 scammers get a great sense of enjoyment at another's misfortune/good-nature/whatever else you'd like to attribute the facilitation of being scammed to ... apart from where the blame really lies: in the scammer himself/herself.I suppose the real problem would be to differentiate between the two.
To whoever first suggested GM's in this post: /signed. GM's can't be everywhere, all the time, but they can at least be a bastion of hope to the game community when they take, hopefully quite visible, action against a violator.
lord_shar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lg5000
Right... I need coffee... I had mis-read both your coment to my quote and the original bit I quoted.
What I meant to say though, was that if you're involved in a illegal transaction or semi-illgal transaction why would anyone feel sorry for you when you get scamed? (obviously, not talking about gw here) And I love how things typed out never come across as nicely as when spoken, I wasn't picking on you for defending Blue Steel |
I will say this: Honesty is rewarded in real life. Some of the highest paying positions out there require a squeaky clean record, good credit standing, and so forth. If you ever knowingly participate in any activity that ruins the above, you may have just removed yourself from an easy 6 figure salary range lifetime career.
Inureface
Scamming is scamming, even if the guy who got scammed is stupid and didn't pay attention, the scammer is still at fault because he exploited your diverted attention or whatever. There is no justifying scamming just because you didn't pay attention. I don't think you'd exploit a bug then bitch to anet how its their fault for not noticing before you did and you had every right to abuse it.
Diablo???
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Originally Posted by HDS
For some reason i cant send you pms... oh well, open letter i suppose:
Look, i'm not insulting your inteligence, or at least i am not trying to, all i am saying is, instead of complaining about how there are scammers people shoudl look at the root of the problem. It's liek with gangs: "Gangs are full of morons who should be shot" etc... However none of thsoe people actually look as to why people join gangs, same goes for scammers, ban them ban them ban them, but everybody shuld take a moment and try to look at what is causing the scammers to exist. And combat that instead of the scammers. To providee a fair analogy: It's like seeing a fire and poining the extinguisher at the top of the flames, nothign happens. You need to find the source. + As i said, i really find most of the "scams" as the 'victims' fault, lack of attention. Without said lack of atention most scams wouldnt happen. And in response to your above post: Yes, that is a textbook example of a scam if he knew that 45,000 gold was meant and not 45 gold, however, how will you manage to prove this if the other/seller did not specify 45 plat or 45,000 gold? |
There are many forms of crime, some are blatantly unjustifiable, others fall in the grey zone and are difficult to identify. But they are crimes nonetheless, because their justifications are based solely on emotions, and emotions alone does not justify ones' action. Law is reasoning without passion.
A scammer may have felt compelled to steal in order to keep up with the wealth of the others, but that does not answer to logic:
Did he lie to another player? Yes
is lying to another player wrong? Yes
thus the conclusion is reached. The law is black and white on this matter, there is no grey zone. What seems fair to you man not seem fair to others. Their hands was not guided by another, they alone decided to do what was wrong.
In the end the "law" is for Arena.net to decide, and they shall deliver rightful retributions. That does not mean victims should take their loss and ignore the disturbance.
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You are right that the source is always an issue, but it is not one that is left unchecked, there are many discussions and efforts on Anet's part to reduce this "source" you speak of. It is not unknown, but how well they're reducing the problem is another thing...
Destruction Exile
In every RPG or MMORPG game, everyone have been scammed before. Is nothing new. You just gotta keep your eyes open and dont get scam. Reporting scammers doesn't really do anyhting for you. because you dont even know the person and if thye get banned, who cares?? you still got scammed.
brian3
scammers a just s.o.bs and should be banned iv hade 3 2day for my green weapons, i think there just sad that they cant make mony to just buy them like the honest people of guildwars
Diablo???
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Originally Posted by Destruction Exile
In every RPG or MMORPG game, everyone have been scammed before. Is nothing new. You just gotta keep your eyes open and dont get scam. Reporting scammers doesn't really do anyhting for you. because you dont even know the person and if thye get banned, who cares?? you still got scammed.
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A report however is not an effort to reclaim what was taken from you, but to prevent the scammer from continuing their ploy.
allience
personally i don't think scaming is a big issue in guild wars. i mean ppl are responsible to inform themselves on prices of items. ppl that fall for the 100gold instead of 100k gold trades just didn't pay any attention whatsoever. those who let other ppl on their accnt are just silly. getting scamed by a runner? dunno man, u live and learn.
now a real scam is when some1 purposley tries to hack ur accnt by keyloggers or some other shit. but even in this case, it's the victim's fault for downloading hacks/bots/unauthorized stuff in the first place. i don't think Anet should pay attention to small petty scamers. i'm happy as long as they keep the game free of hacks and fix the bugs.
as sum1 used to say, 'if u can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen'. ppl need to stop complaining when they exploit bugs and it's their own fault they don't pay attention in trades.
now a real scam is when some1 purposley tries to hack ur accnt by keyloggers or some other shit. but even in this case, it's the victim's fault for downloading hacks/bots/unauthorized stuff in the first place. i don't think Anet should pay attention to small petty scamers. i'm happy as long as they keep the game free of hacks and fix the bugs.
as sum1 used to say, 'if u can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen'. ppl need to stop complaining when they exploit bugs and it's their own fault they don't pay attention in trades.
Maxiemonster
It's kinda lame that you can actually earn alot of money on scamming. You buy something for 40g because the one you're buying from thought it was 40K still earns you 39K 960g, and yes, people fall for this scam very easily. Even though people getting scammed are rather stupid, scamming is a lame thing, so don't start with it. Making use of common mistakes isn't a good thing, you might think "Woohoo! Another way to make money!", but you might've made a 10 year old boy cry because he was just a bit to hasty with buying your items. If you scam, think of that 10 year old boy every time, if you still continue to scam, hope it'll make you feel bad, since it should.
Getting scammed - Stupid.
Scamming - Heartless and selfish.
Getting scammed - Stupid.
Scamming - Heartless and selfish.
Diablo???
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Originally Posted by HDS
Combine that with the fact that i am the only one who is defending some scammers who were 'forced' into it.
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