Oh heck. Assassins. (Mesmer thread.)

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Apr 2006 at 20:29 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Elite skills. Clearly doubt they will ditch their precious elite for this.

Just pointing out a theme in assassin skills. Whether or not they'll use this as they're elite remains to be seen, but the idea is that they have away around energy denial. This and other more conditional skills make it possible to start from zero energy and still make a nasty run at a spike. Again, I'm not saying it will work 100% of the time, but timing is everything right?

Quote: Originally Posted by hella good Hex... they cannot even adequately cover up hexes... please... Even if we assume they can, our buddy here is bragging about putting 13 points in CS. Inbetween his daggers, CS, shadow arts, AND deadly arts, his points are going to be spread very very thin. My arguements are my own. And I'm not driving at debating anyway, I just thought I'd open up the discussion with some skill descriptions.

And while a single Assassin may not be able to completely cover his own hexes, he won't be alone. And a skillfully played combo may not need to cover it for long, the point is it's there, and its a way around.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hella Good Ok... I'm no Ele... nevermind the cause-Exhaustion attack. You don't have to have exshaustion for this to work. It's an 'or' statement. Close range it's not that hard to hit at least one of your spells with an interrupt.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hella Good And... you think I will be sitting there blinded for 30sec? If we assume this to be an useful skill we might as well start shaking about the Shadow Sig. I'm sure the Monk is taking a cigarette break. They have a number of skills that cause blindness. This wouldnt' be that hard to pull off. And again, timing is everything. If the monk has been responding to pressure from a cripple shot/poison ranger, then it's not unlikely that the assassin will have a chance to get this combo off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

*sigh*ok, and? You can strike every one in awhile through blindness and certain hexes, that concerns us how? Idea is that distortion, a premium mesmer skill, one widely accepted and used to hold off warriors, and one that's been refrenced many times to point out why mesmers will have no problem with Assassins will not always work against them. The assassin doesn't have to bypass it long. That's the 'and?'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

This is actually a decent attack but one of the few. Plus it has 12 sec recharge, so it won't be landing on you non-stop. Idea here is that there are a 'few'. There is more to consider than merely dodging or tossing empathy. Since an assassin seems to be based on a attack/retreat concept. Attacking through empathy may even be possible.

Quote: Problably CasterHate but remplacing Mesmers, I dont think so (I see your word possibly in Italic just in case). You see, if every Mesmers becomes Assassins, for example, there will be like...... 4-5 in melee and 3-4 in range. It gives an offensive team oriented and much stress for monk to always heals. Thats why mesmers are casters, to stay behind and be safe (Before telling about shadows steps, I dont want to know. I know what you're thinking too).

About hybrids
Ritualists are hybrid of Necro, Ele and Monk. Got remplaced Monks and Necro? I dont think so too.

Off course, both Lyssa's professions in duo will be insane. But how many do you think about when it will come popular? This gonna be the same and old routine until Chapter 3: Deception comes out (Just Kidding Anet

).

Just in case. Yes I will do an Assassin when Factions comes out and No, and I wont, about remplacing Mesmers to Assassins. If they got remplacing, they're will be useless, same thing for Warriors and necromancers. This will be the same things with Ritualists.

Another things: Hella Good..... Siren, please, no more Neverending War-Thread Duo! If you want to talk each other and argue, find something, somewhere else. Like Max had said, I want to return back to the normal thread with no flaming, trolling, arguing and slapping each other!

Edit: And if one of you want to talk to me personally without everyone want to know (afraid of flaming and others reasons), send me a message. Im always glad to try to help you (even with my poor english, I can do it). I can't always answer but at least, its a worth try about this thread.

Stay neutral everyone

-Malin-

LightningHell

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Join Date: Aug 2005

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Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 23:49 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Yes, and I guarantee you that Assassins do energy management even better than Ether Prodigy

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Just a thing, after this attack, bye Way of the Fox.
Right, one attack is enough to knock you down, interrupt you, remove a stance, remove an enchant, etc. One attack may be all they need to get a combo off. That's a very big thing Fancis.

I'm not trying to take the assassin side in the arguement that's ongoing in this thread, I just want to get back to the original theme. I don't believe we'll be able to counter Assasin's using the normal warrior-hate themes. I think we have to treat them more like...a mesmer or a ranger.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 21:41 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max

They have a number of skills that cause blindness. This wouldnt' be that hard to pull off. And again, timing is everything. If the monk has been responding to pressure from a cripple shot/poison ranger, then it's not unlikely that the assassin will have a chance to get this combo off. Or for that matter, another Assassin pressuring the Monk. The likelihood of seeing two Assassins on a team in 8v8, one targeting the Monk(s) and the second targeting other spellcasters, is quite high. If the Monk-Killer Assassin is specced appropriately, that Monk will have to concentrate more on saving his own skin than taking an easily renewed Blind off of a Mesmer.

There's an interesting chance of Assassins becoming the prime CasterHate...possibly even replacing Mesmers. And if there's an A and Mes duo, working together for CasterHate...it'll be insane. There's stuff an A can do that the Mesmer can't. It goes the other way somewhat (Mesmer able to do things Assassins can't), but Assassins are interesting because they're basically a hybrid of Mesmer and Warrior, with some Necro thrown in for good measure. And they can Daze better than Rangers.

And the beauty of it is their prime interrupts and condition inflictors cost 5-10 energy, as opposed to Mesmer interrupts, which, excepting a handful of the new skills, are in the 15-20 range and can't be used as consecutively as Assassins.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 22:16 - 163

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 22:44 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I think the underlying sentiment of this thread is: "you are wrong, I'm right." Realising that we can ramble on for 10 more pages but we still won't go much further than we already have. Some people, including myself, believe Assas aren't a big deal and refuse to accept arguments about the supposed danger they pose to Mesmers; others, believe that Mesmers will have to devise radically new ways to counter the new threat.

The commonality comes from the fact that neither side can ground its arguments on more than 5 days of mixed experience. For all we know Factions might rewrite the books on how we do things. You can view this statement with scepticism (which is my position), or embrace it warmly. Either way limited experience and speculations is what we all share. Do me a favor and at least address the points regarding attribute design, about the 10-11-10 layout.

Or how Critical Strikes isn't used to inflict damage, contrary to your popular belief.

Or the ways around e-denial that have been raised.

Or how things like Empathy won't worry good Assassins.

Or how Assassins are built to be debuffers in addition to absurdly powerful explosive spike damage.

Or possibly address the points regarding Exhaustion, and explain how the traditional Mesmer counters can mitigate it.

Especially if two Assassins have the opportunity to use Exhausting Failure on you consecutively. The order would go something like the following:

They approach you. You go into Distortion. One of them uses Way of the Fox (Shadow Arts) to interrupt/disable your Diversion or Spirit Shackles with Disrupting Stab (Dagger Mastery). They knock out your Distortion by either using Wild Blow from Warrior secondary, or their own Wild Strike (Dagger Mastery).

Now comes Temple Strike (Dagger Mastery). You're Dazed, Blinded and interrupted. If the Blind comes off, the second Assassion can hit you with Blinding Powder (Shadow Arts).

Try to cast again, and you'll get caught by Exhausting Failure (Dagger Mastery). Interrupt and Exhaustion.

If you try to cast again, the second Assassin can use Beguiling Haze (Shadow Arts). Another interrupt and more Exhaustion.

---

The above is a perfect-case scenario, obviously, but the fundamentals are there...and the fundamentals should be enough to get people to open their eyes. Anyone reading the above combination sees what Assassins will be capable of.

And if the Exhaustion stacks? No spellcaster will ever bash Assassins. lol. Insult them, curse them out, absolutely. But they'll never say Assassins are of no concern.

Also, if Way of the Fox affects more than the next skill, like "For X seconds, your next 1-5 skills cannot miss," targets using Distortion are in for a load of hurt.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

03 Apr 2006 at 22:49 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Or for that matter, another Assassin pressuring the Monk. The likelihood of seeing two Assassins on a team in 8v8, one targeting the Monk(s) and the second targeting other spellcasters, is quite high. If the Monk-Killer Assassin is specced appropriately, that Monk will have to concentrate more on saving his own skin than taking an easily renewed Blind off of a Mesmer.

There's an interesting chance of Assassins becoming the prime CasterHate...possibly even replacing Mesmers. And if there's an A and Mes duo, working together for CasterHate...it'll be insane. There's stuff an A can do that the Mesmer can't. It goes the other way somewhat (Mesmer able to do things Assassins can't), but Assassins are interesting because they're basically a hybrid of Mesmer and Warrior, with some Necro thrown in for good measure. And they can Daze better than Rangers.

And the beauty of it is their prime interrupts and condition inflictors cost 5-10 energy, as opposed to Mesmer interrupts, which, excepting a handful of the new skills, are in the 15-20 range and can't be used as consecutively as Assassins.

I really highly doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

That's an Assassin player speaking from experience. Oxymoron.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

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Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 23:52 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

-snip- So, there is no monk, there are no teammates. This is not a team, this is a 2v1 battle that you describe, of which the Mesmer can win but would have to build her skillbar before the "battle" (which, IMO, is no more than a duel).

Also, if Assassins ever replace Mesmers in Caster Hate, I am going to leave this game.

(Oops...we have to return to normal discussion...)

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

04 Apr 2006 at 00:29 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Another things: Hella Good..... Siren, please, no more Neverending War-Thread Duo! If you want to talk each other and argue, find something, somewhere else. Like Max had said, I want to return back to the normal thread with no flaming, trolling, arguing and slapping each other! I think my last post clearly favors no more argumentation. His last post, on the other hand, missed that point. I have decided to simply ignore whatever he has to say from this point on.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

04 Apr 2006 at 00:48 - 169

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
I really highly doubt it.

Doubt all you want. You'll see what I'm talking about, come retail.

Quote: Oxymoron.

Not when I'm one of the only people here who has actually played Assassins first-hand and hasn't tried to construct flimsy "Assassins don't matter" arguments on "points" that are blatantly incorrect to anyone who's actually played Assassins first-hand. Sure, I've only had two weekends worth of experience playing Assassins.

But that's more time playing Assassins than anybody here has had.

I've been doing Assassin build design for a few weeks now, and that's sure as hell more time than anybody here has done.

I'm not the one completely mis-interpreting Critical Strikes, for example, because I have zero experience actually using it.

A statement like "An Assassin player speaking from experience" is an oxymoron? Hardly. Especially in the context of this discussion, where the critics of the profession know next-to-nothing about how the profession actually works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning

So, there is no monk, there are no teammates. This is not a team, this is a 2v1 battle that you describe, of which the Mesmer can win but would have to build her skillbar before the "battle" (which, IMO, is no more than a duel).

Originally Posted by Siren in a previous post

The above is a perfect-case scenario, obviously, but the fundamentals are there...and the fundamentals should be enough to get people to open their eyes. Anyone reading the above combination sees what Assassins will be capable of. You can't ignore the fundamental dangers of an attack skill combination like I described previously. I noted the "perfect-case" of such a scenario, and that "perfect-case" should not be used as the grounds on which you form a rebuttal. Assassins can cause Exhaustion. They can probably stack it if it's possible. And if they can, they can stack it in under 5 seconds. A combination like this can completely debilitate a caster in a matter of seconds...and inflict energy suppression that cannot be removed by anything other than the passage of time.

Some of us have seen the ideas from last year regarding Ele Exhaustion-inducing spells and Plague Touch. It's like that. Only we don't need Eles. We don't need to Exhaust ourselves. And we don't need Plague Touch. All we need is an opening for a single interrupt. That's not something to think about? That's not something that poses a threat to nearly every profession in the game?

If the Monk wants to get that Tag-team's attention, let him. I'm sure the Tag-team would love to inflict some 20-30 points of Exhaustion on a Monk whose max energy only runs in the low 50s.

Quote:

Also, if Assassins ever replace Mesmers in Caster Hate, I am going to leave this game. They'll give them a run for their money, Lightning. You should see the CasterHate ideas some Assassins are developing. They're positively evil.

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

04 Apr 2006 at 01:07 - 170

assiaisins ftw =) never have i played a class i truly like until they came out

they seem very powerful, and we will have to see if anet nerfs them before we can say who is going to replace who =p altouth i first liked my mesmer when i started i h8ed him and deleted him =o

time will tell all, so will a good build =]

LightningHell

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Mo/

04 Apr 2006 at 03:45 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

assiaisins ftw =) I will not agree with that unless you mean Ninjitsu-users.

Kaanin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

Acolyte's Of St.Collins

Me/N

04 Apr 2006 at 04:24 - 172

Well I think One thing people are forgetting is the name, Assasins are what...Assassins, they wait for the opportune moment, just like the mesmer. Assassin is the Melee Mesmer, Deadly, but takes patience and timing.

I think Assassin will fall the way of the Mesmer, Under appreciated, and Underused, because people arnt patient and arnt smart. Everyone rushes into battle head on and dies. A smart Mesmer and smart Assassin wont, they will stalk their opponent waiting for the right moment to strike.

You all say Ineptitude, distortion, blah blah blah, but nothing will save you if an assassin lies in wait, and waits for you to open up a can of pain on someone then just when your in the heat of battle and least expecting it, they teleport next to you and nail you before you even have the chance to laydown anything, and its too late.

A good assassin will wait for an opponent to show a moment of weakness then strike hard and finish them. Just after that necro hit blood renual, right when you get ressurected, right before that monks saves your butt with a healing breeze, a good assassin will be there.

All your strategys will work on 90% of assassins out there, however, there will be a select few who are wise and will rip you open when your not looking.

LightningHell

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Mo/

04 Apr 2006 at 04:40 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaanin

Blah blah blah (AND YES I MEAN BLAH) The Assassin is undoubtedly like the Mesmer. However, YOU STILL HAVE TO BE IN CAST RANGE FOR YOUR FRIGGIN STUFF TO WORK.

1st-ly:
right when you get ressurected - You must have a crap healer who's even worse than the Healer Henchman.
healing breeze - YOU SERIOUS?

2nd-ly:
4 seconds is a HELL OF A LONG TIME to kill a squishy on the front.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

04 Apr 2006 at 07:47 - 174

I applaud the excitement and eagerness of prospective Assassins. Reminds me of a kid getting a new toy to play with and I think it's fine, it's not like it's not fine. No one is here to spoil this wonderful feeling. I actually encourage you to use the Assassin forum to theoricraft and devise as many devastating builds as you can imagine.

The rest of us here, I think, would in fact prefer going back to discussing how to handle you when the situation is less then peaceful.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

04 Apr 2006 at 12:21 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

2nd-ly:
4 seconds is a HELL OF A LONG TIME to kill a squishy on the front. Agree, one of the ppl I get last night (when I posted about to message me If they want to talk personal to not be flamed or show their build and discuss if its good or not) got an idea for slowing down their attacks. Like you said Hell, 4 seconds, its too long to kill someone and get out after that. Even that, this gives him/her 4 seconds of vulnerability. When players know about assassins tactics, they will be more cautious to them and the tactics will fail (knowing by experience during the Beta).

So the 4 seconds can be turn into a 10 seconds.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

04 Apr 2006 at 13:14 - 176

I think Sig of Humility will be a big Counter against assassins. Many of there important 'recovery' skills are elites. Elite attacks aside, the loss of a skill that makes up for loss of energy or health will leave the assassin in a very uncomfortable place.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

04 Apr 2006 at 13:37 - 177

I was playing a Hex master Necro the other day and I thought to myself, "That's really going to own Assas." Although I doubt that Mesmers will do Hex master builds RA/TA style in large games, I know for sure a lot of guilds in the top 100 do use the classic Life Siphon/Faint/Parasitic Necro. Spreading hexes around, a Hex master can overwhelm even the best hex removers. The build that I played, used Life Siphon, Faint, PB, Malaise, Suffering, Enfeeble, and OoB as elite. Not to mention stuff like Spites and IParasite that could potentially overwhelm an Assa. I also had the chance to use some of the new Necro hexes...

You can, of course, fast cast these but I doubt Mesmers will start doing that. I think what this means to us is that most likely we would have a very withered down Assa in our face. Slow attacks (or fast attacks while taking massive attack-triggered hex damage), reduced damage, heavy health degen are just a few of the things you could expect. I guess it's fair to say, like we already did, that apart from the Shacks, Empathy, or a few Illusion hexes, we won't need to be doing much to handle Assas, since most likely Necros are going to be taking care of that.

LightningHell

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Mo/

04 Apr 2006 at 13:52 - 178

Sorry, but I have to burst it out. These past few days have been really funny with this in the back of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

I saw the same kind of "Meh" attitude toward Mesmers as I'm seeing with Assassins currently. Holy shit do you think Mesmers are underused in PvP?

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

04 Apr 2006 at 14:30 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Holy shit do you think Mesmers are underused in PvP?

Let me guess................ Nah!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

LightningHell

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Mo/

04 Apr 2006 at 14:47 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

For the Hex Mesmers/Necro OMG HAX!

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

04 Apr 2006 at 14:49 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

OMG HAX!

Sound like a Wammo

The last I got called HAX! (except you hell now) in GW was when I tried the condition Spreader with R/Me. It just so funny to see the Wammo called "HAXER!" just by poison and cripple.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

04 Apr 2006 at 14:52 - 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Sorry, but I have to burst it out. These past few days have been really funny with this in the back of my head.

Holy shit do you think Mesmers are underused in PvP?

No, but underuse in PvP was never my point (who in their right mind would argue that Mes is underused in PvP anyway?). Think back to before GW Chapter 1 retail. Think back to when everyone first started. Barely anyone knew the power of a Mesmer, or the potential. The overall perception of Mesmers was "Meh." And yet what happened? When the good Mes players started dominating certain areas of the game, the overall perception of Mesmers changed. Just like Necros, Rangers, etc.

Same principle here with the overall perception of Assassins.

Nice try playing spin-doctor, mate, but it didn't work. lol

LightningHell

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Mo/

04 Apr 2006 at 15:08 - 183

Elaine Donnerbalken

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Germany

A Three Headed Monkey Behind U [loOk]

04 Apr 2006 at 17:50 - 184

on the question of edraining Assassins: IF they attack someone using zealous upgrades (critical strikes 10) they have an energy regeneration of about 8 pips.

That probably is enough for the assassin to maintain his combos, as long as he is drained by the common HA-drainer.

But it's true, spirit shackles really hurts. Double Strikes will hurt twice, and the energy through criticals cant compensate the energy loss.

So yes, an anti-melee mesmer will win against an assassin most of the time. But as we all know, GW is a team game. And as soon as its PvP, you need your team. I don't think that this 1on1 discussion really makes sense, this is not "counter this skill".

We know that the assassin will have a monk in his backline removing the blindness caused by Ineptitude. We also know that the dazed condition on the mesmer will be removed by his monk. So the real question is:

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do?

(mhwahaha, Assassin out of danger^^)

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

04 Apr 2006 at 17:54 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do? Inspired Enchantment?

You got me an idea Elaine. Just thinking (and working at my job at the same time (during my pause or when I will come home) and I will come for futur update. This gonna be fun

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

04 Apr 2006 at 20:30 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Siren, this is an entirely different time; it's not an entirely new game, we are completely familiar with the concepts, we know what is the definition of a good skill and a bad one, there are actual existing professions instead of just brand new ones, etc. On the contrary, Lightning. For all intents and purposes, the Assassin game is an entirely new game. It's a brand-new profession, just like pre-launch of Chapter 1. Any time that people have to learn a new profession, it's a new learning experience, and with that new learning experience, you see the same exact kinds of social reactions. There are the lovers and the haters. The lovers and the haters are nothing new. The social reactions are nothing new. It happens all the time, whenever anything new is introduced. And it's especially obvious with new professions...regardless of whether the game itself has been out two years, or two months.

I mean, consider the crap that Mesmers had to put up with early on (hell, sometimes they still have to put up with that crap). Consider how so many people considered them almost completely irrelevant. Then what happened? People started using them. Their strengths and assets to a team became readily apparent.

Then suddenly a girly-looking profession with non-intuitive skill sets became one of the most desirable professions for any team in PvP.

How many early Mesmer builds, for example, depended on Backfire? Back during launch, Backfire was amazing to most people. But it's truly one of the more lackluster Domination skills. It's effective in some builds, sure, but if the Mesmer is looking to completely prevent a caster from casting--a Monk for example--then a combination of Diversion, Shame, possibly WW, etc, with Backfire as a supplement, will be more useful.

Back during launch, however, did we see Shame being used much at all? No. We didn't. That's because Backfire basically stole the spot-light. lol. Why is that? Because Backfire's effect was pretty obvious. But as time went on, people's perceptions of Mesmers changed, because there were suddenly all of these new options available. Skills that nobody paid attention to initially were suddenly integral parts of a Mesmer CasterHate build and gasp! Suddenly far fewer people were bashing Mesmers for the wrong reasons...and more people started bashing them for the right reasons ("OMG Mesmer you bastard!" for example)

We all saw that. We all saw that exact progression.

So why deny it'll be any different for Assassin? What makes Assassin the exception to that rule? What makes you think they'll always suck?

Because people have had combat experience with other, different, almost unrelated professions, so they know which Assassin skills are/will be good and bad?

On the contrary. Some people in this very thread have proven that theory completely wrong. Some here have been spouting off how useless certain skills are/will be and yet are talking out of their ass, lol. Some here have no idea what the primary attribute for Assassins is actually used for. Some here don't see the use in something like Scorpion Wire, just writing it off as lame and undeserving a second-glance. Some have already written-off Assassins as just minor annoyances when they haven't even taken the time to learn the profession.

That is the same exact mentality we saw 1-2 years ago when people first saw Mesmers, Necros, and Rangers. You said it yourself: you hated Necro. If you still hate Necro, that's too bad. But at least you do recognize their importance, right? And it doesn't seem like you're saying (or implying) they're useless. Why is that? Because you've at least seen what they can do when they're played by experienced players.

Do you honestly believe that won't happen with Assassins (or Ritualists)? That they'll be an inferior profession the entire time, because the inexperienced and the haters don't think they're worth anything? Once people start figuring out how to squeeze out more of the Assassin potential (though they already have started), suddenly a queer-looking profession with non-intuitive skill sets will become one of the most desirable professions for any team in PvP. Hell, I think it's entirely possible to see a CasterHate duo of a Me/X and A/X in the near future, if not just two Assassins. ~_^

To summarize:

Just like Mesmers from a year or so ago, the only appropriate judges of the potential of Assassins will be experienced Assassin players. Nobody else. Not Monks who try to use Guardian. Not Warriors who can't even get in range. Not Rangers who can barely hit them. And certainly not a handful of Mesmers with zero experience playing Assassin.

It's just the way things go.

If the uneducated and uncultured were the only ones determining which professions are useful, we probably wouldn't even see Mesmers and Necros in PvP ever. And that's a truth that cannot be denied. lol

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

04 Apr 2006 at 22:45 - 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do? Why of course shut down the monk in about 10secs and divert your attention to your next victim.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

05 Apr 2006 at 01:39 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Why of course shut down the monk in about 10secs and divert your attention to your next victim.

Course you are saving a Sig of Midnight/Ineptitude for the assassin should he charge in those 10 secs right?

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

05 Apr 2006 at 01:54 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Course you are saving a Sig of Midnight/Ineptitude for the assassin should he charge in those 10 secs right? I think Shackwrack if I'm running e-denial. Gogogo double strikes!!!

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

05 Apr 2006 at 02:06 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I think Shackwrack if I'm running e-denial. Gogogo double strikes!!! Well, for me, I try to get out of the routine. E-Denial, IW, Inept and those which I haven't named it and stay popular, are off fora while. I will try something else.

Anyway, I'm not here for that. Well, Like I said before, about Inspred enchantment, Its a another I found for self-defense but they must have this Elite on them. The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

05 Apr 2006 at 02:39 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

this could be a fun play.

Agreed.

But I mildly disagree on that all Warrior killers will be Assassin killers. IMO, Assassins would have to be dealt with as half-W-half-R. As they can teleport from range, but still have to come into melee to fight. Didn't really word that well, so whatever.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

05 Apr 2006 at 03:00 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

I see where you're going with it. It's an unlinked skill, which means you can inspire it off and use it without penalty. Which then gives you some nifty teleportation, eh? BUT, you do need to be careful with it. I'd advise any Me/X or X/Me to make sure you're something of a combat class--or at least tailored to withstand damage. Because even though having a maintained warp point somewhere on the battlefield sounds nice, you also have to teleport to a target foe when first casting AoD. Just choose your target carefully. And also keep in mind your own Aura of Displacement can get removed, which sends you zipping back.

It's one of the newer philosophies/approaches I was talking about earlier. How enchant removal isn't only for debuffs anymore. You can use enchant removal to counter Shadow Stepping. Ending something like AoD or even Recall pre-emptively will be one of the required new tactics/counters to Assassins. It's why traditional Inept and WarHate won't cover everything...those will actually only cover a small portion.

Like your portfolios, your counters and philosophies behind them have to get diversified.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

05 Apr 2006 at 06:00 - 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Well, for me, I try to get out of the routine. E-Denial, IW, Inept and those which I haven't named it and stay popular, are off fora while. I will try something else.

Anyway, I'm not here for that. Well, Like I said before, about Inspred enchantment, Its a another I found for self-defense but they must have this Elite on them. The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

I looked back through the Assassin skills, and Inspired/Drain Enchantment will work against assassin's like it never did against warriors. They've got a fair mixing of Stances and enchants, and a few of those enchants would be key to specific builds. So it's just gonna be a matter of watching.

So Inspired Enchant + Sig of Humility would leave the assassin to ponder another attack, but not helpless. Unless their elite was a lead attack! I think I like that combo, not that it's the end all.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

05 Apr 2006 at 19:45 - 194

You see, if you're setting your build for a defense situation, you can survive easily against everything. While you stay alive, this gives a good amount of time for your group to kill the other one.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

05 Apr 2006 at 20:00 - 195

Yes, but should Mesmers go all defense just because there is an Assa on the enemy team? I certainly don't think so. I hold the position that at most one skill can be fit into a Mesmer build to help cope with a specific "new" threat. What that specific threat might be and which skill will be used is open to discussion but bottom line is: Mesmers aren't going to go all defense or go all anti-Assa. That is just not going to happen.

It's more like thinking in terms of which of the old or new skills we will be using anyway can we utilize versus Assas.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

05 Apr 2006 at 20:15 - 196

Off course I dont full up my bar skills for only self defense. I take some Attacks skills too with it. One thing is certain, all players who had message me during that night about their build because of assassins are really, really good. I keep them in silence for the surprise. Sorry for those who want to know the builds but I make a promise to do not to tell. I continue for those who want to talk this personally about assassins and mesmer.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

05 Apr 2006 at 20:27 - 197

You know we can also Arcane Thievery/Larceny them. That would be funny, if you take a key attack in their attack sequence. Much like Diversion, I guess. Plus both can be used on a wide range of targets, including Monks and other spell-casters.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

05 Apr 2006 at 21:46 - 198

Just hope to get the right or do Echo Thievery for more stealing