Does UAS/UAR "cheapen" PvE? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

DarrenJasper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 04:10 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontahcRemire

As to the question of why we are still here? Because this is our game. We came here seeking refuge from all the asinine MMORPG's and stupid CS players. This game is intelligent PvP. It is complex and it is wonderful.

And Most of All It Was STOLEN FROM US.

This game was advertised as low/no grind. My first character took 80 hours to get up to level 20 with moderate skills and equipment. The worst part is: I got RUSHED THERE. Thats like saying I cheated at poker and drew nothing.

We've tried, ok. We have tried. I have watched agony diminish from one of the most competitive groups in guild wars to people who barely log on. We've had the most players on recently that we've had since release. But do you know why that is? Gunz Online. Yeah, I said it. Its more fun and it rewards people for doing what they want.

Really thats what this is about. When we get rewarded for doing pvp the way the game is DESIGNED then we'll be happy, until then we will bitch and moan till theres no tomorrow. I will not move on to another game but drag this one down kicking and screaming because it could have been so good.

This was the silver bullet to save us from idiocy, and carebears have sodomized it and made it their plaything. Thats what this is about. I want my Game Back. I want all skills. I want either all the runes or runes to be abolished. I WANT EQUALITY AND I WANT IT NOW. I want it sooner than now. I want it last week when agony still played guild wars. We are sick and we are tired and we are angry and this was everyone's game that got turned into only the MMORPG'ers game. If you don't understand then learn. If you don't agree because you don't need it then let us plead our case. The only coherent argument I have heard is preference, and thats no real argument.

I want guild wars back from the carebears.

IF I WERE POSTING ON THIS THREAD IT MIGHT HAVE SOUNDED LIKE THIS.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

15 Jun 2005 at 04:38 - 162

MontahcRemire pretty much said it all.

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

15 Jun 2005 at 06:59 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontahcRemire

This game was advertised as low/no grind. My first character took 80 hours to get up to level 20 with moderate skills and equipment. The worst part is: I got RUSHED THERE. Thats like saying I cheated at poker and drew nothing.

Alright, now I've just got to comment on this...

Who the hell rushed you? I got ascended in less than 80 hours and I beat all the missions and quests up to that point with mostly HENCHMEN. Were you sitting there looking at the scenery for 70+ hours?! Honestly, you would've made it faster and with better gear if you hadn't tried so hard to get around playing the game. If you would've played it, even with henchmen, you would've made it just as fast if not faster, and you would've learned more about the game, unlocked more skills, had more experience, etc. The group that "rushed" you...is one of the slowest groups I've ever heard of. That isn't rushing you. Rushing you is getting you to amnoon oasis while only doing 2-3 missions and skipping most every town that wasn't necessary, and getting ascended in less than 8 hours. THAT is how to rush someone...an 80 hour rush? You must've done something wrong.

Remire I don't think you bothered to read any of the posts from myself, or Sekkira, explaining the obvious faults in a UAS/UAR button. If you want this to be counter strike---go play counter strike. Seeing as how you've admitted to bitching and moaning knowing that you're dragging the game down...well hell, I don't very much see why the hell we'd listen to someone who wants to drag the game down anyways. I just don't see sense in that.

Read peoples posts before you go and post something that's obviously had counter points stated before. (Sort of like...this entire thread.)

I'll tell you what I want, not a UAS/UAR button, I want a button that stops myself from continuing to post in this. (I've no self control.)

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

15 Jun 2005 at 08:06 - 164

You beat all missions and quests in less than 80 hours - with henchmen?
On your first time through the game?
Hm.

Anyway, let's see if I can summarize the obvious faults in an UAS/UAR button, as explained by you and Sekkira:

1) An UAS/UAR button would be unfair to those who've unlocked all skills/runes through PvE - they grinded for 300 hours before the game was even released to get where they are, everyone else can too!
2) The developers meant it that way.
3) The PvP is not supposed to be a level playing field. If you want a level playing field, go play Counterstrike.
4) The developers meant it that way.
5) People who play PvE & PvP should absolutely, positively, under no circumstances, EVER, have their PvE builds at an unfair disadvantage to other peoples purpose-built PvP characters. That their PvE characters presently have an unfair advantage in PvP over other peoples purpose-built PvP characters is right & proper, because...
6) The developers meant it that way.

If I was a cynical person, I'd say the opposition to UAS really boils down to PvP+PvE players wanting to have an unfair advantage over pure PvP players when playing PvP, and defending this unfair situation with that that is what the devs wanted.

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 09:17 - 165

RP characters are ALREADY at a huge disadvantage. UAS would not change that at all! why? Because its already in the game. It just takes time to unlock everything, but it is possible. Everyone who likes pvp the way it is already has most of the stuff unlocked. So if i go into pvp with my rpg character, i will BE at a disadvantage. Everyone who plays this card is plain lying or has no clue. UAS would just allow more people to have an advantage over the RP character. In 3 months, UAS would not do anything at all. Since pvp players have either left or grinded out everything.

* i have the same impression btw: Evergrinders invaded our secret refuge, burned down everything and build a temple of evil on top of it. I bought GW because its NOT like every other game out there. So i can try it out and decide what i like most... but honestly grind in AO > grind in GW.

xaanix

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2005

Woodbridge NJ

[Nu] Nuclear Launch Detected

W/E

15 Jun 2005 at 10:05 - 166

Honestly i dont see the reason not to have UAS or some other mechanic that assists players in getting to the pvp side of the game without it being on crutches. PvEers only complaint is that PvP characters would have an advantage over RP characters in PvP, but i'm willing to dismiss this complaint because if a PvE player really wants to participate on even ground in pvp, all they need to do is spend 5 mins and roll up a PvP character. PvPers have no such option when it comes to them getting on even ground in PvP. Instead of it taking 5 minutes, it takes us 300+ hours. Sorry but my time is valuable, and grinding is NOT entertainment to me.

Give us UAx or some alternate path of advancement (fame based unlocks) and you will solve the problem for the PvP community. The change really doesnt affect PvE players, as they are still able to enjoy the PvE content which they desire. Some PvE players may feel that it is unfair to give PvPers all the unlocks which they have to work for, but there is a key difference, PvP characters are restricted to pvp areas. This means that all that work you put into your PvE character IS rewarded, as you are able to access high level PvE content with that character. PvP would still be accessible with that PvE character as well, if you desired, but PvP would primarily consist of PvP characters with full unlocks for purposes of providing a level playing field where skill and teamwork determines victory.

In other words, bringing a pve character into pvp becomes an individual choice, and not a rule of thumb. If you want to bring a non-finished pve character into pvp, it may handicap you, but you are taking that handicap on by your own will, noone is forcing you to be at a handicap if you dont wish to be. Aside from players who intentionally handicap themselves, all other competition in those areas is on an entirely level playing field, as competitive play should be, and needs to be. I think the tendancy to be overly careful about maintaining RP characters viability in PVP has forced the game into the current situation, where PvP play is severely impacted, and PvP players are becoming frustrated and quitting the game. Hopefully this gets fixed soon.

Nad

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 11:10 - 167

Quote:

Remire I don't think you bothered to read any of the posts from myself, or Sekkira, explaining the obvious faults in a UAS/UAR button. If you want this to be counter strike---go play counter strike. Seeing as how you've admitted to bitching and moaning knowing that you're dragging the game down...well hell, I don't very much see why the hell we'd listen to someone who wants to drag the game down anyways. I just don't see sense in that.

Another nonsensical post. How is he, "dragging the game down"? Did you mean, "pointing out obvious flaws in gameplay and player satisfaction"? . And stop telling us to go play other games, in his post that YOU REPLIED TO he explained why we are not going to do that...yet. In fact, I think its you that needs to go play another game, I hear WoW offers a much better PvE experience..

This game is aweful as it is right now. I'm kicking myself for telling ALL of my friends that im not gonna play WoW with them, and that I would just wait for GW. I figured there would be better competition and less time grinding. 300 hours and im finally ready to pvp, thats bullshit. I could have a max level character, out kicking ass with my friends in Battlegrounds in that ammount of time. This game is nothing like what it promised, and I think most of the Pro-UAS people posting here just don't want to see this game fizzle out and die. It has so much potential, but right now its burried under heaps of generic MMO horseshit.

MontahcRemire

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Agony Guild [AGNY] ?Arnk

N/Me

15 Jun 2005 at 12:18 - 168

Quote:

They said skill decides your fate---and it DOES. It just might not be ALL that decides your fate. A loophole? Possibly. But that's not what I'm here to discuss.

Do you know why I'm mad and seem nonsensical to you? Because I'm speaking an entirely different language. You're speaking the language of a happy gamer who wants no change and I'm speaking the language of the opressed gamer who got his game stolen from him.

I'm not adressing any of your arguments because through 6 pages of the drivel I've been as blessed as I have been to listen to I haven't heard any coherent arguments. I've heard preference. "Elite Skills Should Be Elite," "Why do I need PvP Characters With All The Skills." If you want to give it to me in bullet points that'd be great so I can just knock them out in one post

I hate to break it to you but this change would not effect you in any way. Skill gems/charms are out of the economy now! That was the last way this could have effected the PvE experience of anyone negatively.

Xag, I hate to break it to you but the PvP environment that you so dearly want to participate in, since you obviously have a huge stake in this (the implication being that Agony Guild, Fianna, Neg-0, and the other recognized pvp guilds don't), is gimped. They cut the legs off of it so PvE'ers could have some fun. Now its dragging itself by the hands and it sucks. People need options. People Need Counters. PEOPLE NEED UAS/UAR TO FEEL COMPETITIVE! We do not have robust competition right now and in order to get it we need everything and we need it last week! Now is a substitute that I'm none too happy about but I will take it gladly.

Its a nice little equation really: Skill/Timeplayed = Win
But, if skill is equal then it turns into a constant: K/Timeplayed= Win
Hrm, that doesn't sound like what I was promised.

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

15 Jun 2005 at 17:30 - 169

I dont think they should implement UAS/UAR ... it just doesnt make any sense and would currently limit PvE to some poor hack and slash for worthless xp. I usually only do the quests that reward me with skills to save my skill points, if some people dont have the patience to accuire them, well, there are many other titles out there that fir your specific desires.

A major attraction to this game is it hits both markets fairly well. Both RPers and tactics and strategy hounds like myself. Instead of pounding the UAS/UAR I think there has to be another alternative ... imo its really not worth implementing, unless the devs want to drop PvE and focus on building a PvP game. They would likely lose hundreds of thousands of people. I can only guestimate the number (as I have no real server statistics telling me we have 54,000 in the tombs across all our servers, 148,000 in pvp arenas and battles, and 200,000 across the PvE servers)

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 17:44 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Oh please. The only thing you will affect is their profit margin - the servers aren't going anywhere.

AGH I promised I wouldn't post on this thread

I wouldn't be so sure, to be honest. I have no idea how the division between PvE and PvP players is, but there have already been MMORPGs (ie, games that require a ton of servers and bandwith) that have had their plug pulled.

So someone simply saying "Hey, maybe all the PvE guys will leave in four months" is not really thinking things through.

If Anet stops making money, they WILL take those servers down.

Creston

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 18:35 - 171

Most of the examples given on how PvP in imbalanced are with runes. However, with the rune trader here, its already pretty close to a UAR scenerio. Most of the runes are ridiculously cheap, with the exception being superior vigor and superior absorbtion. However, Majors Vigor is only 9 points less and costs 10k(a easily obtainable amount even after the patch)

The difference between a major and a superior vigor really isn't that much, considering many attacks have damage ranges and 9 hp most of the times isn't going to save you from an otherwise lethal hit.

On the topic of skills, someone said earlier that make all non-elite skills unlocked for PvP. I personally think that is a great idea. It still leaves the elites for the PvE players to capture, while PvP would have all the access to the "counters" they want. If there's an elite skill they need for their build, they can easily capture it now with the recent patch, and with all the normal skills unlocked, they should have more than enough skill points for elites.

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

15 Jun 2005 at 18:48 - 172

but if you follow that idea ... which isnt bad ... you should balance the PvE aspect. By taking out a reward(skill) from PvE ... or not needing to do the quest ... alternative creative rewards should be formulated in place of. Otherwise although you still need to waste points on it in PvE ... it will still seem less signifigant. But I'm sure Anet has thought this one over and beat this topic with a stick over and over and over. So I really just gotta be happy with how they have built this game and kept it balanced thus far.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 18:55 - 173

Kishin

a belated thank you for the information and effort

MontahcRemire

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Agony Guild [AGNY] ?Arnk

N/Me

15 Jun 2005 at 23:47 - 174

Stumpy, if it gets the PvP game fixed, I will help come up with enough hours of PvE to keep anyone happy. I'm not saying, and I don't think anyone believes, that the game needs to only be good for one crowd. I think this game needs PvE work as well, but my problem is with the PvP because its the easiest to fix. The addition of other reward systems for PvE players would be a given considering how important skill grinding is now.

As to the idea of UAR being already implemented because of the rune trader, I suggest you go look up the price of a superior vigor. Not to mention that you have to buy one for every character you create because you need to unlock the rune not just have it. If A.Net were to place unlocking kits into the game that could unlock pre-identified items then you would be superbly correct, but right now I don't have 20 plat lying around for a superior fire rune, and you only find a superior vigor once in a blue moon if at all there.

To Unlocking all skills but elites, I'd accept it rather than nothing. That said, its still a piss-poor substitute. Look at my example with spellbreaker. The elites are often the best answers, and in a competitive environment that translates to the only viable answer. Still no good.

I'm all for an alternate solution, but I've thought long and hard about this and the only one I can think of is UAS/UAR to fix the PvP completely. Hell, if this gets backed by people from the PvE community then I'll be vocal for making the PvE game have more depth too. I'm not just a PvP fanatic, I do play the PvE game for enjoyment but the PvE is a wheel you have to get on voluntarily, otherwise you get stuck in the gears and it becomes grind.

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

15 Jun 2005 at 23:52 - 175

I'm going to have to say ArenaNet's professional game designers and staff of developers have put more thought into this than you (or any of us for that matter) have.

I'm going to have to say (by virtue of them designing and running this game) that their decision's pretty clear and they are the most qualified people to decide - based on their own trending, metrics, polling, and data - how to handle this "problem".

I'm going to have to say this thread should probably be closed since neither side is convincing the other of anything, despite logical arguments on both sides.

[ ]

The Pope

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 00:23 - 176

I wonder why the rewards for PvE have to be PvP based? Are Anet really asking people to go dropping parties halfway through missions to maximise their unlock rate?

Naralis

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 01:26 - 177

What about unlocking all skills for a the primary profession once you beat Dragon's Lair? Wouldn't that shut up both the PvEs and PvPers?

Spike

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

In front of my PC

Kai

E/Mo

16 Jun 2005 at 01:28 - 178

How about if PVP's get everything they want, but are then forever "banned" from pve and all expansions

sounds good to me

Phaedrus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 01:47 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

I wonder why the rewards for PvE have to be PvP based? Are Anet really asking people to go dropping parties halfway through missions to maximise their unlock rate?

They're actually trying to promote team play and cohesive guilds. Many successful guilds will clear areas to get elites for everyone in the party. They'll run missions together to farm, cap, and play together. Not everyone is a solo PvP player who wants to disconnect in the middle of a mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

How about if PVP's get everything they want, but are then forever "banned" from pve and all expansions sounds good to me

...and if I want to play PvP with my PvE character? Oh, a glaring inequity. Hrm.

[ ]

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

16 Jun 2005 at 01:59 - 180

"That's how they intended it" is a bullshit arguement. I'd rather you not post if you're going to use an argument that makes no sense at all. "Thats how they intended it". Ok. Why? And why won't they change it? If you use this arguement, I sympathize for your mental condition. I believe it's called "idiocy".

PvEers are already at a horrible disadvantage. Adding UAS/UAR wouldn't further this in any way.

Narcism

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ottawa, ON, Canada

Mostly Harmless

W/

16 Jun 2005 at 03:42 - 181

Guild Wars prerelease:

Level 1-20 Ascalon -> Sanctum Cay
Endgame = Sanctum Cay
Many skills on trainers and capturable
Skill Charms

Guild Wars postrelease:

Level 1-20 Ascalon -> Desert
Endgame = Volcano Missions
Some skills on trainers, not Elites on trainers, only available in the end-game
Skill Charms no longer exist.

Nothing wrong? Looks right? Intended? Still retaining their no-grind mentality?

MontahcRemire

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Agony Guild [AGNY] ?Arnk

N/Me

16 Jun 2005 at 03:49 - 182

Yes Phaedrus, I will concede that Arena.Net has put a considerablely greater amount of thought into this game then I have. To undermine Arena.Net's crown at that title would be foolhardy. That said, it doesn't mean they have thought of everything.

That said, Arena.Net isn't the one buying this game. Arena.Net wasn't the game this was marketed to. I bought this game, I got gipped out of my money. If they were offering refunds right now I would take one, but they're not so I'm asking for a solution.

Anyone remember the days when the PvP people didn't have to whine and moan about getting skills? When we could get on and manageably do all the PvE we needed to without having to grind for several hours and have everyone and their brother get to the lava missions, infuse their armor, and suck off prince rurik to be able to get to the game we wanted to play?

The Way They Intended It To Be Designed? Thats like saying Josef Stalin acted out communism the way it was designed. "The state controlled everything, and in a communist state people should be shot for taking a step away from the nazi's with rifles." This is some sick and twisted version of Skill/Time that no one asked for and we didn't want and everyone got. If you're happy with it then I'm sorry but this sucks.

Its exactly like narc said, before release minimal grind to get to PvP. After release everything changes. No preview, no heads up, just a change for the worse.

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

16 Jun 2005 at 04:21 - 183

It seems to me that if they made the ability to be full PvP from the get-go, they might as well give the game a bird's eye view, give you hordes of enemies to command and a tech tree.

Really, what's the point of an MMORPG if you don't do quests, adventure and find better weapons and armor? The game would not be satisfying at all. People would stop playing until next balance update every two weeks or so. If the option of going all PvP with only the thought of going up in rank was possible the game would bomb miserably because it would get for most players pretty boring fast.

Now, if you give players the need to unlock skills, armor and weapons, then you give them something to come back for because after an update that will send them out in the field to get wha they want, and then to the arena to use it.

That's my say. But, then again, if it would get the "SKIP SKIP SKIP TEH KUTSKENE, KNOWING WAT U IS DOIN 4 NUBZ" people off my back, then go ahead.

MontahcRemire

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Agony Guild [AGNY] ?Arnk

N/Me

16 Jun 2005 at 12:52 - 184

Sagius, explain to me in what way you are not forcing someone to what you would want to do in order to have fun. Now, explain to me how the game was played by 400,000 people in the Beta's in an exact replica of what we're asking for, and yet you say no one will play if theres no reward.

I'm sorry but the game is already made this way. In order for the game to have any long term PvP effect you need depth, and the only way you can achieve that standard is with an equal playing field. I know the PvE is shallow, and thats a problem too, but its a different problem than the one we're trying to solve and its one I want to get solved as well. After PvP gets fixed I'm turning my attention to the depth of the PvE game because there isn't any. Thats after the game starts out on a level playing field though.

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 13:44 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Really, what's the point of an MMORPG if you don't do quests, adventure and find better weapons and armor? The game would not be satisfying at all. People would stop playing until next balance update every two weeks or so. If the option of going all PvP with only the thought of going up in rank was possible the game would bomb miserably because it would get for most players pretty boring fast.
.

Sigh. A MMORPG was supposed to be a persistant world, where your character existed as a personality. You would chat, meet with friends, you would fight, you would explore, you would BE. Nothing else. Levels and stats, and powerfull items, this was supposed to be the mechanics to deliver the experience. Now the levels and the stats ARE the experience. Noone cares about story, noone is bothered by the fact that you can redo a mission where the main guy is still alive although you watched him die the last mission. Noone cares that you died 10 times in the mission the main guy dies his final death.

Hell if they add unlockable pokemons, noone would mind, because hey - unlockable us unlockable. Doesnt fit the world, the setting? So what, its something you will come back for.

Your thoughts on competitive pvp play say everything. CS. Starcraft. Chess.
How long have these been around? Yeah, people got bored because you cant upgrade your king to level 286. Thats why the quit.

Nad

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

16 Jun 2005 at 18:00 - 186

Quote:

Really, what's the point of an MMORPG if you don't do quests, adventure and find better weapons and armor? The game would not be satisfying at all

This is not a true MMOPRG, thats is why I bought it. Well no, correction...this wasn't supposed to be a typical MMORPG, but thats what it has turned into. I do enjoy finding better stuff for my character, but when it comes to competitive PvP I would much rather have a level playin field. I want to know I lost because I got outplayed, not becuase he has a better vigor/absorbtion rune and a huge variety of godly weapons for every occasion.

Even if there was some kinda of unlock system that rewarded PvP players, I would still have to play XXX ammount of matches before I have everything I want to PvP. I'm sick of having to go into tombs with a less then desirable tombs group just because we dont want to kick our friends out for not having X skill.

...broken

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

N/A

26 Jun 2006 at 12:10 - 187

EDIT: While necro-posting/resurrecting an ancient thread is not against the rules, posting useless drivel is. So is quoting and commenting on it which furthers the inanity. - Swampgirl

J3mo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

NL

Please contact the Administrator if your date of birth has changed.

Mo/

26 Jun 2006 at 16:51 - 188

They should make titles for experience since i think experience is fame when pve is pvp

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

26 Jun 2006 at 16:57 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

They should make titles for experience since i think experience is fame when pve is pvp

right...............

ive farmed the same mob for 8 hours a day for the last year and have 50,000,000 exp so i get a top rank.

/NOT SIGNED PERIOD

pure bandini

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

26 Jun 2006 at 18:21 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

ive farmed the same mob for 8 hours a day for the last year

WOW!

And I thought I was a trolltwatter

The Real Roy Keane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dublin, Ireland

26 Jun 2006 at 18:53 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

They should make titles for experience since i think experience is fame when pve is pvp

Experience is the poorest indication of PvE prowess. Not a chance.

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

26 Jun 2006 at 19:56 - 192

I think the design of factions show why UAS and UAR is bad diea for PvE.

Essentially, Factions does this already -- with high-experience quests, and skills simply handed to you, it takes only a few hours to build a character to level 20, with everything except elites.

Obviously, the story means nothign to most people, as evidenced by the prevalence of the Drok's Run in Tyria. A certain class of people have found a way around the Prophecies story, and other profit form it.

I have two major characters -- both have run both campaigns, one starting in Tyria and the other in Cantha. The Tyrian character took longer to build, and did far more little quests, and travelled more ground -- and is far more fun to play, because she has a history.

The Canthan character became very powerful very fast -- and then for 80% of the Canthan campaign, she did not grow or change much. It felt very pointless... and I never developed a strong feel for who the character was.

What is the point of levelling characters if everyone is level 20 instantly and has access to every skill?

PvP and PvE can co-exist, but please don't make PvE pointless by removing the challenge just to make PvPers happy.

frickett

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Shinigami Keys [SHIN]

R/Mo

26 Jun 2006 at 20:00 - 193

You can have a level playing field without all the numbers being equal.

COOL TROLL JOHN

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

mountains

E/R

26 Jun 2006 at 23:24 - 194

Lets say you unlock skills and runes. Now me as a PVE character, all i have to do is go to the arenas and grind for a few hours, now i can go to the priest turn in my points and pick up that elite skill that i've been wanting but didn't want to go to the end game to get. The same thing with runes i just go in turn in points to get the runes i want so now i don't have to do endless farming so i can salvage the runes i want. Not to mention that you have killed the economic value of the runes i have farmed. So what has happened here you have destroyed 2 of the main points of PVE. My conclusion first you can't touch runes because they are based in the economic system. Basically this game is built around a reward system, rewards are attained through accomplishment and accomplishment is earned by way of grinding whether it be PVP or PVE. There really is no short cut to the top. Rewards=accomplishments=grinding and working at what you want most. This is a good way to do things and it will never be made easy.

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

26 Jun 2006 at 23:36 - 195

You people are actually DISCUSSING this? Nobody realizes that before today, the last post in this thread was June 2005??

This thread is so old it smells like cheese. Some weener just rezzed it to be stupid.

Let it DIE. It's ancestors miss it.

Begone. RIP.

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

27 Jun 2006 at 00:27 - 196

I think at this point an UAS/UAR is hard to justify with Balthazar Faction.

However, I -do- think Balthazar Faction needs to be easier to get or the prices for Skills/Runes/Whatever should be cheaper.

Guild Wars somewhere further along the line, they could always go the way of the Korean Online game and offer skill/profession bundles for real money. Once we start hitting Chapters 5 on, I don't see how Guild Wars is going to get much new blood, especially PvP.

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

27 Jun 2006 at 01:01 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackell

God, do I agree. Anet also seems right now to be on a train ride to disaster. They keep taking away the challenges and efforts of pve and pissing the pve'ers off in order to bolster the effectiveness of pvp, but it's not making the pvpers happy because it's not what they want.

I would agree with you everything done was for the pvp players. balance they say. Yea know take away the rpg and gw will not make it to the next year! mark my words

gw seems to become less and less of an rpg!

go a head piss of the player base

Swampgirl Inez

"I love reading trash!"

Join Date: May 2005

Home Again

27 Jun 2006 at 03:04 - 198

Old thread, old arguement, same old flaming. Closed.