Oh heck. Assassins. (Mesmer thread.)

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

02 Apr 2006 at 05:39 - 121

Quote:

And if Mes is throwing occasional hexes their way, two or three hexes won't be enough to shut them down, especially when the Mesmer's Necro buddies are disabling other melee characters.

On the contrary, if the necro is disabling melee characters, two or three hexes will screw the assassin over quite badly. A diversion tossed into their attack string means suddenly they have 1 less skill, and if you knock out a sequence skill, you can remove a huge portion of their capabilities.

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I agree flag running will be a major strength of Assassins, but I wouldn't expect them to go after Monks and Rits primarily. They can do assassination almost anywhere. If they see an opening, regardless of where it is, regardless of the character (except Warrior and to a lesser extent, Ranger), they'll take it...including any CasterHate Mesmers inching forward. ~_^

Assassins will take any chance they have... but so does every other class in the game. If you're playing the ideal situation, it can work both ways. The assassin warps in, gets blinded by a support ele standing in a ward vs melee, then torn down by a warrior adren spike.

Quote: And Warriors and Rangers have an easier interrupt style? Apart from HamWar KD (which Ward of Stability will have a dramatic effect upon) and the occasional Choking Gas interrupt (or Broadhead Arrow in Factions), Warriors and Rangers pose less of a threat to Mesmers than Assassins, especially when you're discounting Assassin CasterHate on the grounds of the Mesmer cast rate and the attacker's interrupt styles. Hrm, whats more dangerous. An assassin's distracting attack (which isn't instant) or things like punishing shot, savage shot, and your own mentioned Broad Head Arrow. Assassins also have to chain up for certain interrupts, making them atrocious to use in actual conflict where you might need to interrupt something immediately.

Quote:

So why would a Mesmer spec into an Inept build? Why would they spec into WarHate at all? Some of the "best" counters to Assassins in this forum have been relying on Mesmer Illusion. It makes little to no sense Diversion + distortion is enough to cripple an assassin, and it's part of a standard domination build often. I believe I mentioned that back near page 1 or 2.

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If you can't work-in stance removal, either with your Mesmer's secondary or another team-mate, you are completely screwed in certain situations. ~_^ Er... why? If that was true, wouldn't we all be shaking in our boots from warriors that run glad's def?

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 05:53 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

They either wait out 6 seconds, which isn't terribly long, or they go right through their chain, get their target under 50% health (which isn't hard at all), then use Moebius Strike.

Quote:

But warping into a situation like that isn't playing intelligently, and the smart Assassins won't warp like that.

Quote:

Hrm, whats more dangerous. An assassin's distracting attack (which isn't instant) or things like punishing shot, savage shot, and your own mentioned Broad Head Arrow. Assassins also have to chain up for certain interrupts, making them atrocious to use in actual conflict where you might need to interrupt something immediately. There are Assassin interrupts that both don't depend on previous skills, and also set-up for really nasty interrupt chains, including debilitating condition infliction. So choosing between interrupting a Mesmer with either a Ranger (who would need to take into account flight time, distance, etc) or an Assassin (who's doing everything in melee range, and who can attack much faster than the Ranger)...? The choice would be obvious.

Quote:

Diversion + distortion is enough to cripple an assassin, and it's part of a standard domination build often. I believe I mentioned that back near page 1 or 2. Diversion can be handled by waiting out the 6 seconds, or Moebius Strike.

Distortion...a well-played Assassin won't care about Distortion. ~_^

Quote:

Er... why? If that was true, wouldn't we all be shaking in our boots from warriors that run glad's def? Why would you be worried about Glad's Defense in the first place? It does absolutely nothing to impede your own personal Mesmer success. That's not the case with Assassin skills.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

02 Apr 2006 at 05:57 - 123

Ok... for the last time: Assassins aren't anything Mesmers are going to sweat about. If they begin to annoy people enuf, Mesmers will just make room for Empathy or Shacks, and that's going to be GG rite there. Period.

As for the Warrior's Bane builds: you started talking 8v8 all of a sudden. I didn't know that GvG/HoH was what we were discussing... As you might be aware, there is other game formats. In RA/TA I play almost exclusively Warriors Bane with Inepti/Clumsi (or Inepti/IoR/Conjure). In 8v8 obviously people don't run Inepti because the spike damage gets healed fast and the Blindness gets mended. Plus generally Necros are handling any fighter classes.

Also, Illusion is quite common in PvP, mainly because of Migraine. I see no problem in picking a few skills from the Illusion line to help cope with Assas, again if the need arises. Clumsiness and IoR come to mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

A diversion tossed into their attack string means suddenly they have 1 less skill, and if you knock out a sequence skill, you can remove a huge portion of their capabilities. QFT.

To sum it up: Diversion, Distortion, Shacks, Empathy, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, IoR- just a few of the non-e-denial skills that will be successful in handling Assassins.

I have made my point clear: I don't care about Assas, because they pose no visible threat to me. If I need to, I'll make room for one-two skills to help kill em fast. Not like anyone is going to sweat a low armor, 30 nrg, ninja prep-cook.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

02 Apr 2006 at 05:59 - 124

Quote:

But warping into a situation like that isn't playing intelligently, and the smart Assassins won't warp like that.

And the smart counterteam will take the fight to them as well. You can't assume the assassin is smart when the rest aren't.

Quote:

They either wait out 6 seconds, which isn't terribly long, or they go right through their chain, get their target under 50% health (which isn't hard at all), then use Moebius Strike.
6 seconds IS a long time to be useless if you're low AL in the middle of the enemy team, a good mesmer will diversion them while they're using skills not giving them time to cancel, and there are glyph/recovery builds that can keep diversion up permanently.

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get their target under 50% health (which isn't hard at all), then use Moebius Strike. And where are the monks? Asleep? Guardian would play hell with the attacks, and 1 heal would mess up the final attack.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 06:21 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

And the smart counterteam will take the fight to them as well. You can't assume the assassin is smart when the rest aren't.

The "rest" being other players of any professions, I'd imagine? There are going to be completely stupid Assassin players, sure. Just like there are completely stupid Eles today. Or completely stupid Monks, or Mesmers, or Rangers, you get the idea. But that doesn't automatically mean that all counters to those profession morons will translate to the skilled players. And yes. I'd expect the smart counterteam to take the fight to that Assassin. All the more reason for the Assassin to pay attention.

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6 seconds IS a long time to be useless if you're low AL in the middle of the enemy team, a good mesmer will diversion them while they're using skills not giving them time to cancel, and there are glyph/recovery builds that can keep diversion up permanently. If the Mesmer can Divert the third skill in the attack chain a milli-second before the Assassin uses it so the Assassin can't cancel it out, I'll give them a cookie. ^_^ If the Mesmer Diverts the lead attack, wouldn't it be a sound strategy to bring a second, cheaper lead in anticipation?

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And where are the monks? Asleep? Guardian would play hell with the attacks, and 1 heal would mess up the final attack. You assume Guardian will screw over a good Assassin. Sometimes it might, but if the Assassin knows what they're doing...Guardian will mean the same thing as Distortion: the enemies don't know what Assassins are packing. Guardian won't affect Assassins in the same way it affects Warriors. Very few evasion/block stances/enchants will, actually.

Hella, I'm fully aware that RA/TA exists. I'm fully aware of Migraine builds that have space for some WarHate Illusion hexes. But your counters aren't that impressive. Diversion, eh. Distortion...hehe. Shacks has potential, but it suffers from the same Assassin counters as Distortion. Empathy...hehe. Inept is meh, so is Clumsiness. IoR, maybe, but even then, they still have things to mitigate it.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

02 Apr 2006 at 07:12 - 126

The secret to playing an assassin, will be much like the secret to playing Mesmer or Ranger, timing. No one among us is going to spend time babysitting the assassin or charging after the assassin, we'll be doing or normal routines in PvP. The power of the assassin is capitalizing on a mistake or a moment of weakness. Sure 1 on 1 an assassin might not be that much of a threat but no one can say that they will be that way in the heat of battle. We don't know how they will synergize with other builds/profesions. It could very well be that they will be a fragile glorified warrior, and the same tricks will work on them. But they may suprise us. After all they only need a few seconds to roll through their combos, and they can snatch themselves out of danger when things go south. I think they'll be a class to watch, and they won't be so easily countered as we think. I'm a little curious about the skill Scorpian Wire (I think that's the name). That would be really simple to trick to start off a nasty combo where you won't be able to get in a spell. They'd travel 100' in the blink of an eye, and you get KD'd. The combo that would follow would kill you without an infuse. There are many many assassin skills that cannot be evaded so distortion will not be effective against them. They also have a nasty nasty interrupt that causes daze. They'd only have to interrupt your first spell, everything else would be cake. I think Assassin's will be nasty in their own right.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

02 Apr 2006 at 10:14 - 127

You are really mistaken if you think Ineptitude is "Meh".

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

02 Apr 2006 at 14:32 - 128

Clumsiness, Ineptitude, Distortion, Empathy, Sympathetic Visage, among many other skills are great to counter assassins. I owned many assassins actually in the event recently because of those skills.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

02 Apr 2006 at 15:21 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

If the Mesmer can Divert the third skill in the attack chain a milli-second before the Assassin uses it so the Assassin can't cancel it out, I'll give them a cookie. ^_^ /Raise hand

Easy to Divert assassin skills, trust me. They're already expose their skills in front of you. Its looks like playing cards but your opponent shows at you what he has in hands.

Me/N is easy to play to counter Assassins...... Not only by the little plague touch.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

02 Apr 2006 at 16:53 - 130

With such ridiculous armor stats, they will most likely fall to a 2ndary prof use in large teams (mainly by Eles and Rangers). They can warp around all they want, if you think Assassins need just a few seconds to deliver their "deadly" comboes, well, lemme tell you, you need the same time to send the little punks back to their monks crying (all the while just heal-negating the damage they dealt) or (more likely) fix them a personal meeting with Grenth himself.

Not only does their armor suck but it sucks BIG TIME. Some of the Mesmer Factions armor is better than Assassin armor... their armor is so conditional, it's sad.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 23:46 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

The secret to playing an assassin, will be much like the secret to playing Mesmer or Ranger, timing. No one among us is going to spend time babysitting the assassin or charging after the assassin, we'll be doing our normal routines in PvP. The power of the assassin is capitalizing on a mistake or a moment of weakness. Sure 1 on 1 an assassin might not be that much of a threat but no one can say that they will be that way in the heat of battle. We don't know how they will synergize with other builds/profesions. It could very well be that they will be a fragile glorified warrior, and the same tricks will work on them. But they may suprise us. After all they only need a few seconds to roll through their combos, and they can snatch themselves out of danger when things go south. I think they'll be a class to watch, and they won't be so easily countered as we think. I'm a little curious about the skill Scorpian Wire (I think that's the name). That would be really simple to trick to start off a nasty combo where you won't be able to get in a spell. They'd travel 100' in the blink of an eye, and you get KD'd. The combo that would follow would kill you without an infuse. There are many many assassin skills that cannot be evaded so distortion will not be effective against them. They also have a nasty nasty interrupt that causes daze. They'd only have to interrupt your first spell, everything else would be cake. I think Assassin's will be nasty in their own right. Very well said, Max. Thank you. Scorpion Wire, yes. It will have its uses.

And yes. Fast Casting doesn't matter when the first two attacks can break through any evasion techniques, then make the caster's casting life a living hell. ^_^

Kai and Lightning, I've run the Inept Illusion builds, especially after the Inept buff. It won't be as devastating as you think, especially against good Assassins. Same goes for Clumsiness, Empathy, Symp.Vis, etc. If you think Distortion will work, you're in for a surprise, mates.

Mesmers and the counters/philosophies they use will have to change come Factions.

Ninetail Trickster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

A pleasant place that needs more rain. T_T

The Rose Society

03 Apr 2006 at 02:08 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

1) Equips bow? What do you think? IW with bow? Nah!
2) Why Drain Enchantment, Shatter it because they heal after Shadow Refuge. If they have that elite Shadow step under this enchantment is a waste. Shadow Step, strip enchantment and go away! Heh. I'm aware that IW doesn't work with a bow. That's why they think 'easy target'.... Whatsa' mesmer gonna' do with a bow? XD
2. Drain BECAUSE they heal after Shadow Refuge, and with any luck the energy'll let you counter that.

More currently relevant:
Scorpion Wire made me grin when I heard about it. It'll finally put those ragerunners in their place...

Runner: HAW HAW, I USED CRIPPLING ANGUISH ON YOUUUUU
A/N: -scorpion wire- -waits-
Runner: -breaks the range barrier-
A/N: -shadowstep- -plague touch-
Runner: ZOMG
A/N: -sssuuuuuuper commmmmmmbooooooo......[/KillerInstinct]-

-shrug-
I'm surprised this thread is still alive... wish I had time to go through and read it all. Looks like people are bringing up awesome ideas.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 02:10 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Very well said, Max. Thank you. Scorpion Wire, yes. It will have its uses.

And yes. Fast Casting doesn't matter when the first two attacks can break through any evasion techniques, then make the caster's casting life a living hell. ^_^

Kai and Lightning, I've run the Inept Illusion builds, especially after the Inept buff. It won't be as devastating as you think, especially against good Assassins. Same goes for Clumsiness, Empathy, Symp.Vis, etc. If you think Distortion will work, you're in for a surprise, mates.

Mesmers and the counters/philosophies they use will have to change come Factions. You really believe in the "terrifying power" of the Assassins, don't you? You are convinced that you will be allowed and I mean allowed to do your dance while the rest of the world sits, and watches, and claps... I mean really... you are in for a cold shower.

You expect Mesmers to shiver and sweat just because you have several non-evasion skills... well you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Warriors have had non-evade, non-block skills for far longer and mind you in higher number than Assassins. Still I don't see a single Mesmer losing his or her mind over a Warrior...

As for your precious Scorpion Wire... don't make me laugh... by the time you get in range to activate it, your nrg will be gone or you will be hexed beyound recognition. That or you will be interrupted, your hex removed, or simply destroyed using any other means.

The only Assassin skills that can cause any notable damage are Temple and Moebius Strike. I clearly doubt you will be able to do your skill sequence to get to use those and, mind you, even if you do, nothing you do cannot be easily handled by the Monk on the team, which, doh!, you are not targeting because you are busying yourself with a Mesmer.

I plan on taking one of the following depending on my build to help handle Assassins: Shacks, Empathy, or IoR. Other than that I will leave it to the team Necro or whoever is doing the Warriors Bane.

Again, you blatant belief that Assassins are these godly things send from Heaven to bring justice to the Mesmer race is ridiculous. I would have at least felt some level of difficulty fighting Assassins during the last two events, if any of what you are bragging about had even the slighest support. On the contrary, I handled all with ease...

At this point, I would suggest you making a thread called "Oh heck. Mesmers (Assassin thread)" in the Assassin forum to try to solidify your optimistic persuasions.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 02:54 - 134

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hella Good
-snip- *sigh*

Well, Assassins sound 1337.

merciless

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sin Squad www.sinsquad.us

W/

03 Apr 2006 at 03:01 - 135

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hella Good

You really believe in the "terrifying power" of the Assassins, don't you? You are convinced that you will be allowed and I mean allowed to do your dance while the rest of the world sits, and watches, and claps... I mean really... you are in for a cold shower.

You expect Mesmers to shiver and sweat just because you have several non-evasion skills... well you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Warriors have had non-evade, non-block skills for far longer and mind you in higher number than Assassins. Still I don't see a single Mesmer losing his or her mind over a Warrior...

As for your precious Scorpion Wire... don't make me laugh... by the time you get in range to activate it, your nrg will be gone or you will be hexed beyound recognition. That or you will be interrupted, your hex removed, or simply destroyed using any other means.

The only Assassin skills that can cause any notable damage are Temple and Moebius Strike. I clearly doubt you will be able to do your skill sequence to get to use those and, mind you, even if you do, nothing you do cannot be easily handled by the Monk on the team, which, doh!, you are not targeting because you are busying yourself with a Mesmer.

I plan on taking one of the following depending on my build to help handle Assassins: Shacks, Empathy, or IoR. Other than that I will leave it to the team Necro or whoever is doing the Warriors Bane.

Again, you blatant belief that Assassins are these godly things send from Heaven to bring justice to the Mesmer race is ridiculous. I would have at least felt some level of difficulty fighting Assassins during the last two events, if any of what you are bragging about had even the slighest support. On the contrary, I handled all with ease...

At this point, I would suggest you making a thread called "Oh heck. Mesmers (Assassin thread)" in the Assassin forum to try to solidify your optimistic persuasions. Cry more

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 03:21 - 136

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hella Good
You are convinced that you will be allowed and I mean allowed to do your dance while the rest of the world sits, and watches, and claps... I mean really... you are in for a cold shower.

Point to where I've said (or implied) anything of the sort and I'll concede the point. As far as I can recall, however, my point is and has always been that Mesmers should not underestimate Assassins, and certainly should not shrug them off as mere second-rate Warriors. Check your aggression. And don't try to play spin-doctor, lol.

Quote:

You expect Mesmers to shiver and sweat just because you have several non-evasion skills... well you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Warriors have had non-evade, non-block skills for far longer and mind you in higher number than Assassins. Still I don't see a single Mesmer losing his or her mind over a Warrior...

Am I to doubt Assassin skills simply because various Warrior anti-evasion skills are less than spectacular? I count no more than five anti-evasion skills in Warrior. And out of those five, only three are actual anti-evasion. I promise you that Assassins easily have more potent and numerous anti-evasion skills. Try playing Assassin if you don't believe me. Look at their skill synergy. They're far more a debuffer class than you're giving them credit for.

Quote:

As for your precious Scorpion Wire... don't make me laugh... by the time you get in range to activate it, your nrg will be gone or you will be hexed beyound recognition. That or you will be interrupted, your hex removed, or simply destroyed using any other means. Am I putting Scorpion Wire up on some pedestal? Implying it's God-like? Am I saying anything of the sort?

No, I am not. I said it will have its uses. And it will have its uses. Check your aggression, mate. It's completely unnecessary here.

Quote: The only Assassin skills that can cause any notable damage are Temple and Moebius Strike. I clearly doubt you will be able to do your skill sequence to get to use those and, mind you, even if you do, nothing you do cannot be easily handled by the Monk on the team, which, doh!, you are not targeting because you are busying yourself with a Mesmer. If you honestly believe that Temple and Moebius Strike are the only notable damage skills in the Assassin skillset, you really do need to read-up on Assassins, mate.

What's even more interesting (and telling) regarding your assessment of Assassin skill sets is your implication that Temple and Moebius Strike are only accessible after one does the skill sequence. Anyone minimally versed in Assassin build design would never, ever place Temple and Moebius in the same sentence, in the context you're using. Assassin players (and those open to what Assassins offer) know what I'm getting at here.

Also, nowhere in this thread have I been talking about targeting Mesmers above any other professions. But if the opportunity presents itself, and if the situation calls for it, the Assassin should certainly knock out the Mesmer who is disrupting a Monk. In 8v8, there's considerably more versatility and fluidity in team combat. Assassins won't always have to target Monks or Ritualists, especially if the team has another CasterHate build. Again, check your aggression, please. I'd appreciate some more comprehension and less spin-doctoring.

Quote:

I plan on taking one of the following depending on my build to help handle Assassins: Shacks, Empathy, or IoR. Other than that I will leave it to the team Necro or whoever is doing the Warriors Bane. Go right ahead. Good Assassins won't care.

And by "Warrior's Bane," I hope you aren't referring to the pre-built N/Me template.

Quote:

Again, you blatant belief that Assassins are these godly things send from Heaven to bring justice to the Mesmer race is ridiculous. Again, I'd suggest you not try to play spin-doctor here. ^_^

Quote: Hey, I fear the Riverdance just as much as the next guy. ~_^

And yeah, there are going to be morons playing Assassin throughout the game. But there are morons right now, playing absolute horrible Rangers and Mesmers (so much fun having them trying to interrupt you...heh), but people generally don't label those classes as awful today. I mean, look at how the game's evolved.

Up until a few months ago, particular Necro builds were largely unheard of. I was using OoB long before most people. ^_^

Last year was the first time trappers got major attention in anything.

People have recently discovered Migraine--or at least its use has become slightly more widespread.

Before players took notice of stuff like that, those professions and builds weren't used at all, and those aspects of those professions (and sometimes the professions themselves) weren't as respected as they should have been.

I anticipate the same thing for Assassins. They're like other "underdog" professions because people aren't realizing or seeing their potential. But further, they're like Mesmer because on top of that potential, they're an extremely powerful and potent Debilitation profession.

Quote:

I would have at least felt some level of difficulty fighting Assassins during the last two events, if any of what you are bragging about had even the slighest support. On the contrary, I handled all with ease...

A span of 48 hours is hardly enough time to make broad, sweeping generalizations like "Assassins will be of no concern to me because I handled all of them with ease over a weekend." If you think Assassins will be complete pushovers, you'll get to prove it 3-6 months after retail/introduction, because that's generally the timeframe for most players to start developing more advanced builds and figuring out hidden strengths of the new professions.

Quote:

At this point, I would suggest you making a thread called "Oh heck. Mesmers (Assassin thread)" in the Assassin forum to try to solidify your optimistic persuasions. My optimistic persuasions are solidified already because I'm not basing my assessment of Assassins on two weekends filled with generally mediocre performances from brand-spanking-new Assassin players and a general refusal to explore the possibilities and options of Assassin skills.

I don't believe for a second you've had any actual experience with Assassins at all, apart from "pwning" novices during weekend previews.

You barely know the skills...that much is clear when you say that Warriors have more anti-evasion skills...not to mention when you list Temple and Moebius Strike has the "notable damage" dealers from Assassin.

You outright trash Scorpion Wire yet clearly have no idea how it will be useful, just like you apparently have no idea how useful Critical Strike, Iron Palm, or Signet of Malice will be, because if you did, you wouldn't be trying to pull this "Assassins only have three worthwhile skills" crap.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 04:32 - 137

GW is a team game. Even so, if you try 1v1 Mesmer vs Assassin (w/out secondary), I can safely bet my money on the Mesmer.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Apr 2006 at 04:51 - 138

Another point that should be brought up, as it's been ignored to this point.

I keep hearing that (and even said) that Assassins will be weak without energy. But honestly in a team battle, why would you pick an assassin over a monk or another mesmer to start your usual E.Denial? If someone started casting burn/surge/weariness on a warrior, when there were other targets around, I would say it was an inexperienced Mesmer.

I think it would be important to think outside the 1 on 1 box, and start putting Assassins in a living and breathing team. So a couple of questions I got....

How high a priority target will an assassin be? After Monks and Mesmers? Just before warrior?

Will you really be able to babysit an assassin, that is going to be hard to keep up with to begin with, while everything else is going on?

I agree, that should the mesmer devote his entire attention to assassin duty, then the assassin won't be much of a threat...Only on a one on one basis. But then again, if that assassin plays perfectly, and the mesmer plays average standard mesmerism...I think they will be suprised how quickly the tide changes.

And slightly (by slightly I mean alot) off subject... Avarre, your newest Avatar is freaking cool. What did you use to create it?

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 05:10 - 139

Originally Posted by Avarre

Mesmers aren't going to specifically spec to kill assassins in 8v8, besides the occasional shackles or diversion tossed on them perhaps.

I also agree 100% to this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I agree, that should the mesmer devote his entire attention to assassin duty, then the assassin won't be much of a threat...Only on a one on one basis. But then again, if that assassin plays perfectly, and the mesmer plays average standard mesmerism...I think they will be suprised how quickly the tide changes.

zoozoc

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Beaverton/OR

Disciples of Birkler [BIR]

03 Apr 2006 at 05:16 - 140

wow the way everyone makes mesmers anti-everything, im suprised a team of 8 mesmers cant pwn any other team, i mean they are anti-everything.

Anyways, assasins can pretty much be shut down in better ways then warriors, of course left alone they can wreck havoc (of course so can warriors, and much better dps too). The ways that dont generally work on warriors are A. Kill them, much lower armor then warriors B. Energy denial C. Stop 1 of their chains in their chain of attacks.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Apr 2006 at 05:36 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I think it's fair to say that the two won't be facing each other much. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Assas aren't incorporated as primaries in 8v8 builds at all but rather are used as secondaries. Could be wrong of course.
Actually one of my biggest worries is that PvP will continue uninterrupted, and ignore the new classes. The rut that the 8v8 metagame has gotten itself into is gonna be hard to shake out of.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 06:12 - 142

But the reality of the situation remains: once people realize how effective primary Assassins are, we'll see more and more of them in PvP. They're like Mesmers; at first, most people ignored Mesmers. Then a few people started "unlocking" their potential. Now no team goes without one or two primary Mes.

It'll be the same thing with Assassins. I saw the same kind of "Meh" attitude toward Mesmers as I'm seeing with Assassins currently. That will change once people realize that Assassins can give Mesmers a run for their money when it comes to CasterHate. Not to mention mobility. And DPS. And condition infliction (they damn near surpass every profession for condition infliction). And monk pressure.

What people are really going to hate about Assassins is how they may very well make Martyr obsolete. You see the Purge Conditions/Martyr builds? The Monk is dead if they decide to Martyr the multitudes of Assassin conditions all at once. I'm looking forward to that target call...Death's Charge over, use a lead attack, then Entangling, then whatever I feel like...leaning in the direction of letting them get up, then Temple Strike them, then exhaust the bastard. Martyr will only be possible if another Monk is running Restore Condition. And having two Monks using their Elite slot for cond removal is silly.

I wonder what happens if we see teams starting to use three Monks? Two for team health concerns, and the third strictly for hex/cond removal? We don't really see any need for it right now, do we? Most teams get by on two. If a third Monk is required for dedicated hex/cond removal...what's that say about Assassins?

For a class that's supposedly so ineffective, they may very well be the driving force behind a dedicated hex/cond removal Monk carrying Restore Condition.

That doesn't make Assassins sound so "Whirling Teddybear"-ish to me. ~_^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max

I keep hearing that (and even said) that Assassins will be weak without energy. But honestly in a team battle, why would you pick an assassin over a monk or another mesmer to start your usual E.Denial? If someone started casting burn/surge/weariness on a warrior, when there were other targets around, I would say it was an inexperienced Mesmer. Good question. If the Mes focuses the e-denial on an Assassin, it's most likely...

1) The Mes doesn't know what they're doing...and they don't understand why e-denial on Assassins won't be as effective as on Monks.

and 2) The Assassin is understood to pose a great enough threat to warrant a more or less useless e-denial attack.

If that makes sense.

Ninetail Trickster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

A pleasant place that needs more rain. T_T

The Rose Society

03 Apr 2006 at 06:40 - 143

Why is the monk dead? Conditions don't stack... just Martyr and Purge Conditions. Problem solved, eh?

Rest of your argument holds up alright. Unfortunately, Assassins are not like Mesmers. A cloak-and-dagger killer has a different appeal than a jig-dancing thespian. Consequently, different people will play- most of which will not be interested in unlocking anything. Of course there will be exceptions, such as yourself, but on the whole I expect a lot of combo-chainers with names like 'Death Dragon Darker' and such.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 06:51 - 144

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 06:54 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninetail Trickster

Why is the monk dead? Conditions don't stack... just Martyr and Purge Conditions. Problem solved, eh?

The Monk is dead because the conditions he or she will be Martyr-ing will very likely be all of the following in the following order, provided the Assassins would be specced appropriately:

Bleed, Deep Wound, Poison, Cripple, Blind, Dazed.

Then provided the Assassin(s) notice the Martyr, you can add Exhaustion to that list. ^_^

Quote: Rest of your argument holds up alright. Unfortunately, Assassins are not like Mesmers. A cloak-and-dagger killer has a different appeal than a jig-dancing thespian. Consequently, different people will play- most of which will not be interested in unlocking anything. Of course there will be exceptions, such as yourself, but on the whole I expect a lot of combo-chainers with names like 'Death Dragon Darker' and such.

Originally Posted by Hella

Shackwrack is about as much of e-denial that you need to devote to anything with less than 45 nrg that attacks. Works perfectly fine and is fairly spammable. Shackwrack will probably be the dominant choice vs Assas. Not when we can hit through it just fine and still connect with our attacks. And it's very, very possible to do that with certain Assassin skills, Hella.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 07:04 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Not when we can hit through it just fine and still connect with our attacks. And it's very, very possible to do that with certain Assassin skills, Hella. You lost me.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 07:07 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

You lost me. Exactly my point. Read-up on Assassins and you'll understand what I'm saying, and why I'm saying it. Unless you're just being sarcastic, and in that case, you'll find a dagger through the side of your head. ~_^

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 07:21 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Exactly my point. Read-up on Assassins and you'll understand what I'm saying, and why I'm saying it. Unless you're just being sarcastic, and in that case, you'll find a dagger through the side of your head. ~_^ I don't even understand the sentance you wrote... and it's not poor English skills... See, the main problem with your arguments thus far is ambiguity. We are supposed to take it for granted that Assassins are gonna put "daggers through the side of (our) head(s)" and yet you give nothing to back your convictions up. This isn't a guess game... if you are going to make a point, go ahead and make it, but back it up. If you just want to ramble about Assa powers, surely you can go ahead and do that as well. Just don't expect anyone to take what you're saying as factual.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 07:42 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I don't even understand the sentance you wrote... and it's not poor English skills... See, the main problem with your arguments thus far is ambiguity. We are supposed to take it for granted that Assassins are gonna put "daggers through the side of (our) head(s)" and yet you give nothing to back your convictions up. This isn't a guess game... if you are going to make a point, go ahead and make it, but back it up. If you just want to ramble about Assa powers, surely you can go ahead and do that as well. Just don't expect anyone to take what you're saying as factual. Have you even read through the skill listings? Stopped to think about the skill synergy, or Assassin energy management?

The Assassin's primary attribute, Critical Strikes, has an energy return with each critical hit. At Critical Strikes level 10, that energy return is +2. At level 13, it's +3.

With each level in Critical Strikes, we're granted an additional chance (fractions of a percent, I believe) to get a critical hit with our attacks...no matter if those attacks are skills or just the auto-attack.

Within that attribute, we have skills that boost both our critical hit rate, and also the energy return we get from getting critical hits.

On top of that, it's possible that there's a chance to double strike with higher Dagger Mastery. I hear it scales in a similar way to the Critical Strikes thing. And you won't find too many Assassins running without a high Critical Strikes and Dagger Mastery.

And it gets better. Assassins have numerous stance-killer/anti-evasion techniques. Some of those are stances of their own. Some are just regular attacks within Dagger Mastery.

Further, some attacks are dual hits (both hands) and guarantee a critical hit...for both hands I believe.

I lost count there as to how much energy a properly built Assassin can regain throughout a few seconds. +3 from 13 Critical Strikes. +1 from those skills in Critical Strikes. +2 from the dual attack/guaranteed critical.

Right there is +6 energy from one hand, pretty much. You can effectively boost that up to +9 or even +12 occasionally if my math isn't completely off here.

And that's not even including zealous dagger mods, which pretty much double the gain from a single hand.

Not to mention we can get up to roughly 30-something energy from a base 25.

And we have 4 pips of energy regen.

e-denial? Given all of this? You have to do better than that to stop us, man. lol

I wanted you to figure this out on your own. That's why I haven't been spelling things out for you. Other Assassins and I have known about this kind of stuff for a while now, because we've actually taken the time to learn the profession--as much as we can pre-retail, obviously. But the fact remains that Assassins do not suck, especially in the face of e-denial. Assassin energy management is probably the best energy management in the game, and if you look around, you'll see a few people saying that Critical Strikes alone is worth going primary Assassin.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 09:53 - 150

Well, E-Denial works against casters, don't they? AND Energy Storage nor Inspiration makes it up well enough.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Apr 2006 at 11:25 - 151

I wanted you to figure this out on your own. That's why I haven't been spelling things out for you I'm taking this as a direct refusal to contribute beyond your own arguments. I call you out for trolling the mesmer boards, assassin.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

03 Apr 2006 at 12:50 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Have you even read through the skill listings? Stopped to think about the skill synergy, or Assassin energy management?

The Assassin's primary attribute, Critical Strikes, has an energy return with each critical hit. At Critical Strikes level 10, that energy return is +2. At level 13, it's +3.

With each level in Critical Strikes, we're granted an additional chance (fractions of a percent, I believe) to get a critical hit with our attacks...no matter if those attacks are skills or just the auto-attack.

Why +2/+3?

Critical Strikes: For Each rank of Critical Strikes you have, you gaine an additional 1% chance to critical hit. You gain 1 Energy whenever you score a critical hit this way.

+2/+3.... with boost ok but not with normal attacks. I consider your statement here is false. And yes, I tested Assassins, no +2 at lvl 10. You may did a dual attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I think I'll respond to Siren like Siren responds to everyone else.
Mesmers are gonna crush Assassins. If you don't understand, thats my point, go read the mesmer skill list.
/sirenvoice
Or you could, yaknow, contribute to the thread beyond vague allegations that you will destroy distortion.
I'm taking this as a direct refusal to contribute beyond your own arguments. I call you out for trolling the mesmer boards, assassin. Using the Mesmer board to give informations and give it to you and talk about this on Assassins forums, Siren? When you came on this forum at the first time, I knew it you're gonna talked like that but I keep my mouth mostly shut, thinking my builds and stuff for both PvE and PvP when Factions will come out.

As a Mesmer, Ranger and Necromancer, I can say, that Lyssa's secondary profession (A.K.A Assassins) will have a bad time when they will come face to face with mesmers. And this time, I don't keep my mouth shut. Why? Because you try to get informations to make you better and being an anti-mesmer. If you come face to face with me, don't approach me, you dont know how powerful a mesmer can be when he does something else.

As Myself, Francis Demeules,

That's my words.

Your mission has failed, Assassin. Your poison is removed.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

03 Apr 2006 at 13:48 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

As a Mesmer, Ranger and Necromancer, I can say, that Lyssa's secondary profession (A.K.A Assassins) will have a bad time when they will come face to face with mesmers. And this time, I don't keep my mouth shut. Why? Because you try to get informations to make you better and being an anti-mesmer. If you come face to face with me, don't approach me, you dont know how powerful a mesmer can be when he does something else. Lyssa's secondary profession has the word secondary in it. No need to say anything more.

I sign the above post, as a Mesmer and as an Elementalist.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 16:35 - 154

In-game, during the preview event, last weekend, Critical Strikes was closer to what I was describing. The Critical Strikes breakpoints are at 10 and 13. Whatever you're reading on the 'net either reflects a change, or doesn't reflect actual in-game description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I'm taking this as a direct refusal to contribute beyond your own arguments. I call you out for trolling the mesmer boards, assassin.

I don't troll. Never have, never will. What do I have to gain from it? It's a pointless act.

My participation in this thread is my suggestion the Mesmers who think Assassins will be complete fluff should go ahead and see what Assassins are going to be packing. This isn't an unprecedented suggestion, either. How many people really took Mesmers seriously back a few years ago? And look how things have changed there. Same principle here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning

Well, E-Denial works against casters, don't they? AND Energy Storage nor Inspiration makes it up well enough. Yes, and I guarantee you that Assassins do energy management even better than Ether Prodigy+high spell costs+Exhuastion-inducing skills, or E-Drain/Tap, or Ether Lord, or Ether Renewal, or Glyphs of Energy, or Power Drain, etc.

If you really want to e-deny an Assassin, you're going to need to dedicate your entire skillbar to do it. You'll need to strip out 4 pips of energy regen, knock out 30 or so energy, negate the zealous mods, knock out all skills, prevent them from attacking the entire time, disable their anti-evasion skills (and they have a lot of them)...etc. You're basically going to be required to babysit that Assassin the entire time if you want to e-deny.

Do you think that's testament to a weak profession? That in order to effectively e-deny them, you'll have to sit on their face the entire time and devote your entire character to that one goal? Think about that one, lol.

I'd like to re-iterate how odd it is that I'm seen as trolling here. Because I'm not trolling. When I suggest that a few people here take the time to check out what Assassin has to offer, that's not trolling in the slightest. That's an Assassin player speaking from experience. There's some nasty stuff in Assassin...far nastier than you guys are giving them credit for. They're a strong debuffer class, too, much moreso than you guys are giving them credit for.

But if you all still want to believe that Mesmers won't have a problem with Assassins, go right ahead. It's the same kind of pre-retail thought process that found so many Warriors and Monks on the receiving end of a Mesmer assault. People under-estimated Mesmers and look what happened. That under-estimation was based on the same criteria you're using for Assassin-bashing: novice players not fully comfortable with a radically different profession during a weekend preview event.

Be my guest and keep believing that Assassins won't pose much of a threat and keep going back to e-denial and Inept. Dedicated Assassin players know otherwise. And that's just how it works. Go ahead and accuse me of trolling all you want, guys. I came in here to correct a misconception. That's all. But apparently that's completely unheard of? So I get accused of trolling? Where's the logic in that, people? lol

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Apr 2006 at 16:51 - 155

Way of the Empty Palm
For 5..17 seconds, off-hand and dual attacks cost no Energy.

Expose Defenses
For 3..9 seconds, target foe cannot "block" or "evade" your attacks

Beguiling Haze
If target touched foe is casting a spell or suffers from exhaustion, that foe is interrupted and becomes Dazed for 5..10 seconds.

Unseen Fury
For 10..30 seconds, you cannot be blocked, or evaded by Blinded foes.

Way of the Fox
For 10..30 seconds, your next attack cannot miss.

Nine Tail Strike
Must follow an off-hand attack. Nine Tail Strike cannot be "blocked" or "evaded" and strikes for +5..13 damage if it hits.

These are skills that worry me, and they're only a few of the ones that I feel would work well against mesmers. And I didn't take much time going through the list. Yes some are hexes and enchantments, so before you point out all you'll have to do is remove them, the usual cover hex/enchant apply. Notice the number of skills where they cannot miss. What I did not post, but deserves mention, is the number of energy increasing skills. There are a number of them for many given situations, and they have a very nice return (+17 energy on a few). I also didn't post any shadow steping skills, but there are a number that also apply conditions/damage, that don't require a hit to apply.

You are all right in saying that there are many many counters for an assassin. But going so far as to say they are worthless, and a nonthreat is taking it a bit far. You will, at this point, take the list I posted and start listing counters...but we're not going to be able to cover everything. We can't devote our entire skill bar to stopping assassins, but we can't ignore them either.

If I was reading my own post, I'd point out that Warrior's have options to attack without missing as well (ie.. Warrior's cunning, Rigor Mortis) and they don't use them. But I think it will come down to a fundamental difference between Warriors and Assassins that will make these skills essential. A good assassin will not fill his bar with attack skills, and the additional skills he/she brings will be the difference. His role in PvP will not require sustained DPS or pressure, he is going to be a spiker, so he will need to hit everytime. I do not think these skills will be uncommon in PvP.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 17:05 - 156

Despite what you think, Siren, I have read the Assassin skills and I have had a chance to see them used in practice. I am aware of Critical Strikes and their effect but I find your argument lacking.

No 1) You will not be landing CS as often as you think. What the CS attribute does is give a similar effect to an item with + up to 16% chance of landing a CS, which- as we all know- isn't a horrifying number. In fact, weapon masteries give similar effect on Warriors (up to 23%)... I haven't seen Mesmers wriggle in pain after getting a critical by a warrior. Mind you, Dagger Mastery does not have that CS chance into it, instead it gives a double strike chance.

No 2) You are very highly unlikely to have CS pumped up to 13. Primaries are rarely pumped up that high. Warriors can afford it, because they can soak up loads of damage and don't need many points in Tactics or whatever to help them survive. Boon Prots use 15 Divine Favors, because their build is primary-based. Trapper Rangers use 13-15 in Expertise, because they can- again- afford to skip an attribute and pump up just Exp./Wilderness.

Assassins, however, are highly unlikely to do it, because of their extremely low survivability without sufficient amount of points spent on non-dagger and non-CS attributes. I doubt you will see Assas putting more than 9-11 points in CS, they will need the rest to spend elsewhere. So... in the most highly likely and realistic scenario that's 2 nrg per CS with about 9-11% chance to score a CS... I hope I do not need to laugh to get the point across that this is nothing. In comparison Ranger Expertise, severely reduces the cost of ALL skills (36-44% at 9-11), still Rangers get anihilated by Shackwrack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

I wanted you to figure this out on your own. That's why I haven't been spelling things out for you.

I don't tend to talk from an uneducated point of view. When I said I didn't care much about Assa skills and the whole profession, I meant it. I have seen the skills, both on paper and in action, and I have determined that it's just more of the same with a few interesting moves but definitely nothing to sweat about. Of course, you will come up with some annoying moves but does that mean Mesmers need to assume a whole new attitude? No. Inbetween the new and the old Mesmer skills there is plenty for you to worry about.

Quote: Originally Posted by Siren Assassin energy management is probably the best energy management in the game, and if you look around, you'll see a few people saying that Critical Strikes alone is worth going primary Assassin.

Clearly a ridiculous statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax Way of the Empty Palm
For 5..17 seconds, off-hand and dual attacks cost no Energy. Elite skills. Clearly doubt they will ditch their precious elite for this.

Quote: Originally Posted by SnipiousMax Expose Defenses
For 3..9 seconds, target foe cannot "block" or "evade" your attacks Hex... they cannot even adequately cover up hexes... please... Even if we assume they can, our buddy here is bragging about putting 13 points in CS. Inbetween his daggers, CS, shadow arts, AND deadly arts, his points are going to be spread very very thin.

Quote: Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Beguiling Haze
If target touched foe is casting a spell or suffers from exhaustion, that foe is interrupted and becomes Dazed for 5..10 seconds. Ok... I'm no Ele... nevermind the cause-Exhaustion attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Unseen Fury
For 10..30 seconds, you cannot be blocked, or evaded by Blinded foes. And... you think I will be sitting there blinded for 30sec? If we assume this to be an useful skill we might as well start shaking about the Shadow Sig. I'm sure the Monk is taking a cigarette break.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Way of the Fox
For 10..30 seconds, your next attack cannot miss. *sigh*ok, and? You can strike every one in awhile through blindness and certain hexes, that concerns us how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Nine Tail Strike
Must follow an off-hand attack. Nine Tail Strike cannot be "blocked" or "evaded" and strikes for +5..13 damage if it hits. This is actually a decent attack but one of the few. Plus it has 12 sec recharge, so it won't be landing on you non-stop.

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

03 Apr 2006 at 17:28 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Way of the Fox
For 10..30 seconds, your next attack cannot miss. Just a thing, after this attack, bye Way of the Fox.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Apr 2006 at 17:42 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Just a thing, after this attack, bye Way of the Fox. Not quite... but it's still not relevant, in fact, I'd rather they use this to further drain their nrg.

Way of the Fox:

Attribute: Shadow Arts
Type: Enchantment
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1
Recharge Time: 3

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Apr 2006 at 17:43 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Despite what you think, Siren, I have read the Assassin skills and I have had a chance to see them used in practice. I am aware of Critical Strikes and their effect but I find your argument lacking.

See them? Interesting choice of words there. By "see" do you mean you actually played as them? Or by "see" do you mean you only saw random Assassins playing?

Quote:

1) You will not be landing CS as often as you think.

I expect to see +1 and +2 popping up with every attack because I've had it happen pretty much the entire weekend event. And unless they completely nerf the attribute and skills within the attribute before retail, my energy management will do just fine.

Quote:

I haven't seen Mesmers wriggle in pain after getting a critical by a warrior.

Hella, I'm not talking Critical Strikes to do damage. I never was. Assassins use Criticals for something other than higher damage. Re-read my post. If you think Critical hits are used by Assassins for damage boosts...you do not know the first thing about Assassins. lol

Quote:

2) You are very highly unlikely to have CS pumped up to 13.

No, it's very likely. See why below.

Quote: Primaries are rarely pumped up that high. Warriors can afford it, because they can soak up loads of damage and don't need many points in Tactics or whatever to help them survive. Boon Prots use 15 Divine Favors, because their build is primary-based. Trapper Rangers use 13-15 in Expertise, because they can- again- afford to skip an attribute and pump up just Exp./Wilderness. Your comparison is flawed. See below.

Quote: Assassins, however, are highly unlikely to do it, because of their extremely low survivability without sufficient amount of points spent on non-dagger and non-CS attributes. Hella, you're wrong, because the beauty of Shadow and Deadly Arts is that you can place a 7 or 8 in one of them and have them perform more than adequately. Or you could even go with the 10-11-10 attributes, with the 11 going in Dagger Mastery, and using a Superior rune to bring Critical Strikes up to 13. And then what does that mean? You have 10+1 in either Shadow or Deadly Arts.

You haven't played Assassin and it shows.

Quote:

I don't tend to talk from an uneducated point of view. I disagree. You are not demonstrating any understanding of what Assassins are going to be able to do, lol. Your view on Critical Strikes, for example? Poppyc-ck and rubbish.

Quote:

When I said I didn't care much about Assa skills and the whole profession, I meant it. I have seen the skills, both on paper and in action, and I have determined that it's just more of the same with a few interesting moves but definitely nothing to sweat about. "More of the same"? What is that? Enlighten me. Point to another profession currently that can interrupt, Daze, Blind, and inflict Exhaustion in under two attacks. Assassins can do this. Can Mesmers? Rangers? I think a dual Exhaustion is certainly something to sweat about, Hella. Not only will it gimp your spell-casting, but it can't be removed through Mend Ailment.

Or continuous interrupts from melee range? Assassins can do that. We have a lead attack interrupt that's guaranteed to hit. Then once we connect with our lead, there's very little the target can do after that.

You know dual Exhaustion will hurt. And you also are fully aware of how easily Assassins can inflict it. And you know how absurd it is to continue to deny Assassin potential even when all of these abilities and techniques are mentioned time and time again. And yet you still deny Assassins have more potential than you're giving them credit for? Interesting.

Quote:

Of course, you will come up with some annoying moves but does that mean Mesmers need to assume a whole new attitude? You mean when you've just been exhausted twice in the span of 5 seconds? It's very possible, and you can expect Assassins to do it. Will the traditional Mesmer counters help mitigate Exhaustion? Will the old Mesmer attitude help prevent having your energy reserves cut in half? Is dual Exhaustion nothing more than "annoying"?

Quote:

Clearly a ridiculous statement. Play primary Assassin for a few hours at a time and you'll see it's not ridiculous at all. Assassin energy management is unbelievable when you construct the build properly. It's the truth. Call it ridiculous all you want, but Assassins' energy management damn near trumps everything in the game provided the Assassin contructs their builds correctly.

EDIT: Oh, Way of the Fox may work slightly differently than is listed. I wish I could get in-game to check, but it may go something like For X seconds, your next 1-5 attacks cannot miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella

Hex... they cannot even adequately cover up hexes... please... Even if we assume they can, our buddy here is bragging about putting 13 points in CS. Inbetween his daggers, CS, shadow arts, AND deadly arts, his points are going to be spread very very thin. Firstly, we've got cover hexes of our own, Hella.

And secondly, who says anything about needing to use all four attributes to be effective? You're just inventing arguments now. I guarantee you that Assassins will have brutally effective builds using 10-11-10. We don't need Deadly Arts all the time, just like we don't need Shadow Arts all the time.

If you want to say (or imply) we can't do jackshit without "spreading ourselves very very thin," you need to get with the program here. You have absolutely zero idea what effective Assassin build design looks like. You have absolutely zero idea how the skills function at certain attribute levels. You have absolutely zero credibility to knock Assassins based on those criteria. You do not know what you're talking about if you think Assassins need all four attri lines to be effective, or if you think we can't be effective using all four.

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

03 Apr 2006 at 19:58 - 160

i should make a movie once factions comes out, like crouching tiger hidden shank

be like teleport boom, shank mesmer, and run away

but seriously from what i have seen, mesmers are the anti everything, its just what they are, but they also do not have powerful armor, which means if caught off guard they could get slashed up, espcially if 2 assiasins go in with a teleport