What do you expect from a Mesmer

I was reading the "what do you expect from a warrior" thread the other day, and it got me thinking. I know what many other mesmers expect, but I want to know what everyone thinks.

So...What do you expect from the mesmer in your party?

(I understand that the answers will differ based on PvP/PvE and the particular area in PvE or type of PvP, but lets hear them all)

EDIT:
No problems so far. I would like to add that if you think mesmers are teh ultimate pwnge, then say so, or if you think they are an abomination, again, say so. Just make sure to not flame, I really want to know what everyone thinks.

PvE: I expect the mesmer to either disrupt the heck out of the enemies or put a massive health degeneration on them.

PvP: Mesmers are more useful here in my opinion. There's nothing worse than being 5 seconds into the battle and have a mesmer drain every single point of energy off of you. So I expect mesmers to deny monks and other casters of their energy.

Nice topic.

Playing mesmer in pvp requires a huge amount of skill, at least the iterrupt part. Either you have 0 lag and near 0 reaction time or you have a great gift called anticipation, an also near 0 lag for that to work

But still in pvp and pve there are great opportunities for mesmers. It waries from annoying to total domination.

Having a mesmer character of my own, I know that interrupting isn't the only thing a mesmer can do. Also, a mesmer does not have infinite interrupts, and chaining interrupts can drain energy pretty quickly.

I expect a mesmer to make a battle easier, such as less damage output on the enemy side. If the monk isn't healing as much, or shouting for energy after 10 seconds, I know the mesmer is doing a good job.

Playing a mesmer myself, this is what I expect of other mesmers (should there be any) on my team:

1. NO Chaos Storm!
2. Backfire on ordinary caster mobs = Good. Backfire on bosses = Bad.
a. Wastrel's Worry/Interrupts/Shutdown on bosses = Good.
3. NOT Power Spiking a healing signet.
a. ... doing this repeatedly, instead of just as an accidental "twitch" reaction.
4. NOT casting Backfire on a Warrior.
a. ... be L20 and STILL casting Backfires on Warriors.
b. ... asking over teamchat why your Backfire on that Warrior didn't work.
5. Understand that Illusionary Weaponry is an enchantment, therefore removable.
a. ... not throw a fit after you'd been warned prior to getting shattered.
b. ... your armor is AL60. NOT AL70 or AL80.
6. Have a specific build, i.e. interrupts, e-denial, degen, etc. NOT a random grab-bag of spells. If you're not sure what to bring, ASK.

Briallan is a shut-down mesmer unless questing at random and then she throws in a few more 'fun' skills like Rotting Flesh to deal with non-casters.

Phantasm is still a great skill, esp. at high levels but definitely not all a mesmer can bring to the team. I like to know ahead of time if there's another mesmer on the team exactly what he/she uses so we can compliment each other's skills rather than constantly duplicate them.

mesmers own plain and simple in PvE and PvP altho alot wil say they dont do damage well they do!

i think people are now realising the potential of a mesmer i just created mine and have found no problem finding a group at the start im asked can u bing interupts (which i always do) and get praise when i stop a monk boss completly

i makin a mesmer more for ma guild than anything else tho my mesmer is getting closer to my fav char slot

there so versitial degen, surge, and many more its a wonder why people havent seen a mesmers true skill, i always want a mesmer in a mission i do (also helps if they know wat to do)

I expect a primary mesmer to have phantom pain, shatter delusions, and some energy denial. Everything else, another class can do better. And I wish that weren't true.

My first character was a Mesmer and as such that's what I have the most experience in. I'd have to say there's one thing I expect from other Mesmers and myself: specialize. If you try and cover all your bases (caster shutdown, warrior crippling, energy denial, etc...) you leave all your bases open and can only do a mediocre job in each of those areas instead of doing an excellent job in one area. Mesmers can fill almost any role and doom almost anything. They just can't doom everything at once. In short, don't try to be a jack-of-all trades Mesmer. Specialize in a certain area and you'll do fine.

I'll speak for PVE here because for PVP, I simply can't think of a more tactically valuable class than mesmer, overall.

I'd definetly always want a mesmer on my team - they can even do nasty damage if they know what they're doing, but that's not what they do best. I adore mesmers that know what their class shines at - providing a tactical advantage not for himself, but for the rest of the team. Tactical advantage being the lowered efficiency of his targets, which is all that's needed to win really.

I'd expect him to think for himself and bring what he thinks is best for the situation, except being jack-of-all-trades of course, but that's idiocy with any class. And yeah, backfire on warriors brings out the beast in me

Actually, I really envy mesmers sometimes, they're so tactical it's just not fair

Same reason I always want a ranger (with a brain) on the team, and I'd take a mesmer or a ranger instead of a second monk in PVE any day. Then again, I don't get this OMG-we-need-2-monks fad anyway.

Hm.. so if I go interupt with 6 interupt skills in pve.. no-one is going to mind?

My biggest problem with specialising a build is the complete usless feeling I get when I'm set up to deal with casters and we're facing.. Aataxes and other fun meele stuffs. (btw, I'm not running pure interupt in UW). How much do teams mind knowing that their mesmer is just wanding things towards a slow death?

I have a mesmer. But whenever I have another one on a team. I am always sure to ask what the purpose of their build is. I mean what's the point in having two interrupt mesmers when one can focus on something else like domination.

A little part of me dies every day when mesmers do this.

All points to come are PvE related.

1) I expect the mesmer to be the last to die in any party wipe.
2) I expect the mesmer to be able to bring down any solo mob (Exceptions for bosses and megamobs like dragon lich) to rez the party.
3) I expect the mesmer to stop the most hazardous spells from striking the party (and therefore, know WHAT to interrupt from each group they fight).
4) I expect the mesmer to deal more damage than the others in the team (regarding by regen 1 energy to be 6hp, excluding ss necros and eles).
5) I expect hexes to be used on the right target. No backfires on Warriors.
6) I expect the mesmer not to need a battery every 5 seconds.
7) I expect the mesmer to know that conjure phantasm is one of the worst skills in late game.
8) I expect that the mesmer knows they are a mesmer, and use their primary class primarily.
9) I expect there to be no fastcast nuking attempts.
10) I expect none of the following spells: chaos storm, conjure phantasm, ether lord, to be used.

11) I expect mesmers to not bring these in PvE, unless they have some actually useful skills as well.
12) I expect mesmers to follow jciardha's suggestions, except for the Wastrel's worry one. Don't use that, its less efficient than flare.
13) I expect the mesmer to turn the tide on multi-monk groups.
14) I expect mesmers to have a clue about their area. Our class is the most 'mentalist,' and so long as you're on an RP char, I expect you to be smart.
15) I expect I'll never meet a mesmer that meets my expectations.

Do you mean on boss? Because on boss, WW pack some serious punch, and no way in hell flare can out damage it. (unless flare got a buff to increase its damage by 300% on boss)
========

I expect, monk run out of job or become a low pay job when more than one mes is in the party. (mobs is getting "dominated")

Wastrel's doesn't do more damage to bosses, it just does it faster, meaning your mesmer energy goes away faster... its still around 60 damage for 5 energy, and when you count the fail chance, its just meh. Plus bringing a skill only useful versus bosses (which are usually the last to be killed) is rather redundant.

I agree with those, but what is with the comparison to flare? lol

I guess I just hate flare that much... One of my taboo word I guess.

[ROAR] NO WAY IN HELL FLARE OUT DAMAGE ANYTHING!! [/ROAR]

Ok so the flare thing was a bit of a hyperbole, my point is wastrel's is crap!

Anyways flare is pretty awesome! You can spam it!

Fine, wastrel's is less efficient than stoning! Or fireball... or... well I don't know 16 ele damage stats. Pick something.

Not necessarily, at least not if you play with me when I am playing my Mesmer, which is my favorite character.

I dropped using massive health degeneration a long long time ago in PVE after I discovered how much else a Mesmer is good for. Health degen is dealt much better by a Necro anyway, which with curses can very easilly reach the maximum -10 degen limit.

I do use my mesmer very often for disrupting, and usually at least two skills are devoted to this when I play. But it is not by far the only thing my Mesmer is good for.

Some things I have been using more recently:

1) Ineptitude and clumsiness and empathy work well to stop warriors and rangers, and also work well against enemy spell casters as they normally attack inbetween spell casting. I guess these can be considered "disruptors" though, as they disrupt an attack and cause lots of damage doing so.

2) Inspired Hex to remove an allies hex, gain energy, and then use that hex against the enemy. Shatter hex to also remove an allies hex and hurt the enemy badly. Inspired hex is such a nice "monk" aid to the team, especially when being hit by spiteful spirit, backfire or other really bad hexes.

3) Spirit shackles + mind wrack at high domination levels does a lot of damage to any attacking foe. Helps to reduce the energy available for attacking spell casters. It takes a bit for this to take effect if the foe has a good supply of energy. But once that energy is near zero, my mind wrack deals 90 damage each time it is applied and the enemy attacks again.

4) Wastrels worry + shatter delusions work well together. Wastrels is a quick and cheap hex which then can be removed with shatter delutions to cause damage, then Wastrels can be applied again. I have noticed that against many enemy, wastrel succeeds at a high rate. I use it with shatter delutions because then the chance of doing 75 damage is 100%, where wastrel alone may fail.

5) Energy denial using many different skills, and Energy Surge is one of my favorites.

So in short, contrary to common belief, a Mesmer is much more than health degeneration and spell disrupting!

I find Wastrel's a very good skill to use in certain circumstances. It does 60 armor ignoring dmg for every 5en and 3 seconds. As in all things mesmer there are places where it excels. Used on mursaat bosses, chaos wurms, esp in combination with soul barbs it is deadly and cheap spam. Easily the most efficient in most circumstances, Pve mesmer spammable spell.

Someone in Guild asked me what mesmers do, this was my off the top of my head, scribble it down in 5 mins reply

Mesmers can serve several purposes, however very few of them are visible to the average 2 monks, 2 eles's ,2 monks player. Here are just a few

Purpose 1. To reduce pressure on the team by PREVENTING damage
using interupts, slows and spike mesmers can act as a defensive screen for the team. Which is better? For that ele to hit the party with chain lightning and then a monk to heal it, or to stop the hit in the first place.

Purpose 2. Be the glue that fills in the gaps.
A mesmer's skill set can compliement a wide varitey of builds. For example, Want to run a degen necro and ranger, then use a mesmer to add more conditions and then using epidemic or fevered dreams spread them to a whole mob and beyond.

Purpose 3. Energy drain
Does'nt apply that much to PvE but by using mind wrack, energy surge and energy burn etc you can drain a caster try and then kill them

Purpose 4. Silent killer.
Casters can be easily killed by backfire, energy burn and power spike. Kill warriors by empathy, diversion, panic and Sympatheic Visage. No one will know you are doing it tho..

Purpose 5. look good.
Mesmer have the best looking armor in the game. Have a mesmer in the team and left the level of style in your team in an instant

OOOOOooooohhhh.... Yeaaa.

That alone, should be sufficient.

Kickin... I mean...
Dominating ass with style!

12damage/energy, taking failure factor its about 8damage/energy, and you have to keep casting it on one target to maintain that.

Excuse me while I go play with my new 14dam/en Ineptitude (blinds too) and my 30+damage/energy empathy. Combined with soul barbs is the only time it doesn't suck horrendously imho, although on Wurms it isn't bad because they rarely do anything and are kinda slow.

High style FTW. I mean, assuming you look stylish and not like some suited pillock like most male mesmers

Out of interest and taking recharge time into account, which single mesmer only non elite skill would you use for spammable damage?

I guess the merits and demerits of WW is a place for the mesmer forum tho

I know Conjure Phantasm is not the best spell, but in term of damage, isn't it better than WW?

There's not many non-conditional damage spells in the Mesmer arsenal:

(non-Elites):

Conjure Phantasm
Phantom Pain
Energy Burn (even this requires the opp. to have energy!)

(Did I miss any?)

I don't count WW, b/c if they use a skill, no damage.

Most Mesmer spells require a condition: The opponent must be attacking, using a spell, using a skill, etc.

It's primarily a reactive class, not that it's a bad thing.

I've never tried this combo, but is that a bug? According to the description, WW only does damage after 3 seconds. If it ends prematurely, it does no damage, correct? (If I've been reading this wrong, then I'll feel very stupid!)

In any case, you've basically taken a 1 second recharge spell and turned it into a 10 second one. Plus, I'd rather save Shatter for when Phantom Pain recharges.

There's also other kinds of mesmers. These are the tye that use thier Fast casting to using thier secondary skills faster.

For example, I'm a Me/N But I generally have half mesmer half necro skills. I use Ether Feast for health, energy tap for energy management, and I also use wells. Fast casting is great for dropping wells ^_^

Some of the things that Mesmers can do and thus can be expected from Mesmers:

• bringing down the most dangerous enemy singlehandedly
• interrupting enemy key spells
• preventing the enemy from resurrecting (unless wanted by allied Minion Master... )
• ressing allies with fast cast res
• shattering the Mark of Protection off the bad guy
• disabling enemy casters (*cough* Mursaat Monk Bosses *cough*)
• making your group feel special by having a class in their party which noone else appreciates

yes, actually a Mesmer can do all of this with the same build

in PvP: making the opposition curse behind their keyboards...

Conjure Phantasm is excellent. The damage for the energy and time and energy invested is top-notch, and it's a fast degen as well which makes it hurt more. The only knock on it is that it's 'just' damage, instead of something that has some utility to it.

The bigger problem with the skill, at least as far as PvE goes, is that it's in Illusion, which is pretty shallow against bots. The speed and cast time debuffs aren't very good there, and that takes away all of your money skills, leaving you with sketchy stuff like Clumsiness to make a character out of.

At least for PvE Domination is the way to go. When I take a Mesmer pickup in a group I do it for one reason, to obliterate bosses. Being able to help out in normal fights is fine, but I want those boss monsters to go down hard. The best tool for this of course is Wastrel's Worry. Because of their resistance it falls off after one second, letting you spam it for 68 armor-ignoring damage per hit that rarely gets cancelled. You have some other nice disruptive stuff as well, just remember some of the other qwirks of bosses - your hexes won't last nearly as long making them kinda marginal, and energy debil takes a hit because bosses cheat on the energy regen. Stick to shattering off their hexes or enchants, with an occasional interrupt, and fill the rest of your bar with stuff that's more useful normally.

The other reason to take a mes is for fast casted Arcane Echo / Spiteful Spirit. Hey, as long as it's broken you might as well abuse it.

Peace,
-CxE

Let's see how many of your expectations Avarre I meet.

1) I expect the mesmer to be the last to die in any party wipe.
I am mostly the second before last to die. But when line of warriors falls then you can't help but have problems.

2) I expect the mesmer to be able to bring down any solo mob (Exceptions for bosses and megamobs like dragon lich) to rez the party.
I always check what creatures are in the area and make a build accordingly for dealing with most of the creatures. Preparation is an important part of being a mesmer.

3) I expect the mesmer to stop the most hazardous spells from striking the party (and therefore, know WHAT to interrupt from each group they fight).
Answer to expectation 2 should provide the answer.

4) I expect the mesmer to deal more damage than the others in the team (regarding by regen 1 energy to be 6hp, excluding ss necros and eles).
Again this is something that requires preparation. So the same as the answer above.

5) I expect hexes to be used on the right target. No backfires on Warriors.
That's a simple one to remember.

6) I expect the mesmer not to need a battery every 5 seconds.
The joys of the mesmers ability to steal energy and create it from thin air.

7) I expect the mesmer to know that conjure phantasm is one of the worst skills in late game.
Two words 'Crippling Anguish'

8) I expect that the mesmer knows they are a mesmer, and use their primary class primarily.
Sometimes i'll mostly use mesmer spells. But will on occaisons make use of my second profession using a 3:1 ratio of first/second profession spells.

9) I expect there to be no fastcast nuking attempts.
Nuking isn't one of my strong points. So I generally avoid it. Stick to what your good at.

10) I expect none of the following spells: chaos storm, conjure phantasm, ether lord, to be used.
I never really use these. Chaos storm however I use when running in which case it's useful for clearing a path.

11) I expect mesmers to not bring these in PvE, unless they have some actually useful skills as well.
I think I justified my reasoning above.

12) I expect mesmers to follow jciardha's suggestions, except for the Wastrel's worry one. Don't use that, its less efficient than flare.
I use skills depending on the build i'm aiming for.

13) I expect the mesmer to turn the tide on multi-monk groups.
I use the simple tactic of shutdown the monks in the background and interrupt the one the groups attacking.

14) I expect mesmers to have a clue about their area. Our class is the most 'mentalist,' and so long as you're on an RP char, I expect you to be smart.
I'm always sure to know what enemies and what routes to take in different areas.

15) I expect I'll never meet a mesmer that meets my expectations.
That's all a matter of personal opinions and how high a level your expectations are at.

However we are only human. So it's impossible to do everything perfectly all the time.

The 'perfect' concept will differ from person to person, always. I just recently started a Mesmer, haven't played one yet. I shall learn the skills as I get them and create builds that I deem to be appropriate. In that light I expect to play the character they way I wish to play him, not how others assume that I 'should' play him.

In PvP Mesmers = total ownage
When i monk the first thing i look for is a mesmer and i try to figure out what spells they are using so i know how to try(emphasis on try) to counter them. A good mesmer there's nothing to do about but stay alive as long as possible and hope your team kills them off first. Personally the mesmers that give me the most grief are e-denial mesmers. Backfire/Migrane/Arcane condrum can be a pain but unless covered quickly with otehr hexes i can quickly remove them with cop and i now most likly i just took the spells that were the basis of their builds and made them useless. I agree with the statement made that mesmers need to focus on doing one thing(shut-down, anti-war, e-denial.......) and not spread them selves over several anti-whatever fields. I agree that mesmers have been unapreciated for to long and like teh last update which seemed to really buff mesmer skills. And the statement made about mesmers not putting backfire on a tank made is funny and true all at once. I don't know how many itme i've seen backfire put on me when i'm playing a tank in random. And the mesmer ask why it didn't work on me. :P
For PvE i expect mesmers to shut down enemy caster(primarly monk bosses) as well as be able to help some with the damage. Also they need to know what kind of monsters are in the zones they will be exploring to properly equip them selves(this applies to ALL profeshions) If your not really gonna be fighting alot of casters bring more anti-tank skills and stuff. Mesmers should defenetly be one of the last in a party to die. Tanking is not one of your specialties so plz don't try to unless your trying to protect your monk or something cause your tank uses frenzy + heal sig in the middle of 50 eneimies (they of course then whine about not being kept alive and leave the group after calling your monk a noob).

These are some of the things i think mesmers should be able to do with there groups. Perhaps mesmer will finally get the recognition the deserve after this last update.

Empathy. Spamming skills is a waste of time when you could hex multiple enemies.

So I take it you don't invite mesmers for UW/FoW (or do you need that mesmer along just to handle the priest of menzies? )

Specializing to handle bosses is a waste of skill slots imo, bosses have classes, you should be specced to handle that class already in PvE.

Nice thread.

I have noticed most have written their expectations more as their wants though.I play pve, so what I want from a mesmer is:

To go Dom OR Ill when there are two mesmers in a party (rarity, yes). Makes perfect sense to me. Means you arent spamming the same hexes on foes etc.

If they are me/mo, to be the last person standing and be the run away then rez guy if s__t hits the fan. To carry rebirth.

Not to IW tank in areas they're blatantly gonna get stripped/shattered etc. To make an effort to cover if they must do this.

Others have all been said and its 2:15 am im tired

I'm finding a lot of these expectations to be ill made, and some downright offensive. People seem hell-bent on putting Mesmers in a corner of "what they should do" that squanders their full potantial. And some of the more offensive things are coming from other Mesmers.

Good thing all mesmers do the one thing that's required to be a mesmer.

Use a build that works, not one someone ordered you to use.

In fact I can't leave this alone. Mesmers are not meant to be JUST mesmers. Fastcasting is there for reasons other then being a Rezmer or quicken other Mesmer skills. Unfortunately, a lot of older Mesmers (their first char.) are so used to using cookie cutter builds that the idea of using a secondary beyond 1-2 skills is unthinkable.

I expect mesmers to dress scantily and bring me breakfast in bed. Oh and also screw up casters.

TA and RA:
I expect the mesmer to pack as much direct damage as they can, energy denail is handy but the aim of TA and RA is to kill quickly. I can usually take half the health from any foe with a chain of - Shatter enchant, backfire, diversion, energy surge, followed by power spike when backfire ends. Of course these spells are conditional but most casters (and some non-casters) always put themselves in bad situations.

GvG:
Being able to maintain heavy energy denial on particular targets, and also some enchant removal.

HA:
Energy denial with energy burn and surge, combined with mind wrack and phantom pain, etc.

PvE:
I expect a Mesmer in PvE to keep the team a little safer by blocking AoE spells and enemy monks healing. I am always the last to die in PvE, because it's easy to run in and out of combat while quickly casting spells on enemies.

Think of a Mesmer like Dorian Gray - Immortal, seductive and dangerous. Hey, I am Dorian Gray!

PvE:

Lets glyph of lesser energy, arcane echo, shatter hex, or hell, even echo shatter hex. Be aware of the monsters in the areas you are in. Bring shatter hex if you know the area is hex heavy, and mantra of resolve if you know the area is interrupt heavy like hte storm kin outside of seekers. Also, kill bosses in 10 seconds. Wastrels + Handful of Interrupts + Phantom Pain (with no illusion) + Shatter Delusions at max dom can kill a boss in a matter of seconds, you just have to know when to pp + shatter.

PvP: Mesmers are used very differently here. Different builds, so I expect the mesmer to play whatever build they are given/using well.

The only time in the game where people have their builds sorted tht i've played with one would be the RoF missions, shutdown is all i've done with

*Interrupt/disrupt/otherwise cause foes' skills not to work as intended
*carry hex removal to remove some pressure off monks
*carry enchantment removal to ease killing

*TO KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEIR SKILLS ACTUALLY DO & THE RANGE OF THE SKILLS.
*To call things when they are doing them (Empathy/soothing images/ignorance on a warrior foe, backfire/power block on monk, diversion on boss caster) so that the party applies more pressure to that monster.

The purpose of those hexes is a duration weakening... if you put empathy on one warrior, the team should hit the other one, then switch to the empathied which will have taken considerable damage and STILL have the hex on it. Only exception to this are monk mobs that need to be brought down while under the pressure of the hex.

Ok I don't expect anything

That can be a problem....if you don't know how to play your character well enough.

Briallan may be a shut-down mesmer, but she always takes Empathy (good against melee) and can put on Rotting Flesh for health degen of any other frisky melee fighters as well as casters. If I know there are few casters wherever she's adventuring that day, I review her skills list and pull out other skills, spells and hexes to play with. As with any class, you have to be versatile and act according to the situation/area. Hex removal skills are very handy in certain parts of the Desert now .