Why only 2 char slots?

man you still fail to comprehend what people are saying.
try actually reading what people tell you...and make an effort in understanding it aswell.

1) you're wrong. the 100mb are plums and oranges since they grant access to different experiences(Prophecies vs. Factions) but their cost value is the same 50$ each. so it's :

100mb/50$ = 100mb/50$

plums/50$ = oranges/50$

combined that's plums & oranges/100$(plums & oranges is equal to your apples )

the "percived value" goes up because of the increased value in possible flavours. however the actual cost value remains the same, note in the real world(that's the world outside Anet's marketing) that the price doesn't go up nor does the quantity of plums and oranges decrease.

2) the most likely reason that it doesn't work out is that the original was never meant to deal with your(or Anets) ridicolously non-sensical logic. and ontop of that you keep twisting the analogy to fit your own twisted version. funnily enough the things you point out as to not working actually does work and completely debunks your own logic(funny how you keep doing that)

the merged hardrive is not achived by getting 1 hardrive...it's attained by allowing data transfer between the two hardrives. and thus you also allow 100mb data to access 200mb storage, 100mb storage on each hardrive, notice however that in the real world(the one outside Anet's marketing) that the actual cost value of the 100mb remains the same, the storage capacity likewise stays the same, also in price.

of course your last math doesn't makes sense at all because you're know comparing to completely different things: "100mb data vs. 200mb storage" or in guildwars terms "1 character slot vs. 2 x gameworld content" of course these are not equal(note however that 1 character does have access to 2 x gameworld content) in this case it's not even:

1 orange/50$ = 1 plum/50$ nor 1 orange/50$ = 2 plums/100$(- 1 plum/50$)

but

orange = volkswagen

3) bla bla bla a whole lot of stuff based on a fallacy (I'll get back to this later) the point still remains that although plums and oranges are different, it's completely irelevant when their actual cost value is the same. it's still:

plums/50$ = oranges/50$

if you go to a store and and buy 4 plums for 50$ and 4 oranges for 50$ the cost and quantity is the same regardless of wether or not you choose to combine the two in a meal. the percieved value goes up(tastes better) but you still have 4 plums and 4 oranges worth 100$ total.

in the real world you will never experience that if you choose to buy the plums and oranges at the same time and tell the shop keeper that you're planning to combine them into one meal, that he shop keeper will suddenly deduct 1 plum and 1 orange but still have you pay the same price....because frankly no sane business(except Anet apparently) will do anything like that because they will loose business, due to the fact that no sane persons(except rapid fanboys with no brains and all d's in math) will ever buy into that deal!(buy 2 for the price of 3)

the fact that you choose to merge your accounts/slots should not increase the actual cost either in $price or game content.

like I've said before the ability to merge accounts is and has always been a given. it's already included in the price for the game(saying that it's not, is the fallacy I mentioned), it's a feature not an added priviledge. since day one it was touted as a feature with no mention whatsoever of any aditional cost besides that of buying the chapter you want to merge with. and this already comes with an "increased" price since you pay full retail price for what is essentially a expansion for return customers. so the price for being able to transfer characters from tyria to cantha is payed thru the full retail price of the expansion and there should not be any aditional cost added in the form of reducing content! seing as this will essentially be adding a "hidden" cost, something Anet said they would not introduce(but then again Anet lately seems to be full of BS)

note that I'm not really complaining about the price of the "expansion" it's fair enough as long as there is no slot loss, seing as it does function as a stand alone for new customers. however if there's a slot loss I expect to pay less, because I get less than what I paid for.

and before you begin all your ladeda "Factions is not an expansion!" bs, it IS an expansion to return customers... if anything the "will you merge or not?"-thread proves this, as no return customer in their right mind wouldn't merge, seeing as it would completely ruin the whole idea of "Chapters" and remove one of the major selling points of Prophecies...the fact that you would be able to take characters thru future chapters(this was a major selling point for me atleast)

and the whole "you're buying unmerge slots" is a fallacy aswell as I've already explained. you buy mergeable slots, they're included in the price of the game or if anything the full price for the "expansion".

4) people keep saying they're not arguing against 8 slots and that they're not trying to justify Anet...but really they are. you go out of your way to shoot down any arguments for more slots even though it helps nobody(including yourself) if you want Anet to give us 8 slots why not then come up with a "better" argument for this rather than shooting down others apparently "faulty arguments" and then offer no alternative??? when you spend more time argueing against 8 slots than for it, you're actually arguing against it, and when your argument against it is the exact same as Anet's bullshit-marketing then you are indeed justifying Anets actions! despite what you think, you're not doing anyone a service but everybody(including yourslef) a huge disservice. why are you arguing Anets side? you shouldn't...Anet should!

5) in the real world only the percieved value increases(you like it more because it grants you greater diversity) but the actual cost value remains the same. again you'll never see "buy 2 for the price of 3!"

I for one am convinced that ANet had a great idea about adding two slots and I will gladly pay my 25€ for it (Which will be merged to the 50€ I paid for Prophecies to create a bank account of 75€ and will therefore get 50% more interest! Man, that's a great deal for them!).

considering the fact thati f you merge accounts, you can bring assasins and ritualists into prophicies, and the fact that you will not be able to use prophicy only skills with the character for factions for all 8 characters abd vice versa.

well, another good mornig to you all, after my graveyard shift, i see were only at 9 pages so it seems to be dying down a bit thank god!!!. well i see that fruit was introduced into all of this, and being that it's st. patricks day, why not a beer equation. please use guiness beer as the equation vs another beer being that, guiness is my irish beer of choice..

Look i know that some of you are/aren't happy about all this 2 slot thing and there's nothing that we can really do about it. sure its good to hear peoples ideas as to why it or why it didn't go this or that way. but it really isn't that hard to figure out the slots and all the 50/100% of game available, is it?

wish a mod would just close this thread. just my 2 plat worth.

how on earth is there another thread on this, after the merged 6 char thread further down went into double numbered pages.

some mod please put us out of our misery

Great, you're entitled to your own opinions. I said my piece (more times than I feel I had need to) and am done with the topic. Feel free to use whatever arguments you feel are necessary to get what you want. I feel your main argument is unfounded, as do you my logic for why it is not a valid argument. We value the content in GW differently. Agree to disagree and move on.

Maybe I'll go back some time and read past the first sentence of your post, but I have no reason to believe there is any new information there. Everyone is just saying the same thing over and over.

Agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

EDIT: OK, I went back and read your response. I was right, no new information. You have no understanding of my viewpoint. Meanwhile, I understand your viewpoint completely but think it's unjustified. Seriously, I understand your argument and did well before I even started posting about it. All everything you (and others) have posted since I spoke up have only indicated to me that I do really understand where you (and others) are coming from. I would make the same argument for more slots as you if I didn't find other aspects of merging to be more valuable than considering just the slots and ignoring all else. You value slots. I value slots and content and don't believe the game is just about slots. I prefer to see the forest, not just the trees.

The 4+4=8 argument is the only one I have argued against. I have no issue with any of the others. And I, myself, have a better reason than spouting (what are in my mind...and many others') logical fallacies...it's because I want 8 slots. That's it. I just want them. So let's agree to disagree and move on. There's no changing your mind and no one has offered any irrefutable logic as to why I should change mine. In the end, we both want the same thing, regardless of our justifications.

I also vote for the hand of Mod to close this thread.

EDIT EDIT: Dude, did I just bring forestry into the discussion?

1)I have a understanding of your viewpoint, the problem is that it's so incorrect. it's corrupted and perverted by Anets Marketing ploy something I have just PROVEN with FACTS and not just personal opinion!

meanwhile you do NOT understand our viewpoint, otherwise you wouldn't call it a fallacy or unjustified!

2) I'm NOT considering just slots, it is slots+content, just like it has always been! if you take away any of the two you take away something from the package and the customer gets less for more. or to put it in your analogy if you cut away half the trees then there's less forest to look at! durh.

as I've said before your perception of the matter is irelevant, as it does not change the FACTS:

if you buy 1 orange for 10$ and I buy 1 orange for 10$ it doesn't matter that you really like oranges, you still spend 10$ and you still got just 1 orange, just like me.

at the same token if you bought 1 orange for 20$ and I bought 1 orange for 10$, it doesn't really matter that you really like oranges(and that you somehow manages to convince yourself you made a good deal...perhaps with a little help from the shop keeper eh?), the FACT is that you still made a worse deal than me.

do note that so far Anet has said nothing about you getting MORE content for merging(on the contrary so far you loose content in loosing 2 slots), you simply get to combine the content.(putting two fruits into a basket does not give you three fruits!) if Anet was to reveal that people who merges the accounts gets content that is exclusive to them vs. people who choose not to merge, then I might reconsider whether or not this exclusive content would justify a reduction in character slots(though really I still see it as unecesary punishment for return customers) in general if Anet was to give ANY LOGICAL reason for this I'd reconsider.

3) the problem is that you go out of your way to shootdown peoples arguments for 8 slots, without trying to present any better arguments yourself, which is highly counter productive considering you yourself claim to want 8 slots aswell and it leaves you arguing just for the sake of arguing.

wouldn't the time you spent trying to disprove peoples logic with all your fallacies and stupid semantics have been better spent coming up with better arguments? and no your reason that you simply WANT it, is NOT a better argument as it places you smack dab in the "gimmie gimmie gimmie" crowd that was the very first naysayer argument against it, that people simply wanted the more...it's the reason that people have gone to great lengths to prove with logic and math that they're not just wanting more, but that there's a reason and logic that dictates that they shouldn't get less!

these maths and logics are NOT fallacies! it doesn't matter that you think they are, because as I've said before what you THINK does NOT change the FACTS! this is even more true when what you think has been largely dictated by Anets marketing ploy, you've said it many times yourself "Anet consider merged slots to be more valuable"...so I guess if Anet suddenly considers their game to be worth 1000$ that you would just go with it without questioning it? as I've said before the percieved value really doesn't matter wheter it is yours or Anet's...so far the FACT is that you get less for your money.

the only reason that you think nobody has offered any irrefutable logic, is that you just plain ignore or refuse to see the FACTS! I'd happily agree to disagree if it wasn't for the fact that your argument is helping NOBODY(except the fat cats at Anet) but is shooting everybody in the foot(including your own) you keep saying you want 8 slots but at the same time you keep working against it, it's highly counter-productive and quite frankly morronic. you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at everybody's expense, when you're not even the one that should be arguing Anets case, Anet is the one that should be doing that!

but yeah you're right I think you should move on and not post in this thread anymore...atleast that way you're not getting in the way of people who wants something better for EVERYONE just for the sake of getting in the way...or as you put it "being right"(even though you're wrong)

but before you move on let me just ask you this:

if you go to shop that has 4 oranges for 50$ and 4 plums for 50$ seperately, if you choose to buy both 4 oranges and 4 plums at the same time or put them all into one meal... does the price suddenly exceed 100$ then? or do the total quantity of fruit suddenly decrease?

oranges ? plums ? wtf is going on here ? Just agree to disagree will ya ?

The only interesting thing about this thread is just how bad Loviatar's sarcasm can get before someone else notices....

Fine...I'll answer your final two questions as it pertains specifically to buying 4/$50 oranges and 4/$50 plums. No, the price doesn't exceed $100. No, the total quantity of fruit doesn't decrease.

I like oranges. I also like plums. They each offer equal amounts of nutrition but have their own distinct flavor and texture.

However, I've decided I don't want oranges or plums. I want a genetically-bred hybrid that has been developed called a 'plorange' that offers twice the nutrition of either an orange or a plum. Since I've been a loyal shopper at that market for nearly a year now, they are offering me 'ploranges' 6/$100. Of course, while a better deal (maybe not numerically, but nutritionally) than buying 4 oranges and 4 plums separately, it'd be nice if I could get 'ploranges' 8/$100.



So...we're moving on now, yes?

The truth about character slots.

Okay people get rid of all the bullcrap math, because that is exactly what it is. If you really would like to know which is better make a table for both choices and include the benefits and opportunity cost for each choice. Once you have done this, examine it to find which choice is more favorable. Once you have that figured out, make the choice. (for those fanatics wanting to find an answer)

I understand that they could have added 4 more slots, however they didn't. They created the game and keep it running, therefore they can do almost whatever they would like with it. If you have a problem with the way they conduct their business, DON'T PLAY THE GAME.

Chart is a good idea! I came up with a quick one and my own view of advantages and diadvantages.



ALSO in Prophecies Only, you can experience the most out of each character by having a Character Setup like the Following:

Slot 1 : Mo/N
Slot 2 : E/Me
Slot 3 : W/**
Slot 4 : R/**
** are the two empty “secondary slots”, so theoretically you are getting two extra slots if you look at it in this way.

In Factions, if you wanted to experience the most out of every type of character, your setup would have to go something like this:

Slot 1 : Mo/N
Slot 2 : E/Me
Slot 3 : W/Rt *
Slot 4 : R/A *
* The two extra slots are gone.

Merging the two together, your setup could be like this:

Slot 1 : Mo/N
Slot 2 : E/Me
Slot 3 : W/**
Slot 4 : R/**
Slot 5 : Rt/**
Slot 6 : A/**
** now you have 4 extra slots for other types of characters.

Having two separate accounts your setup could go like so:

Slot 1 : Mo/**
Slot 2 : E/**
Slot 3 : W/**
Slot 4 : R/**
Slot 5 : N/**
Slot 6 : Me/**
Slot 7 : Rt/**
Slot 8 : A/**

** You have eight extra slots, and you have experienced every character as a primary BUT you are only able to experience Cantha with your Ritualist and Assasin, and say you wanted to play Cantha with a Warrior, well you are going to have to delete one of your Characters on your Factions Account. You will have to repeat that if you want to experience every type of character throughout the entire game, PLUS you character will have to start Cantha at level 1 instead of 20. Also, there is a PvP problem as Striderkaaru said before, you will not be able to participate in Faction Battles with your Prophecies Characters.

I am basically looking at the fact that you can have a secondary profession is like having two slots per character. I would love to be able to have a slot for every type of character as a primary, but that ain’t gunna happen, so I might as well look at the benefits.

I am sick and tired of this repeated arguing (not even a discussion) regarding wether or not it is better to have one merged factions and prophecies account or two seperate accounts (one of each)

I am going to try to explain this as simply as I can.
This is to be my ONE and ONLY post on this subject - I will not make any more posts regarding this, nor will I read any post in responce to this one, so agruing against me for the purpose of trying to get me to change my mind, or alter my reasoning, is only going to waist your time and effort.

Guild Wars: Factions has access to both Core Skills and Factions Skills
Guild Wars: Prophecies has access to both Core Skills and Prophecies Skills.

Core Skills, Factions Skills, and Prophecies Skills are all roughly equal to eachother in numbers.
So, lets assign numerical values to them equal to eachother.
Core Skills = 1
Factions Skills = 1
Prophecies Skills = 1

Therefor, each character slot of a single game has a numerical value of 2 (1+1). Multiply that by 8 (for 8 total slots, two seperate accounts), and you have two seperate accounts have a total value of 16

Now, each character slot of a merged account has a numerical value of 3 (1+1+1). Multiply that by 6 (for 6 merged slots), and you have a single account with a value of 18.

This means that a merged account has a greater value over two seperate accounts as far as skills are concerned.

Now, lets look at items:
All factions only items will be available to prophecies players soly through trade.
All prophecies only items will be available to factions players soly through trade.

Two seperate accounts will have to transfer the items between their accounts, or purchase them.
A merged account can find both sets of items, and transfer them between characters through storage.

Now, Assassin and Ritualist characters WILL NOT be able to play in ANY of the prophecies content on seperat accounts, whereas a merged account can have characters of all profession combinations.

If you create two seperate accounts, the new one will have NOTHING unlocked at the begining, and you will have to start from scratch.

A merged account will have everything you unlocked on your first account unlocked after the second account is added.

At all points, a merged account has an advantige over two seperate accounts.
Please note - Accounts that are NOT merged will have a distinct disadvantige in PvP enviroments from a lack of voriety over merged accounts, due to only having access to 2/3rds of the skills available, and in the case of the prophecies account, access to only 3/4th of the available character professions.

Now, on a final note, factions only accounts are overpowered than prophecies accounts on all information I have yet seen, due to the fact that they have access to 8 professions while the prophecies has access to only 6 professions.

If arenanet is bothering to read this, my suggestion to balance this out, is assign 4 professions as "Core Professions", available to all guild wars chapters, and two professions per chapter available to accounts that possess that chapter. My personal recomendation for the Core Professions would be:
Warrior
Ranger
Monk
Elementalist

Prophecies Professions:
Mesmer
Necromancer

Factions Professions:
Assassin
Ritualist

Feal free to quote anything here to use as an argument against eachother.

As I stated at the begining, arguing against ME, rather than the IDEA'S, is nothing more than a waist of your time and energy, and an annoyance to anyone else reading this thread.

Have fun tearing each others hair out over this, and in my personal oppinion, those who still seem to think having two seperate accounts over one merged account is to their advantage, do so and we will see who wins in PvP.
ME



EDIT: My first post on this missed a few points, so I will now list them, and for the next couple ours I will continue to edit if I think of any more.

The previously mentioned (4*50)+(4*50)=400, (6*100)=600, although not correct for most aspects of merging, is in fact valid for story-line content of the game, and does infact further explain that merging accounts is in fact better than having two seperate accounts.

In Prophecies, their where 6 professions, yet only 4 slots - we could not have a character of all professions on a single account.
With Factions, they are adding 2 new professions, and on merged accounts, 2 more character slots, so once again we are left with 2 slots short of having all professions on the same account. So why do people feel the need to have all professions, when previosly they have done just fine without?

My solution, although people will argue with due to costing to much, is have two seperate accounts, each merged - costing a total of 2 factions and 2 prophecies. Upon the release of prophecies, I purchased one collectors edition, and two weeks later, purchased another. I have already pre-ordered two copies of factions, and will purchace two collectors editions once the game is released in aprox. 1 month.
Previously, I had the ability to have a character of each primary profession, and 1 PvP slot available on each account. Now, after factions is released, I will have the ability to have one of each primary profession, two characters to do with as I will, and 1 PvP slot available for each account. I am not complaining.
Anet is not going to up the available slots on merged accounts, and having two un-merged accounts has numerous distinct disadvantages. How you deal with it is up to you, but deal with it, stop arguing about this bullshit.

And anet, if you do indeed read these forums as you claim, I ask that you increase account item storage by at least 1colom x 1 row, or 2 colloms or 2 rows, as this would be a very useful update to all guild wars players.
Further, please set it so that people who merge accounts have access to 1.5x the account storage space as those that only own one of them, or have 2 unmerged accounts - this will provide a valid argument for 2 unmerged accounts over 1 merged, sence greater storage space, but it is a small argument, and the unmerged accounts still have to deal with transfering items between accounts.

The only problem I can forsee about my suggestion for 4 core professions and 2 professions for each chapter, would be aditional skills - this is easly solved. Each chapter adds skills for ALL professions, however, some of those skills "float" there, unusable untill someone merges the chapter that gives the skills with the chapter that gives the professions - this will keep it balanced, and maintain 6 professions available for any chapter used as a "stand-alone" game, while further promoting merging accounts, which happens to seem like what you want, anet.

Another balancing tecnique, that will also promote merging accounts, would be to create a set of assassin and ritualist skills that are only available through prophecies - they will be there but not be usable to prophecies only accounts, and although usable, will not be there for factions only accounts. Adding such skills for new professions in upcoming chapters, to the already existing ones, will promote merging accounts, and provide a balance I feal is very much needed.

A favor I have to ask of guild wars representitives on these forums:
I am not convinced you do indeed these threads, so if you see this, I have a few propositions.

1) start posting a comment or two every now and then about topics on threads, so we know you are there and we have some input dirrectly from arenanet/ncsoft

2) I understand that reading these forums, and those of other fan sites can be very tedious, and often near impossable if you do indeed only have 2 such representitives, as I believe from some information I gatherd somewhere I can no longer remember - my suggestion, hire a few more representitives, it will greatly improve the use of these forums.

3) also, many people post ideas on this thread, and I, personaly, would like to recieve credit for the idea if it was indeed mine - I in no way claim a copywrite or some such on the ideas, nor do I want a prize, simply an acnolegment, and I susspect that other players/posters would apreciate that as well.

If you do indeed start posting more frequently on threads, please start with this one, and explain to all what advantages and disadvantages are accosiated with keeping two seperate accounts, or merging them, to help quench this on-going argument. Please do not post marketing ideals, simply what advantages and disadvantages you see with the available options.

In responce to silky, as I saw your thread while updating this only, this link should explain a few things regarding my reasoning about the skill values for each character slot on merged and unmerged accounts.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=134138

Nice posts, Silky and Shadow...

I have been trying to figure out a "mathematical" approach at this, to basically make the separate and merged equal but couldn't. ShadowMagus I like your idea, but what is the difference between Core Skills and Prophecies Skills? Aren't they the same thing? The Core skills being the skills we have now, the Prophecy Skills. The Factions Skills would be only available to Faction players but they would include new skills for the Core Characters also, but these skills would not be available to Prophecies only characters?

The only thing that confuses be basically is do the Prophecies Only players get new skills when Factions is released?

I will add more to my chart to make it easier for people who are reading this giant thread to choose whichever suits them most.

In a more mathematical approach, we could try coming up with a quadratic for each choice and then experiment with the derivative just kidding!

No, skills will remain the same in Prophecies.

i blame the mods for letting this thread go as far as it has gotten, I mean seriously mods, you've seen numerious threads like this, where pages have gotten into the teens of pages that rehash that same o'le bs that we already know, sure there are some that may not know or unaware but arent there already other areas to check, just direct them to guildwars website.

C'mon mods you close other threads on a whim, saying either go to this site for all your answers to your questions, or find that a topic has already been discussed to the point of pouring perfume on a dead pig, to rejuvinate an old topic. close this whole thread ok...and put it out of its misery.

If this thread is going over old ground then why are you reading it? Why not ignore it and STFU?

As for merging/not merging for a single player the utility of merging is a no-brainer. The only big advantage of not merging is two non-merged accounts can be played at the same time, you could play Factions while your friend or kid brother or whoever plays Prophecies and vica versa, you could even PvP together.

On the number of slots, you can only play one slot at a time, you can't play the game more because you have more slots. It places a restriction on what character you can play the game with at a particular time, it forces you to delete characters so you can experience the game with different classes. It is an arbitrary restriction on how you are allowed to play the game and it sucks.

IMO one slot per primary profession and a PvP slot is a bare minimum, Phophecies didn't have enough slots. The character selection screen was hard coded for 4 slots, people complained but didn't hold out much hope for more slots because it obviously wasn't easy to change. People hoped for more slots with the SF update. It didn't happen.

The character selection screen has been completely redesigned to accomodate more slots for Factions and beyond, the server side storage for characters is trivial (Blizzard had no trouble providing infinite slots in D2).

There is some minor consideration about total inventory space in the game world which would rule out a huge number of slots.

I don't buy Anet wanting people to buy multiple copies as a reason, multiple copies can be played at the same time - bad for server load, bad for sales, multiple copies are a pain for logging in, transfering items, and especially for unlocking (if you care about unlocks) people would be more likely to buy and pay more for additional slots than additional accounts.

Anet have chosen not to fix this Prophecies problem with the release of Factions. I have no idea why they choose to make the game less attractive.

damn!!this thread is still alive???!!?!!

someone close it. delete all the worthless posts, keep the ones that explains the situation of merged and unmerged, sticky it, and puch anyone in the face who makes another thread on the subject.

Ah yes, yet another character slot thread. I've already stated many times on the original character slot thread my views on the subject, so am not going to rehash them here, but there is something I do want to bring up since it does relate to this topic.

Anet used the equation 6x100 > 8x50 to justify the slot numbers for a merged account. However, we already know that that is completely faulty math:

6 primaries in C1 with content unique to each. 4 slots to play with in C1 = 67% total content accessable at any one time.

8 primaries in C2 with content unique to each. 4 slots to play with when unmerged = 50% content accessable at any one time.

8 primaries in C1+C2 with content unqiue to each. 6 slots to play with when merged = less than 75% content accessable at any one time. Here's why:

We know as a fact that 20% of Faction's content is for new, low level characters, while 80% was designed for our current ascended characters. Therefore with a merged account, 4 characters are only able to access 80% of the game.

When a new character is created, we must choose whether that is going to be a Canthan character or a Tyrian character - therefore we are unable to access one of the two tutorial worlds with that character - which means Tyrian born is missing that 20% of Factions, Canthan born is missing, say 5%-10% of Prophecies. Now if those two new characters are A and Rt, they may be missing even more content if they are not permitted to be born in Tyria, or if they are, a huge update will be necessary in Prophecies (both Pre and Post Searing) in order to add content for those characters to use and explore.

Now, we must factor in the alliances and Factions of Chapter 2. As stated in the FAQ, certain missions and explorable areas will only be accessable by one alliance/Faction or the other. No mention yet on how neutrality plays into accessing content. So essentially, each Faction will have 50% access to the high level content, and from what I can deduce thus far, neutral parties will have access to neither, so they'll be getting even less content.

No where in any of these equations did I see 100% ability to access content with any character. Just where the heck did the Anet devs go to school to come up with their equation?

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

You know what, I'm sure A-net probably has some really good economical reasons for only giving you 6 slots if you merge, so if you disagree with their plans, do it by not buying Factions.

If enough people don't buy Factions because of A-net's screwed up policy, then they'll realize they should have went with 8 merged slots.

Arguing about it here isn't really going to change anything.

Existing GW players end up with 6 slots and new users get 4 slots. I think that is fair enough.

I also disagree with ANet's math, but think that a merged account still comes out on top. As you pointed out, the devs have said that 80% of the factions content will be for level 20 ascended characters. One point you were off on was that they also estimated that 50% of our current content is geared towards level 20 ascended characters, not 90-95%. Also, anyone playing factions with a faction born character will have access to 100% of factions. You're not limited to one side and can change as many times as you'd like, so the assumption that you can never get more than 50% of content out of Factions is flawed.


Here are the numbers as ANet probably should have given them out:

Prophecies + Factions Separate Accounts:
4 character slots with 100% access to Prophecies Campaign.
4 character slots with 100% access to Factions Campaign.
total: 400% of Prophecies, 400% of Factions

Prophecies + Factions Merged Accounts (assuming you were a devout player and already beat the game with 4 of your slots):
4 character slots with 100% access to Prophecies and 80% access to Factions.
2 character slots with 100% access to Factions and 50% access to Prophecies.
total: 500% of Prophecies, 520% of Factions

As soon as you take PvP into account, it becomes a whole different ball-game. PvPers greatly benefit from the merge because they are about flexibility and need to have all their unlocks accessible at any given time. Thus they can't be restricted to only having certain skills on this or that account.

What Hanok was saying, I believe, is that because of the Factions alliance/border/territory/PvP game, players are being shorted in several ways. The slots for one, still nothing in print, no "Official" word as to why we don't have one slot per primary class. There are assumptions and ideas thrown out, but nothing official on it. Now, enter Factions with the already shortage of character slots we have, much of the game content (speaking on the PvE side of things) is locked out untill areas are unlocked via PvP mini-games.
So, the "fuzzy math" that us consumers have been given is even more off than once was thought.
Another was to think about it is this; a player chooses the following:
Warrior, Monk, Ele and Ranger. Four classes with four unique quests for skills, armor and weapons. All of these things are content. Necro and Mesmer are left out and the player can not try these classes out without deleting one of the characters (not always an option for everyone for various reasons). Therefore that player loses that content.
Add in Factions with two more classes and the player is still missing out on two primary classes with even more content (two continents worth of content for those classes) they can't access.
Now, further add in the new territory system/border lines and there's even more content the player can't access.
There are plenty of topics on the PvP mini-games (the supposed PvE content in Factions), so here is not the place to discuss it.
Combine the two issues and there is less and less content that the player has access too.
Having more slots would aleave some of this and allow players to more fully enjoy the game.

imo, ur not paying for a monthly fee, so far ANET support has been excellent, and i would rather drop 2 char slots than have terrible server lag because they cant afford anymore. All in all, stop complaining. 2 new proffesions, 2 new character slots seems fair to me, rather than the new players, who will get 4 character slots for 8 new proffesions. Aside from that, you of course have the choice to take 4, you will just not have the use of all skills for all proffesions.

And of course, GW is a pvp game in essence. PvP players need only 1 slot in order to play all proffesions. Maybe ANET are encouraging ppl to put down their Wammos and come join us guys in the arenas :P We are all waiting....

in the future the will be expensive add-ons that gives you
additional charactor slots so please kill this thread

Oh really? And you know this how? I don't recall seeing that information anywhere...

what i did see of interest that could sort this out over time was the flat statement that not all chapters would have 2 new profesions.

if 2 slots is being set as a standard by chapter 2 (will see on 3) that leaves room as soon as they have enough assorted professions/skills to keep people busy they might in say chapter 4 offer one new profesion and 1 emply slot cutting the slot deficite to only 1 slot short of 1/primary.

do this 2 in a row and you have your 1/primary.

since this is just the game foundation they are building on i eagerly await what it will look like a year from now.

but everybody cant have everything they want yesterday

The thing is, I would like to play it, but not under the circumstances we are forced into. So I along with many other people voice their opinion on this decision. I don't like it, so I post about it on the internet

Yes. But existing GW players paid for 4 slots already, buy another game that has four slots and only get 2 additional ones, still not being able to play all classes. We are currently trying to solve the puzzle why that is being done.

Case closed, Alcazanar solved all problems in the manner that nobody can argue with

indeed.

with a completely unverified rumor from an unnamed source

I understood just fine what he was saying. The problem I have with it is the assumption that somehow a player of Factions will only ever get to see 50% of the game's content. This seems to be a common assumption borne of the idea that all areas of the map will be controlled be either the Luxons or the Kurzicks, and that only players allied to the controlling faction will be allowed access to what that area offers. For some reason, people look over the fact that a player is not limited to one faction. You can play with the Luxons until you get tired of their content and then switch over to the Kurzicks. The little info ANet has given us would indicate that there is no limit to the number of times a player can switch which faction they're loyal to. Therefore, while content in Factions may not all be accessible at any single point in time, it is all accessible to any given player at some point if the player seeks it out.

It goes along with this idea that in a fashion similar to favor who controls the maps will be determined by PvP. That, at least, can be shot down now as a wrong assumption. Gaile herself has said that it will be both PvP and PvE which determines control of towns, which means that yes, PvE players will be able to aide their faction in taking over new towns. In fact, they'll be vital to the taking of new towns.

Therefore, the only content-limitations within Factions itself would appear to be the Elite Missions. At this point in time we have no idea how many of these there will be (for all we know, there could be as few as 2 or as many as 20). Nor do we know if they will be tied to which Alliance you are a part of or to which Faction you are a part of. Either way, complaining that your content is being limited on such sketchy info is absurd.


Also, if you want to argue that the merged account is losing out in terms of primary classes played in the game, you need to take into consideration that non-merged accounts are also losing out on content. Sure, they can have one of every primary class, however they will never have the full range of skills available for any class. Therefore, they will be limited in what builds they are able to play. Despite even the very best of ANet's efforts to balance the game, you can rest assured that at some point the equivalent of the 5-man SS green farming team will come out and that it is very likely to require skills from both chapters. How ANet will tackle such problems when the arise is anyone's guess, but overlooking the advantage that a merged account has in content on this note is silly.

If you look at it in terms of skills you will be able to earn on your accounts, and thus the different builds and experiences you can partake in, the picture looks like this:

Non-merged accounts:
4 character slots * 2 professions worth of skills * (40 core skills + 35 prophecies skills)
4 character slots * 2 proffessions worth of skills * (40 core skills + 30 factions skills)
total skills to play with: 1200

Merged accounts:
6 character slots * 2 professions worth of skills * (40 core skills + 35 prophecies skills + 30 factions skills)
total skills to play with: 1260

Its a very close margin, but the merged account still comes out on top.

I'd like to make it clear that I am in full support of enough additional character slots to cover one character of each primary profession. However, I feel the majority of the arguments complaining about being cheated out of content are childish or not at all well thought out. There's a very great difference between wanting more slots and feeling that you're somehow being cheated by not being given more.

I don't want my position to be misunderstood. I would love to have extra character slots. I don't feel we are entitled to them, however, and I certainly don't feel that we are being punished for merging our accounts rather than leaving them separate.

forget the math.

it is simply the old saying .

figures dont lie but liars figure.

what it boils down to is that if you have to have one of each primary with UAS and all the frills you will need 2 of each chapter which will leave 4 dedicated PVP slots as a bonus.

if you are not dedicated (obsessed) enough to go this route use 6 primaries and stop the massive i deserve it i paid for it so gimmie it team

Therein lies part of the problem I am talking about. It's the fact that content is locked out. This game WAS supposed to be designed for the casual player, but how are they supposed to play if there are areas, quests, and missions they can't access because of who controls what area? I may have mentioned here or in another thread that with favor, sometimes a week can go by before I am logged into the game at a time that America has favor. So what happens if there is a quest or mission I want/need to do but have to wait until a particular side has control in order to do it. With a limited amount of time to be in game, literally it could be a month or more before I get lucky enough to be logged in at a time when I can get to that quest or mission.

Now, as you said, PvE players can participate in this control - but how we are supposed to do it hasn't been clearly defined, at least as far as I have seen. A big beef around here is that PvE would have to do some type of PvP play in order to affect control. Now, I'm a PvEer who just happens to like doing some PvP as well. The majority of PvEers do not. So their option is to either partake of a play style they detest, or wait around twiddling their thumbs until enough PvEers who do like PvPing are logged in and participating in these control quests/missions.

There would be no possible way to link a normal quest to enabling one side to better gain control over a territory. At some point all PvEers will have either completed the quest, or ignored it because they simply do no want to complete it. At that point, that quest becomes useless to aiding any side in gaining control. Replayable PvP quests seem to be the only way that will help sides gain and maintain control.

A lot of this subject actually belongs in another thread, but the slot limitation gets down to the basic of how much content can we access without having to throw away or waste previous play time. My point in posting those figures is that never at any time during the game can a player access any portion of the 100% of the content that he may want to access because of the slot limitation and the favor/faction limitation. As I have said, I have posted several points on this issue on the original thread, and won't rehash the argument here, but I will say that in over 35 pages of posts, NOT ONE post was able to offer any VALID argument on why there should NOT be enough slots per primary class.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

50% locked would kill the Factions game, so I can't see that much locked out either. But subtract the character slots and you get even less content to play around with.
PvE have no way to alter or aid in the moving the boundries is the truth. The competitive missions are not PvE missions or quests, they are PvP-mini games where the players are pitted against other players for points, score or against the clock (assuming that is what we are watching in all the videos posted on the net so far). Much in the way sports are, Basketball comes to mind right now. Golf might be a better example, players test themselves vs the course while still trying to beat the other players. It's PvP no matter the spin, PvP isn't just killing other players. I spoke more in another thread about this already though, so I'll stop.
But what it gets down to is simple really and there has been no current Anet responce (other than fuzzy numbers that don't make since unless they are forced into place - squares don't fit into circle holes unless they are forced) that can explain:
1) Factions comes with four slots already, why not leave them at four?
2) Why limit the players ability to play all primary classes without losing hundred of hours on characters they've enjoyed and want to keep?
3) Why limit the players content further with lack of slots when the content being locked by PvP mini games limits them already?

Edit: Still asleep it seems... forgot to fix the /quote at the end of the post... meh

Not "valid" enough for you, perhaps. I've heard several reasonable explanations.

These boil down to:

Hidden cost to Anet for merging accounts. While no one can prove such a cost exists, that does not mean it doesn't.

Anet is Greedy. Sure, you don't like this argument, but it doesn't make it invalid. Anet wants people to buy more than one account to increase their revenue. Nothing wrong with that.


On the flip side, I have yet to see a "valid" reason why Anet would NOT give us 8 slots if there was no reason for them not to!

hi

i really, really, REALLY would appreciate it it you would add *IN MY OPINION* now and then instead of offering something like this as so factual and so obviously correct it does not ever need a qualifier.


next you throw out dire figures of 50% lockout

the quests in question in the controlled towns are (according to ANET) super hard and bonus not needed for the super elite for the tip of the hardcore segment of game players and theit casual target audience wont have a chance and IN MY OPINION will get on with the main course of the game and leave the habbanaros to the experts

These actually are not valid as in the previous thread, many stated that they wouldn't have a problem paying for extra slots, so that fact that Anet wants to make money is in truth not valid as we are willing to pay for the extra slots.

I guess I always assumed that one's post IS one's opinion and that fact would be so obvious (in my opinion) that it wouldn't need the "in my opinion" statement (in my opinion).

In regards to the % of playable content. I certainly don't expect 50% of the content to be locked on a permanent basis, but certainly, it's possible that one might only be able to access 50% of the content at any one time while they are playing due to the slot limitations and the Faction/Favor control system. My entire point was just to show that Anet's fuzzy math equation is really a complete falsehood as based just on the slot limitation, there is no way a player can access 100% of the content whether the games are merged or played as stand alone versions. Plus if your statement is correct, then Anet is limiting the content that can be accessed by its target audience through the game paramaters that they designed, therefore their 100% statement is a lie (in my opinion).

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

So, Odbrook, why do you think that Anet currently does not offer a way to get 8 slots? Are they just stupid?

Because that would be wrong and a PR nightmare. How will you explain to players that every other game that it competes with has no such limitation to begin with - let alone 'buy a lost program'

It 'nickle and diming' your community - especially the most loyal and hardcore.


Either way, the slot limitation is stupid limitation on the game. A big flaw IMO.

The most reasonable explaination is still ANet wants the money.