The Factions Update- Things You Weren't Impressed With

Being a 99% pve'er, I'm finding the pvp missions very tough - the 12 v 12 just seems like total chaos and when you try and stop and ask people "what am I supposed to be doing?" you get the habitual "noob" comments coming back. I admit, I rage quit last night coz I hadn't a clue what was going on

I also agree on the waiting times as well - 20 minutes to get in a mission is way too long.

And Ele's and MM's have a major boost in 12 v 12 - armies of like 30+ minions cannot be beaten and Ele's just pound on groups battling over shrines etc.

Can't fault the pve side though. Amazing scenery to explore and tough mobs although I would imagine a brand new player would find alot of the pve side very very tough...no easy Ascalon introduction's here!!

So a general thumbs up although I'm not too sure if it will entice alot of new players to go out and get Factions due to the learning curve.

Rich

I had 10k for Luxon and 7k Kurzick and couldn't access the Kurzick merchants. This meant exploring, mapping to a merchant, selling/buying, returning, picking up henchies again (as some players didn't have my friendly cities yet so other players were not a good option). Waste of time.

What I find funny is the need for faction farming. Once all the PvE quests are done, there's nothing left to do but PvP and PvP mini games to get that faction. Faction points are needed in everything, from armor materials to alliance standing. Those focused on competition and standing may end up feeling slighted by fellow alliance members that spend their faction points on armor stuffs rather than helping the alliance move the borders around.

Also, the PvP mini games (competitive missions) are worse than I thought they would be. Not only can one not enter with friends, but one must wait for a long time to even try it. I have a feeling (and it's speculation at this point) that these missions will be ghost towns after a while. Pure PvEers want little or nothing to do with these PvP mini games, and after seeing what I have seen so far, are throwing their hands up in frustration, rage quiting the battles, heading back to Chapter one to farm since faction point farming is the only way to get to the actual game content (PvE missions).

The couple of times I tried the Jade Quarry mission, I sat for over an hour waiting. Not fun. I left EQ cause of the sitting and waiting for groups. So, why would I sit and wait here? When I did get in, I was screamed at by what I guess were seasoned PvPers (yea, I suck at PvP, I despise it, I loathe the "feel" of the game - but thought I would give it a shot), so I dropped from group. This happened twice in a row. One hour, two missions, several "jerks" and nothing gained other than a worse taste in my mouth for the whole experience.

I could run around quest hunting all the time, but why? Guildies (pure PvEers as well) went back to Chapter one to farm more gold so on the occasion an area is availble they can rush in and buy the armor they want from Cantha. This doesn't seem much like a stand alone game, rather a graphic addon for us PvEers. I once said $20 and maybe I would buy it, now, after this weekend $9.99 would be pushing it. Like I said, farm for cash in Chapter 1, check for needed town in Cantha to be open, map there, purchase or do mission if open, then leave.

I'll stick with my descision not to buy Factions. It's a well thought out PvP game with PvE sprinkled on top for sales. But as it is, the PvE is way to restricted; merchants not wanting money? mission access locked till x faction points are gained? Not for me, I'll wait for Chapter 3 and hope for some real game play, some smarter foes rather than just sheer numbers of strength something to actually do rather than gain points (ala 1980s arcade games).

Yeah, Guest. It is worse than I too thought it would be. I couldn't use merchants in either side because I happened to have the same faction for both. This problem is especially compounded because faction is at the account level and not at the character level -- so it's not even like you can play one side's missions with one character and another side's with a different one. It's all PvP.

EDIT: Looking at other threads, even the PvPers are complaining... because PvEers are forced into PvP and all the like.

You have access to the merchants of whichever faction you currently have higher standing with. That is unspent faction. If the two are tied things get a little wonky but that should be cleaned up before release.

If you want to have access to the vendors from the other faction, spend all of your faction with one side, zeroing out your faction with both, then do a single mission for the new side. That should give you access to the vendors and other faction-dependent NPCs.

Peace,
-CxE

Yes that is a MAJOR problem with the current system.

Had you folowed the posted instruction that is RIGHT by your login window:

And left the loging screen up while you slept, they live streamed all the area's to you and preloaded them. So you didn't have to decompress a thing.

Decompress != download.

Am I the only person that hates Ritualists, at least in PvP?

I used to think Ranger trap skills slowed the game down too much, now it seems they made an entire CLASS around the same idea: One team throws out a bunch of spirits and then they go "you come to us," and the other team goes "nuh-uh, YOU come to US." It drives me nuts because it just turns into a game of who gets bored of sitting around and leaves their advantageous location first.

On the plus side, it makes Elementalist area damage skills more useful in that you can take down a number of spirits with just a few fireballs, but all the Rit has to do is move them all a few yards apart and it is back to the same thing.

I hated traps, and now I hate Ritualists even more. It is to the point that I can't stand PvP unless I build a specifically Ri-killing character for those situations.

Thus far the imbalance in the paths to the two northern battle areas is very frustrating. Playing the Luxon side, I practically could run to the areas solo. On the Kurzick side, I barely was able to get to JQ with a full party - still haven't made it to FA yet. Plus the overwhelming numbers of creatures you end up facing is just rediculous. There's absolutely no strategy involved when you end up being outnumbered 3 or 4 to one. Fighting "war of attrition" battles is very frustrating, and the repetativeness gets boring rather quickly.

Even doing a little PvP myself, I may be more used to the pace of the areans, but I have to agree with another post - it's just utter chaos with little direction on where to go, even with team leaders trying to point the way - if they're off the mini-map, it's pointless. Plus, there's absolutely no indication of which side has more "favor" than the other in the arenas, so you have no idea how close your side is to taking over the area, or loosing it.

So far, at this weekend is winding down, I am thus far still not overly impressed with what I have seen. Far too much eye candy and not enough substance.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowlege * Peace

A few comments:
1.) Here are the semi-confusing rules in regards to the factions:

Basically, when you do missions for either side, you earn faction with them. Whichever side you have LESS faction for, will stop talking to you.

This means several things - firstly, you will be unable to use merchants or the like in enemy outposts. Secondly, there are guards positioned at the rez points closest to outposts in explorable areas, and the rez point will not activate for you unless you either bribe or kill the guards.

It will probably be easiest, when playing through the campaign upon release, to concentrate all of your effort on one side first, complete all the missions, and then spend all your faction before switching to the other. Spending your faction is the easiest way to clear yourself so that you can switch sides, as it will be removed from your character - but it also removes a portion of the other sides faction at the same time, as a result of your show of loyalty to their enemy.

2.)As for Assassins and Ritualists, I have come to the general conclusion, that Assassin and Ritualist both make better secondaries than primaries.

The assassin primary gets "Critical Strikes", but the increased armor of Warrior, or the energy saving "Expertise" of a Ranger may make a more effective assassin. The "Shadow" skills alone of an assassin may make for a popular secondary.

The Ritualists primary "Spawning Power" allows for stronger minions to spawn, but Mesmers "Fast Casting" could spawn them faster, and Monks and Necros could keep them alive longer.

3.) I found it annoying that every mob we fought usually had 6 or 7 "Spirits" which are more distracting when you are tabbing to find your next target.

4.) Could Henchies be used in the PvP missions when there is a shortage of humans? Thats what happens when you do the PvP mission just before pre-sear. Also making teams 12x12 dramatically increases your chances that people will drop out. Maybe if there are not enough players that the teams could be finished with henchies, and if a member of one team leaves for any reason, the opposing team loses a henchie.

Not sure what the fix is, but definitely something that will need some work.

5.) Speaking of Henchies, in Chap 1, the fighter henchies were usually the most effective, and 2nd most necessary after the healer/protector henchies. I've found with playing the henchies in Factions that it is the ranger henchies (especially the longbow henchie) that are the most effective.

6.) Some of you are complainging about the skipping around the map and the lack of PvE missions. I assume that the first teleport jumped over the 1 to 20 leveling zones, and they would rather not allow PvE missions until the full commercial release. I think it is important to take the word "preview" seriously. This weekend no doubt only provided maybe 10% of the total content.

I spent the weekend trying out different builds, deleting and creating characters out of my 1 empty character slot, to see the new costumes, scenery, skills, bad guys etc. I had no interest in doing more than a few missions, knowing that I'll have to do it all again when the game goes live officially.

Ariane brings up a good point, and WasAGuest mentioned this problem. Thus far, it has been extremely frustrating to: first try to get into a PvP mission - especially FA, then have a lot of people on one side leave as their side is loosing. Plus, the fact that guilds can't form the alliances for alliance battles this weekend doesn't allow us to get any feel for this mechanic at all - not a good thing considering this is a major part of the new chapter and one that may be make or break for people deciding whether to buy it or not.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS: plus these arena maps are so big, that it's hard to tell where your needed, or where the least defended capture point lies. Once you are killed and sent to another rez point, you have no clue where your teammates are or your team leader is. There needs to be an option that allows you to view the entire arena on the map without having to constantly resized the mini-map.

Plus, these arenas are going to turn out to be a haven for Minion Necros - I lost count of how many times my team has been overrun with minions, and basically has to spend the rest of the mission running around like idiots until they all died (if we didn't loose first).

until I see punishments for ragequitters, i won't even think about buying the game.

I sooo enjoy picking fights with them though

As for Fast Casting benefitting Rit spells, it does not work that way (at least it didn't in the January preview, I haven't tried this time). Most of those ritualist skills are not "spells" but "rituals." Fast casting did NOT effect those 8 second casting time spirits and such. Pissed me off, since I am a Mesmer fanboy.

Then there also needs to be a punishment for cursing, screaming, tantrum throwing and general acting like my 3 year old child when one dies. Sorry, but punishing people for leaving after hearing some fool scream or call other team members names or being generally rude is just wrong. I left out of frustration twice cause of the jerks I got stuck with. It would be completely unethical for Anet to punish people for stepping out of such situations.
I realise there are people who drop out just for losing, but consider the players that are now getting into these games.

1) Will quit if they don't have an ideal team.
2) Will quit if they fall behind*
3) Will quit when they feel a loss is nearing*
4) will quit if they re-meet someone that was a jerk earlier

* These players are going to be heavily PvEers (like me) that feel some of competitive missions are a hurdle in the way of getting faction points. Yes, there are other ways to get them, and they are more effective, but once those quests are done.. what then? So, time being a concern, these players will drop and rejoin to quickly get what they desire.
Pure PvEers are a whole breed different than most people think they are. It's not about the challenge, the competition or the points. It's about the gear and everything in between is in the way and will be bypassed, skipped over, or used to get it. Any loss or waste of time for these players will be considered a major annoyance. They are not playing for the skill thrill, or the rush of it, they are playing to gain that item they want, or that mission that pits them against some massive monster that gives them a good beating.
Anet can push the PvP onto the PvEers, but the PvEer will remain the same player, and that doesn't always mesh well with PvPers.

I personally fit into the last three, probably because I haven't the foggiest idea what would be considered a ideal group in PvP... nor do I really care to find out either, especially after this weekend.

I tried the beta some this weekend and I was not overly impressed.
the graphics were nice, and I too did like the tigers, they were neat and moved very well.
I played an assassin first go round and forgot to look and change my skill lists, but was pretty satisfied with the 1-2-3 combo they had set up, it dealt some nice damage.
I then joined up with my buddy I sent an invite to, and I played a tank ( gotta love tanks) and he had an assassin.
we ran around and had some fun but did not get too far.
Call me a noob if you wish, I just started prophecies a few weeks ago, so two noobs ran around with henchies and did . . . ok not great.
I have read this entire thread and must agree with sentiment from the PvE'ers (like myself) dont force PvP on me!
Like WasAGuest said . . PvP'ers are a different breed from the PvE'ers and the two dont mesh well when forced to play together.
I did not like the fact that the merchants and vendors "dont like you" . . I battled my way there and then got told to take a hike!! that is BS
I went to both places, the Luxons and Kurzicks and liked the look of the Luxons much better . . the giant sea turtles were cool .. . but the "easy" kill the nagas quest! geez o petes! those nagas are way tough!
Had to agree with the person that said the henchies are too agressive . . the kept aggroing on the next group to my annoyance, not giving me a chance to assess things before moving on. Also hated all the "spirits of____" things, just plain annoying, who ever heard of a plant conjuring up spirits!

So Anet . . make this alot more PvE freindly and I may buy it . . but as it stands . . a PvP module . . . I will keep my money for something else.

Justis Guy
W/E 14
made it to the frost gate! hurray!

I think anet shouldnot forse pvers or rpg players to pvp!

Wrong.

Decompress = Decompress

Download = Download

My machine had to decompress files that downloaded for Factions when I visited the areas. I did not have to download anything during that time.

All downloading was done during the inital streaming process when it was left at the log in screen a week before then.

Beak of Darkness? I spent 2 days on that damn thing. Totally stupid, annoying quest.

To recap the thread: faction points = failure.

the kurzick healing henchman having purge signet.

thats worse than alessia having healing touch. (great skill...exceedingly poor when weilded by the ai though)

please, PLEASE, replace it. even with something useless. just stop her from using it!

Did I say download? My bad.

For future referance...all updates will live stream to you...leave your loging screen up while you sleep and you will never have to decompress anything....as I said before.

If your still confused about this, which I am sure you are...there is a "news" screen to the right of your log in information. Scroll down it, until you see the posted news item I am talking about.

And for further reference: Downloading and decompressing are two completely different operations. You first download something, then it decompresses on installation.

Download =
Transferring data (usually a file) from one computer to another.

Decompress=
Expand a file that has been made smaller using a compression utility.

during a Live Stream,(the amazing tech behind bit torrents and ANET's ablility to give us a game with NO weekly matenice like other games have. ) All of this was done for you while the login screen was up. It downloaded the files, decompressed them, and preloaded them. [assumming you were still connected to the network of course].

(sorry about the miscommunication, english is not my first language.)

Correct me someone?

I as I understand it this system will be more like FFxi (Final Fantasy 11 Online) not WoW (World of warcraft).

Meaning the controling factions of the towns and outposts are determined by a combonation of the faction gathered by the PvE and PvP of each side, then determining who holds the :
City, town, province, or territory?

Or will it be like WoW where each town is always in control of it's founding faction: For example the outpost Tanglewood Copes(sp?) will always be under Kurzick controle?

The purpose of tis is to keep each side doing PvE and PvP for a combined score that outweighs the others side in order to hold their land.

Right?

The new faces, some of the ugliest faces I have seen on a new game.

See that word up there? Patronizing? Don't do it. There's no call for that crap.

Of course I know where the news is. Of course I listened to it and left my client running at the login screen overnight. I STILL had to decompress (not download) about a thousand files at the first couple zones, lessening with each area thereafter.

I had the same probablems. I actually got to Jade Quarry in like 2 hours after the FPE started. There's a tough group of Dredge guarding a bridge...you can go around however.

And for Ft. Aspenwood, I kept on dying. Then I went a different way and made it there without difficulty. After you went up the stairs, you can turn left, and there's a huge group with two Gardeners (eww), or there's a little door you can go through and wait and take those groups one at a time.

Forgive me for not just stooping directly down and saying "insert your own expletive combination here"....It's not my style.

I'm allergic to stupid I can't help it.

Only rather than sneezing when it comes near...education rushes out of my mouth at high speed.

I'll refrain from trying to help in the future.