Why only 2 char slots?

Ugh. The mind boggles.

So 8 slots with access to only half the content is more valuable than 6 slots with access to approximately twice the content? That's fine...you're entitled to your opinion. It is in my opinion -- as well as, apparently, from what I've seen -- the opinion of most people in this thread (and other threads)...that you are wrong. A majority of the people who have taken part in this discussion -- again, by my own observation -- are of the opinion that 6 merged > 8 unmerged. You are in a minority (which is not to say being in a minority is wrong...but in this specific case, yes the minority is wrong). But you are allowed to believe whatever you want.

I have drank no Kool-Aid. I refuse to drink anyones Kool-Aid, ANet or otherwise, and prefer to remain independant in my opinions and reasoning. I am nobody's puppet. ANet has just as much a chance of pissing me off as making me happy. I'm just pointing out the illogical fallacies associated with your (and others') comment as quoted above.

Again, Factions is a standalone game. By definition, that means unmerged slots are the default. You are paying for unmerged slots when you buy either Prophecies or Factions. If, however, Factions was developed, not as a standalone game, but as an expansion...then would a merged account be the default. As an expansion, you would be required to own Prophecies. As it stands, you do not.

If you can refute any of this, please do so. I don't like to be wrong and only argue vehemently when I know I am right. If you can prove me wrong, I will gladly concede. But thus far, you (and well as anyone else) have failed to do so.

Yes, you are correct, in that, at least. You do lose 2 unmerged slots. There's the distinction that you are either missing or refuse to pay any attention to. The remaining 6 gain access to approximately twice the content...they have been upgraded...and the 6 merged slots are more valuable than the whole of the 8 unmerged.

If you want to get technical about it, when you merge, you lose all 8 unmerged slots. In return, you get 6 merged slots, each slot worth possibly twice as much as that of an unmerged slot. And you get to transfer the characters in your 4 old unmerged slots to the new merged ones, with 2 left open. So what you lose is the ability to only enjoy half the content with any 1 of 8 slots. That's all. You gain the ability to access all the content with 6.

OK. We'll need to reserve a signed copy for Buoyancy.

Agreed. Don't buy it. Please.

Agreed. And I should probably stop posting the same stuff over and over myself. It's all been said and explained many times before, by myself and others. There's just no reasoning with some people.

And, again, just to make sure everyone knows where I stand on the issue...I would prefer 8 merged slots instead of 6 merged slots. It would be nice to be able to play one of each profession. Thank you for your consideration, ANet.
^ Aaaaaah...professional and courteous!

I'm also paying for database storage space. Thus, I want all of the database storage space that I've paid for. What I don't want is absurd spin from Anet.

It's my duty as a consumer to complain.

You've fullfilled that duty. In spades.

Actually, if I were you, I would complain directly to Anet instead of spamming message boards in the vague hope you'll be listened to.

Agreed. You have that right, as do we all.

No, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I only argue when I believe (or know) myself to be right and the opposition is in every way wrong, because I hate to lose. That's not to say I've never been proven wrong, because, hey, everyone makes mistakes. However, if proven wrong, I always humbly concede. Life has taught me to not be so stubborn. And also a gracious loser. Although, I vastly prefer winning.

I don't have a poll to provide. I'd set one up, but it would be yet another rehash of the same old stuff that's already been said. Check the post regarding 'are you going to merged accounts' and count the posts of those who are going to merge. They vastly outnumber those who are not, because they believe merged accounts have a greater value than unmerged. It's that thread and the 2 regarding this slots issue where I draw my conclusions. You may want to reread them.

Anyway, I said I'd respond to proof that I am wrong, but right now I'm just responding to name-calling...there's no need for that. However, I concede nothing.

Our difference of opinion amounts to: I think a merged slot is more valuable than an unmerged slot, you think they are equal in value. There is no way to change either of our minds. Everyone places a different value on things, we are entitled to our own valuations. I think it would be best to drop the issue and agree to disagree.

here is an impartial observation on this


cut the personal attacks or feel the ban stick

There's no point arguing with Buoyancy, Eugaet. We'd probably be better off just ignoring him.

Duly noted.

actually I would love to more than 8 character slots, but not gonna cry about it. What these " I want 8 or i'm gonna quit cause I am getting screwed because I am losing 33% of the content" fail to realize the box says over 30+ character combinations.

currently there are 6 primary professions with each having the potential of having 5 secondary professions. which equal 30 different unique characters. But then you have the different potential build (hammer warrior, MM Necro, Fire Ele..etc) lets say 3 per class (3*30=90) So far that 90 potential slots thats needed for PVE alone but what about the other possibilities with having a primary but making that secondary be the build you want, (i.e. W/Ele Hydromancer) thats at least another potential 30 builds (90+30=120) plus you have to have for every PVE class you gotta have a PVP (120+120=240) thats for prophecies alone there is 240 possible combos at least. now add the 2 new characters (2 * 7 possible character secondaries = 14) then multiply by the average of 3 different specialties (14*3= 52) then you have the secondary specialties (52*3=156) then you cant forget the PVP slots (156*2= 312) to the original 240 = 562 possible combos at least that these morons arent thinking about and they are crying saying they are losing 2 slots.

To the people that think they are losing 2 slots by combining GW:P + GW:F , either complain that you are losing 556 character slots or shut up.

I know, it's just so hard to warp over to one of the desert towns to change my secondary class, not to mention all those minutes it takes to rearrange attributes and skills.

I think the problem is that people still think of Factions as an EXPANSION, which A-net has stated it is clearly NOT.

It is a stand alone game, thus, the ability to merge accounts is a privilege, and A-net pretty much gets to decide how many accounts they want to let us merge.

Its because they hate you...now shut up.

At least they love me and are giving me 6 slots.

4 slots + 4 slots = 8 slots
$50 + $50 =$100

So when
4 Slots + 4 Slots = 6 slots
shouldnt
$50 + $50 = $70

Ah duh...that’s like saying it’s made in America when it the tag reads made in Japan. Need more?
Need the proof here's the linkhttp://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-.../695508p1.html

What part of not an expansion pack do you not understand? It has to be the not part.

Well yes, if a slot was a slot. But, in this case, a merged slot is not an unmerged slot. ANet is basically saying that they believe a merged slot is worth more than an unmerged slot. It calculates out that a merged slot is costing the consumer $4.17 more than an unmerged slot (this is assuming you're just paying for slots and not the content). So giving full access to all available content (which could possibly be double the content available in Prophecies) is worth $4.17 per slot. Not a bad deal if we're paying $12.50 ($50/4) for each unmerged slot...that, of course, is my own opinion...I think it's a good deal. Not as good as 8 merged slots, to be fair, but better than 4 merged slots and that's a good value to me.

If Factions was an expansion and you were required to merged it with Prophecies, I would expect the $20 price point (or at least something below $50). I'd be surprised if it would have all the content ANet claims that Factions does for that $20, though.

I know its so hard understanding sarcasm, that you must be the only person on this forum that got it.

Sigh if I state agaisnt people that the earth is flat over and over and over and over again while only being able to see a small part of the earth at once. Then people will consider the earth to be flat.

If I then come and state that the earth is actually round, nobody is going to beleive me unless I come forward with the proof that it is round. Namely letting them see it from outer space.

Same thing with all this marketingBS from Anet, considering the game as a standalone product for everybody.

If you are using a chapterlike setup, that means that you can expect further chapters in which you can use your previous build up characters to go on and experience more of the story laid out i nthe previous chapters. Therefore this implies that chapter 2 expands your original game with its next chapter. And doesn't offer you an entirely new game... if that would have been the case then there would have not been a link with GW-P. And people would have called it GW2 in stead of GW-F

For GW-P owners GW-F is in fact an expansion while for first time buyers it is in effect a standalone game. They don't have to buy the previous chapter to enjoy their game, they can but they don't have to. So in effect ANET has just released it as a standalone product to make sure that new people don't have to buy the original GW before they can play. As to hook them to their game and buy future chapters and maybe even go back and buy previous ones. Although that isn't their real vision. They just want to get more people hooked to buy future chapters so that they can keep paying their staff for future content and keep inceasing their profit for their investors(their serverspace and bandwidth was already payed for with GW-P). Why would GW-P consider it an expansion and not a standalong product, because GW-F contains skills for which the GW-P person already payed for and therefore if merging wouldn't need any more. On top of that they already have access to all the classes to which factions gives acess to with the exception of 2. On top of that like evidenced by ANET themselves, GW-F uses the graphics engine from GW-P for which you bet ya GW-P users already payed for. All these factors would make any sane person conclude that for every return buyer GW-F is in fact an expansion to hteir orignial game in stead of a complete new game. It only offers other and more flexible options for the stuff they already had in stead of something completely new. A warrior in pvp is still a warrior in pvp no matter if you are playing in cantha or in tyria. While if I play a warrior in dungeonsiege 1 or in dungeosiege 2 this is entirely different.

Actually that is incorrect because they keep reffering you to their fansites to post your comments on. Knowing that in there, there will always be people that are so blinded by passion for the game who would beleive everything ANET stated and would protect it with fervor even if the proof would hit them in the nuts. Exactly as the church claimed the world to be flat well into the 20th century...

hi class

some people have confusion on math class so lets try geography instead.

we have 3 different scenic tours available of the United States

tour 1 gives you complete access for a group of 4 people to all of the west from the ocean east to the Mississippi River.

our other tour gives the group of 4 complete access to the entire east from that ocean all the way west to the Mississippi River.

these tours are self contained and include a complete fun experience in different varied places and adventures.

you can purchase both of these tours and use your ticket on either side of the Mississippi River but be warned that the tours are run by two different offices and neither will help you with baggage, funds, etc from the other tour.

or you can purchase our deluxe combined package which has both offices working together to make the best tour possible.

as a bonus we will allow you to have a party of 6 instead of only 4

like a moth to a flame, Lovitiar and his (ill)logic come again...

but then he just linked his brain to another fanboy (to share gaming experiences) and each lost 1/4 of their brain tissue losing a lobe each, and unfortunately it was the one providing math and reason.



edit - I'm a fan of a moderator closing the thread myself

loviatar that is an incorrect statement. it would be more like this:

There are 3 tours to roam europe.

tour 1 is from the borders near russia till the borders of France for 4 people (for 50$)

While the second tour contains the a tour from spain till the borders of the netherlands for 4 people.(50$)

Now we offer you a tour that spans entire Europe for 100$ for 6 people. Oh but guess what because we are offering you all this at once we will take away the double visit to the borders between france and the netherlands (it contains Belgium since you don't need that anymore anyway). You forgot to put in the overlap that we would have if combining prophecies and factions which is 1 of the main reasons why people are complaining about it at all... Not to mention that we have never heared of the marketingploy to make people spend more money by offering 3 for the price of 2...

Fair enough. But people like Buoyancy are just being rude...

well, there's no real point talking to them.

Duty != right.

ps anti-fanboys are just the same as fanboys! yo pot sup OH MY GOD YOU'RE BLACK

Yeah and threads like this and the petition are doomed by those who just can't quit it.

I find it sooo interesting so many have to poke their head into a thread they disagree with anyways. We're told to come to the fansites to air any issues, we do, and we get inundated with new math troll-ers when we go ahead and do so.

That's great if you've swallowed the company line, hook-line-and-sinker.
If you've been keeping up they're regularly changing that line (1 slot, 2 slot, CE hope, wouldn't be fair for more than 2, wait we might charge you for it...).

As it stands some of us are still stuck against the wall. If you can't see it so be it, let it go lol. We still only have the forums to try and find an answer to it. Turns out ANet might be happy to (re-)charge us for (those) slots after all. Some of us may disagree with it but at least now there would be a linked solution for a slot or few (for anyone returning I think you'll agree unlinked = garbage, you willing to be stuck in a single chapter).

Instead of being left with 'not only will we short you, we won't let you buy a solution.'
Because buying a second account + chapters forever, particularly when you're already buying multiple copies + chapters for a household = that much cheaper just to go to a real MMORPG with a monthly fee. I know some people are doing this... I like GW and I'm in deep, but I'm not that hardcore.

And I think spending $100 every chapter for my wife and I should be enough, and I'll even add a little for a slot or two for myself if need be - once.

I don't think I should have to but at least that'd be an option to consider. As I previously stated had CE given us a slot I would have bought that, instead I'm still waiting for ANet to give us their (new and improved) master plan. It's certainly still legitimate to argue they're milking it (I think they are) but at least they'd show more honest colors (money) rather than a poorly conceived model and a suggestion of player advantage.

On the flipside, Ckaz, there are now three active threads complaining about Slots. Three.

Think of it this way: the "fanboys" arguing that the slots aren't a big deal are keeping these threads alive, and in Anets field of view (if they're looking in, which I'm sure they are...)

I don't agree 100% with ya, but nice post.

Oh, I don't disagree with the thread or the idea that 8 merged slots is better than 6 merged slots. I'd love 8 merged slots! I just disagree with the one specific reasoning used to justify receiving 8 merged slots. If you want something, you should provide a well-thought reason why you think you deserve it. 4+4=8 has so far proven not to be it. I want a petition for 8 merged slots to succeed because I, and everyone else, benefits. But to be taken seriously and have a good chance at getting what you want, you need a reason with near irrefutable logic. You still might be turned down, but at least you weren't trying to bend numbers to get your way.

Again, it all boils down to how much value someone places on the content. Those who don't think that access to both the contents of Prophecies and Factions are equal in value to access to only one or the other from one slot will feel that 6 merged is a lesser value than 8 unmerged. It's getting to be a moot point, with one side failing to grasp logic and the other not willing to reject logic. And everyone thinks it's the other side that is failing to grasp the logic. So it doesn't matter. Agree to disagree and move on.

BTW, the brain tissue analogy...well, isn't a good one. Basically it's stating the same thing as the previous chocolate bar and hard drive analogies, just with different words, and is just as incorrect when applied to merging. Brain tissue = brain tissue, orange = orange.

Person A and person B go to a store and buy GW:F. Have they bought the same product?

But, wait, person B already owns GW:P. Did they still buy the same product in purchasing GW:F?

Good point.

Mordaki - search has been flaky, but agreed, I've asked in the past and continue to ask for some of these threads to close. But the petition one a guy was working on (I forget where now lol) was a good example, it wasn't meant to be a debate thread but those on the other side of the argument basically had those of us interested giving up on the thread (myself included).

I like your twist though lol umm so do you guys want thanks for your objections?

Rollntider - thanks, I don't look for 100% agreement, it's just tiring when some posters can't even recognize how such an issue can arise and how the model won't work for some people. So I let myself get drawn in again now and then lol.

Eugaet - I thought the brain tissue analogy was as good or better than Lovitiar's trip I haven't gone 4+4=8 for awhile as I understand simple math escapes some but I'd love you to argue how our linking $ covering slot storage isn't enough vs those who don't link and at the same cost, as they sound like they're considering selling us more slots now.

I could easily argue to you I'll be able to do less in the new continent bring my characters over - sure I get a quicker leg up, but if I want to keep my characters don't I have less ability to engage in all the content from level 1 on up in Cantha? And yes I would like to go through their 'pre-sear' a few times, as all reports point to it certainly is a bigger experience going through more of the levels (15?). I'd also like more of those slots to go through that area with my wife - lo and behold I'd have to create a new character there (if it works like pre-sear) to go through with her.

And Eugaet, no offense but I'd suggest you move on from the thread.
I'm still watching/waiting to see if they offer up more slots now as they're backpedalling once again, so I have a vested interest - to find out if I *am* moving on or not. Honestly once again, I'm not sure what attracts all of you here. I'm waiting to make a game decision (again, because the story may be changing, again). What are you waiting on here?

So I say to you I DO agree to disagree, but I'm still going to buzz around these threads to get an important answer. I'd similiarly suggest to all of you trying to prove how our logic is faulty on whether we're in a bind or not to agree to disagree, and move on for the love of all.

Because I know why I'm here - it effects if and how I can play.
But I can't understand why all of you still are.
Now THERE'S something that demands explaining over analogies and how 4+4 doesn't equal 8.

Yeah, I realize that threads devolving into arguments are beyond our control. Of course, the very fact that so many threads become "slot debates" is proof enough to me that it's a serious issue for many people.

You don't need to thank me (although it couldn't hurt)

Honestly? I'm here because I'm bored. I know that's a horrible reason to post, but I enjoy the discussion, and am in fact interested in how the slot issue pans out.

It's quite hilarious how the people claiming Factions is a stand-alone game wouldn't dream of playing it as a stand-alone game.

It's also quite hilarious how people (on both sides) get so hung up over pointless math when math has no bearing at all on the slot issue. Gaile created a monster.

I'd also like to point out that ANet is quite accurately aware of how many people bought multiple accounts. IP addresses that play on more than one unique account on a regular basis? Those are people who bought multiple accounts, give or take an insignificant few that would fall into or out of that number because of complications like using dynamic IP, people sharing a connection, etc. If these numbers (which we can only guess at) are formidable enough for ANet to continue to limit the slots in order to sell more duplicates:

a) We'll never have accounts big enough to hold one character of each primary
b) We'll never get a satisfying explanation from ANet because that's an explanation they'd never allow out in the open.

Since b) seems to be holding true so far, I'm afraid a) might be the case, which is why I won't be buying Factions. I might at some time in the future if the slot thing gets addressed to my satisfaction, but for now, I'm not going to buy into what might well be a hopeless situation.

Actually if i had my say so and I won't be ridiculous as i have in my previous posts. But I would actually give the people who merge accounts an extra slot or 2, than by being stand alone.

While I don't mind the 6 total for merged accounts, i do think Anet could benefiet more by doing this formula

4 slots for prophecies + 4 slots for factions = 9 slots merged. This would encourage the people getting factions only to buy prophecies. They would in turn get an extra character goof around with. And with each chapter merged you maintain 1 extra slot.

Now let me say I dont think Anet is stupid or screwing anyone. I just think it would have lured the faction only player to buy prophecies, even if he never plays it, he would want it to gain the extra slots. It would also keep the pissed off fan base down. Of course you will have some idiot that whines he needs 10 slots per chapter, but 99.9% of us here would be content with 8 slots. I also think the extra slot would lure people who arent interested in prophecies to get it just to get that extra build.

Doing this would also actually reward the loyal customer. Lets say I have prophecies, 4 Slots (6 playable professions)
Factions, 4 slots (2 new professions)
Chapter 3, (lemmings edition ) 2 slots (2 new professions)
Chapter 4 (Back to the future), 2 slot (2 new professions)

thats 12 professions I have linked my accounts and can have 12 slots, but since I own all 4 chapters I gain an extra slot for each chapter I own for loyalty. I can then have 16 slots to play 12 professions. I think that would be a more suitable bussiness model.

If i owned 3 of the 4 I would have
4 slots (for the core set of slots)
+ 2
+ 2
__
8 +3 (for owning 3 of the 4) = 11 slots

you can adjust for chapter 6 etc..or only owning 2....

Lets face it, I doubt I would ever PVP, I would love to create a female and a male ritualist and assasin. But i aint gonna use up 2 extra slots for that. I also want to have an extra necro (for that different look than my original) that can be set up for a N/Rt and I can have a N/Mo without having to change.

Let me say this, I dont hate Anet, i don't think they are evil, i don't think they want to screw anyone. I just think they are looking at it differently than me.
I disagree with the 6 slots, but I have accepted it.

We have a difference of opinion on what analogies pertain, as well as who is having trouble with simple math.

OK, well, let's forget for a minute that you're paying for 4 unmerged slots per chapter, not 8 total merged slots across both chapters. Let's just forget about any conceived value of the total content at all. If you are paying only for storage space, I see no reason why $100 couldn't pay for 8 database storage records, one way or another. I doubt adding GW:F to your account would change the space taken up by one chars record at all...except for maybe an insignificant flag that says this specific char can go to Cantha (although that flag is probably in your account record, not a char record). ANet is placing a greater value on slots that are given access to both continents. You do not place a greater value on slots that are given access to both continents. That is why 4+4=8 works for you and the content is irrelevant. So it's not like I haven't seen the point anyone was trying to make all along.

Yeah, I've already mentioned that fact...came up with it myself, in fact...somewhere back in...one of these threads. That's why I'm careful to say approximately twice the content. Because until I play through the content of Factions, all I have to go off of is ANet saying that there is twice the content. You'll only be able to go through one or the other tutorial area, not both. That's a fairly decent chunk of content.

I'm jealous. Any pointers you can give me so I can convince my wife to play?

No offense taken...you have yet to call me names (I think...). I'm hanging around in hopes that ANet does give a response, a justification for only 6 slots that can lay the issue to rest once and for all...or the news that we are going to get 8 merged slots.

Agreed. And I never argued that you weren't in a bind. I'm still going to hang around, too. Surely, something'll come of this.

I like it. Those who merge get all their slots converted to merged slots and you get a bonus one for being a repeat customer. Awesome.

Crap...you just made me realize I could use 16 merged slots...

CKaz: You say they are looking into the extra slots issue? Is this true? I don't follow everything guildwars, but how do you know? I would love to know this is true. If it takes bitchin' and moanin' to get extra slots, then sign me up Seriously I hope this is good news, at least they are willing to listen to the fans.

Eugaet: I always wanted a female necro, but never could stand her dance. While i hardly dance, if i am AFK I always use the dance emote as a screen saver. I prefer looking atthe ladies when I play. they are much better to look at IMO. But If I had a slot to Burn I would probably have 3 or 4 different necro builds, because I dont want to change my secondary. Once i build a character, i hate to remove things from them.

Agreed. All my chars are female. So maybe I don't need those 16 slots, after all...

Holy... I never even took into account Male and Female versions of each...

after all, we're missing out on content (dances and armor) by being limited by our sex.

Anet - give us the ability to change sex, or give us 16 slots! I demand it.

(am I being sarcastic? Kind of... and kind of not.)

Rollntider: Don't like the Thriller dance?!? That's... blasphemy.

carefully, subtly checks out all available exits and chooses the window to dive out as the safest option

In that case I would need 32 slots, one for each profession male and female 16 for PvE and 16 PvP. Better make it 224 slots that way I can one of everythying.

I did but my nose started rotting and my character starting grabbing her crotch with one glove **ewww**

lol, this is just too funny, we have math, geography, tours to other countries with the fair (does that include a tip in that price?)..

as to the original op. WHY ONLY 2 CHARACTER SLOTS..

because thats what Anet, said/want end of story. Is that hard to figure out. we have rehashed this on other numerous threads not only here but on gwonline.net.. i mean come on.. if your not happy with it, deal with it or don't. if you don't wanna merge don't, if you do, do.

now since we've had some high school classes, to refresh our math addition, and some geography, why don't some of you throw in some science, or history into your calculations as to the 6 / or 8 slots, i'd be curious as to see what you can come up with, and how many pages this redicilous post goes.

Don't forget grocery shopping.

...page 9.

World is harsh sometimes I guess...
In the world of business, unless consumers smarten up, consumers are always the victim(just in my opinion).

As Gli mentioned earlier...
I don't see why some people uses following equation to reason the issue.
(4*50)+(4*50)=400
6*100=600

Let's say we consider this a "holy equation"...
Yeah...numerical 600 is bigger than 400. No biggie there.

Let's consider the first plan then
(4*50)+(4*50)=400
first plan: 5*100=500

Numeric 500 is obviously bigger too.
As a consumer...did we had any right to dare complain 1 slot wasn't enough?
According to our "holy equation" we are still getting more, aren't we?
Then why did we, as consumer, complained 1 slot wasn't fair?

I'm not trying to say ArenaNet is right or consumer is right.
What I'm trying to say is this (4*50)+(4*50), (6*100) equation may not be the valid reason for this issue..."especially" if you were the person who complained 1 slot wasn't enough.