Alliance Battles: Quitting and Staying

People like you make the 12 v 12 garbage.

Anet should implement a time ban. If you leave DURING the match, your account would be on a time ban for ALL pvp. Meaning you wouldn't be able to pvp for, let's say, 5 minutes. So if your computer crashes or disconnects or whatever, the time ban would still be ticking even if you aren't logged on. This is good for people who have to leave or whatever. As for disconnects, I don't think 5 minutes is that harsh.

This would curb all the rage quitters out there and hopefully make a more enjoyable experience for the majority of players.

Even though my WLAN disconnects me every now and then, I have to agree that something must be done. Many of the methods above sound great, but I'd be happy with anything that makes ragequitters think twice before insulting the team and leaving.

I dont agree with a penalty for leaving Alliance battles, there is no reason why you should be forced to endure them to the end when its a lost cause. This is because its impossible to recover from a large score difference when the teaming is kept random. The disorganization means that if one side has a definite advantage, the battle is over. Under these circumstances, it might be best to save everyone some time and leave.

However, I've seen people that leave immediately when they see that their team has no monk or similar character that they consider essential. One person in particular quit with the following words "lol no MM bye". Therefore if there is a punishment system, it should only be applied before a certain score has been reached. Also, it should not be very harsh (at the very most, a few faction points from your faction of choice, nothing else.)

Normally, I'd sign this, but I'm going to have to say no. You have some good ideas, like if they log off completely they're faction is refunded, but you also say they need to be off for an hour. This is pretty silly, in my opinion.

While I do think people should suck it up and stay in-game, we all have bad days, and the problem with making them stay logged off for an hour is simply because, what about disconnection errors? What if they trip their cord, or the power trips in their house? What if their modem screws up and disconnects them? What if their computer freezes? ALL of these things could easily happen to people during alliance battles, people get disconnection errors all the time, but does this mean that just because they got disconnected they should have to stay off for an hour just so they don't lose faction? HELL NO. Granted, I didn't read through every single post in the entire thread to see if I'm restating points (if I am it's better for emphasis), but as we see in the OP there are MANY reasons one could get disconnected from the game unwillingly. But just because they get disconnected does not mean they should have to stay off for an hour or any sort of time period just to keep themselves from losing faction.

If you want to punish people for getting pissed and quitting the fight, send them an angry whisper or something. But because of so many possibilities as to why someone would log off or get disconnected, you can't just throw a punishment on them. Mainly because any punishment you can think of is going to be flawed in that it won't be able to tell the reason why someone got disconnected. They won't know if they clicked the wrong button, tripped a cord, power went out, modem problems, game error, or anything of the sort---but people shouldn't have to stay logged out because of these just so they don't get punished.

Both sides are going to have lame peoples who quit when they're angry, deal with it better than the other side or find a better group. But you can't know the reason as to why someone might've logged, and because of this they can't put a punishment on it.

Does it suck? Yeah, it sucks, but you'll have to deal with it. The best thing you can hope for is to replace them with a henchie, because punishments make no sense.

It's not that hard to write up something that can differenciate between a quit, and a disconnect.

Of course, if that was ever implemented then people would go to more lengths just to make it seem like a disconnect so they don't get penalized, which puts us back to where we are.

There really would be no point in it anyway, since it's easy for anyone to "disconnect" but it's hard for one to determine why. If you don't know the reason why, then how can you issue a just punishment?

We really just have to suck it up and acknowledge the fact that this is not going to go away any time soon, it's been around since the game first started and it's there to stay. Pray that maybe they'll allow them to be replaced with henchmen, or something.

I shouldn't have to be forced to suck it up. The preview is giving me exactly that. A preview of the game. 12 v 12 is the funnest part of it, but frankly, it enrages me the most with the quitters. Unless I hear something from Anet about the quitting issue, I won't be buying the game.

/signed

totally agree to punish them for waisting our time.

It's a very serious issue that needs to be addressed.
Although you can't make the punishment too immediate incase it was actually an accident or emergency.
HOWEVER! IF the persons actions are repeated again..... and again..... its obvious they are idiots who SHOULD be punished.
No-one is going to ACCIDENTLY have multiple powercuts. No-one is going to ACCIDENTLY need to phone for an ambulance every match. And if its a computer problem, fix it before jumping straight back into GW. It's not impossible to seperate the two categories.

So something along the lines of this :

1st quit within an hour = nothing
2nd quit within an hour = warning message
3rd quit within an hour = 1000 faction lost
4th quit within an hour = 24 hour ban

Count me in as signed. Quitters are the number one most annoying thing I find about the game. And for these battles to work and to be any fun, there HAS to be some punishment for quitting. Otherwise these few rotten eggs will ruin it for everyone.

As for people with bad connections....sorry, but if your connection is that bad to disconnect all the time...well you werent going to be able to play anyway. And this is from someone who doesnt have the steadiest of connections.

Doesn't solve anything IMO.

If you get punished for leaving I'm afraid for the following; people will just stay connected but stay idle, just as bad.

No, it's not just as bad. It's better than doing nothing to punish them. If they're idle then at least they cant grief other matches.

/Sign

I've become quite annoyed with all the people quitting. Doesn't matter if its from err7, lag, or they're from the opposing team just trying to make an unfair advantage. It's got to stop.

Even worse than rage quitters are noobs that ruin the game like sacrifice themselves to death or running to enemy base defence, so that enemies can gain point from it. I have seen a mesmer (with sup runes I) and kept spamming illusion of weakness then died instantly. That happened even before the battle started. Everyone was like "OMG dont kill yourself, fight with us!" and I said "Ignore him he just wants our attention, focus on battle" and a minute later he left coz no one gave a shit what he did. I think he just wanted to pissing off other players. This is only preview event, I can imagine more people (no life noobs) will be doing this in the real game for their own twisted pleasure.

I do realise that it will be quite difficult to properly implement a penalty system of any kind regarding the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battle quiters. This I have stated under "My Thoughts".

What I want to see is there should be some changes made to the current 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles so that in the event that people rage quits, the remaining players' 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles gaming experience is not affected that much.

1 hour is too long, many have pointed out, I have changed it to 5 minutes, please review and comment.

I have also added in Sakashi's idea about dealing with the "obvious" rage quiters. Those who quit for many times within the same hour.


Did anyone read through the other suggested ideas? I am refering to the non-punishing ideas.

2. Allow henchies as replacements
5. Increase the rewards for the players who did not quit
6. Accelerated victory
7. Losing Side's Last Resort
8. Reduce overall score required
9. Accelerate score gaining rate

Idea 2, 6 and 9 might work.


As stated under "My Thoughts", the main reason why I did the poll was to find out what do the player community of Guild Wars think of the rage quiters issue in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles.

From the results, I concluded that many people think that the quiters deserved to be punished. Why? Perhaps it is because these people's 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles' gaming experience is ruined by the rage quiters.

Hence, I believe something must be done.
ANET, please review the following proposed ideas.

2. Allow henchies as replacements
5. Increase the rewards for the players who did not quit
6. Accelerated victory
7. Losing Side's Last Resort
8. Reduce overall score required
9. Accelerate score gaining rate


Again, to all those who provided feed back, proposed ideas, I thank you for your contribution. Let us all help to make Guild Wars a better game.
Cheers.

Yes, ragequitters must pay for their childish temper tantrum behavior.

I think a 5 minute outage of pvp is acceptable. This doesn't punish the genuine people who drop connection etc. Or at least not be able to connect to a new pvp until the pvp they quit is finished.
This is generally stop impatient people from being lame, maybe this could work well with some kind of accelerated winning system metioned before. Say you hold all control points for 2 minutes say. (although if that happens, your pretty much won already)

Faction penalties (especially 1k) is a bit extreme. Maybe only for people who obviously do it to try break the game. Eg. a guild farming factions by immediate quitting so their guildies can pretty much walk over with a 4 man advantage. But even then, I think it should be left to the discretion of a mod/gm.

Does anyone else find it funny that this is getting so much attention now when it's been going on in Random Arena ever since there's been a Random Arena?

Anyway, I'm fine with it being just a 5 minute penalty. An hour is way too harsh. Sometimes my router hangs and I get disconnected. Sometimes, especially during the summer months, my power "blinks" off for about a second or so. It's enough to disrupt my modem, router, and computers. 5 mins is about enough time for me to make sure everything is back to normal and working before I get back in game.

No punishment is neccessary, for two reasons:

1) When the game actually comes out you can bet there will be more guild groups in each game, which means not only less quitters, but a better chance to win even if you do have quitters.

2) People will eventually realize that it is to their advantage to stay in the game even if they're losing. With less quitters the losing team will get more points, and more points means more faction. Currently, when the game ends, you get faction equal to the number of points you have plus 250 if your side wins. Leavers will get less faction over time, meaning more will be educated, and you will get less leavers. Even in 10v12 one side is at a disadvantage, but one that is able to be overcome.


I'm also under the impression that in the final game alliance battles will be for alliances, and the current system is only there to show the AvA gameplay off.

Battles Random Arena in ends very quickly. In 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles, when a team has secured all 7 strategic points, and the losing team has many rage quiters, it will take quite some time for the score to auto-tick up to 500.


I certainly hope that is not the case. If you deny people without guilds or not in an alliance to participate in the Alliance Battles, you will make a lot of people unhappy.

At the moment, 12 vs 12 is like a bigger Random Arena, except that the main idea is to capture and secure the strategic points. I can just click "Enter Mission" alone and still be paired up with 11 other people and join an Alliance Battle right away.

If you make it compulsary to must have a group of 4 players before you can click "Enter Mission", then it will only be like the current "Heroes Ascent". I do not wish to see that happen.

Oh I know. I just think it's a bit amusing that rage quitting has always been a problem before and it's taken something like this for most people to want something done about it.

Also, I'd really like it if you could have the option to go with a team in the 8v8, even if it were just a team of 4, with the other slots being filled with random people/another group of 4 that just happened to be grouped with you. It would work like TA where you could go in with 3 other people but you could also just hit the enter mission button and take your chances.

My idea is a little bit.... cruel

If a person quits from any pvp they are not allowed to enter any new pvp events until the one they quit is over. Then he gets a "penalty token" before he can pvp again he needs to pay off his penalty tokens. To pay then off he enters pvp but is now stuck in a body called a "court Jester" that when killed gives the killers party a 5% moral boost. Each time he gets killed 1 penalty token is erased. The ammount of penalty tokens you gain depends on the ammount of times before that you have quit.

So On and So Forth.

The first part is an idea, but the court jester part would just give a large disadvantage to the team that player is on. It would also punish those who lost connection or so forth. The only punishment that can really work is a pvp time ban.

Ahh But the idea is this: if you are leave alot the punishment gets to the point where it realy IS a punishment. But if you get Disconnected in any form it will be so little that you will be laughing your @$$ off running around the map trying to get people to kill you. Also every 2 or so days the number of times you "leave" gets reduced by 1 so it isnt a permanent account disadvantage.

But you still haven't accounted for the team that the player is on, and if you have to wait until that game is over, then it completely eliminates any reason to leave other that real-life calling, in which the time ban won't affect you.

And I don't think most people would be lauging about getting a disconnect and then having to do some stupid crap before they can play again.

then they should relearn the definition of a game. anyone who takes it that seriously shouldnt be playing in the first place. its the people with the rage to quit that will get punished. the people who got kicked would just be confused and be like "oh whatever I need to die once before I can play again? wierd. Let me go die once, it will only take a minute!"

Im gald someone started a forum about this because it's really making me mad. I've been doing alot of the allanice battles and for the most part there cool except for one thing, the leaves. Several things have happened to me that angered me.
1) One time I got in to the battle, and we had no monks (ok that was fine with me most of the time i don't have monks and i still win), a couple of the player were like "NOOB GROUP NO MONKS LOSERS" than they leave. I was like "OMFG WTF why do you even play this game"
2) I was in a couple of battles like these. The times starts and we go out, we start fighting and one or two people on are team died. I was alittled bother by it but i die sometimes to. However people on are team saw this and than all of a sudden half the team RQ'S and we only have like 4 people left so I stay untill the score is like 305 to 51 and then I leave (the only time I've left and alliance battle). I get back in to base and I'm pissed at the people who go and RQ. The thing that Relly PISS ME OFF was I go again and the same RQer are there again, and when the first person died they all RQ agian. Just because someone dies doesn't mean you give up and quit, I guarantee you that everyone has or will died at least once in a alliance battle.
3) THe third on is there a groups of people who I swear go off and et themselves kill to just have a excuse to RQ. I was playing a monk in one of these things, and I have this warrior that I'm Tag-Teaming with, He all of a sudden decides to run in the luxon base (I'm Kurzick) where he's Auto-Killed, he then yells and swears at me for not healling him (How are u goign to heal a 999dmg spike) he than calls me a noob and leavea, which causes 4 other people to leave.
4) The forth and last one, and the one the one which I thing is really Cheap is. I playing and just as the map starts about 3 people on my team team chat and say "F*** the Kuricks we're and our guild is luxon" Then they RQ.

Some thing needs to be done about this. Some of my friends we're talking about this, and came up with this. If you RQ on a Alliance Battle that Equals Auto-Ban. I know that would be a harsh punishment but it would stop people from doing it. I think they should have a light penality starting out with and it gets more severe if you keep on doing it, the most severe would be Auto-Ban.
One last thing is you shouldn't get faction for quiting, its just a stupid idea because the RQer still get factions. If you got Fame for quiting in HoH you'd have thousands of R12 Idiot Noobs walking around, just because they RQ'ed there way there.

Well thats my little rant ( ), RQers need to be Punished. So with That This is a very big
/Signed

/signed
and i like the idea of replacing the quitters

/signed
yea something has to be done, I swear some of these idiots have this motto of "I'm s0 1337 that if I die Its h4x and I have to go report"

Also to help the team they left, that that team should get like a moral boost to help them out at least a little bit.

I haven't quit in an alliance battle, but seeing how the faction is distributed at the end of the match, I don't think that you would gain faction if you quit before then.

Yes punish them

yes definately punish them. like points 4 and 5.

Accidents happen:
- err 007, 058, etc
- Internet Connection issues
- PC crashes
- etc

So do emergencies:
- wife, kids, family, etc
- etc

However, if accidents and emergencies happen repeatedly, for example if a player can quit an 12 vs 12 Alliance Battle more than 10 times in less than an hour, and his excuses being:
- PC crashed
- Disconnected
- etc

That is just ridiculous.


If your:
- PC Crashed, Fix it
- Disconnected, Check what's wrong with your internet connection.
- etc

Accidents and emergencies do happen, but if they happen for more than 10 times during less than an hour, I don't call those accidents and emergencies.

/not signed

First, connection problems. Second, sometimes your team are assholes, cant work as a team, are idiots, or are being dominated. If your team doesnt know how to play, wont listen, and is being beaten 400-100 is it that bad to quit? And what if half your team already quit.

I think every thirty seconds, a person that clicks join party solo should have a chance to join a game already in action f someone quits, as long as its still close.

About this allience thingy, is it at your guild Hall??
I talked to this dude and he has Allience battle written on him. Just wanted to make sure if is correct

Something has to be done. Whether it's temporary bans, faction penalties, or whatever, it can't stay like it is. Hopefully something will be put into place before release, but somehow I doubt it.

The first part of your post, I completely don't agree with. Knowing full well how parties are set up for Alliance battles, if you go in, you should STAY in it, regardless of how retarded the rest of your team members may be.

It's a lottery man, and you win some and you lose some...your teammates being retarded isn't a good enough reason to quit as you knew full well before starting that there was a chance you'd be grouped with those kinds of poeple and you ACCEPT those chances when you hit the "Enter Mission" button.

For the second part...that I'll have to agree with.

If we add a penalty for leavers in Alliance battles, what happens if you leave when half your team is gone? You shouldn't be penalized should you?

You're just contributing to the mindset that it's ok to quit. And that would be retarded to quit at 400-100. The 100 faction you woul gain from staying may not be that much, but the game isn't going to last more than a few minutes more if you are getting slaughtered like you said.

/signed

/signed

What is the point to join a battle if you cant face defeat?
sure~ sometime you run into people that have no clue what so ever about pvp, but hey, they are doing it=P
if you quit, you are even more useless then those who cant take orders

grey name in party list= ghost

dont use other's quit as your excuse to quit, that is just as low

Hopefully when the game is released you will have to be a member of a faction to fight in its battles. Maybe they should have "mercy" scores. If you are behind x number of points with x number of people left it's all over.
.
The real problem is griefers who leave to piss people off. If people leave in CA its over in a minute, but in Alliance it seems to take forever before its over. Also I'm not sure it would be fair to punish people who leave when the score is so far out of hand that there is no hope and half the team left in the first two minutes. I stick it out for my 150 faction but its frustating.

I do think there is a learning curve about dying. It takes a while to get used to the fact that, if your'e a warrior for example, you are going to die a lot. With assassins laying degens on you and no monks around you are dead.

I played in one match last night where nobody on either side left and it went down to the wire with about 20 points difference at the end. One of the most enjoyable times I've had in the game. Even the losing team thought it was great.

One of the problems with punishing leavers would be a change in tactics to just being AFK until match is over.

If ANET charged a monthly fee do you think it would cut back on the people who can ruin your enjoyment in so many ways or is that just wishful thinking on my part.