For PvPers: Why are you against 'unlock through PvP', why UAS?

Reading through this, it doesn't really seem like it's moved anywhere past the first page, first page was alright and moved at a decent, well mannered pace. After that, it's just people coming up with smart ass remarks to everyone elses comments, trying to prove them wrong or ignore what they said entirely.

Whining and fighting amongst yourselves isn't going to solve ANY problem, the devs are aware of the situation, end of story, what's taking place in this thread, along with all the other threads exactly like this, is senseless and ultimately heading towards no end.

Stretch your legs, grab a drink, play the game.

Cheers.

How the heck do yah run outta SP's?? I have nearly every skill on my rgr/mo and something like 30 SP left... unless you changed subs which is screwed up imho and needs to be fixed (SP REFUND).

Ensign

you are the numbers man here

what if you got a skill point for every x thousand points and it was locked after level 20 (at whatever figure was reasonable) instead of expanding constantly

would that be enough to make a viable change?

a thousand
maybe a few thousand?

opinion please or is it a useless idea from the start?

How did I run out of SP?

Easy. I used them.

Did you do skill quests? (Those dont take SP's)

Yeah, I did skill quests. And yes, I used my sp for other skills.

And PieXags, your wrong about everthing because I said you were!

Then that doesn't make any sense. Your'e buying more than you're questing for by far.
My ME/Ele and Rgr/Mo have lots of leftover SP's and have 85-90% skills.

Haha, ah wonderful.

That's what I'm here for, to lighten the mood. People get too tweaked over games like this, people just need to learn to be more patient, sit back, relax, eat and drink what you can while playin' some GW, win, lose, get massacred or fight bravely to a wonderous victory, makes no difference to me.

On a side note, I'm at the Iron Mines of Melan...dou...whatever the hell, and I've unlocked every single skill and done all the quests for skills I could up to this point, have about 30 extra skill points left over, how are you people running out? I mean, typically a build only focuses on about 3 attributes anyway, do you really need to buy ALL those other skills? Then I guess you could have a problem.

If you're buying them to have them, just for the hell of it, I guess I can understand that. Whatever floats yer boat I suppose.

I buy the ones I can't quest for or don't have quests currently for, because I learned from experience and past BWE's never to count a skill out as worthless. Most of the time I like to take a new skill I haven't used before and try it out. I never lock myself into one specific build and play style, I like the skills so I can be flexible.

Well, contrary to your belief, nearly every competitive gamer IS making an issue of the grind. I do, as well as nearly everyone i know in my guild and other top guilds. For me personally, there is nothing left to do but compete, since i've grown so sick of grinding that I outright refuse to do it until a fix comes. 90% of my guild have outright quit the game due to the grind alone. My form of competing lately has been degraded to forming pickup groups in tombs, which although successful (won hoh twice today with my pug) It is not what i really want to be doing in this game.

We ARE waiting for a level playing field, if it doesnt come, the competitive community will leave. End of story.

PvPers don't want "Over Time" solutions. We need skills NOW. We need to be competitive NOW. It's not like in PvE where you can squeeze by with even the most awful skill set. Builds = Victory in PvP. and the skills make the build. So what do you do when you want ___ skill but you can't get ___ skill!? You become less effective or have to completely redo your build - sometimes, that's not an option.

UAS has no negitive effects on the PvE whining carebears.

Except that then if they want to do both PvP and PvE they'll be cheated out of using their PvE character because it'll be worse than the PvP characters most likely, and then they'd have to use one of their few character slots to create a PvP character instead of being able to use all their characters to their fullest.

To post on-topic:

PvP grind for skills can help PvPers but it is a bad system for casual gamers and PvPers that come to the game late.

You don't want to be fighting against people that have all the skills to unlock all the skills. Much better to get what you need in a non-competitive settings like PvE.

However, at this point, anything that makes getting skills more accessible is a good thing.


Off topic:
I think Ensign is right about the inflexibilty of the RP characters. Currently there is little reason to take an RP character to PvP if you are a person who likes to change up builds.

However I disagree with the idea that RP characters can't compete with PvP characters. While many people have this point of view, it is nonsensical. If RP characters are fine with competing against RP characters that have all lthe skill unlocked then they should be fine competing against PvP characters with all the skills unlocked. However as Ensign mentions, equipment is a real issue and so is RP character inflexibility.

As for skill points... Does anyone see why we need skill points versus just purchasing skills (at increasing cost)? It doesn't seem like we need two mechanisms to slow down skill acquisition. I'm not even sure why we need to slow down skill acquisition at all, since having a diversity of skills only increases replayability and improves the metagame.

You forget Ensign very good point: the fun to play the mirror of your PvE character.

So one spend like 60 hours getting a character all the way up to level 20, on the way, one gets some decent equipment (without even looking for it), + nearly all skills doing the skill quest. Sure, the character may not have it all, it got flaws, and you may not have all skills: still you've played 60 hours along, had fun doing so, have played a bit in PvE arena and you look forward keep playing that character.
So you mirror it in PvP.
It's not going to be really fun to face UAS players.

I also think the "UAS is good for casual gamers" line is a bit fallacious. GW got a lot of combinations going, and the games rules are not really obvious. I think it takes time to learn the game, and learning skill interaction is part of that. That's a pretty long process.
UAS is not going to help the casual gamer. Instead of having simple, easy to use builds that are roughly efficient, the casual gamers will face gazillion of options, will pick the wrong one, and get owned by the one who have been throught the "PvP" grind ( ) and learnt the game and can make full use of the UAS.
If anything, UAS is going to increase the range between hardcore gamers who can make full use of all the goodies handed to them, and the casual gamers, who got no clue what works together.
If you really want to help the casual gamer, the one who just want to log and play for a bit of fun, make the standard PvP build more efficient.
People pretending to have casual gamers interest at heart got their own hardcore PvP gamers agenda that would be largely detrimental to casual gamers.

Louis,

It's like I said, Louis, "grinding" for the skills will help people how to learn them better. There's the hardcore pvpers who know the combinations, and know how to work each skill, but there's also a large group who don't. Putting in a UAS would just make it so that they don't ever learn. Half the pvp from the BWE where they had UAS was crap, cuz a million n00bs never learned how to play their combo's and their skills correctly, and you'd face a competent team even less than you do now. Giving people skills one at a time makes them learn how to use what they've got, and come up with new tricks that they never would have thought of otherwise, and makes pvp better. Do I think that it should take as long as it does for pvpers to unlock all the skills? Hell no. Do I think they should have to pve to get the the skills? No way. They should be able to get skills through pvp, and it should take a week, max, or a hardcore gamer who already knows what their doing maybe 4 days. I want to pvp with a lot of skills at my disposal, but there needs to be good pvp at the same time. Weezer, Laz, you guys know how to pvp. You guys I'm sure are good at it. But there's a lot who aren't and who don't, who if they had an access to a UAS, would never learn any new tricks. You guys may be smart, but a lot of people are dumb, and need a short forced learning curve to get better. Like I said, a week maximum of getting the skills, that's not too bad, and it'll force them to learn how to play. I'd rather pvp against good players and force myself to get better than fight against a large majority of meatheads with no clue what their doing.

Just get rid of all skills, runes and armour in pvp. Make everyone level 1, give them starter weapons. Then it will be a 'balanced playing field', because obviously skills will never be balanced, runes are pointless if everyone has them, same with armour and weapons.

You simply cannot take FPS mechanics into RPG's. The competitive PvP strips the game down to its very basics (lower graphics settings, try to get as low a ping as possible etc.) and while FPS'es counter this with direct control over combat, RPG's eventually get stripped down to a card game/tic tac toe.

I maintain that the point of PvP should be fun, not winning. If that ever changes in GW, I stop playing, simple as.

Wow... I get 2 SP's in half a day. Did you ever try Fissure of Woe / underworld? 10'000 exp per quest. There's lots of them, and they can be done more than once.

Hardcore gamers will always be the most 'skilled' players, with or without UAS. There is no 'grind', only time invested learning how to play well. With an UAS you cheat yourself out of learning time, and then you will complain that hardcore gamers are STILL better than you.

As was pointed out many times before, it does indeed have an effect. UAS would kill the PvE part of the game... doing skill quests just isnt fun or rewarding when everything is just a click away.

I dont think I'm a carebear, some people were pretty annoyed when I went on my last 45 consecutive wins (42 flawless) spree.

With all due respect, you are the ones whining... the ones who enjoy both PvE and PvP, which is maybe half the playerbase, are content with the game and see no need to whine.

That half would likely quit over an UAS button.

Actually, no that's incorrect.

There's a ton of skills all having different effects,and if people have access to how they want to play (though I support a different way of skills other than a UAS, see my post right aboce john's), then your going to have a million variations of skills, fighting styles, and tactics, in which the personal skill with using the in game skills will be your advantage. Skills are balanced in this, people just need to get them.

Runes do not reduce to being worthless. With the runes benefits and downsides, not every hammer warrior for example will use a superior hammer rune, but some will, and other will use different. It depends on how much your willing to sacrifice to get the extra stats, and that can change a build.

1) Ensign, you Da Man. I agree with everything you said.

2) Celes Tial, UAS would kill the PvE for those who don't want to be there. I don't want to do PvP, I only want to do PvE, and I'll keep PvE'ing even if there's a UAS button.
As I've said, getting the people who don't want to do PvE out of PvE is my reason for supporting UAS in PvP. As I've said I really don't see the value in forcing people to do PvE when they don't want to. I've not seen anyone actually answer that question either.

Dont try to join one of my tombs groups then.
me: do you have xyz skill?
you: no i have abc and fgh though.
<me boots you>

seriously, certain builds require certain skills. The fact that i have to skip over people in groups just to get the kind of team i need on top of the constraints of having competent players, and getting them all on voice just adds to the time and frustration in getting pvp set up and running. The other day i put my whole team on hold for 20 minutes before we started while one of our ele's went out to grab elemental attunement. This kind of stuff really irritates me.