Which of these builds would be better?
Attributes (both the same)
Blood Magic 9
Death Magic 16
Soul Reaping 10
Healing 7
Vampiric Gaze
Rotting Flesh
Bone Fiend's
Bone Horror's
Verata's Sacrifice
Heal Area
Rebirth
Offering of Blood
OR
Awaken the Blood
Bone Fiend's
Bone Horror's
Blood of the Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Heal Area
Rebirth
Offering of Blood
Did my first succesfull Tombs run the other day, and was quite fun. I did get a comment saying I had to work on my build a bit, but not sure what was meant, as it was quite succesfull. Anyway - any advice? Oh and in case your wondering why I'm bringing Rotting Flesh in the first build - I played through the entire game as a Blood Necro pretty much, and this skill is VERY effective, did help in tombs with worms, etc. - or should I not worry about dealing any additional damage or degen?
Thanks!
**Changed Verata's Aura to Sacrifice, since that's what I meant anyway...
High Level MM Build - Advice
MasterThrawn
PrincessKyra
IMO: A good MM in tombs has at least 10-15 horrors/fiends up all the time. This creates 2 walls of defense for your team while dealing steady damage.
1. To keep a steady supply of horrors/fiends, you need to constantly make horrors & fiends during a battle because Lvl 18 horrors/fiends still die fast. If you're spending your energy on blood skills during the battle, corpses probably aren't being used efficiently.
2. To keep a large number of horrors/fiends alive while traveling to the next mob area, heal area is not sufficient. I consider any primary MM without Blood of the Master AND Verata's Sacrifice to be very ineffective.
3. A good MM should not die often. If the MM dies, it's usually because defenses were depleted after minions died. Verata's Aura is a waste of a skill slot in Tombs.
4. If you want to deal damage other than that of your minions, bring Spiteful Spirit and Suffering. These skills do not need to be spammed often, saving your energy for raising horrors and fiends.
5. It makes more sense for an Orders necro to bring Blood Ritual [edit]. When I'm MM for Tombs, I use the following:
Animate Fiends
Animate Horrors
Blood of the Master (large heal for minions)
Verata's Sacrifice (counter minion degen)
Rebirth
Spiteful Spirit (direct damage to entire mobs)
Suffering (degen entire mobs)
Enfeebling Blood (weaken mobs so minions last longer)
16 death, 10 soul, 10 curses
1. To keep a steady supply of horrors/fiends, you need to constantly make horrors & fiends during a battle because Lvl 18 horrors/fiends still die fast. If you're spending your energy on blood skills during the battle, corpses probably aren't being used efficiently.
2. To keep a large number of horrors/fiends alive while traveling to the next mob area, heal area is not sufficient. I consider any primary MM without Blood of the Master AND Verata's Sacrifice to be very ineffective.
3. A good MM should not die often. If the MM dies, it's usually because defenses were depleted after minions died. Verata's Aura is a waste of a skill slot in Tombs.
4. If you want to deal damage other than that of your minions, bring Spiteful Spirit and Suffering. These skills do not need to be spammed often, saving your energy for raising horrors and fiends.
5. It makes more sense for an Orders necro to bring Blood Ritual [edit]. When I'm MM for Tombs, I use the following:
Animate Fiends
Animate Horrors
Blood of the Master (large heal for minions)
Verata's Sacrifice (counter minion degen)
Rebirth
Spiteful Spirit (direct damage to entire mobs)
Suffering (degen entire mobs)
Enfeebling Blood (weaken mobs so minions last longer)
16 death, 10 soul, 10 curses
Undead Shadowknight
I agree with PrincessKyra, on most of it atleast. I bring majority of what was said with the exception of Suffering and Enfeebling Blood (but may have to try those out).
But I bring Heal Area and Death Nova instead of Suffering and Enfeebling Blood. Heal Area is just used for time between BotM and VS.
The main time I use SS is when we travel from mob to mob and at beginning of levels. I use Death Nova just to watch bombs blow up.
But I bring Heal Area and Death Nova instead of Suffering and Enfeebling Blood. Heal Area is just used for time between BotM and VS.
The main time I use SS is when we travel from mob to mob and at beginning of levels. I use Death Nova just to watch bombs blow up.
MasterThrawn
Hmm - Enfeebling Blood - did not think of that one as being an MM skill, but that sounds interesting - now I would like to bring SS, but everyone was telling me Offering of Blood is what all the "good" MM's bring, in case they need energy... I'll have to try out some of these variations - oh and I meant Verata's Sacrifice in my build (always get those mixed up). Thanks for the tips!
MasterThrawn
Hmm - Enfeebling Blood - did not think of that one as being an MM skill, but that sounds interesting - now I would like to bring SS, but everyone was telling me Offering of Blood is what all the "good" MM's bring, in case they need energy... I'll have to try out some of these variations - oh and I meant Verata's Sacrifice in my build (always get those mixed up). Thanks for the tips!
Yobz
I agree with using verata's sac + blood of master for healing.
First of all energy management -
The elite skill Offering of Blood allows you to regain energy at the cost of some health. However this required points to be put into Blood Magic, and may leave you spred too thin.
N/E can use Glyph of Lesser Energy to reduce cost of spells by 15 energy. The elite Glyph of Energy reduces energy cost by 20 (15 sec recharge).
The more points you can put into soul reaping the better.
I find that using curses often leaves me with not enough energy to instantly raise a fiend. I vary this according to party and mission type.
Extra damage -
Taking Spiteful Spirit means you cannot use Offering of Blood as they are both elite. Mark of Pain can substitute if you choose this route.
Putting points into Curses and Blood may mean your points are spread too thin, and may be better not to use Offering of Blood for this purpose.
Weaken armor reduces enemies armor against physical attacks
Protecting your army -
Shadow of fear slows down the number of attacks.
Enfeebling blood - as discussed previously.
Fast Casting -
N/Me can use echo to quickly raise an army assuming you have enough energy. Items such as Morgriffs Scepter offer half skill recharge and casting.
Remember also items such as the Rockmolder, only the damage is linked to another profession, you will still get the skill recharge bonus.
Bloodstained boots to reduce casting time of spells targetting corpses.
First of all energy management -
The elite skill Offering of Blood allows you to regain energy at the cost of some health. However this required points to be put into Blood Magic, and may leave you spred too thin.
N/E can use Glyph of Lesser Energy to reduce cost of spells by 15 energy. The elite Glyph of Energy reduces energy cost by 20 (15 sec recharge).
The more points you can put into soul reaping the better.
I find that using curses often leaves me with not enough energy to instantly raise a fiend. I vary this according to party and mission type.
Extra damage -
Taking Spiteful Spirit means you cannot use Offering of Blood as they are both elite. Mark of Pain can substitute if you choose this route.
Putting points into Curses and Blood may mean your points are spread too thin, and may be better not to use Offering of Blood for this purpose.
Weaken armor reduces enemies armor against physical attacks
Protecting your army -
Shadow of fear slows down the number of attacks.
Enfeebling blood - as discussed previously.
Fast Casting -
N/Me can use echo to quickly raise an army assuming you have enough energy. Items such as Morgriffs Scepter offer half skill recharge and casting.
Remember also items such as the Rockmolder, only the damage is linked to another profession, you will still get the skill recharge bonus.
Bloodstained boots to reduce casting time of spells targetting corpses.
Undead Shadowknight
mark of pain will produce a scatter. I would NOT recommend bringing that.
Carinae
How did you get 10 in soul reaping? Are you running a Major and a Superior?
If you want to do this right, you MUST run N/Mo or N/R. Nothing else can run anything close in the later stages of the game.
You are there to run Death/Minions, not Curses/Hexes. Believe me, minions are a full time job. A common mistake is trying to do too much and doing nothing well. If your team needs Curses and MM, then take two necros.
And for the eight-hundredth time, Bloodstained Boots don't work! (currently)
The following build can easily reach 30-40 minions and I have peaked about double (75+) that in actual combat. Try this out:
Blood: 9
Death: 16
Soul: 9
Healing: 7
Vampiric Gaze
Offering of Blood
Horrors
Fiends
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Heal Area
Vengeance!
If you want to do this right, you MUST run N/Mo or N/R. Nothing else can run anything close in the later stages of the game.
You are there to run Death/Minions, not Curses/Hexes. Believe me, minions are a full time job. A common mistake is trying to do too much and doing nothing well. If your team needs Curses and MM, then take two necros.
And for the eight-hundredth time, Bloodstained Boots don't work! (currently)
The following build can easily reach 30-40 minions and I have peaked about double (75+) that in actual combat. Try this out:
Blood: 9
Death: 16
Soul: 9
Healing: 7
Vampiric Gaze
Offering of Blood
Horrors
Fiends
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Heal Area
Vengeance!
Jessyi
Man, I'm beginning to loathe Minion Masters that use N/Mo...it seems to send the message to everyone else in the world that N/Mo is the only MM format. Frankly, I think it sucks. Here's what I use in my N/E build:
Slot 1: Animate Horror
Slot 2: Animate Fiend
Slot 3: Blood of the Master
Slot 4: Verata Sacrifice
Slot 5: Glyph of Renewal
Slot 6: Death Nova
Slot 7: Blood Ritual
Slot 8: Res sig (bring it or die)
My attributes are:
Death: 16 (sup rune + scar patch)
Soul Reaping: 13 (with minor rune)
Blood Magic: 4 (with minor rune)
This is a no BS build that doesn't sacrifice points in Death Magic or Soul Reaping to put points in healing prayers to power Heal Area - a sacrifice I consider too great. If I want heal area, that means I either have weaker minions (very bad) or less energy returned through Soul Reaping, causing me to be unable to cast minions when the bodies are available (also very bad). Blood ritual still gives 10 seconds at level 4. In a place like the UW in the b/p teams, you can kiss your minions goodbye anyways - heal area won't help them any more than BotM can. The best way to heal them is to use Glyph of Renewal with Verata's sacrifice - might help them take another hit or two. The one thing I hate about Heal Area more than anything else is that if you get a chance to safely get up beside a group of minions beating up say, a boss for example, and they're dying, you can't heal them with heal area without healing the boss as well. Use BotM - if your monk(s) can't heal your sacrificing, you're all boned (no pun intended) anyways.
-Jessyi
Slot 1: Animate Horror
Slot 2: Animate Fiend
Slot 3: Blood of the Master
Slot 4: Verata Sacrifice
Slot 5: Glyph of Renewal
Slot 6: Death Nova
Slot 7: Blood Ritual
Slot 8: Res sig (bring it or die)
My attributes are:
Death: 16 (sup rune + scar patch)
Soul Reaping: 13 (with minor rune)
Blood Magic: 4 (with minor rune)
This is a no BS build that doesn't sacrifice points in Death Magic or Soul Reaping to put points in healing prayers to power Heal Area - a sacrifice I consider too great. If I want heal area, that means I either have weaker minions (very bad) or less energy returned through Soul Reaping, causing me to be unable to cast minions when the bodies are available (also very bad). Blood ritual still gives 10 seconds at level 4. In a place like the UW in the b/p teams, you can kiss your minions goodbye anyways - heal area won't help them any more than BotM can. The best way to heal them is to use Glyph of Renewal with Verata's sacrifice - might help them take another hit or two. The one thing I hate about Heal Area more than anything else is that if you get a chance to safely get up beside a group of minions beating up say, a boss for example, and they're dying, you can't heal them with heal area without healing the boss as well. Use BotM - if your monk(s) can't heal your sacrificing, you're all boned (no pun intended) anyways.
-Jessyi
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessyi
Quote: Originally Posted by Jessyi This is a no BS build that doesn't sacrifice points in Death Magic or Soul Reaping to put points in healing prayers to power Heal Area - a sacrifice I consider too great. This is actually a Minion Bomber build, not a true Minion Master build. You are counting on them dying quickly, hence Death Nova. It's not even that good of a MB build because you don't have ToD to kill on command.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jessyi If I want heal area, that means I either have weaker minions (very bad) or less energy returned through Soul Reaping, causing me to be unable to cast minions when the bodies are available (also very bad). Do you NOT see Offering of Blood? and nine points in SR? What do YOU do when you have cast out all your energy and you're waiting for one to die? Sit there and regen? You can't even kill one to gain energy, but without Heal Area I guess you won't have too wait long.
You are missing the point of HA. It lets you chain your minion *sacrifices* faster and longer. VS -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> OoB -> HA -> ....
It basically DOUBLES the power of BotM and self-heals you in the process. Win-Win!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessyi
Blood ritual still gives 10 seconds at level 4.
Blood Rit?? That's a bit wierd on any Death necro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessyi
Quote:
Quote:
Weapon switch is a must for any build with rebirth.|
Originally Posted by Jessyi
In a place like the UW in the b/p teams, you can kiss your minions goodbye anyways - heal area won't help them any more than BotM can.
Well, you're right here. No one can keep minions alive in the UW. That's why the MB build works there, you WANT them to die. I still don't understand why you took BR over ToD though.
Vampiric GazeQuote:
Look, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I've written dozens of posts about N/Mo alone and how it has strengths the other MMs don't have. N/E and N/Me are especially weak MMs if you are trying to maintain an army. Often I post empirical evidence for my case, and usually the response is: "Check it out, I combined Glyph of Renewal with Verata's Sacrifice. 100% VS FTW! Best MM Evar!"
All I can say is that N/E is the W/Mo of necromancers! That doesn't mean all N/E are noobs, but the vast majority of noob-necromancers are N/E. Precisely for the VS+GoR combo. All I can say is to keep an open mind, and try out some of the other secondaries. The reason N/Mo is so popular is not because it's a cookie cutter, it's because it is THAT strong. Quote:
Mine
Attribute Points Left: 1 Blood Magic: 9 Death Magic: 16 Soul Reaping: 10 Healing: 8 You run much the same point spread as I do but I've found that the trade off for a second superior rune in soul reaping...dropping your life to 380 with a superior vigor...is quite worth the extra few points in either healing, blood magic or soul reaping. Also lower life resultss in less damage from saccing skills and you have 3. I've found though experimentation and experience that healing > soul reaping > blood magic is the order. Healing because heal area is a multi function skill...recover saccing, heal on the run, help out monks...very powerful and it's marginally more usefull then either Offering of Blood which is mostly unessisary but makes for flexibility and speed or the energy gain from Soul Reaping till around a heal area of >110 or 9+ in healing. Quote: Rotting Flesh Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood OR Awaken the Blood Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Blood of the Master Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood Imo and it's just my opinion the most effective minnion master is the one that can get the fiend/horror up first, get most and keep them up the longest...all else is just a waste of a skill slot. I mean really disease on all enemies vs an extra 5 fiends doing from 5 to 26 damage every pop for the next 5 min? It's simple to see which is better once you give up trying to provide the minnions yourself. If this is a solo build that's a different story but if it's team build stop trying to kill stuff, focus on your specilization...minnnions(the general term use not the skill) So first set I would say is a waste while your second set is very near mine. Really the last two skill slots are completely interchangeable but going with my paragraph above I've found this very useful. Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Blood of the Master Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood Dark Bond/Infuse condition(depending on spike dmg vs condition dmg) You may ask how the last skill goes with my statment of effiecency but if you die with 50 minnions there's a problem..and I only have 380 life but I rarely die...usually because I'm watching tv, chatting and not watching the mob grouping and get to close to a mez. Also Infuse Condition negates some of the problems with Verata's Sacrifice. Gear: While energy isn't a real cocern a MM should almost always be kiting away from danger(as they are still highly useful even while running) so I say choose the armor you like the look of most. Bortak's Bone Cesta...unargueable the best MM offhand...if you are serious about MMing get it. Instead of Bortak's Claw however I suggest a +3 - 5 energy 10% all halves casting time wand as I've found better results in increased casting time with this. If anyone has any counter experimentation I'd appreciate some feedback on this as it's confsuing. I've had no skill charge summoning with my combo whiel I've yet to see one with Bortak's Claw and I tested it for over 20 min in the PvP couryard on dummies. Either way fastcasting > recharge. With the cost and the life sac and the kiting and the waiting for a body by the time you are ready to cast the next summoning spell fiend/horrors are almost always ready. -energy weapon/offhand combo for rebirth I like koles and that blue collector with absorption and +armor vs physical for dire kitting situations Quote:
Minnion LVL >>>>> Verata's Sac >>>>>> Heal Area > Blood otM
Quote: Rebirth is good if you've LOST the battle and need to regroup. And by definition, if the MM is still alive, the battle's not lost. |
Quote:
The one thing I hate about Heal Area more than anything else is that if you get a chance to safely get up beside a group of minions beating up say, a boss for example, and they're dying, you can't heal them with heal area without healing the boss as well. Use BotM - if your monk(s) can't heal your sacrificing, you're all boned (no pun intended) anyways.
-Jessyi Know the range of HA...I do this all the time without healing the enemy and sometimes I heal the enemy anyway...110 life vs 80+ minnions...yea
however being able to heal YOURSELF is so much more powerful then anything...the order of MM once he has an army up is this
Self Preservation > Army Preservation > Army Raising > Helping Party
With dark bond up and Heal Area I can go without saccrificing anything skill points wise using two superior runes and still not die. You talk about the over use of the idea of Nec/Mo but never think past the over use of the idea of only one superior rune...
It's just that when I'm trying to share my experiences and knowledge and the very next post is "She's craaaazy, N/E MMs rock" I want to strangle someone. And unfortunately, my only options are:
1) Do nothing, and let mis-information spread.
2) Come back with overwhelming examples and illustrations.
You can run anything you want to run. Run minions as W/N if you want! If it works for you great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessyi
It's strictly for that 3rd stage of decay you mentioned, and despite whatever hand-eye dexterity issues the rest of the community might have, I can pinpoint a dying minion and DN it with ease. I'd like to think that that kind of offense will offset any self-sufficiency I might sacrifice.
Hey, if you can teach other people how to use DN effectively you could change the MM metagame! It's a good spell, but not easy to apply.-Jessyi Know the range of HA...I do this all the time without healing the enemy and sometimes I heal the enemy anyway...110 life vs 80+ minnions...yea
however being able to heal YOURSELF is so much more powerful then anything...the order of MM once he has an army up is this
Self Preservation > Army Preservation > Army Raising > Helping Party
With dark bond up and Heal Area I can go without saccrificing anything skill points wise using two superior runes and still not die. You talk about the over use of the idea of Nec/Mo but never think past the over use of the idea of only one superior rune...
Quote:
I confess it was a bit of frustration on my part. It wasn't directed at you per se, but it probably was thrown in your general direction. It was nothing personal, and I really don't want people to 'regret ever having posted.' Sorry for making you feel that way.|
Originally Posted by Jessyi
Use BotM - if your monk(s) can't heal your sacrificing, you're all boned (no pun intended) anyways.
-Jessyi The monks have better things to do then worry about the MM getting spiked/degened to death. Especially true in Grenith's Footprint and TotPK
Manic Smile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samueldg
BOTM is to heal your minions when theyre grouped...
heal area is to make you self sufficent..its a big heal for when your clear of monsters and sacing life.. QFT...
Wicked Shadow
I much prefer heal area over BoTM. Same recharge, cast time, energy cost, and it heals more per attribute point without a health loss. I have my stats spread 16 death, 10 healing prayers, and 9 soul reaping (only one superior rune) and heal area still heals more. True, heal area heals enemies, but if you're on the front lines you're having problems anyway. Trying to keep horrors alive by hurting yourself will make you a more attractive target. I basically use verata's sacrifice constantly between raising minions and only use heal area between battles. I even tested the radius on the two spells. They're almost exactly the same, although BoTM has a slightly larger radius.
I'm still experimenting, but here's my current build: Deathly Chill (just to do some damage to start things out) Healing Breeze Heal Area Verata's Sacrifice Animate Bone Fiend Animate Bone Horror Rebirth currently uncertain Samueldg
Im a fan of simplicity for purpose so heres my build for MM in Topk and oro farming
n/mo 16 death sup rune 11 soulreap 8 healing Fiends ( in oro)OR Minions ( in TOPK) ( the reason for minions is simple 25 ene for a 22 return.. making minions cost me 3 ene to cast.. while theyre dieing and blocking rangers are killing and provideing me with MORE bodies my job is to block and protect via having a mass of minions.. killing is the business of the rangers with orders on them in Oro farming my job is to kill so I take ranged killers and spam as many as I can... if on the last guy Ive got 15 ene I make a horror til we get to the next batch of monsters) Horror veritas sac bOTM heal area ( for myself mainly, as monk I hate having to heal up every sac and sure dont enjoy following behind a MM who is doing his job by sacing and keeping his minions up because it risks the rest of the team whos moved ahead in preparation for the next group, in TOPK this is a huge risk) now here is where your free to do whatever.. for TOPK deathly swarm because its something to do til something dies.. grenths balance.. this has saved my butt MANY times from a grasp and really I dont need OOB for ene Ive got soul reaping and plenty of things dieing res SIG this has saved parties.. your monk gets spiked by every caster on earth all at once.. poof he is back up and not suffering too bad and rebirth IMO in an uncertain environment like TOPK everyone should have rebirth.. all too often someoen does something without thinking and the whole party is on the run and dieing... this can decide success or failure... Oro farming it doesnt really matter what all I bring so long as the first four are covered.. I dont need to worry about ressing anyone cause all attacks are on the war with the gear... I can bring swarm, wells, whatever... so long as im making minions constantly the rest is play time.. point being you can go with ONLY minons and minion support because thats all you should be using.. personally Ill take a r/mo and a nec/mo over all else in topk. simply due to rebirth.. its a long area and nothing to achieve from start til your at the end.. its not worth it to me to spend 40 minutes gettin to the last stage and taking out the last 3 groups before that final bridge and have to start over because the party was mostly some other secondary.. with the plethora of new people joining on the BOTM for tombs Id rather be safe than sorry.. pm me if your up for a run I love runnin this and do easily 3-5 runs a day... >holly ween< my my cheapo collectors armor
MasterThrawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samueldg
pm me if your up for a run I love runnin this and do easily 3-5 runs a day... I just might do that - I'm just starting to get into these runs, and they're quite fun. I'll look for ya soon...
MasterThrawn
Wow - this has really turned into an awesome thread for MM's - lots of good advice here, and I have learned a lot from this. Tried some of these ideas out, and still have some more experimenting to do. Thanks for all the great tips
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Smile
While energy isn't a real cocern a MM should almost always be kiting away from danger(as they are still highly useful even while running) so I say choose the armor you like the look of most.
I'd say you want to run Tormentors or Necrotic armor. Generally speaking, it's a Bad Thing™ when MMs die. Wear the strongest armor you can.
beanerman_99
I have done ToPK a few times with my necro ele and really had no major problems so I am not here to get into the second profession debate,but I did have a few questions.
My first trip in I took fiends instead of horrors and still did ok but didn't have that melee wall set up. I have since dropped them and take horrors. I guess my main question is how do I target my minions quickly in order to cast death nova on them for added dmg? I was holding down Alt. but that doesnt seem to highlight my minions. Trying to use the mouse pointer is hard as heck because the minions move around so much. What part of selecting the minions am I missing? thanks! PS after 3 successful runs I have only gotten 1 green, Illyana's staff. I tend to think that if each boss drops 3 greens and that totals of 9 greens, then each person should get at least 1 green with the left over green going to random person. 
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanerman_99
I guess my main question is how do I target my minions quickly in order to cast death nova on them for added dmg? I was holding down Alt. but that doesnt seem to highlight my minions. Trying to use the mouse pointer is hard as heck because the minions move around so much. What part of selecting the minions am I missing?
You can't. That's precisely the problem with the Minion Bomber builds. You can't get DN on the minion that needs it. It gets exponentially more difficult when you are trying to raise an army. Thats why many (most) MM's don't run DN.
It's purely an interface issue.
wsmcasey
Yea, I tried Death Nova with MM and its pretty hard. The only successful way I found what to cast it on low level minions just before sending then in to battle since they more than likely with die first. never cast on fiends since the are ranged attacks. That only leaves a 30 second window for at least a couple of minions to die in battle. Its still a lotta work though if you have to cast DN on all your minions hoping that one of them will die first.
To bad you can't "Ctrl + right click and highlight all your minions and cast Death Nova on all of them at once, that would be sweet. 
beanerman_99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
You can't. That's precisely the problem with the Minion Bomber builds. You can't get DN on the minion that needs it. It gets exponentially more difficult when you are trying to raise an army. Thats why many (most) MM's don't run DN.
It's purely an interface issue. Well that stinks. I thought I mught be missing something. What I hate is when others razz me for not casting D nova. Now I dont feel so bad about not using it.
Aurorae
As a minion mistress, I prefer being a secondary monk. A lot of reasons for it have been mentioned in previous posts, and I fully agree with those. Heal area helps keep the minion master self-sufficient. It's easier to do your job, to raise minions when you don't have to depend on the monks to heal you.
This doesn't necessarily mean that I spam the hell out of HA whenever I get the chance. I rarely use it on my minions... the times it does happen is when their health degeneration is so massive that I have no other choice but to heal them with everything that I can. I farm Tombs and SF with my build and I'm known (within my guild) to maintain between 10-30 minions on my own. It varies, of course. I don't have offering of blood, nor do I use any curses skills. Frankly, I don't have any other skills but the crucial death ones. And rebirth. Then there's my empty slot, one which is used for any skill that I desire. Usually, that's blood ritual, because it's helpful. Sometimes Spinal Shivers if I'm feeling bold. xD I've tried most MM builds and I find the N/Mo to be the most efficient. As well as the most rewarding.
Jessyi
Quote:
Check it out, I combined Glyph of Renewal with Verata's Sacrifice. 100% VS FTW! Best MM Evar!"
Heh, is that supposed to be me? |
Now I regret ever having posted. At least I *thought* of Glyph of Renewal and Ver Sac. I admit I didn't do the math, and if I didn't care I shouldn't have posted. Largely I did just because I was pissed about getting thrown out of Tombs groups for being N/E. I don't even use MM that much. Really, it seems like the only two parts of my build you don't like are GoR and Blood Ritual, maybe Death Nova. I'll defend Blood Ritual because I don't see any harm in carrying it when I'm 3 feet away from a monk who could use the energy anyways. For sure I'll defend Death Nova. I don't carry ToD because I don't run a real Minion Bomber build. It's strictly for that 3rd stage of decay you mentioned, and despite whatever hand-eye dexterity issues the rest of the community might have, I can pinpoint a dying minion and DN it with ease. I'd like to think that that kind of offense will offset any self-sufficiency I might sacrifice. Why the sacrifice at all? Why justify it? No good reason - merely that as a monk myself I've never had a problem dealing with Necro sacrificing, often because (and get this, it's crazy) I'll work WITH the Necro by bringing Heal Area myself! (zOMFg wut?). I won't argue with your build information Carinae - it IS clearly superior, though I still believe with just the tinyest bit of inter-group communication you can make a build better by depending a little on the resources of the other players. Self-sufficiency is a nice idea, but it pales in comparison to a little teamwork. -Jessyi kaldak
some more experimentation on my part and a few things i'd like to add.
i still dont see the justification in putting 10 points or so in healing just for heal area. there are too many times when tossing in a little blood or curses can be handy. i'd still rather rely on life transfer for my self healing. honestly, even if the monk ignored me entirely, my saccing is usually covered by natural health regen. i do find in hard to death nova my troops effectively in battle, but i've found it much more effective to death nova the group's pets or even fellow party members if there are a lack of corpses. much easier to see when one of them is about to die and quickly click their name on the list and cast. i gave lesser energy glyph a try and it actually does come in handy occationally. its hardly a neccesity, but it is nice to have, and perhaps enough to convince that i like N/E better. Samueldg
well the thing about healing is the points dont really matter as much since its a self heal with Heal area.
your basically figuring what your sac is from both veritas and botm... then heal area to remove it.. granted its nice after a battle when you have fresh minions and they took a beatin but didnt die.. you veritas> botm> heal area and your all back up to full health.. I try and keep soul reaping around 10-12... that way I never actually loose a great deal of ene.. ( 25 to cast minons 15 to cast horrors... when they die I loose maybe a total of 10 ene.. and have pips in ene regen to even that back more to around 5 depending on how long they last.. meteor shower does rip me a new one though..) so reasonable if you have a sup rune on and even a major soulreap without and health bonus from weap or offhand your gonna sac maybe a total of 90 health from veritas and botm.. a 7 healing will give you a strong enough heal area to remove the sac. I try to look at doing one thing very well.. Ive done the whole MM/SS nec with curses and death and in all cases something suffers for it so now I have a philosophy to be ONE primary and be damn good at it.. aka when I do Orders I keep 16 blood 10 soul reap and whatever in healing using pip regen to keep me from sacin to death and the monk can happily ignore me while they concerate on those in danger.. If im doing MM I want to BE death magic only and everything else is supporting that primary role. this kinda works with every pve build I do anymore. even monking Ill use max healing nothing but 5 ene heals and divine favor to get the biggest heals possible with boon healing making my heals cost 7 ene total BUT IM dropping anywhere from 300-500 heals( word of healing for the win!) in topk Ive found dwaynas kiss to be far superior to most everything else due to the constant hexes.. basically if you cover your job and do soley just what your needed for youll never have problem in doing it well. Death nova: the ONly way Ive found to effectively use death nova in pve is fiends and ONE horror.. the horror gets dn on him and rushes up to take a beating.. fiends are in the back gviing the beating when the horror gets gacked... then make another horror and peg him fast with nova again... even then its not very effective... on occasion in TOPK Ill nova a minon in a meteor storm.. IF I actually bring nova.. anymore its rare that I will.. the basic job of making minons keeps me rather busy as is.
Carinae
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Originally Posted by Jessyi
Now I regret ever having posted. At least I *thought* of Glyph of Renewal and Ver Sac. I admit I didn't do the math, and if I didn't care I shouldn't have posted. |
It's just that when I'm trying to share my experiences and knowledge and the very next post is "She's craaaazy, N/E MMs rock" I want to strangle someone. And unfortunately, my only options are:
1) Do nothing, and let mis-information spread.
2) Come back with overwhelming examples and illustrations.
You can run anything you want to run. Run minions as W/N if you want! If it works for you great.
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Agreed this is the most logical thing to do but really the trade off isn't noticable in PvE and I don't have the experience to give advice for PvP MMing like say MF. I run scars with bloodstained(FIX IT A.NET) for the added energy in the start up and I seriously never die unless I'm not paying attention(most often the case) or my group blows...|
Originally Posted by Jessyi
...though I still believe with just the tinyest bit of inter-group communication you can make a build better by depending a little on the resources of the other players.
No argument what-so-evar.
Don't be afraid to post. Carinae Ira Blinks
I use death nova all the time and see nothing hard about it.
Less chat, more micromanagement.
Manic Smile
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Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
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Originally Posted by Jessyi
I'll work WITH the Necro by bringing Heal Area myself! (zOMFg wut?).
-Jessyi I find having verata's on the monk is much more useful for the MM if the monk can still be useful the party. Sniper22
Usually get 20+ with this build
Fiend Horror V. Sac Grenths Balance Prot Spirit Dark Bond Mark of Pain Rebirth 16/17 Death 12+1+3 (+1 20%) 12 Soul Reaping 9+3 12 Curses 9+3 3 Prot 2 Blood 1+1 Undead Shadowknight
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Originally Posted by Sniper22
Usually get 20+ with this build
Fiend Horror V. Sac Grenths Balance Prot Spirit Dark Bond Mark of Pain Rebirth 16/17 Death 12+1+3 (+1 20%) 12 Soul Reaping 9+3 12 Curses 9+3 3 Prot 2 Blood 1+1 Just wondering how you would get 20+ minions up and running with only 1 minion healing spell. Also, don't you get scatter with MoP? |