Alliance Battles: Quitting and Staying

Yes. Punish Them

Leavers and RageQuitting has been a problem before, but with the advent of Alliance Battles, ArenaNet has to do SOMETHING about this problem before it escalates. This beta weekend should be more than enough to prove that.

Leavers should lose Faction points for fleeing from battle.

I hope ANET will consider some of the options that people have come up with.

Something must be done.

Punish
/signed

I am already on the agree list as one of the first, but I must say there are many good ideas in this thread.

(BTW Ive came back after the opposing team had all 7 for over 2 minutes)

The ones I like the best are the increased insentive for staying, but then again if people have to go...they would just leave GW running to get the bonuses. This would solve the leavers and disconnection problems though.

Perhaps you get booted if you have not had any activity in say...45 seconds?

I must say I would love to see the henchmen replacements as well. Perhaps the lost faction is divided up even though the players were replaced with henchmen?

I didn't see my name on the agree list so...
/signed
(Hopes ANet at least looks at his henchie replacement idea)

/notsigned on 3A's account

I'd sign it on the rest, but I don't like the instant punishment/faction penalty to the point that I won't sign a petition with that as a possibility. My connection is bad. Not terrible, I'd guess 1 out of 50 battles or so I would d/c. I can't get any better where I live, and its not a case where some days are significantly worse. I know ANet won't implement a penalty in case of d/cs by people, but as long as that option remains, I won't sign. I usually play the profession generally most hated for rage-quitting (monk) and occasionally d/c, yes it sucks for my group, I'd love a way to not cause that problem. You asked for my opinion, that's my opinion.

The rest of the options are excellent, and I would love to see at least one implemented.

Agree with punish

Connection or crashes may happen some times, but its a one time situation.

Some days my connection only stays ok for like 10-20 min, in that days i just dont do pvp, because i dont think its ok to be screwing other players game because of my problems, its 1 day in like 2 months, no big deal.

No one will have problems similar to this every day and continue playing this game....


/signed

I think this thread have evolved into something else, something better I reckon.

When I first made this thread, I was thinking on how to punish those rage quiting mofos, but then I realise that a penalty system would be very hard to implement, one can say is near impossible.

It would better to come up with methods to lessen the burden of the remaining players who did not quit, hence the many other suggestions.

However, I believe the polls of "punish" or "not punish" made it very clear that a lot of people were not pleased by the rage quiting activities in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles. Well, now we all can just hope that something will be done to remedy this problem when Factions is released on 28th April 2006.

By the way, does anyone thinks that the title of this thread should be changed to something better? Or it does not matter if the title changes or not, since we still can discuss about various means(non punishing) to fix this issue of rage quiters in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles.

And yes, if anyone have any more ideas(non-punishing) about how to fix the issue of rage quiters in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles, please do share with us.
Cheers.

Here's my idea:
For each person that left before the end of the game, each player on their team recieves and additional 25 faction. Also, the leavers cannot join pvp again until the match they left from is over.

the qitters abe pver playrs trying things out and not liking it

Changed the thread's title to more accurately depict what's contained in it.

This has many excellent ideas and I hope a.net is listening.
However, I believe rage quiting will reduce slightly over time. I'm not sure the people who quit realize that you still get faction even if you lose. Maybe if that was explained to them, or after time and it was promoted more in the community, it won't be as big of a problem.
Even so, that's just wishful thinking. There are many good points that I completely agree with.

Alright, like I said before, I don't like the idea of rage quitters, nor do I like being the lone man out. But I am thinking a bit more about the implications.

Punishing the leavers is probably not going to happen... lets be honest. ANet has said in the past that they will not punish folks for leaving, due to emergencies, disconnects, and just general real life needs.

This said, the incentives proposed are... ummm... a bit shortsighted. With the advent of Fame Farming in the HoH, I can see several problems developing with this:

1. Increased Faction reward to the folks left behind. 3 Guildies drop at the end of the battle to make sure their buddy gets the increased reward.

2. Group will have 3 members drop right as the team is about to fill the requirements for a reduced victory. I.E. Team 1 has almost gotten the points, grabs the points, than 3 members (or more) drops off. And the victory conditions are fulfilled.

3. In HoH, I've seen battles that last for a long time because of a runner... especially against the IWAY builds. I can see that as time goes on if one person gets left, the other team will feel cheated that their faction and xp is gonna get lowered and that they will hold off on victory as long possible punished the person who stays behind. Though they could be gaining more points, they feel it necessary to punish someone by not getting a quick victory, forcing them to stay behind as they toy with them.

Normally, the rage quitters leave missions, teams, and groups because of an initial failure in there group. I have watched a team disintegrate in HoH when one member was slow in loading. This made the rest of the people believe that the person was a noob, as they didn't have HoH decompressed. So when the person had got there, 4 peeps had already left. The person I found out had deleted GW.dat to get a fresh load... sigh.

I think that if you are going to punish the rage quitters, who leave normally because of a mistake made within in their team or because their build is completely incompatible with the other 2 teams, perhaps something should be done to the other 2 teams. A punishment for having a compatible build... make the 1000 faction loss for rage quitting, than 750 for the member's of the quitters team, than 500 for each other team member. Afterall, it is not the ragequitter's fault, he simply found himself in a hopeless situation brought on by other peoples' failures.

People will find ways to exploit any incentive system, ways to get around any method of punishment, and ways manipulate the mechanics behind the ideas.

I think any implementation of punishments, incentives, or such will have to wait until after C2 is up and running and the exploits and nerfing is done.

/still not signed

people dont always quit because of the team and if they do they should still be punished because:

In about 4 games before the gates have even opened people have left.. wats the excuse for that.. i dont believe all of these were d/c's prob along the lines of OMG no monk!

ive seen people leave because the score was 36 v 87.. seriously with the length of the battles can the outcome be determined so soon? and these people are the worst jus glory hunters, cant bring anything to the team so only play on a winning side, its random teams deal with your losses and learn from them

but sayin that punishment might not be the way, how about if theres less then 6 players or if the ratio of team a v team b is under a certain amount then the team with the least players can vote on ending the match (call it Retreat from Battle or something) and the game will calculate the scores assuming no more kills near the shrines and give out faction accordingly, that way at least u dont have to hang about for 10 mins waiting for the battle to end so u can collect ur faction

Just make it so that faction points are shared only among the remaining people. If you leave you get nothing, if you stay you get a bigger cut of the factions.

atm each person gets however many points there team got.. so if u lose with 236 points u all get 236 faction each

Please tell me what are the incentives for doing this? Do realise that the "3 guildies" who dropped will get no factions, and the "increased reward" that the 4th guildie gets will not outweight the factions that the 3 guildies lost. The player gets zero factions if he/she quits before the battle has ended.

Again, I fail to see what are the benefits of doing this. Please explain.


What are you talking about? You are not making any sense!

Look, mate, you are not making any sense in here.

This is the perfect solution. It wouldn't punish people who HAVE to go, or people whose internet disconnected. Only those who deserve to be punished. It would also stop saboteurs from disconnecting immediately.

Haven't got the time to read though the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been suggested.

I think that when somebody quits an alliance game, the next 30 second countdown should replace lost players with new ones from the towns. Obviously the party size would have to match the missing number of players (i.e if a player tries to join on his own, he will fill 1 missing slot, rather than pulling somone out of a 4 man party)

Rage quitters really annoy me, particularly the ones that quit when the game is 120/70 or something like that. By quickly filling in that missing space, we could have some really good even alliance battles. Currently you have a knock on effect whereby when one person leaves, others leave until only a few are left. If you can fill those missing slots quickly then that snubs out the knock on rage quit chain.

[I've posted this once elsewhere, but this is a good thread for it, please add it to the list on the OP.]

I've got a simple solution to the leavers - reward those who stay behind (as now), but reward them based upon the number of people left in the team:

During the FPE, the victory bonus on faction has been a 1.5 multiplier - first to 500, each member of the team gets 750.
Losing team members get 1xpoints.

So, total points pool on a full 12 player victorious team is 9000 (12x1.5x500)

Now, if you said - thats the total points pool, and it will be split evenly depending upon the number of people left in the team at the end (and this works for both winning and losing team), then suddenly, if you quit out becuase you team was down to 6 players, and you had 250 points on the board just before it was about to end, you'd be missing out on 500 faction. (250*12/6)

More than that, by dropping out you'd be gifting the remaining players on your team your share of the pot, so they'd get 600 faction rather than 500.
(250*12/5)

Suddenly you've given a people a huge competitive dissincentive to quit - other people get rewarded for you dropping out - they'll get 15k armour sooner.

Not possible, as everything in GW is set to a 30 second repeating countdown timer.
Although this is a good idea, it won't happen due to the need to have disconnected player slots on the party window.
Deducting faction would be a good idea, except it would be hard to implement, especially if they do not yet have any (ie they are trying to rig the match in favor of the other side on purpose)
Guild Wars can't read excuses through teamspeak, or even in the chat. A-net does not have the staff to look through those excuses.
Guild Wars also does not bind a player to a battle with local variables. If you leave, the game thinks you were never there.
They are already getting faction for not leaving.
Then there would be even less reason for everyone else to continue, since they can't get full faction. Instead, try this: Whenever someone leaves a team, that teams scores +30 points. They could also change it so that every consecutive leaver gives extra points (first gives 15, second gives 20, 3rd gives 25, etc.)
The 5 minute ban is a good idea. Long enough to make people not quit, yet short enough that if a power outage or lag spike caused leaving, it would take that long anyway to get back on.

Yep, the 3 quitting guildies won't get a dime of faction... but there guild chum will, i.e. they are sacrificing some of their own points to power faction a new member. Not likely, but something I can see happening on occasion.

The second quote refers to a scenario like this: Team 1 is near on completing enough to get a victory if one of their players drop (or two or three), so the team waits til the victory condition is within their grasp, and than drops away, sacrificing again some faction to ensure a win.

The next part refers to a punishment tactic I've seen done by a few players in HoH. One of the team is still standing dancing around, not allowing the true winners to actually win. What I am afraid will happen is that a 12x12 match will degenerate into is about a 6x12, where part of the full team is so irked that they will not kill off the 6 members for as long as possible. Due to the fact they were cheated the xp and faction from their kills. I.E. dragging the game out knowing that if the 6 remaining players leave they will be punished and will stay. This isn't necessarily a big problem as I see most players wanting to move on, but let's face it, we have all ran into some immature players who don't mind punishing others.

9 times out of 10, when I have PM'd a quitter after they left it is because they believe that their team was composed of noobs or had some inappropriate build. I normally PM them to give them a bit of mind... some completely hateful comment... being a bit immature I know. One example: in RA I got onto a team where there was one W/Mo, Me/? (Can't remember), R/Me, and myself (N/Me). The Wammo left immediately... so I PM'd him to find out what his schtick was... he replied that the team had a bunch of Mesmers in it and couldn't win. So he ragequit because of our composition... hence, it wasn't his fault he left it was ours cause we were noobs. We beat the other team out of sheer determination, skill, and a whole lot of LUCK. I meant this part to be a joke, about punishing the leaver's team, but since it got brought up... I'll stick to it.

Again, I'm absolutely for a method to punish rage-quitters, if it didn't punish people for real life, disconnects, drops, or any other legitimate reasons for leaving the game. I think rage-quitters rate right up with scammers... and deserve about the same punishment, but until you can come up with a method of discerning the two... than I have no want to punish the innocent. I

In HoH, I was playing a bonder (like 3rd time). We were at the courtyard... and were doing very well. A friend of mine was coaching me on how to play a bonder. Anyways, I get a phone call... A friend of mine had been in a car accident and wasn't expected to live... by the time that phone call had came to me, he was already dead, but I didn't know that at the time.

So I popped off a message to the rest of the team... "Real life just happened in that fatal sort of way. Sorry, but I gotta go."

So, I left. Turned off the laptop, more like slammed it closed, and zipped to the hospital.

Now, I realize that this is just an unfortunate series of events, but it would have been very annoying had I been stripped of xp, fame, faction, or anything because of a real life issue. Video games are here to help us relieve some stress of our every day worldly lives by submerging us in a digital, stress free environment... Had ANet punished me for having to go to the hospital, I probably would have uninstalled the game and found something else.

And I will be the first to admit, my last post was very incoherent. I had spent a bit too much time playing Factions and avoiding my pillows this weekend. Anyways, come up with a method that punishes people for actually rage quitting and not having a real life interference issue and I'll sign this petition in a heartbeat...

I'm afraid the best thing I can do right now is continue to disagree until somebody comes out with a bullet proof and ANet proof method. I haven't yet, but if I do, I'll share.

Aye, , I'm sorry to hear about your friend's demise.
My condolences.

And yeah, this post is more readable and understandable than your last.
Well, about punishing, there is a way.

Suggested method
Only punish the player if:
- Quits an Alliance Battle and is still playing Guild Wars
- Log off Guild Wars and log back, in less than a minute
(I don't think disconnects or pc crashes can be resolved in less than a minute)


About the increased rewards, oh maybe just forget that, since that can be exploited blah blah blah.

How about this?

9. Accelerate score gaining rate (by Jag Mountaintop)
- increase the rate at which the score ticks.
- more score gained if the strategic point is captured for longer period of time
perhaps:
if a strategic control point is secured for at least
- 1 minute, 2 points
- 2 minutes, 4 points
- 3 minutes, 8 points
gained, from that strategic control point, during the score ticks interval


This method will accelerate the battles, because if a strategic point is captured and secured longer, the more points it will generate during each tick.

In terms of punishing people, the simplest (and most efficient) solution is to hit them where it hurts: the ego.

The problem is not the casual leaver, but if someone has a ratio of leaves in alliance battles joined of more than 1/4, it is pretty clear that they are a chronic leaver, and will continue to do so.

Since the game keeps track of what areas you enter (try going into a mission about 50 times, killing the same mob and then rezoning... they will tell you plainly that you are doing the same thing and there will be no more drops) it would be very easy to watch for repetitive leaving behavior. Granted, this will not stop them from just staying there, but this means they cannot just rezone and hurt other games, thus cutting down on the harm they can do.

As for the punishment...
In Sacred, the game automatically looked at your character and could tell if you had used cheat codes (single player game) but if you ever joined a multiplayer game, your normal armor was replaced with something that looked like a bunny suit. It didn't matter what armor you were wearing, and changing it had no effect, you always had the bunny suit.

In GW, the armor is the pride and joy of every character, imagine having to run around in a Bunny Suit (or whatever) because you had been flagged as a leaver. Call it "The Bunny Suit of Shame"

/signage to the new vote...

Somehow I don't think that one's gonna have any no votes, so I guess it's basically a 'petition'

Punish .... Bambo Shoots under the fingure nails

/signed

Punish!

Should be a 10-30 minute penalty of not being able to join another alliance battle. Short enough so if you have a real problem such as poweroutage, you dont get punished and long enough so that people cant join,quit,join,quit,join, etc....

/sign

/sign

However I would like to make a further suggestion, it has come to my knowledge that a lot of so called rage quitters are simply players of either side, trying to give their particular side an unfair advantage.

For example, I was in a battle on the side of the Kurzicks, and there was a couple of players who were affiliated with the Luxions on our team, they would delibratly sacrifice themselves to give the Luxion team points, When the match started the Luxions had 30 or 40 plus points, also these players would just quit, giving the Luxion team an unfair advantage. I heard it would happen on both sides. It got to the point where I did not want to play alliance battles ever. It pains me to see half the team gone, and the other team full, and the score Kurzicks= 82, Luxions= 505

I think there needs to be an admendment to the game, in PVP and guilds, once the leader chooses a particular side, only that sides alliance battles will be avalible, and as for PvE, you have to befriend a particular side before you can enter a alliance battle. Also if you are caught quitting more then ten times, on any particular side, you are banned from partisapateing on that sides alliance battle for a period of six months, or altogether.

It is that kind of exploited cheating that sours the game for everyone on both sides.

/signed.

My suggestion would simply be a 30 minute time-out after dropping out of a match - they're dropping out because they feel they can farm faction more efficiently by entering another match, after all, and a 30 minute time-out would change that equation completely.

And yes holding all 7 points for more than, say, 2 minute should equal winning.

30 minutes is better for a time ban, if that is the route people want to go. A factions battle lasts less than 30 minutes, generally, so people would be better off simply staying and dealing with it. Additionally, 30 minutes is not so long that if someone drops, they're screwed for the rest of the day. Also, the time ban would only apply to faction battles, so they could still go play pve while waiting if they got dropped.

Edit: Whoops, I just noticed Numa recommended the exact same thing...

30 minute timed out sounds well and good until you are the one locked out because of a server glitch. If guild wars could distinguish different types of leaving, I could easily create a disconnect glitch. This type of punishment system will only cause more problems.

A good portion of rage quitting is justified. If the match really is over, why hang around? Blatant insults from teammates can also justify a rage quit. I can take a ton of ridcule, but once in the while someone crosses a line (we all have a line where it is just better to leave).

The common sense option is to add a hench for the dropped player(s). This seems feasible and fair and difficult to abuse. If I were to get an important phone call while in a battle, I could drop without hurting my team.

I like number 4. If they can delay observer mode for 15 minutes, then they can disable alliance battles for that person until the deserted battle ends.

more problems that need to be addressed:

1)People should be lvl20 to do battle.
This should apply to CA also, just as high level players should not be able to ruin the fun in low level arenas, low level players should not be able to ruin the fun in high level arenas.
2)Do something about griefers.
I ran into this twice during the weekend, players were joining the Kurzick side in 4 man groups and intentionally trying to get us to lose.

/signed the 5 mins ban

They can always change it. There is also a timer countdown in WoW BG (pardon me for mentioning it but as an example, allow me), they can implement it ^^

They can always change it. ^_^ They can change the party system to remove those who outside of the instance already. There's no reason to keep them in the list anyway, be it PvE or PvP.

I'm not sure if this thread has covered sabotage as well, but I'd like to drop my 2 cents on that, although I'm rather sure it will be simply resolved in factions by not allowing a kurzik to enter the luxon side and vice versa.

After virtually dominating the 12v12 over the course of 3 days on the side of the Luxons(Finished up with a record of 44-3), boredom overcae me. I don't show any contempt for the Kurzicks but I thought I'd have a bit of fun with them. Me and 3 other friends actually organized a miniature Edge bomb. As soon as all (or most) of the palyer loaded in, we'd ball up, the rezmer would buff her health, and we'd sac, quick rez, sac, repaeat. We effectively scored around 60 points for the Luxons before the match even started. Needless to say something should be done about this.

Hmmm, was I suggesting something,...err...I think I was just bragging about being an asshole actually. GG.