This game needs gambling badly - gambling for items, gambling for runes, whatever, as long as there's *something* to suck cash out of the economy in large amounts. The casino spam was annoying as hell, certainly, and a ton of them were just scams, but don't take that as a sign of the value of gambling in a game like this.
Peace,
-CxE
Gamblers (casinos) = Banned. Anet is doing it!
Ensign
Mav
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lim-Dul
Just think of how many requirements you have to fulfill to run a casino in the real world - including a permission from the authorities. Similarly running a casino in GW shouldn't be done without the company's knowledge - even if it's virtual money ANet still are the AUTHORITY in the GW world and can set up laws as they please. :-P
By analogy: knives aren't forbidden, nor the manifacturing of knives, yet murder by using a knife is forbidden. Mamma mia! Can't you see a certain rule here? |
But we're talking about a game here. Unless someone gets screwed over by trying to buy their stuff on eBay, then no one is getting scammed. The gold in game, is just fake gold, in a game that's not real. It's just data stored on a server, you lose nothing by "losing" gold or items in game, other than time spent but hey, theres no monthly fee, you've already paid for the game so your time is your own and not being paid for.
I played D2 for god knows how many years, and I said the same things back then. It's the peoples fault for getting scammed (less of course they gave our their CD key which is a real world type thing that you kinda do need to play). If we keep coddling people after they lose their stuff or get scammed, they'll never learn not to fall for scams or not to think things through.
Lim-Dul
I see your point but in your approach we are mostly oriented towards letting people learn from their mistakes. They gambled, they lost, they won't gamble again. The problem is that we are then taking in-game casinos as a kind of "force of nature" we must live with. I think the main purpose of the whole ban on gambling in GW is stopping people from spamming the main chat with useless crap. Gambling is not a simple act of scamming - it is a very complex process which includes dozens of possibilities to cheat on people, annoy them or simply abuse the in-game system. If people need gambling so badly they can go to any online casino - most of them have virtual money as well as real money - and start right away. I mean - if gambling is what people want, then GW is the wrong game for them - the gambling features never were too complex in GW, were they? Rolling dice? LOL! If that's more interesting than the game itself then we are living in a strange world indeed.
I can think of 100 other possibilities to use dice rolls - GW is an RPG after all and most RPGs include dice rolling. It's nice to roll the dice to decide arbitrarily e.g. who should pull this hord of creeps. =)
I can think of 100 other possibilities to use dice rolls - GW is an RPG after all and most RPGs include dice rolling. It's nice to roll the dice to decide arbitrarily e.g. who should pull this hord of creeps. =)
Vermilion Okeanos
people who is dumb enough to get scam by the oldest trick in the book = they deserve some smacking in the head.
people who like to grow their happiness on someone else's pain = those people deserve to be torture.
just my personal opinions.
people who like to grow their happiness on someone else's pain = those people deserve to be torture.
just my personal opinions.
Vynn
I'm not sure what to think.
Basically I've never participated in these casinos and I have never seen one. I've been playing since the 27th and have not come across a "casino-spamming-player", maybe that is because I'm not that far in the game (4 characters, all in post-searing). I like casual play.
Anywho what I really want clarified is whether any of these two scenarios are against the rules:
#1 I've been adventuring with a party member, another player. I found a cool item. He/she suggests we roll a dice on who gets to keep the item = we gamble on it. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - I get to keep the item and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.
#2 I advertice that I want to gamble for credits in the local channel in Ascalon City, as an example. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - he wins 500 GP and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.
What is legal and what is not? First consider the rules. Also consider that the participant might be a friend or a family member of mine, no money or items are deposited, both players have to roll, etc. Are they both illegal?
I've never done either, but it is something that I have thought off.
Basically I've never participated in these casinos and I have never seen one. I've been playing since the 27th and have not come across a "casino-spamming-player", maybe that is because I'm not that far in the game (4 characters, all in post-searing). I like casual play.
Anywho what I really want clarified is whether any of these two scenarios are against the rules:
#1 I've been adventuring with a party member, another player. I found a cool item. He/she suggests we roll a dice on who gets to keep the item = we gamble on it. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - I get to keep the item and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.
#2 I advertice that I want to gamble for credits in the local channel in Ascalon City, as an example. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - he wins 500 GP and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.
What is legal and what is not? First consider the rules. Also consider that the participant might be a friend or a family member of mine, no money or items are deposited, both players have to roll, etc. Are they both illegal?
I've never done either, but it is something that I have thought off.
BoogieKnights
i just dont get this move atall, if u dont want to be scammed by a casino then dont roll dice for gold - there is already a foolproof mechanism to prevent being scammed by casinos in place - i.e. dont use them.
by all means get a better spam filter or shunt these lowlifes to somewhere they can spam (like a desert island) but narrowing game options and wrapping the playerbase in cotton wool is going to help anyone in my opinion.
if this is indeed a "role" playing game then the idea of role here seems to be a very narrow one. i play online rpgs because they offer options and i think removing the option of being untrustworthy and evil goes against certain freedoms that should be allowed in these environments.
i dont advocate the use of casinos atall and think they are an idiotic way to waste farmed gold but the prescence of things like this allong with the thieves etc helps make it a more rounded/realistic environment for me.
by all means get a better spam filter or shunt these lowlifes to somewhere they can spam (like a desert island) but narrowing game options and wrapping the playerbase in cotton wool is going to help anyone in my opinion.
if this is indeed a "role" playing game then the idea of role here seems to be a very narrow one. i play online rpgs because they offer options and i think removing the option of being untrustworthy and evil goes against certain freedoms that should be allowed in these environments.
i dont advocate the use of casinos atall and think they are an idiotic way to waste farmed gold but the prescence of things like this allong with the thieves etc helps make it a more rounded/realistic environment for me.
Vermilion Okeanos
If you really want "role playing" you should be able to hunt scammers down after they scam you... obviously, Anet play the role of the hunters... and we hired them after we pay for the game.
adam.skinner
Thank you, ArenaNet!
Kostabi
I'm not going to wade into the on going debate here because it's basically pointless. I'm just glad that this puts an end to the endless spam in the Local channels.
Madjik
Thanks anet. the spam was really getting bad. As to you casino operators, you've only got yourselves to blame for it. If you'd been playing fair you wouldnt have to worry about this. I was never scammed, i dont see the use in gambling myself, and i simply dont gamble, but i'll tell you one thing, weather you do it or not is your own choice. I'd have been happy with the /ignore feature working in such a way as that I would only have to put you on my list so I wouldnt have to hear you spamming the heck outta my channels, But since so many of you were scamming, on top of spamming, seriously. Do the math, its your own fault. Live with it and move on. You find another way to scam and anet will try to put a stop to that too. Those few of you who played fair only have the scammers to blame for this one too. You casino runners want to point the finger at someone you should start looking to those of you that scammed. Your casino's might still be around today if it werent for that. Blame yourselves.
Ramus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kostabi
I'm not going to wade into the on going debate here because it's basically pointless. I'm just glad that this puts an end to the endless spam in the Local channels.
|
I for one am against, "Punishing the many, to stop the few" policy that developers take. I believe in fixing the problem, and finding a way to make all players happy. Making this kind of fix, "Its illegal, do not do it" is only going to tax there own staff and ruin the experience for A) Legit Casinos and B) Players who enjoy it and have nothing better to do with the insanely large flow of money in the game.
I am fine with removing it, but perhaps it would be better if you first had a resolution to the problem before doing so. AKA a casino npc or a way to make it more legit. It is the Developers responsiblity not to add things to the game that can be exploited by legit usage.
Madjik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We may consider offering an NPC or other in-game system for gambling. Would that make us hypocritical? Of course not! Closing casinos wasn't a statement on casinos or gambling. It was a statement made and a promise kept to maintain a game world free of abuse and the exploitation of other players, to the best of our ability. If a gambling option is added to Guild Wars, it will offer a fair system from which exploitation is precluded. The decision on that is up to the designers, of course, with our thanks for the valuable suggestions and the valid reports offered on this whole subject.
 |
Xellos
Yeah, I think the one thing good about Diablo 2 was the gambling for rare items and such. Sure, they weren't great in D2, since the uber uber items weren't available in some patches, but it was still a great idea.
Teufel Eldritch
Yay! No more casino spam!
a_scrawny_gnoll01
Ha... banning casinos... that is just hillarious.
In all honesty, sure, I believe it will cut down spam, and less *stupid people* will try to scam people / attempt to triple their money /cough /cough.
I dont really see why they are doing this (other than the fact that it is spam...) Trading with other players is your own act of free will (so to speak) so they really have no power, in my opinion, to say that we cant trade with other 'casino players' in attempt to get more money.
Sure I may be wrong, and Anet may feel that they can do whatever they want (and why shouldnt they), but I feel that they have no right to exercise the power to ban people who want to /trade /roll for potetntial monetary values.
/rant off
-There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.
In all honesty, sure, I believe it will cut down spam, and less *stupid people* will try to scam people / attempt to triple their money /cough /cough.
I dont really see why they are doing this (other than the fact that it is spam...) Trading with other players is your own act of free will (so to speak) so they really have no power, in my opinion, to say that we cant trade with other 'casino players' in attempt to get more money.
Sure I may be wrong, and Anet may feel that they can do whatever they want (and why shouldnt they), but I feel that they have no right to exercise the power to ban people who want to /trade /roll for potetntial monetary values.
/rant off
-There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.
Ramus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Madjik
There ya go ramus, its in consideration. It wasnt about the spam anywho, was all about the scam.
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goku19123
If they didn't spam in the local (or global or w.e channel it is), and spammed in the trade channel, then I wouldn't care, because I can uncheck the damn trade channel and be on my merry way. But when I need the local channel to find people for a group, and I can't see a damn response in all the spam of casinos, then that is a problem.
Yojinj
In behalf of moral and the community, thank you very much for removing "player" casino's.
Fraktyl
Hate to say this, but almost every other MMOG/MMORPG/***G has banned the Casinos also.
I can see both sides of the arguement here.
Yes, most people would realize you could get scammed if you play. But who's to say who "most" people are? Just as in real life, you're going to run into the a**hats. There are people that make it their main goal to ruin the online experience of others. How do you tell them apart from the "Legit" (and I use this word loosely) Casinos? There may, and probably are people who do run "Legit" ones. With the conditions for winning I've been seeing SPAMMED on Global/Trade, the odds are very much in the Houses favor.
Unfortunately, we don't pay to play this game. And even it was a monthly fee, we still don't get a whole lot of say. Anet makes the rules, just like Blizzard does with WoW, SoE with EQ/SW:G/EQII..etc.. you play on their servers, you play by their rules. Don't like it... play another game.
Also, look at the massive amounts of Spam trying to 'Scam' the Casino Runners? People trying to pad chat so it fills the box and over runs into the next line. If people don't know about UI customization, they could possibly fall for it.
This is a new game, its got it's growing pains. They changed Sigil icons to stop that scam, why wouldn't they shut down another possible one, from both the player and the Casino side?
I just hope Anet keeps up with it.
I can see both sides of the arguement here.
Yes, most people would realize you could get scammed if you play. But who's to say who "most" people are? Just as in real life, you're going to run into the a**hats. There are people that make it their main goal to ruin the online experience of others. How do you tell them apart from the "Legit" (and I use this word loosely) Casinos? There may, and probably are people who do run "Legit" ones. With the conditions for winning I've been seeing SPAMMED on Global/Trade, the odds are very much in the Houses favor.
Unfortunately, we don't pay to play this game. And even it was a monthly fee, we still don't get a whole lot of say. Anet makes the rules, just like Blizzard does with WoW, SoE with EQ/SW:G/EQII..etc.. you play on their servers, you play by their rules. Don't like it... play another game.
Also, look at the massive amounts of Spam trying to 'Scam' the Casino Runners? People trying to pad chat so it fills the box and over runs into the next line. If people don't know about UI customization, they could possibly fall for it.
This is a new game, its got it's growing pains. They changed Sigil icons to stop that scam, why wouldn't they shut down another possible one, from both the player and the Casino side?
I just hope Anet keeps up with it.
Madjik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ramus
Yes, I saw that. And as I said, if that was done FIRST, I would be fine with it. But by just outright banning it with no solution, they are just going to create more problems and the unlegit casinos will find better ways to scam people.
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DrSLUGFly
/shrug...
this emote is needed in game, really. And I think that they didn't foresee the abuse coming out of Casinos. The ban is no doubt a temporary solution since they recognize that this is something people enjoy (if nobody enjoyed it there would have nobody taking part to get scammed)
this emote is needed in game, really. And I think that they didn't foresee the abuse coming out of Casinos. The ban is no doubt a temporary solution since they recognize that this is something people enjoy (if nobody enjoyed it there would have nobody taking part to get scammed)
Lim-Dul
Quote:
| I for one am against, "Punishing the many, to stop the few" policy that developers take. |
Rothgar
Yes, very much thank you Arena Net. The spam was horrific by itself, but then you add in peple screaming about getting cheated, people telling them to STFU, accomplices say "Ya, I won from XXXX. He can be trusted", etc. it was getting unbearable.
Thank you again,
Rothgar
Thank you again,
Rothgar
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mav
Oh please, what were you scammed out of? Some gold? A couple plat?
If you were scammed, it's cause you fell for it. Plain and simple. Common sense is an ability not everyone has, and its something quite a bit of GW players lack. |
the second part shows exactly what kind of a person you basically are
BLAME THE VICTIM FOR FALLING FOR IT
MAYBE IT IS NOT A LACK OF COMMON SENSE BUT AN EXCESS OF TRUST BECAUSE THEY WERE LUCKY NOT TO HAVE MET PEOPLE WITH THAT MINDSET UP TO THEN
Ramus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lim-Dul
LOL? You just said that casino spammers only make up around 10% of the whole chat spamming. Of what "many" are speaking then? Who is punished by ANet's policy? The players that can't gamble anymore? ;-)
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You answered your own question, yes, players who can't gamble anymore are punished. If I want to waste my money, I should have the right. I payed for this game too and I should be able to spend what I make how I want.
Lim-Dul
OK - I'll put another way. Gambling is a psychic addiction. It doesn't matter if you're playing for money, in-game gold, beer or little stones - you always LOSE something and you can't let go off it. In the case of GW you mostly lose the time you've spent on playing the game. Gambling is not the way in which GW was meant to be played, so live with the ban. And yes - ANet HAS the right to decide how their game is played.
The money might be virtual, but the addiction is real. It's not very different from selling drugs to people.
The money might be virtual, but the addiction is real. It's not very different from selling drugs to people.
Sadye X
I also just want to say a very big thank you to ANet for this. This is the second issue that's been a fairly debated topic on the forums that they've addressed this week, and to that I say they're doing a wonderful job of paying attention to the gaming community as a whole.
Of course there are those people who will continue to argue the side that casinos should be allowed, or at least some form of such. To those people I do suggest actually reading the rules of conduct rather than simply getting upset and flaming, and I'd also encourage them to also consider things from the perspective of doing what's best for the gaming community as a whole. Again, this has been addressed by ANet because it's been detrimental to an enjoyable gaming experience for the vast majority of players.
Goodbye casinos & Good job Anet
Of course there are those people who will continue to argue the side that casinos should be allowed, or at least some form of such. To those people I do suggest actually reading the rules of conduct rather than simply getting upset and flaming, and I'd also encourage them to also consider things from the perspective of doing what's best for the gaming community as a whole. Again, this has been addressed by ANet because it's been detrimental to an enjoyable gaming experience for the vast majority of players.
Goodbye casinos & Good job Anet
Lim-Dul
Quote:
| I payed for this game too and I should be able to spend what I make how I want. |
Your way of thinking leads to a dead end - you have absolutely no right to decide on whatever aspect of GW. Either you live with it, or leave the game. As long as ANet doesn't lose too many players we can happily continue to play it the right way. :-P
P.S. You Americans are funny in your concept of "having a right to sth." - you should have the right to do this, you should have the right to do that and at the same time you censor somebody's mouth (!!!) when he/she says "shit" or "****" and are afraid to show a nipple in any movie lest it would get a rating of like XXX. ;-)
Rothgar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lim-Dul
P.S. You Americans are funny in your concept of "having a right to sth." - you should have the right to do this, you should have the right to do that and at the same time you censor somebody's mouth (!!!) when he/she says "shit" or "****" and are afraid to show a nipple in any movie lest it would get a rating of like XXX. ;-)
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And if you want to rant at me Lim, go ahead, but I will not be answering back in this tread since this is very off topic.
Madjik
Sorry Lim~Dul, casinos werent banned because of addiciton, addiction doesnt have anything to do with it. Nor, Sadye X, does the TOS (rules of conduct) say anything about casino's being forbidden.
Once again, casinos were banned because of the scamming. So much of it was going on that A.Net decided it was time to pull the plug, and yes, scamming is against the TOS (or rules of conduct, what have you). So if your upset about this ruling, tell it to the scammers, who have once again, ruined somthing for you. A.net aint the bad guy here, stop looking at them like they are. You might still be happily rolling away today if it werent for all the scamming that went on. In the mean time, you'll just have to wait for a.net to release some kind of casino in game. Lim~Dul is right about one thing, its a.nets game. They make the rules and are the government. If they decide "No gambleing" your stuck with it.
So far, they have not banned gambling, just player run casinos, and the fact that thier considering putting some kind of system in game specifically so that you can gamble should make you happy, start up a thread in the sanitarium somewhere and start posting suggestions, instead of arguing against a desicion thats already been made. Doing this will not only help confirm that you want it, but give them some kind of idea how to implement it. Use your heads folks, your only wasting your breath by getting upset about this, its obvious they would have braced themselves for the impact from the gambling community. A.net wants you to enjoy thier game just like everyone else so get into the sanitarium and start tellin em what kind of in game based gambleing system you want instead of wasting brain cells arguing over piddle.
Once again, casinos were banned because of the scamming. So much of it was going on that A.Net decided it was time to pull the plug, and yes, scamming is against the TOS (or rules of conduct, what have you). So if your upset about this ruling, tell it to the scammers, who have once again, ruined somthing for you. A.net aint the bad guy here, stop looking at them like they are. You might still be happily rolling away today if it werent for all the scamming that went on. In the mean time, you'll just have to wait for a.net to release some kind of casino in game. Lim~Dul is right about one thing, its a.nets game. They make the rules and are the government. If they decide "No gambleing" your stuck with it.
So far, they have not banned gambling, just player run casinos, and the fact that thier considering putting some kind of system in game specifically so that you can gamble should make you happy, start up a thread in the sanitarium somewhere and start posting suggestions, instead of arguing against a desicion thats already been made. Doing this will not only help confirm that you want it, but give them some kind of idea how to implement it. Use your heads folks, your only wasting your breath by getting upset about this, its obvious they would have braced themselves for the impact from the gambling community. A.net wants you to enjoy thier game just like everyone else so get into the sanitarium and start tellin em what kind of in game based gambleing system you want instead of wasting brain cells arguing over piddle.
a_scrawny_gnoll01
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
the plat may have taken them hours to get in the early part of the game so the lost time could be important to them
the second part shows exactly what kind of a person you basically are BLAME THE VICTIM FOR FALLING FOR IT MAYBE IT IS NOT A LACK OF COMMON SENSE BUT AN EXCESS OF TRUST BECAUSE THEY WERE LUCKY NOT TO HAVE MET PEOPLE WITH THAT MINDSET UP TO THEN |
Pathetically enough, trust is a long gone aspect of most (if not all) MMORPG's to date.
So for future reference, do not dump loads of money on someone you do not know. Use common sense, and consider what you are doing. Dont throw that 20p to some 'nice looking guy' because he said he was nice. Do not throw your money at some "casino person", even when 20 people are saying that he is legit. They may be people in on it, or he may feel that your money is worth more to him then it is to you.
^^ notes all caps.
And one more thing, the bleading heart complaint saying that someone trusted a scammer is just plain dumb.
If they were honestly scammed, they care nothing about the money they lost, or the fact that someone scammed them. They are just pissed off because someone "stole" from them, /cough, and they want to fix their ego.
Yes this forum is a little off, and I do agree that the scammers should be thrown in a metal crate and dumped in the middle of a raging snake pit.
<--- no offense meant to anyone. Voicing my opinion, and I do feel that this forum should be closed.
-There are three kinds of people in this world those who can count, and those who can't.
Shandoo Bilari
And at the end of the day Casinos are still banned - /clap
Michael Jozwik
I also applaud this decision, casinos needed to go. Scamming aside the spam created by casinos was obnoxious
gwden
The only thing casinos bring is scammers and spammers.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a_scrawny_gnoll01
Ignorance is not an excuse.
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CtrlAltDel
yep funny people are like
'i bought this game i want to do what i want to do'
you just bought the right to play the game by their rules
thats what that little 'i agree' checkbox is for when you install the sucker...AND when you sign up
if you want to be in a casino, ultimatebet.com is calling you...
'i bought this game i want to do what i want to do'
you just bought the right to play the game by their rules
thats what that little 'i agree' checkbox is for when you install the sucker...AND when you sign up
if you want to be in a casino, ultimatebet.com is calling you...
C-Tzar
No more casino spam? Sweet!
Lim-Dul
OK, Rothgar and Madjik - I'm sorry for throwing in the "American" theme in my post. =)
Nevertheless you're not right in your statement, Madjik.
In fact they ARE banning gambling altogether.
Nevertheless you're not right in your statement, Madjik.
Quote:
| Due to the proliferation of casinos and their potential for player abuse, we will be blocking the accounts of those who advertise or operate casinos or other gambling schemes within the game, effective immediately. Players should be aware that casinos are a breach of the Rules of Conduct, as is the advertisement or promotion of cheats, hacks, of exploits. None of these things will be accepted within Guild Wars. |
Arrow Whisper
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Adaria
Please, don't turn this into an argument already...
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Madjik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We may consider offering an NPC or other in-game system for gambling. Would that make us hypocritical? Of course not! Closing casinos wasn't a statement on casinos or gambling. It was a statement made and a promise kept to maintain a game world free of abuse and the exploitation of other players, to the best of our ability. If a gambling option is added to Guild Wars, it will offer a fair system from which exploitation is precluded. The decision on that is up to the designers, of course, with our thanks for the valuable suggestions and the valid reports offered on this whole subject.
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Quote:
| due to the proliferation of casinos and their potential for player abuse |
I was NOT incorrect in saying what I said, just incorrect in how i phrased it. For that I appologize.