High Level MM Build - Advice

A fact is something that is always unequivocally true under any circumstance, which is simply not the case here.


Still you want me to elaborate with numbers and reasoning for my opinion then? Fine...

Assuming a max life of 455hp (my Necro's at least), a N/E sacrifices around 200hp per minute (68hp every 21 secs) keeping VS up 100% of the time during downtime. This increses to around 342hp per minute during downtimes because of the added use of BotM when minion degen becomes more than the regen from VS, but does not extend to prolonged periods since little after minions reach this point, they are usually Nova'd and used to bomb, if not just let die for energy. This life-loss due to sacrifice is easily countered during downtime when natural life regen settles in before the next cast of VS, so self-healing there is not an issue.

Now, during mid-battle, the life-loss from VS remains the same or maybe less if one makes it a priority to summon fresh minions before dealing with VS. On the other hand, the sacrifice from BotM becomes more constant due to mid-battle healing of minions that are under attack. While healing from a Monk is necessary of course, an occasional Orison or Healing Breeze is enough to keep you going with no trouble, which in my opinion isn't much of a drain on a heal Monk. Besides, that's his job. Apart from this, in case you get targeted and risk dying, using ToD as an emergency button will bring you to full health at the cost of a minion, which brings me to my next point: energy management.

The loss of a minion to ToD in case of a high risk situation is offset by a N/E's energy management which allows for a more constant flow of summons, especially in situations of energy overflow when too many bodies drop at the same time. Glyph of Lesser Energy gives a net gain of 10 energy on summons, same as OoB at 9 Blood, except without the need to spread points or sacrifice 20% life (91hp in this case). Also, while Lesser Energy's recharge is double that of OoB, you'll be able to always use it, unlike OoB which is not wise to use that often anyway due to the sacrifice.

So, to summarize, in my opinion, N/E for MM is excellent due to superior energy management allowing for constant summoning even under the biggest pressure, and while the lack of solid self-heal requires the help of a Monk mid battle, you do have an emergency heal when at high risk, and are simply able to do you're job efficiently while the Monk does his (you provide and upkeep a large army for prolonged periods while he heals you if necessary).

Now, taking a look at N/Mo MM, the life sacrifice during downtime becomes greater if using VS/BotM (around 228hp per min, 114 every 30 secs), or less if just running VS (136hp per min, 68 every 30 secs). All the sacrifice is negated with the use Heal Area, which in turn is used to keep minion health up. So while hp is not an issue here either, energy is. The added spam of Heal Area to compensate for the time while VS is down adds up to roughly 60 energy per min during downtime. This is offset with natural energy regen, just as the N/E VS sac is offset by natural health regen. Yet this energy strain increses mid-battle when the use of HA becomes more constant in addition to the energy use of summoning. This is where OoB comes in.

At 9 Blood, which is how I use it, OoB gives a net gain of 10 energy. This energy can be used to summon, followed by a HA later to negate that sac (91hp loss), or can simply be used to just HA to heal minions. You could also OoB to be able to VS, in which case you need to follow later with two HA to negate the total sac (159hp loss). In any case, self-healing is, of course, never an issue, but it is a lot more energy intensive mid-battle making it tougher to summon constantly, even though in the downtime energy isn't much an issue either.

So, to summarize this, in my opinion, N/Mo is also excellent for a MM because of superior healing, since you will always be able to heal yourself, your minions, and even party members if necessary. Even if you strain for energy at times, having to pass on a summon or two, it's not much of an issue since you will constantly be healing everything, making the Monks job easier.

So to summarize all:
N/E is more energy efficient, allowing for faster summoning and less effort to keep minions alive, but needs Monk aid mid-battle if you need to sac more than usual, even though natural life regen is enough during downtime.

N/Mo is more life efficient, never needing heals from a Monk or an emergency button, but since the energy management adds to the life-loss, summoning is slower since it's combined with the constant use of the self-heal for yourself and minions.
And that is why I say that both are equally as efficient since, in my opinion, both N/Mo and N/E have their strengths, and weaknesses which can be overcome by simply playing either one smart. Still, like I've said before, all this becomes meaningless when, under practice, the numbers actually vary from player to player depending on their style and the circumstances of their location and group. And it is this variance that makes all that I've said, and all that you've said opinion, not fact.



Edit:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile Can I suggest we think about what we want a MM to do in Various Areas and in various builds then compare builds with purposes. Good suggestion. While I do not agree on saying one is better than another overall, I do agree some are best suited for particular purposes. For example: Tombs. The purpose here, imo, is to bodyblock as much as possible while doing as much damage as possible. The bodyblock musn't be compromised though since the main damage with B/P groups comes with Barrage obviously. That's why I mostly prefrer Horror/Minions over Horror/Fiends here. I also take Nova, but not ToD since enemies hit so hard that they will trigger the bombs themselves. Basically summon in large numbers, position to bodyblock, Nova Minions and Pets while puller lures, and unleash. When Grasps hit Minions a couple of times, the chain reactions kill very fast, while nothing gets through since there's always so much blocking. This isn't straight MM, but it's not an actual bomber build either. Also there's very little downtime, so VS every 30s and an occasional Heal Area is more than enough. The build looks like this: Death Nova Animate Bone Horror Animate Bone Minions Offering of Blood {E} Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Blood Ritual (to trade energy with Orders if necessary, and help out Monk) Rebirth *I've also run this as N/Me with Mantra of Resolve to avoid interrupts insted of Heal Area. Worked just as well, although it's risky to get 'interrupt spiked' while under Resolve cause since the spell doesn't stop, you can easily get killed by a bunch of Power Spikes and Cry of Frustrations dropping on you non-stop. Can also be run easily with pure Necro with ToD insted of Heal Area to use as an emergency button, or if you're simply too lazy to change secondary. Now, on the other hand, for something like SF farming, particularly Orozar, I prefer straight MM with N/E. Like I've said before, self-healing with a N/E isn't an issue during downtime, but since you're simply not getting targeted here, it's not an issue ever. So being able to summon at any time with no energy problems is a big plus here, especially since it's likely you're running with an SS that's making everything drop simulatniously. It's also a big plus to be able to keep up with the group during loooong downtimes by only doing Renew/VS insted of Heal Area every few steps. Only self-heal you need is ToD as an emergency button in case the tank 'drops the ball'. The build looks like this: Animate Bone Horror Animate Bone Fiend Glyph of Lesser Energy Glyph of Renewal {E} Verata's Sacrifice Blood of the Master Taste of Death Rez Sig Anyway, this is just what works for me, and what I find most fun. I've seen other people run different builds that are just as effective even if they aren't really my style. One of the most interesting I saw was a MM/degen build similar to the Virulence one I posted previously only with dropping the occasional Well of Suffering. Not something I would do, but the guy pulled it off great and killed. bobrath Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Texas Scouts of Tyria 26 Mar 2006 at 03:56 - 155 Actually for Oro, I prefer N/R because you can bring along winnowing to make your summons hit harder. Tombs its not needed cause a ranger will have a far better level with it. Since in Oro you're not going for the body blocking, to me its more important to up your damage then keep the head count up. Amor Corazon Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Mar 2006 Mo/W 26 Mar 2006 at 11:32 - 156 Yes there are the 4 main builds for a MM all of which is good depending on your style of play. But as we've seent this weekend in the Fpe the builds all of which using some of the faction skills will be able to be tweaked and refined, there is also that flesh golem {elite} which say a N/E may not be able to use if it takes the other elite and im not stating that you need that elite jsut chucking out an idea.