Gamblers (casinos) = Banned. Anet is doing it! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Playful Kitty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 03:58 - 1

Rules of Conduct Enforced 24 May 2005

Due to the proliferation of casinos and their potential for player abuse, we will be blocking the accounts of those who advertise or operate casinos or other gambling schemes within the game, effective immediately. Players should be aware that casinos are a breach of the Rules of Conduct, as is the advertisement or promotion of cheats, hacks, of exploits. None of these things will be accepted within Guild Wars.

Bout time.

. Let the flames begin! (no dont flame you know what i mean)

Brett Kuntz

Core Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:02 - 2

Ah I hope they add a casino NPC then, gambling is fun. Well right after they fix the fubar'd skill system that is.

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:10 - 3

Um, why would they add a Casino/Gambling NPC?

That would sort of... go against their own conduct so to speak, even if it wasn't a person doing it. Besides there is also that whole thing about gambling addictions and the like, which can be really nasty habits.

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:18 - 4

Yep

ArenaNet, like most rpg game makers, are now hypocrites.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

25 May 2005 at 04:21 - 5

Thank you ANet!

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:23 - 6

Please, don't turn this into an argument already...

Hintshigen Elgin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United Kingdom

Wolfish Designs

R/W

25 May 2005 at 04:28 - 7

/applaud ArenaNet

It was a needed change in my opinion.

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:33 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adaria

Please, don't turn this into an argument already...

Um, why not? It's the truth.

Company X implements an random numerical generator into their game. i.e. a dice roll (coulda been a coin flip or a paper rock scissors thing). This ability can be used by players any way we choose. Players find a way to use this, until other players fall for oldest tricks in the book, and then Company X turns around and completely does a 180 in regards to how players may use the tool they've been provided.

Coming next from ArenaNet;

Using the /flex emotes infront of female characters considered sexual harassment

Hintshigen Elgin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United Kingdom

Wolfish Designs

R/W

25 May 2005 at 04:36 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

Um, why not? It's the truth.

Company X implements an random numerical generator into their game. i.e. a dice roll (coulda been a coin flip or a paper rock scissors thing). This ability can be used by players any way we choose. Players find a way to use this, until other players fall for oldest tricks in the book, and then Company X turns around and completely does a 180 in regards to how players may use the tool they've been provided.

Coming next from ArenaNet;

Using the /flex emotes infront of female characters considered sexual harassment

Using that logic you could say that because exploit X is possible, when Company X turns around and completely does a 180 in regards to how the exploit worked they'd be wrong again.

PhineasToke

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

in a house

Phantom Menace

W/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:39 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

Um, why not? It's the truth.

Company X implements an random numerical generator into their game. i.e. a dice roll (coulda been a coin flip or a paper rock scissors thing). This ability can be used by players any way we choose. Players find a way to use this, until other players fall for oldest tricks in the book, and then Company X turns around and completely does a 180 in regards to how players may use the tool they've been provided.

Coming next from ArenaNet;

Using the /flex emotes infront of female characters considered sexual harassment

Since AN OWNS the servers, I guess they can do as they please. It may have been an experiment to see if players would handle it responsibily, and when they realized they weren't responsible, all gone. Or, a few parents decided that allowing gambling within the game world was a bit much. We'll never know, but it is good it is gone.

Trenchsoul

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Join Nubcaek Stallion, now.

Nubcaek Stallion

W/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:40 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

Um, why not? It's the truth.

Company X implements an random numerical generator into their game. i.e. a dice roll (coulda been a coin flip or a paper rock scissors thing). This ability can be used by players any way we choose. Players find a way to use this, until other players fall for oldest tricks in the book, and then Company X turns around and completely does a 180 in regards to how players may use the tool they've been provided.

Coming next from ArenaNet;

Using the /flex emotes infront of female characters considered sexual harassment

How does this even make any sense...at all? How is stopping people from scamming doing a 180? I don't recall reading anywhere "We support scamming and scammers, and you'll get what you deserve if you fall for it."

/flex = sexual harassment? No, you're having a knee jeck reaction, please think next time.

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:40 - 12

I said that because this shouldn't turn into an argument, those aren't really needed here, discussions are, not smart arsed commentary...

Merely stating facts, arguments lead to flames which lead to closed threads and possible bannings.

Discussions lead to a happy community where everyone can voice their opinion without fearing smart arsed commentary in return and not be sneered at for their opinion.

How you tone things is crucial...

All I'm saying, back to the topic at hand...

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:42 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

How does this even make any sense...at all? How is stopping people from scamming doing a 180? I don't recall reading anywhere "We support scamming and scammers, and you'll get what you deserve if you fall for it."

/flex = sexual harassment? No, you're having a knee jeck reaction, please think next time.

Oh please, what were you scammed out of? Some gold? A couple plat?

If you were scammed, it's cause you fell for it. Plain and simple. Common sense is an ability not everyone has, and its something quite a bit of GW players lack.

Hintshigen Elgin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United Kingdom

Wolfish Designs

R/W

25 May 2005 at 04:45 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

Oh please, what were you scammed out of? Some gold? A couple plat?

If you were scammed, it's cause you fell for it. Plain and simple. Common sense is an ability not everyone has, and its something quite a bit of GW players lack.

If they fell for it or not, it doesn't make a difference, it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place.

Rushing Wind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Within the dense fog of my own mind

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

W/E

25 May 2005 at 04:49 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

/flex = sexual harassment? No, you're having a knee jeck reaction, please think next time.

HaHaHaHa

Funny how some people don't think and just "open mouth and insert foot".

It'll be nice to see the spamming gone in community areas. There is definitely enough of it with people selling/buying. I have no problem with the selling/buying aspect of it since I'm an enormous participant in it. Just nice to not have to deal with all the crap, cheats or not, that a casino and other places 'provide'.

Trenchsoul

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Join Nubcaek Stallion, now.

Nubcaek Stallion

W/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:50 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

Oh please, what were you scammed out of? Some gold? A couple plat?

If you were scammed, it's cause you fell for it. Plain and simple. Common sense is an ability not everyone has, and its something quite a bit of GW players lack.

No one ever said any of us fell for scams, and I haven't fallen for anything. Unlike some people, uncluding you it appears, I don't prey on the weak or stupid. Make fun of them sure, but I've got more class than to steal lolipops from the kiddies.

Chroniss

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:50 - 17

Its an invitation for scammers to allow Casinos, I really dont see how your arguement holds any merit, especially the part about /flex...you cant scam someone with a /flex now can you.

To add an in game casino wouldnt be going against their own rules either, its a way of implementing the gambling aspects without the opportunity for scammers to take advantage of other players, and on top of all this its a money sink, as the odds would be stacked against the player. Sure he might have a good night and win alot of money, but most of the time the casino npc would be the one taking the most cash.

But I'm going a little astray, they havnt said anything about a gamble/casino NPC, and I doubt they will, but its entirly plausible that they would, it could be a mini-game that doubles as a money sink.

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 04:54 - 18

Ah I see. I wasn't completely sure if it would go against what they were saying or not by implimenting it into the game. Though, I'm not quite sure how they would work that with the /roll system and such. Merely wondering on this issue.

I am thankful they will be gone, in LA dist 1 today I saw no less than five casinos at once it was horrid.

Kirb

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

25 May 2005 at 04:55 - 19

Thank god. Those casino spammers were starting to piss me off.

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 05:00 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

No one ever said any of us fell for scams, and I haven't fallen for anything. Unlike some people, uncluding you it appears, I don't prey on the weak or stupid. Make fun of them sure, but I've got more class than to steal lolipops from the kiddies.

I'm sorry, I didn't know Darwin's teachings meant not having class.

If people can't handle someone (read, not me, I ain't that stupid) swindling them out of fake game currency, in a fantasy game that in no way affects your real life, then those people have the problem, not anyone else.

"The kid who ate too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own!" - George Carlin

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 05:04 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chroniss

Its an invitation for scammers to allow Casinos, I really dont see how your arguement holds any merit, especially the part about /flex...you cant scam someone with a /flex now can you.

No, you can't scam someone with /flex

My analogy using /flex was geared towards the guy saying ArenaNet created the game and run it's servers, as such they can change or add to their game or terms of service as they see fit, which is correct.

So it's not that far of a stretch that someone, may find such things as /flex or whatnot harassment of some kind. Sure its an exaggeration but hey, people got very worked up over /roll obviously.

Hintshigen Elgin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United Kingdom

Wolfish Designs

R/W

25 May 2005 at 05:06 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

No, you can't scam someone with /flex

My analogy using /flex was geared towards the guy saying ArenaNet created the game and run it's servers, as such they can change or add to their game or terms of service as they see fit, which is correct.

So it's not that far of a stretch that someone, may find such things as /flex or whatnot harassment of some kind. Sure its an exaggeration but hey, people got very worked up over /roll obviously.

They didn't get worked up over /roll. You act like they're taking it out of the game. They got worked up with the way /roll was being used to potentially scam people.

thaumaturge

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/Me

25 May 2005 at 05:08 - 23

Good move I say, jolly well done all round chaps.

Slade xTekno

Rawr.

Join Date: Apr 2005

Read or Die Stooge Forum

W/

25 May 2005 at 05:09 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

I'm sorry, I didn't know Darwin's teachings meant not having class.

If people can't handle someone (read, not me, I ain't that stupid) swindling them out of fake game currency, in a fantasy game that in no way affects your real life, then those people have the problem, not anyone else.

"The kid who ate too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own!" - George Carlin

Social evolution demands a certain amount of guile in surviving, and although it's only a game, it happens. Plus, just because it's "fake game currency" doesn't stop people from complaining about it or people from not keeping their word.

If survival of the fittest has finished running its course and the world were filled with perfect people, it would be ok. However, it hasn't.

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 05:11 - 25

Edit - Part II: Actually, nevermind to all of it.

Let me just say, or qoute from the Guild Wars Website

Guild Wars Rules of Conduct

1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

5. When communicating in Guild Wars using Global Chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts. [For more information, please see the User Agreement section 4 (j).
]

(j) In Guild Wars, characters have the privilege of sending server wide messages called 'Chat Messages.' With this privilege comes a high level of responsibility on the part of the user. Due to the fact that this communication channel has the ability to impact every player on the server, NC Interactive will not tolerate any inappropriate behavior of any sort in this chat channel. This includes but is not limited to: inappropriate language of any sort or any attempt to escape the profanity filter, inappropriate or vulgar content of any sort, repeated 'spamming,' or 'flooding' of the chat messages channel, or any other conduct determined to be inappropriate by NC Interactive Support, in its sole discretion. Any violation of this term or rules of conduct may, in the sole discretion of NC Interactive, lead to the temporary removal of the character’s ability to communicate, the account being suspended for a set period of time, or lead to permanent account closure.

Ahem, I do believe this shows WHY exactly Casino's are being banned. My last point for this thread for the night...

Trenchsoul

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Join Nubcaek Stallion, now.

Nubcaek Stallion

W/Mo

25 May 2005 at 05:12 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

I'm sorry, I didn't know Darwin's teachings meant not having class.

If people can't handle someone (read, not me, I ain't that stupid) swindling them out of fake game currency, in a fantasy game that in no way affects your real life, then those people have the problem, not anyone else.

"The kid who ate too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own!" - George Carlin

Why do you ceaselessly defend scamming? It's the principle of it, it doesn't matter if what was stolen was of value or not. If they can prevent theivery by banning casinos then they should. I'm all for improving game play for all sorts of people.

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 05:15 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hintshigen Elgin

They didn't get worked up over /roll. You act like they're taking it out of the game. They got worked up with the way /roll was being used to potentially scam people.

Well, same thing basically.

How long till someone uses /roll for a more, legitmate, purpose and then someone screams hacks/cheats/scams for it? Eliminated casinos just is a stop gap way to cut down on spam, which should have been cut down on several patches ago with a more precise anti spam filter (as proven in other threads the anti spam filter is a joke as is the ignore system).

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 05:20 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

Why do you ceaselessly defend scamming? It's the principle of it, it doesn't matter if what was stolen was of value or not. If they can prevent theivery by banning casinos then they should. I'm all for improving game play for all sorts of people.

Because unlike some, I don't simply don't give in when told what freedoms a player does and does not have. Now of course that doesn't always work out, cause theres just universal rules to follow (no racism, no religious hate etc) but in the scope of the game and how you can use a function (/roll) it's silly that the best way for the company to fix something they let players use, is to ban players for using it in a particular manner.

That and I also believe in stupid people should not breed. I've played online games since my days of Quake 2 and Starcraft, and moved onto various games since then. And by god, if I had .000000000000000000000000000000001 cents every time someone was scammed in an online RPG of some fashion, I'd be the richest guy in the universe. It's people that fall for these scams that are the same kids that think it's ok to taste dishwashing detergant or attempt backyard wrestling. Why should everyone be punished cause they can't grow a few brain cells and realize "hmm if I hand this guy 5 plat, he'll probably just run off with it"

Adaria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 05:23 - 29

Refer to my edited post for my points on why casinos are being banned and why this is a good thing and how ArenaNet is not being hypocritical as someone has stated in this.

Thank You.

~Adaria

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

25 May 2005 at 05:28 - 30

GOOD RIDDANCE to endless casino spam! hip hip HOORAH!

Jackell

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Buffalo NY

None at the moment

R/E

25 May 2005 at 05:31 - 31

It's the use that's being banned, not the dice themselves. It's not hypocritcal. It's the same as in RL. Cards are legal, but 3 card monte on a sidewalk isn't. Is the government hypocritical for allowing people to own cards but not allowing gambling?

BlaineTog

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

California

Broken Blades

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 05:35 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

How long till someone uses /roll for a more, legitmate, purpose and then someone screams hacks/cheats/scams for it?

Slippery slope fallacy.

Immortal Flame

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

LA, California

Nothing to Lose [NtL]

25 May 2005 at 05:41 - 33

So....what can we do with the dice now...suggestions anyone?

Onimusha Greenwood

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Houston,TX.

R/W

25 May 2005 at 05:47 - 34

just dont gamble.it gets addicting.but we dont gotta worry bout it anymore so i think its all good.no?

Redfang

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Hope And Glory

W/Me

25 May 2005 at 05:54 - 35

Let me just say "woooooot!"

Adios, scammers and spammers.

aeroclown

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Louisiana

E/Mo

25 May 2005 at 06:44 - 36

Theres a right way and a wrong way to use things. There never would have been a problem if players weren't scamming other players.

Peroid. Any argument that Company XYZ is wrong for stopping Scammers is well just plain stupid. The only people that would really complain would be the people who have something to lose.

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

25 May 2005 at 07:13 - 37

Perhaps it will help the concerned or confused amongst us if I point out that the /roll command was a carryover from back in the day when we did not have automatic distribution (tagging) of dropped items. There is a certain staff member at ArenaNet who developed the amazing ability to nab items before they hit the ground. Without the reservation system, those of us playing less frenetically, or those of us (like me) playing the ranged classes would be left out of nearly all loot drops.

So, the designers added /roll so that we could, civilly and with composure, sort out to whom the item should be given. And it worked very well indeed. When we added the automatic drop reservation system, the /roll remained. I think it was a nice thing to have if, for instance, you were playing Warrior and a wand dropped and two people said "I'd like that wand." You'd type /roll and the number of the party member that came up would be the recipient of the item. No hurt feelings, no tough decisions.

I certainly didn't anticipate that we'd see the proliferation of in-game casinos. And when I saw them, I didn't imagine that so many would be rife with scams and other harmful influences. Now that the potential for (and, sadly, the actuality of) abuse is more clear, we have acted in the interests of the community in closing the casinos.

We may consider offering an NPC or other in-game system for gambling. Would that make us hypocritical? Of course not! Closing casinos wasn't a statement on casinos or gambling. It was a statement made and a promise kept to maintain a game world free of abuse and the exploitation of other players, to the best of our ability. If a gambling option is added to Guild Wars, it will offer a fair system from which exploitation is precluded. The decision on that is up to the designers, of course, with our thanks for the valuable suggestions and the valid reports offered on this whole subject.

Lim-Dul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw

Alea Iacta Est [AIE]

Me/W

25 May 2005 at 07:24 - 38

Hmmm - another thing I'd love to see being fought against somehow are the real-money auctions on eBay and stuff.
Not only is this totally asocial behaviour, but also is this completely illegal as you are not allowed to make money of a game that is actually owned by ArenaNet (correct me if I'm wrong).
Maybe someone should scan the auctions on eBay from time to time and lock the accounts of people who trade there? I mean - there aren't TOO many people who do that. It'd be quite easy to track them down.

At the same time I find the concept of VIRTUAL money auctions like http://www.rpgtraders.net really, REALLY nice.

Update: Yeah - now I've read the End User License Agreement and are absolutely SURE that selling in-game items for real money is a breach of ANet's copyright.

e.g.

Quote:

(c) Rights to Use Accounts. By agreeing to the User Agreement you agree that you do not own either the Master Account or Game Account (collectively, the "Account") you use to access the service, the characters created on the Account and that NC Interactive stores on NC Interactive servers, the items stored on these servers, or any other data from which the servers and accounts are comprised. The Account you create is needed to login to the service as per section 4(b) and the fee that you pay is to access new Chapters.

Quote:

(b) Rights in Content. You acknowledge that NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers have rights in their respective Game Content under copyright and other applicable laws, and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Game Content in violation of any such rights. NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers grant to Members the right to use the Game Content for noncommercial, personal purposes, including in connection with creating noncommercial fan fiction or fan web sites regarding the same. However, you acknowledge and agree that you shall not reproduce, prepare derivative works based upon, distribute, publicly perform, or transmit any Game Content for commercial uses without first obtaining the express written consent of NC Interactive.

So the people on eBay are not only poor freaks, but also criminals. :-P

P.S. Just so you see the vastness of the problem:

http://search.ebay.com/guild-wars

After you reach lvl. 20 and gain access to all those high-leavel areas you can make around 100$ a day just for selling the drops! If this isn't commercial and at the same time criminal activity, then I don't know what it is. How can you SELL things that actually don't BELONG to you? (just read the quoted parts of the agreement)

Mav

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

25 May 2005 at 08:22 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

Theres a right way and a wrong way to use things. There never would have been a problem if players weren't scamming other players.

Peroid. Any argument that Company XYZ is wrong for stopping Scammers is well just plain stupid. The only people that would really complain would be the people who have something to lose.

Well I'm or so discussing it rather than complaining, but I have nothing to lose. I've never ran a casino in GW, never spent money in one, never had any association with any. I just simply think its silly what their doing based apon my previous reasons.

Lim-Dul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw

Alea Iacta Est [AIE]

Me/W

25 May 2005 at 08:30 - 40

Just think of how many requirements you have to fulfill to run a casino in the real world - including a permission from the authorities. Similarly running a casino in GW shouldn't be done without the company's knowledge - even if it's virtual money ANet still are the AUTHORITY in the GW world and can set up laws as they please. :-P

By analogy: knives aren't forbidden, nor the manifacturing of knives, yet murder by using a knife is forbidden. Mamma mia! Can't you see a certain rule here?