Anet doesn't care about PvE?

with factions now it requires guild wars players to play as a TEAM, so there for you cant always go out and solo, and solo, and solo some more. The new aspect is great and creates a sense of patriotism with which faction you decide to join

If I missed it then the game has failed some where. If I mised it other people have missed it. That is why there is alot of people not satisfid with the mossion or story of the game.


I think the more lore the better. It enrichies the world or game that you are playing. look at lord of the rings it is in a war setting there is alot of lore in the book, It even has a map. That is what makes it so fun to play.

I think that rpg can still be done in a group setting I will give an example.

say your on a team of people doing a quest or mission. Your team is fighting a boss, the boss into a tunnel. Your hole team follows this boss in to the tunnel. you can't find the boss but there is two path ways. Your team is now forced to chose a path way. By chosing the path you took can affect the mission or story , This would be rpg.

You also can have it so that you charactor history choices can affect the team. Even you class or or what you are wearing should affect your npcs and mossions as well as quests.

FYI: I went to a Jadite trader and dropped all my Faction, just to see, and checked in with a merchant after each reward acceptance. From 10,000 to 0, they remained hostile to me, only returning to friendly when I started PvPing for one side or the other again. Did they remain friendly with you as you cashed in and lowered Faction? If so one of us should probably report this to the Official Bug Thread in the Factions Forum.

EDIT: or, worse, Anet really does hate me

If that choice has any effect outside that one mission, then it's next to impossible. ANet then has to keep every character's choice regarding that mission on their servers. They have to make multiple versions of any portion of the game farther in that's affected. They have to make sure people only form groups with others who made exactly the same choices. That kind of divergence simply isn't possible in an MMO game. There is exactly one world, and everyone stays in it.

Unfortunately I doubt he is. That's one of the original carebear whines, that PvP players don't have to "earn" thier stuff.

It's based on the idea of grinding your toon into something uber, then being able to lord it over the lowly peons surrounding you. You the godly carebear will be 10 lvl's higher than anyone else, you the great carebear will have the mighty Sword of Ganking, you the mighty carebear will have gotten the armor of "Noobs can't hurt me", and so on.

What I've never understood is why they have always insisted on ruining this game. There are loads of other games out there for them, that ALREADY work exactly that way. Take WoW for instance, the single most popular MMO for the forseeable future. One of the favorite passtimes seems to be kiting some rediculously high lvl dragon into the enemies noobie town and watching the mayhem ensue.

It's never been PvP that they hate so much, it's fair play that they detest. If they could releably count on being able to wipe out the enemy team single handedly, the way a lvl 60 can easily do against a team of lvl 15's in WoW, they'd be all over that.

I think for the questing part it would work. Why because must of and all is personal. For exmple you go to the merchant. I also think it can still be done. Maybe don't have the chices you make be major for the missions. I have some ideas how to work it but I don't have time to write them.

No...there are renewable quests, like the supllies mission for Kurzick.

that Faction can be dropped by redeeming your Faction for items from certain NPCs. Then you can go out and get more witht he aforementioned renewable quests. Still no PvP for you...

It shouldn't be easy or fast. You've chosen sides in a conflict. It's not linear like Prophecies was. That doesn't make Faction bad. Just new.

Yes, redeemable for Luxon or Kurzick 15k armor. Access goes to certain missions, Elite missions and the core of a reasonable argument. It is also its failing. You can still complete the game. You can still farm the surrounding areas. You can still do the "hardcore" PvE missions. where roleplaying is a possibility amoung select groups. There shoudl still be green farms for non-Elite players. If there aren't, Greens become uber items on a massive scale, only a very few Alliances capable of acquiring them. Perhaps the increased perfect wep collectors is Anets solution, but I hope they will give the lower guild amound us a chance for that phat lewt.

Granted, this is pretty much moot to me. But instead of clash, I prefer thinking that I and other PvE/PvP fans can become a buffer. You want jadite for your armor but you don't want to farm Faction. I want your plat, but I want my PvP time to be useful and profitible for myself as well as my Alliance. You give me money, I give you stuff. Its a fair trade (with the upcoming Trade system, I hope) just like the old system: plat farmers buy goodies from green farmers/rune farmers/chest runners.

If you don't care about those map lines, don't play the PvP missions or or the Competitive PvEs. Like you say, they're lines. On a map. Not Bricks in a wall. We've seen what the consequences for not being allied to one country are: merchants don't like you (mapzone back to a friendly area) and rez shrines require money or fighting to attune them (a money sink or a quick slaughter). In no way did Faction hamper my PvE experience. If it actually stopped you from completing a quest, please tell me which...there were so many I didn't finish them all.

You're loss and yours to lose. Lucky you had the choice; the pre-order isn't in stores near me. But I still think this kind of attitude is selfish from the "carebears". You say "this is great for the people who both like to PvE and PvP, but it sucks for me, so its bad." Is there any wonder why there is resentment between the two if you want for only one type of expansion and deride the other?

In three months, when I grow tired of Questing thorugh Luxon country, its only a matter (maybe not so simple as in the FPE, but a possibility open to me) of swapping sides to the Kurzicks so i can try out their quests and play their missions (not 2 games for the price of 1, but maybe closer to 1 and a quarter. 1 and a half when you factor in my PvP time). In all, I see plenty of content to keep my PvE side happy. My PvP options got a boost too; and thats also something I like.

Wow, that’s about the most ignorant thing I've seen in this thread. And people sometimes wonder why this is such anger between the PvE and PvP groups.

I'll explain why getting those goods at a "click of the Button" piss off so many PvE players Sayshina.

let me preface by saying I have never played Wow, or any other MMO. And if this GW was like WOW I wouldn't spend my time killing newbs. I have other games, non-RPGs that I play for my PvP.

It's about time invested. The PvE'ers spend untold hours attempting to get the mods that PvPers have access to so easy. I have hundreds of hours on my account and still haven't found a +30 fortitude pommel or haft.. just as an example. These people have played day in and day out, week after week, Through idiot pugs or tank happy henchmen in missions that can take hours. They can spend 3 hours in New tombs to get a green worth nothing and a few purple items. When someone does find that sweet +30 mod it's like finding Big Choice Video. Whether or not it's better then +29 isn't really the issue. It's that you, after all this time found one. Not to Lord over others.. but just for self gratification. The human Psyche is a strange thing. It forces you to attribute worth to the things you spend time on. How you define that worth is relative to the individual but getting great items is definitely one option. To think that I have never found "XXX" mod, but can create a PvP toon in 5 minutes, play a few Random Arenas and Blam! Instant max Fort mod can be frustrating.

I hope this isn't taken as an Anti-Pvp post because it's not. But as a mainly PvE player Sayshina's post was a total slap in the face. The "item lording newb slayers" are few and far between. And from what I've seen are more easily found in PvP then PvE.

Really? Where at? I could've maybe kept my whole guild playing rather than them leaving in discust at the whole thing... meh... I played three characters to gain all my 10k faction with Luxons and Kurzicks... what a pain in the...

Why does everyone always feel the need to defend Anet when I post something? Do I come across as harsh or something? I love the game, really do. Addicted in fact. Factions just doesn't have enough for me to do and is not based on a game style I enjoy. In saying this, many always feel that I'm dogging Anet. I'm not. They made a wonderful game, it's near perfect in what it does. I've said this time and time again in other threads... I'll have to re-read my post cause when I write them, I don't mean to come across as negative, just point blank and matter of factly from my point of view...

Ok, let me try it this way. Factions is a more "rushed" type game play experience. Most of the quests and missions I did felt as if I were being rushed through... all but that "Black Moa" one.
Defending against wave after wave of foes, dull. Protect this or that... dull. Now, I did enjoy those scouting quests and found the wandering around to be a good time. But, for the most part, getting the faction points (the quests I found) required quests that I just didn't care for. I never said they were bad, I just didn't like them.

The PvP was an utter nightmare for me. Bad groups, rude people, utterly acting like my three year old when they died... and they wonder why people were dropping out of the battles.

If I hadn't canceled my pre-order already, then I would have done so after this FPE. At $50 there just isn't enough for me to consider the cost - see three year old above - I also never once said it was bad for everyone, I even said this:

Some of the things I've been looking for at least.

Henchie and Pet commands: So we can finally put some use to them other than a meat shield.
Improved AI for mobs: rather than sheer numbers, some smarter foes would be nice to see. Foes with secondary skill sets, and the knowledge on how to use them.
Improved henchie AI: for reasons we all know about.
New spell effects and new combat animations: Classes like the mesmer need more "flash" to their spells so others can actually see what they are doing. And besides, more flash make the class more fun (for some anyway).
More Glint like foes: Not just in missions, but scattered about the land. Single or dual foes that can give a full group a hard time.

As for my loss? I don't think I'm lossing anything as there really wasn't anything much for me to lose. Like I said, I'll wait till Chapter 3 - I'm not alone in this either. I've seen tons of posts with PvEers and PvPers saying they'll not buy Factions due to it's implementation.

I also think the pve was linar. There is still to much hack and slash. The Rpg needs some puzzles, or some non-fighting quest.

For example add a creature that is invc. You can beat it by fighting. You would have to out smart it. That can fit under the hole freedom thing.

also mix up all the creatures in the game abite. have weak and power creatures in the world. Let these creatures have their favite radom skills. it would be fun to look up stats and skills about creatures. make so the skills are radom.

I however love the ambush in the game I fought that was cool. However everything be said it is too soon to tell, I need to play a little more.

On the rude part, I can see this a problem. I have a readly had complaints by pver plaers about that too. This warning signs.


pvp really shouldnot be forced pve players.

Edited your post to save space and highlight some things:

First of all, I dont think Sayshina was talking about ALL PVE players. Just the ones who are complaining about PVP players being able to create instant level 20s. And he's talking about the people who just hate fair play. I could be wrong but that wasnt what impression I got. And just so you know, I dont think all PVE players are like that. Only a small number are like that.

However you completely missed the point of being able to create a PVP character easily. How else will PVP players be able to play PVP? Go through PVE?

I dont know why you're complaining about PVP players being "instantly" getting items as they wish. That's not completely true, they also have to earn them as well, except that they earn them in a different way.

Yes some things are faster to earn in PVP than in PVE like runes and mods. But everyone knows that you can get the majority of skills faster in PVE than in PVP. There are advantages and disadvantages. And you seem to preclude the disadvantages of unlocking through PVP and biased your whole argument.

And you underlined the main reason a lot of PVP players don't like to PVE, it's because of the unnecessary hard work just to get some certain basic things. Thanks for making that point for us.

Also how does a PVP character affect you? Unless you play PVP as well of course. Then in that case, you also have the option of making a PVP character. What's the problem here?

Oh one more thing. I've gone through the PVE part of the game several times. I'm not strictly a PVP guy so don't think this is a PVP biased point of view. Like you said there shouldnt be such animosity between the two playstyles.

You don't get it.. you're missing the point. I can see why he thinks they don't care about PvE, as in being forced to PvP. I hate PvP'ing because there are so many idiots, who like to insult others, and not take things in a mature way. And speaking of idiots, there are too many "idiots" to actually win in PvP. And from what I seen, you join groups randomly. It's not a good idea getting a group of newbs all the time. I don't like the idea of PvP'ing, but what can you do..

Roll your eyes all you want.... Your argument still makes no sense. How are you being forced to PVP? My girlfriend hates PVP and she has been playing Factions this weekend and hasnt once touched the PVP aspect of it. So what gun has someone been pointing to your head that has been forcing you to play PVP?

And oh, why are you complaining about the PVP being random? You said you hate PVP....so even if you had to PVP (outright lie) wouldnt having it being random be much easier as oppossed to trying to find a group of 12 people just to do something that you loathe? Make some sense man.

The competive mission are not timed yet. I think will have a different view once the mossins are timed. It felt like I hasd to chose a side. however I did pvp and likes it some what.

Like I said Eet, I'm not anti Pvp. I don't play play PvP GW, but I understand the HUGE draw playing against other thinking humans in a game has. But, Sayshina's post came across very anti PvE as have a great number of other posts from veteran PvP players (not necessarily in this thread. just in general And that's not to say PvEers don't do their own bitching. But as I'm a PvEer I'dd defend my own .

I don't disclude the hard ships in creating a stocked PvP toon.. but lets look at in in pure time. How long would it take a PvEer to unlock sup Vigor, Absorb, and Fort? 100s of hours, if ever. How long would it take a PvPer to unlock? a week?

Overall I agree with all your points. And I agree that it should be fairly easy to create a stocked PvP toon as you are competing against others with access to pretty much the same goods. But when someone drops by and slams PvE players, well..... The whole deal about carebear whines and lording over other players in Wow smacks of PvE hate.

Generally PvP peeps don't concern me (expect when their complaints affect items in the PvE world, which is vastly different.. but that is SO not a subject I'm getting into.. ever ). I don't care what you guys do.. and I truely hope you have fun doing it. I know I have fun in the pre-to-post searing PvP-E battle (assuming my guy isn't stuck with team of all lvl 1s that just want to move on like has happened the last 2 times).

But as I'm a PvEer I will defend my kind

*edit* ok, I'm rambling. Too many beers for me.

Speaking as someone who enjoys both PvE and PvP, I'm going to be harsh.

Much of the complaints come down to some PvE people saying that they don't like that EVERYTHING isn't gered for them. They don't want anything new, they just want more farming zones. Period.

From what I can from speaking to my friends, in my circle, both PvP and PvE players, are enjoying the new gametypes. There's a few complaints here or there, things require a bit of tweaking..(A mercy rule for the Alliance battles being the main one), but it's mostly positive.

You call him ignorant? How many time has Arenanet said that GW is *NOT*, I repeat *NOT* about time spent? You are the ignorant one, and you're playing the wrong game if you want to spend hours going through grind in order to be Mr. leet. Your spending hours grinding doesn't entitle you to anything, nor should it.

I'm not going to go play WoW and bitch about how long it takes me to get to level 20934 or whatever, so don't come to GW and bitch about time spent not making you uber.

I had no problem hitting 10k Kurzick faction in a single run. Just the starting quests in the main city alone were worth 5k faction. Then several of those started off quest chains worth a thousand per quest. The Dredge guy outside Fort Asperwood gave out 3k worth of faction for really easy quests. There was a NPC right outside that same city that gave a repeatable faction quest. Again I didn't play it all weekend, but I always had half a dozen quests active, even after I deleted the character after cashing in around 15k worth of faction.

If you didn't have a faction quest to do you weren't looking. At all.


Because what you're posting is not simply an opinion about a product that you understand. It's because what you're saying the game is, happens to be absolutely, factually, wrong.

When you say 'I don't want to have anything to do with PvP, ever' I'll simply look at that as you stating what sort of gameplay experience you prefer and leave it alone. But when you say something asinine like 'there aren't even 10k worth of faction quests available for a character' or 'the only way to access endgame content is through PvP' you're going to get jumped on.

Accuse me of being an A.Net apologist if you want, but if you're going to slam their product for reasons that *aren't even real* then yes, I'm going to rip you apart.


At least to me, you're coming across as a fool, nothing more. You see exactly what you want to see, and don't see that which might change your opinion. In my estimation, you went into this event looking for reasons not to like Factions, willfully overlooked the aspects you would actually like, and came back to this forum to advocate the most misinformed opinion on Factions I've seen yet.


I will agree with that the missions (well, the only one I found) were much more active, along the lines of the desert missions. The quests though? I will give you that a couple of them are more hurried, particularly that one Luxon quest near the hatchery...but in general they were patently relaxed, fedex style quests in the wilderness.


Oh please. You've already made it abundantly clear that you don't like any quest or mission that you can't go AFK in the middle of without ill effect. Why would you even look at PvP unless you're specifically looking for something you don't like?

Guess what. If you go to the Battle Isles with your Prophecies character and enter an arena, you're going to be in PvP. You probably won't like it very much.


Yeah, they did both remain friendly (well, at least the Kurzicks did, I had positive faction with them for the rest of the event and never checked the Luxons at the 0/0 point). If it's unbalanced it's pretty simple, the faction you have more unspent faction with likes you while the other does not.

If it's tied behavior is apparently pretty weird - they either need to both be friendly, or the one you did a quest for most recently needs to remain friendly while the other is hostile to avoid problems (I.E., cashing in all of your faction for jade, then being unable to spend it). It worked out fine for me, so perhaps you should drop a note into that bug report thread. =)


The joy of PvE for a sizable percentage of the game's population is chasing a carrot on a stick. PvP, neccessarily, cannot have the same treadmill if it is going to be competitive. Hence the reason for PvP-specific characters.

The only problem, is that grind monkeys see PvP players 'with the carrot' and get mad. Everyone chasing the carrot is a required part of carrot-chasing gameplay.

It is an unreconcilable problem. I will say this, however - players who's gameplay experience revolves around a long grind treadmill are likely playing Guild Wars only due to the lack of a monthly fee.

Peace,
-CxE

No. Your statement, were it true, would read:

if your guild alliance has control of a city it will offer you some *BONUS* opportunities but the average player who does not belong to your guild alliance will not have access to these bonus opportunities.

That's from Jeff Strain. A paraphase, of course, but that's what he said. Guild Alliances who control some mission towns will be granted access BONUS missions which launch from that town; people who are not members of the guild alliance that controls the outpost will be denied access to this bonus content.

The guild alliances that maintain control of these outposts will be those that, as a whole:

1. Grind more PvE than other guild alliances.
2. Win more PvP than other guild alliances.

100% of the world, except these BONUS missions, will be accessable to everyone. Naturally, Jeff also said that the best loot will drop in the bonus missions. Go figure.

If you are going to quote someone quote them correctly. Jeff said there will be elite missions that can be accessed by alliances holding a town. He did not say that it would be denied to everyone else. There have been other reports saying that anyone friendly with the controlling faction will have access. I'm thinking these details haven't been finalized, but Anet should really provide a detailed explanation about how that will work.

Charles, thanks for engaging in the rant I've been wanting to have.

I said it was a "paraphrase" not a "quote". Here is the Quote (emphasis mine):

Here's the link where I read the quote: http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=133721 (It's on page three.)

He therefore, did say that it would be denied to everyone else. I'm sure this may all change, especially with as much feedback on it as they are surely receiving. But, per Mr. Strain, the only ones who may enter a particular Elite Mission are members of the guild alliance that controls the town where the portal to that Elite Mission resides.

As a minor digression,

Sadly, that quote also says that these missions (which I will probably never see because I'm not the type to grind for Faction points) will produce "a correspondingly high-level of loot!" -- loot that will therefore only be available for purchase from aspiring individuals here in the High-End forums who are in the Guild Alliances which can grind enough Faction points to control these missions. They will be able to, naturally, set whatever price they like.

anet might care about pve as an addon that makes them money by tempting new gamers but they dont care about pve players or builds.
anets real concern is pvp and if anything messes with pvp it gets nerfed including killing off builds in pve that people have spent many hours building up

anet love pvp

end of

Ok, I am under the impression that since Febuary 3rd(date of quoted article) a variety of things have been said about access by Gaile, Jeff and the rumor mill. There are other threads on this topic to which we can refer.

Anet balances skills to keep PvP competitive, they balance monsters and areas to keep PvE competitive. The game is designed to be flexible and most everything needed to alter a pve character is readily avaible (except for a few ruins and perfect weapons). Really, nothing takes hours to build up in guild wars PvE.

PvE was rather lame in Prophecies, but I would argue there is notable improvement in factions which tells me that Anet does care. It would be a shame if people were locked out of elite content (although some restrictions makes things interesting).

I totally agreeI totally agree!Of this, I am positive - I agree 100%.I completely agreeAbsolutely not. (hehe, you knew that was coming!)

Only if the playing field were level, would restrictions on content be fair or interesting. Vis a Vis PvP-only characters, who are able to generate fully equipped characters at a moments notice; this was done to level the playing field so that PvP competition would be more available to all. I don't mind competing as long as I have a fair shot! I don't believe that there is any way that content restriction which directly relates to the amount of time you spend farming Faction points (by using any of the available methods of Faction point farming) could ever be fair, balanced, or in line with Arena.net's "Skill, not time played" dogma. I honestly don't think that a level playing field can be created; not with the "ingenuity" or "craftiness" of some of the more hardcore farmers out there.

Fair content restriction: Your party has to go through three different zones, which hold extremely different challenges. You must survive and meet the mini-objectives contained within these "trials", in order to reach the outpost where the Elite portal lies. There, you may adjust your skillbars, but you may not leave the outpost. You enter the Elite portal with the same group of 8 that you fought through the trials with, and it is up to your skill as players to build a team that can withstand not only the trials, but the Elite mission itself.

Unfair content restriction: A global, organized farming competition where the content is available only to those who can farm the most Faction, the fastest, and the most efficiently.

(Anyhow, sorry, I'm getting off topic. I'll toss in my "omg anet doesn't care more about pvp than it does pve" line with the rest of you. Gaile said that it's easy to think that way, when you see the giant cash prizes that pvp has to offer sometimes, but she emphatically told me that it is not true at all. They love "grind monkeys" like me just as much as they love "frag monkeys" like Ensign. The new PvE content in factions, as Thom said, looks like it's going to be an enormous improvement over Prophecies, tons of new skins for weapons and armor, new monsters, and gorgeous environments... how can that all just be a bunch of BS to feed us in order to somehow trick us into playing PvP? Pshht.)

I don't think ANet cares as much about PvE as PvP. Every time a post like this comes up, a ton of PvE'ers chime in and voice their concerns, and a ton of PvP'ers start defending ANet.

You do get some PvE'ers sticking up for the game, as is the case here. But all-in-all, being able to get to the level cap in 1 day (as well as being able to equip the best items, etc.) speaks for itself.

Like who?

Umm, do most companies charge $50 for their expansions? I'm not complaining--the price on GW is the only reason I'm still playing. But if the expansion is going to cost as much as the original, it should be expected to have a lot of content. I sure as hell wouldn't purchase it if it only had 2 new professions...unless I was another one of these PvP fanboys whose jock ANet is all over.

Ensign: Thanks for answering and being honest. I really don't mean to come across that way, and I always try to disclaim myself as "this is my opinion" or "what I have seen".

Re-reading my posts I did ask where those repeatable quests were at. I seriously never noticed them, not sure how I missed them, but I did. Those alone would have made a huge impact on my play. I played ALL day Friday and Saturday. Gave up Sunday as none of my guild was on as they were more miffed about it than I was.

I actually went into Factions with hopes on disclaiming what was left of my concerns on the game. Like I had said, what I did find didn't help any. Though I didn't like the Assassin (I thought I would love it) I did like the Ritualist and because of the FPE I finally got to play a Monk. Also enjoyed that class quite a bit.

What I meant by my PvP experience was a nightmare, was the people I got stuck with were terrible. They screamed, yelled, cursed acted like 3 year olds. I never said anything in those groups but "Hi" and "good luck to you" just before I dropped out.
If I hadn't had an open mind about it, I wouldn't have even tried it.

I also don't mean that all content should be PvE only. What I was trying to say is, there could have been so much more added to the PvE side, but so much work was spent on these "new" mission types and then all the effort spent on "not calling them what they are". PvP. Players vs player doesn't just mean players killing players to me (Note: I said to me). If I'm competing for points, score, holding areas, or anything, I'm playing a PvP, which is as others will agree, a more rushed type game style.

With all the time spent on those game styles, all there is left is, as you said, Fed EX style games. Time could have been spent on multi-team coop missions. Example might be: Team one goes east and fights their way to the back of a gate house to open the gate for the other team. All the while, Team two fights towards the front. Missions like that could have been put in.
Even multi-team defend ala THK. Several teams hold off an assault while a thrid team tries to take out some sort of boss mob outside of the defended area. A 12 (3 teams of 4) player co-op.

Instead of Co-op missions like those above, we got "competitive missions", "Challenge missions" all PvP mini games for score or points (I'm not the only one that feels this way towards these game types either). You might be able to understand the feeling that this threads subject line indicates by looking at it that way. The upgrades to the game and the additions via Mission types are based off of competition. PvEers are not in the game to compete, rather to co-op, and there has been little or no emphasis on this so far (at least from what we've been told or seen). You could say that co-op is in the Factions, and you would be right, but from nothing new from what was in Chapter one. One might even say that co-op is involved with the "competitive missions", but so is PvP and so many people, myself included are not going to enjoy those. Why? Because of the playstyle, the "feel" of the game. It's rushed, hurried and not laid back and not typically enjoyable. PvEers would like some new game types as well, that aren't PvP based or competition based.

There are so many upgrades to PvE that haven't been put in, that we as PvEers have been asking for... and nothing so far. Factions is great for what it is, I've never knocked it. I've called it near perfect many times. Just look at it. I also said it wasn't for me (Note: "me"). Unfortunatly, my entire guild seems to be opting out of playing Factions too, instead they seem to be working towards buying drops out of there rather than playing through it.

Just to clarify my standing with Factions:

From what I saw and found - loved the Kurzick forest areas. Awesome looking. Jade Sea was not bad. Enjoyed the "scouting missions" the most. Loved the Ritualist class and finally got to play a Monk which I also enjoyed. Tried the Jade Quarry mission a total of three times. First two times I got stuck with complete jerks, so rather than hear the abusive screaming and tantrum throwing of fellow group members, I and many others in the group dropped. Third try, whole group got ganked ("griefed" is the term I would use in other games, but since it was a PvP mission, it doesn't apply here) and within seconds, most of my group drops. So one hour for two groups and finally another 40 minutes or so with nothing to show for it, not even a good time or fun was had. - hence the "PvP was an utter nightmare" comment.
Wish I had seen or seriously even notice the repeatable missions. I do know the mission you are talking about too, I just didn't notice it was repeatable... /smackhead

All you need to do is spend your faction with one alliance and everyone from both sides talks to you again, and you can always enter outposts from another faction. I don't think you are that bound to one alliance. Besides, Alliance Battles are pretty PvE player friendly.

I don't see why you are so religiously bound to PvE that you don't want to do PvP at all. They are the same game. Most people do both

And its not like you are forced to play in them either. its not like the Kurzick/Luxons captured by the enemy forces are suddenly going to ally themselves with them.

Did you acutually read what I said, or do you just feel like bashing people? I'm not talking about grinding to create an Uber toon, I'm talking about playing the game through. If you have multiple guys and actually play through the game it takes 100s of hours. I had over 100 hours on my very GW toon as I explored every corner of the map, did every mission. And then I did it with 2 other classes. It's not called grinding, it's called playing. In all that time I still haven't found some mods that a PvP toon can just call up. Right or Wrong that is where a lot of the distaste comes from.. And people like you just pop in and start quoting random things that don't pertain. It IS about time spent of you a PvEer for the simple fact that this game takes a long TIME to play if you don't get run. And if you actually read (again Grimm, it helps )my original reference said exactly what you are saying about Wow.. just without the sad attempts at attacking anyone. And No, I didn't call him ignorant, I said his thread that calls PvEer whining Carebears was the most ignorant post. Big difference.

"It is an irreconcilable problem"

Pretty much, barring not allowing toons to cross over which would do more harm then good. And while it might be irreconcilable, it's not a big problem. It is after all only a game. I could care less what PvPer have access to. Hell, if Anet wants to add a Super Juicy Axe of Pet Slaying for thinning out IWAY teams that's only available in PvP that’s fine with me.

I agree completely. My understanding is that control of cities was only recently added - perhaps it will be updated before release. But as is, you're right, only the biggest and most dedicated grinding guilds will have control of cities - the little guy is never going to even sniff that content.


Oh I think it's perfectly possible, depending on what their goals are. If they're looking to give some sort of reward to the biggest and most dedicated PvE alliances then what they have is fine. Those alliances will maintain the highest levels of faction reputation, and will control the largest cities constantly because of it. It's not a system that's remotely fair to the casual gamer, but (hopefully) it wasn't designed to be.

An alternative system that would spread access around more would involve alliances 'buying' control of a city or outpost. Alliance reputation would have to be spent, and control would be granted for a certain period of time before another alliance could buy it away again. This sort of system is a timeshare - instead of the top alliances holding cities all the time, each city will be held by alliances in rough proportion to how much reputation they're earning. Big alliances would have regular access to city control - smaller alliances would be able to buy control on occasion and experience the content. It's a completely different model though - sometimes a relatively unknown alliance would control a major city, and I don't know if that's something they want in the game.


I've said it before, but the biggest reason for that perception is the number of changes and tweaks for each group, and how they are recieved. Specifically, that rebalancing and skill tweaks are generally well recieved and encouraged by the PvP community, but are demonized by PvE.

Just look at the most recent major patch. A whole bunch of skills were rebalanced, revitalizing the PvP environement. At the same time only a single rebalance was made to PvE, a (rather creative) change to a grossly over-farmed and over-botted section of a single map, and people were up in arms, threatening to quit the game and demonizing A.Net for 'hating PvE.'


Yes, it does. Perhaps what it says the loudest, is that the specific type of PvE content that a large segment of the gaming world wants, is not what A.Net is offering.

PvE in this game is far from perfect, no doubt about it - but if you're going to try and slam it for a lack of a leveling treadmill the people who get it are going to rightfully laugh in your face.


Well it isn't like those quests had a giant, neon 'THIS QUEST IS REPEATABLE' marker at the top of the description. You'd only notice them if you did the quest, then went back to the same part of the zone *again*, talked to the NPC with the !, and had a case of deja-vu. There was enough content in this event that you probably didn't spend much time re-entering the same zone over and over, especially if you were re-rolling. I only noticed that one quest was repeatable because that Fern zone was so huge and a lot of things were going on there, I passed by that NPC several times.

It would have been more clear that certain quests were repeatable if the NPCs that gave them were in towns. Those you'd pass by often enough to notice that something was up. I think those would be a good addition, NPCs in major towns with simple, repeatable quests that PvE players could work into their regular gameplay. Done right, those could give people some incentive to play PvE 'normally', instead of just power-farming whatever mob is easiest.


I do think that it was a mistake to make the new, 'featured' content on the PvE side Asperwood and the Jade Quarry. As you said, those maps are really PvP in a clown suit. More specifically, it's random arena in a clown suit that only people with PvE characters could play. It was, in short, a recipe for disaster, a very niche map that was advertised as being much, much more.

I thought the gametypes were interesting myself, and they certainly did involve more killing of bots than other players, but it distinctly was a PvP experience.

After thinking about it a bit I'm pretty sure that those two maps really exist for the segment of the population that really enjoys random arena. They can take their W/Mo in there and run around killing NPCs and dueling people and all that. Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if that crowd loved those maps. The problem, then, is marketing. The Jade Quarry was advertised as awesome new PvE content, not as the newest incarnation of random arena.

In any case that content certainly wasn't for either of us.


Do those gametypes explicitly need two teams, though? Or could you just form up your own 8 man squad and split it up yourself? What this sounds like is that there's a desire for PvE missions that aren't the same old linear monster-bashes, and I agree fully with that.

I'm just wary of my success in a mission being dependent upon some idiot with henchies managing to pull off his part without wiping.

I believe there were only two actual missions in the preview, and I only got to play one of them. I'll have to see what else they add before making judgments on whether PvE has evolved or not. Though I do have the caveat that anything more involved that a linear bash with henchies is likely going to be time sensitive (either through waves of enemies, or otherwise managing to keep busy while waiting for another squad to do their job), and thus something you wouldn't enjoy terribly...

Peace,
-CxE

adding to my comment before hand. There is alot of people who didnot even under stand the first GW. for example here is link with some who even read the story. there is still alot of lose ends in the game.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Storyline(Ch1)

I also recomend to the game degsiners checking out games from boiware. I think that should be a measring tool for Anet as far as rpg in pve goes. they should try the games I sugjested.

I think the problem as usual is that some people expect to PvE or PvP exclusively without missing out on anything. If you want to experience everything the game has to offer you are going to have to do both. If you only PvP, you will miss out on stuff intended for PvE, and vice-versa.

Take it as what it is folks, a PvE and PvP game, all rolled up into one.

Oh, ok then...

The following is a direct quote from Gaile Gray, taken in the Marketplace D1 on 3/24 of the FPE:

"No, you cannot do quests in an area controlled by another faction. That is why you want to help to gain that control."

Here's the link to the original: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142804
It's in the first screen capture, toward the bottom.

(Should be interesting to watch what spin gets put on this one...)

What people say and what actually happened ingame are quite often different; in the FPE's case, you were free to do whatever quests you wanted. I know that as a fervent Kurzick supporter in a Kurzick-aligned guild who had earned quite a bit of Kurzick faction, I could walk into Cavalon quite easily (very easily, despite there being a war going on) and pick up quests to support the valiant Luxon side. (Merchants and various other NPCs refused to talk.) Whether or not this will remain the case when Factions comes out is yet to be seen, though. As has been stated before, there will be benefits to the Faction/Alliance that controls an outpost.

Since Gaile works for Anet, it seems pretty clear that our ability to do quests in the opposing territory was for the FPE event only. But yeah, there's a chance, albeit a slim one, that Anet will change their minds before release.

And I must reiterate the obvious benefits to PvE based guilds being in an Alliance with PvP based guilds, since accessibility to basic PvE content is dependent upon how much territory their Faction owns - which is entirely dependent upon PvP style play.

Now regarding the other way around...

Anet continually refers to the important role of the cooperative player in this new chapter. Gaile also hinted at the new Elite Co-op missions being extremely challenging. Hopefully we'll learn more about what they mean in the near future.

Fwiw, there is an art to good Co-op play, just like with good PvP play. No serious PvP player would expect much from someone who only does Random Arena casually, just as no serious Co-op player would expect much from one who PvEs simply to farm and grind.

First, I didn't know you were emo, Savio. I hope you liked all that poetry and bad music the Kurzicks used to brainwash you.

Second and seriously, there were a few quests I could pick-up without a problem but was not able to complete depending on where the faction line was located.

the game is all about PvE ffs

Do they need them? Much in the same way we needed 12vs12 and Alliance battles. It's an addition and a new mechanic to the game play.

Much in the same way many pure PvEers are seeing the high end Elite content access dependant on PvP border fighting? Success for many PvEers is gaing that elite drop, not purchasing it from someone. The success of that player is (as has been said per Jeff Strain and quoted in this thread already and the link here) dependant upon other people. Yes, you contribute, but you would also contribute in the above game play example.
As for the issue on wiping out in this mission; there's always issues that come up with a new mechanic. A few can be found here:

Co-op Missions

Anything at all added to PvE besides more quests we've seen before would be nice. As long as it wasn't racing to and from or competition based game play. For me anyway.
If I were in a mission with another Co-op group, holding a line of mobs back so they could do something else, that would be interesting as it would have a meaning and a purpose. We have yet to see this in PvE yet. Holding off wave of wave of mobs just for the sake of it gets old. But in supporting another group seperate from your own, while they struggle with their part of the same mission would be fun.
The dynamic we have seen in place thus far is all about groups with groups vs groups with groups. Too rushed for me and other players also don't drop anything (do they?), so hours of fighting with nothing gained but points.
However, groups with groups vs more and tougher mobs would bring in some interesting missions.

I Was under the impression that ANET said something like..

"Alliances who have both PvE AND PvP Players will be the most strongest"

Fort Aspen and the Jade Quarry are very clearly PvP contests... NOT PvE,

So I would be interested to know why they think that PvE Players would be strong in an Alliance.. is it because they would gain faction points from those repeatable missions?