People banned for "exploiting".

Hehe, a class-action lawsuit because of a computer game - only in America.....


Apologies to all other Americans out there, well apart from the cheaters obviously who frankly got what they deserved.

Well, we americans do fairly stupid things. Like those people who sued McDonalds because they got fat...good times

entrapment? communism? this child is retarded so why is anyone taking this seriously at all. original poster should look up the definition of ignorance

Goodness...

1) No, farming is not forbidden. Anet doesn't LIKE farming, because it screws up the economy (mudflation), but it's not forbidden or grounds for ban, like using cheats, hacks, bots, exploits, or shouting racial slurs are.

2) Yes, sure those who got banned can sue. They just can't win.


Would the mods please lock this thread?

But we have to wait for more repetative arguments over an issue that has been done to death!!!!!!!

Look at all those exclamation points; now the thread has to get locked

I agree with whoever it was that said "their server, their rules". I am too lazy to quote :P

When we fly over Japan to our bases we have there (united states i am saying) There are rules. We break them all the time but in the real world, that gets you real problems, domestically, internationally, blah blah blah.

Well, arenanet sold you a game in a box that although you purchased a LICENSE to play their game, you do so on a remote location, servers they OWN and maintain.

This issue is the same argument as if, for example, you were invited to a company picnic, and because the boss's wife was asleep with her pants off somewhat, you could "exploit that loophole in her clothing" and then wonder why her husband turned you into ex-employee food of the gods.

You are in their playground on your own time, not the other way around.

Yeah, well on the bright side, stuff like this is what causes a companys downfall when it adds up one by one. From a stale PVP, to stupid bannings, to grinding issues, oh how being a game company must be hard.

Nice, more reason people quit the game. Don't worry, Holy Buddha might get banned for winning HoH with henchies someday at this rate.

They need to buy the rights for the name Diablo 3 too. Then add signature items like Windforce, Grandfather, and oh yeah, Enigma.

The question is, is it justifiable to continue exploiting for the sake of creating a statement? It took a whole week of exploiting just for Anet to fix Vengeance. What would've happened if only a handful of people used it and no one complained or exploited it? I believe that is what some people feel to be justified in their actions of exploiting.

You want them to ban over 100 members from War Machine? they didn't even win that much during tombs.

Your joking right? Try getting the statistics of vengeance used before and after the bug. When it wasn't bugged, almost no one used it because one shatter and you go poof. It's not worth it in most cases to pull off vengeance, and the cooldown makes it pathetic as a primary rez. And almost nobody has 2 rezzes since the game is setup the way it is. People intentionally rather pick a pathetic skill that has as much use as symbol of wrath in pvp, and grabbed it over restore life, rez sig, ressurect, and other such moves. Please play PVP before you assume. In the PVP community, vengeance was abuse, huge abuse. It replaced ANY form of ressurection. People made 8x /mos or mo/s just to take abuse of this. How is that not intentional?

Slight? I'm shocked. Do you PVP?

The main thing people must realize is that the other bugs were huge as well, possibly bigger then ascenscion. The real reason why they banned those people for the ascenscion bug was because of the change itself. Let us take a look before the 50k exp occurred.

Before: Ascenscion RUNS. Getting friends/guildies to power you through to augury so that you can go from lvl 3 to 20, then go BACK and get all the skill points. This gave bonus skill points. The thing is, Anet can't possibly ban you, because missions aren't a requirement to pass, you are allowed to go through the wilderness. No one can legitimately argue that it was an exploit, rather it was a shortcut. Seeing as how Guild Wars is a game that has no high end content that is attractive, they obviously wanted to keep players from finishing so fast. They changed it to 50k exp.

After: Now, they just put all this time into the change just so guys like Sama can't get their skills so they can PVP by the end of summer without still going "damn I wish I had X skill", then all of a sudden a exploit happens! Unlike other exploits, this exploit was similar to the one they were trying to fix, only now it made it bigger. Enraged, the team decided to ban the worse exploiters to make a statement. Even if they screw it up, your not allowed to exploit.

Of course, this is just one possible perspective. Could be true or not true, but any of the Arid Sea runners banned, and they argueably have a much larger advantage then exp runs. Skills are consistant, and aren't based by luck, only time. It's still tolerable by some. Now item drops like a +20% staff wrapping? Oh ho ho, that's going to be haunting you for the rest of your guild wars life. You can only PRAY to get it, not take action. Oh ho ho.

Simply put, it doesn't matter whether Anet was right or wrong. The fact is, their making some people happy, and their making some people angry. The difference is, who are you making happy and who are you making angry. Which side is the one with leaders of the community, which side is the one that promotes your game better then the other, and which side is the one that ultimately knows whats going on. It's your choice Anet. It'd be wise to figure out which players can influence the game more outside and inside of the game.

You'd be wise to know that a playground that sucks is going to be a empty playground. Even children will eventually figure out how to get out of the sandbox. If you can't look at this from a wider and more lengthy perspective, you failed at business.

You sir are wrong. Banning a few repeated exploit abusers can only help them drawing more customers. Allowing these abusers to roam in their servers will only promote future violations from others. Comparing all the posts/responses in this thread to open your eyes.

To everyone else, I think =HT=Ingram owns www.PirateSoft.com store.

A mistake is one thing, deliberately logging out of a cutscene to gather the same amount of XP again and again is something else entirely.

Read my whole post first. Secondly, if you think business comes into it, your dead wrong. People are leaving this game because of the grind. Now your punishing them for finding ways to get out of the grind. Genius, you officially kicked the PVP community in the nuts. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of the impact your making. You might get a few more customers who care about ethics and crap, but when they finally buy the game, they will realize why people risk their accounts just to do exploits. Then they will sympathize, and join the other side. So much for business.

The only real excuse Anet can use is if alt+f4 crashes cause their servers stress, at this point is completely legitimate. Their servers being damaged is far more important then a few people getting banned, but even then, I'd consider a temporary ban. Anet has not even stated why these exploits hurt the game, can't even provide a solid case to the community in their justified actions, and expects ones that have the balls to question them to suck it up and take the kick. If your going to be community friendly, every time you do something like this, you better give a better case. You have to tell us why you think this was worth banning, you have to tell us what impact this would've had on the game, you have to tell us much more then just some crappy sentiment like "we didnt ban THAT much". Numbers don't matter, the fact that you did ban some people was a shocker. A murderer is still a murderer regardless of numbers, but if the accused can give a REAL justification to the jury, he can be admitted. Where is your alibi Anet?

another post made by the vocal 'minority' of the game- pve is actually like 80% of the game

Stop pulling numbers out of your behind. It's sad that PVP people know more on average about PVE then PVEers.

look Xellos, I'm not pulling numbers out of my butt, Everybody plays pve. and a smaller percentage of that plays both pve and pvp, and even smaller percentage pays solely pvp. explain that. if anything you'd be pushing for pve improvements instead of trying to make pvp even more meaningless. "ooh what do I earn if I have everything unlocked by a push of a button?" nothing really. you just end up with a number of fame from winning random matches against random people based on luck and skill sets that just sits there and accumlate for ranking, which gives you a big beauiful deer head (by a emote) in size. IMHO pve is the main thing that keeps the interest in the whole thing itself. if it were just a pvp game, it would have been 200 mb in size, not nearly 1 gig when you installed. YOU said that pvp is stale yourself. you're just focusing on a addon actually. pvp weren't intended to be the main component, but pve were, how do you explain all the BWE, WPE and the E3 events that had a lot more of pve than pvp ? sure you had the option, but did it improve your enjoyment of the pve side all that much? I'm actually looking forward to exploring the new lands in the next chapter rather than looking forward to beating #1 ranked team that got that rank just by using Flavor of the Month builds, pretty soon it'll degenerate into whopever has that skill, and that skill will determine who wins. I enjoy pvping once in a while, but I don't take it seriously like some people do.

as for the exploit issue, I'm wholly in favor of Anet. if I were a dev, i would want people to enjoy the game that i made, and if somebody exploits a bug, it would create a unfair imbalance. there's already a imbalance in the game- have and have nots. the haves farmed the best farming zones before the nerf. and now those elite few is the richest in the game. and for the skill points, it's actually fair that you get 20k xp for 1 not increasing numbers. you can run underworld 4 or 5 times to get like 6 skill points. the 50k exploit is just too much as it can be beaten in under a minute. the underworld runs can take up to 2 hours apiece.

1. Yes you are, where's your proof. I want solid credible sites or scans. Got none? Shut up about it. Your entitled to your opinion, but making it sound like fact without even a whiff of proof other then what you see is beyond ignorant. I don't claim that PVP should rule the game based on guys like BlackAce and Ensign having more logic then 90% of the PVE community combined, so stop making bold statements without putting money in your mouth.

2. Because in order to play PVP, you need to play PVP. Ever see the last beta event? Lions Arch had 6 empty districts, while even Fort Ranik had about 60+

3. No one plays solely PVP because no one can afford to. Name one player whos on the top and uses the paladin template. There is none.

4. Pushing for pve improvements instead of making pvp useless...right...have you even read the grind threads?

5. Why should I earn my tools in PVP with luck? Sorry, but games aren't all about rewards. Winning and having fun on a competitive level playing field is enough for me. Sigils mean nothing to me.

6. Wolf Head. I gave up aiming for the tiger since tombs is boring now.

7. PVE keeps interest? You realize your in Guild Wars Gurus, not the VNboards right?

8. And what does storage space have to do with the game being a success?

I'm curious, are you another one of those players who hasn't even beaten the game yet? I always say that experience doesn't amount to wisdom, but it seems to be proving me wrong lately.

this thread is way too hardcore for me


EDIT: i dont even know what the exploit was

1. Yes you are, where's your proof. I want solid credible sites or scans. Got none? Shut up about it. Your entitled to your opinion, but making it sound like fact without even a whiff of proof other then what you see is beyond ignorant. I don't claim that PVP should rule the game based on guys like BlackAce and Ensign having more logic then 90% of the PVE community combined, so stop making bold statements without putting money in your mouth.
I said LIKE 80%. I were guessmating the percentage. you should read more carefully
2. Because in order to play PVP, you need to play PVP. Ever see the last beta event? Lions Arch had 6 empty districts, while even Fort Ranik had about 60+
the reason why LA were empty were because people were still playing through the first 3 to 5 missions and exploring the beginning areas. 2 days aren't enough time really to get to LA without some serious playing
3. No one plays solely PVP because no one can afford to. Name one player whos on the top and uses the paladin template. There is none.
I agree so I'm not even arguing that. ,Although the pvpers could suggest how to improve pve without asking for UAS and UAR and UAI like many of the grind posts seems to do.
4. Pushing for pve improvements instead of making pvp useless...right...have you even read the grind threads?
Most grind threads sound like they want EVERTHING handed to them on a silver platter. the fact is, you need to have SOME grind to keep you interested. if not, it'd rapidly nturn into "ooh been there done that next game!"
5. Why should I earn my tools in PVP with luck? Sorry, but games aren't all about rewards. Winning and having fun on a competitive level playing field is enough for me. Sigils mean nothing to me.
that may be you, but I've seen people bragging that they have 60+ sigils on their account
6. Wolf Head. I gave up aiming for the tiger since tombs is boring now.
interesting fact- thanks for the info!
7. PVE keeps interest? You realize your in Guild Wars Gurus, not the VNboards right?
I know where I am, and I've seen many people on my friend list quit after getting all their skills and pvped their hearts out
8. And what does storage space have to do with the game being a success?
I never said anything about storage space. check your eyes.
I'm curious, are you another one of those players who hasn't even beaten the game yet? I always say that experience doesn't amount to wisdom, but it seems to be proving me wrong lately.
In fact I beat the game with my monk. I'm currrently working on my other 3 alts. I once in while play GVG with my guild. However, pve holds my interest right now because there's so many different ways to play through the game!

lol, certain few on the boards are really into the pvp side :P

and the exploit doesn't matter now anyway.

Meh, if I had known about it I would have done it. Beats grinding griffons(not that you can anymore). And if I got banned from the game I probably wouldnt even be too upset, I've wasted way too much time grinding exp and unlocks, and too little time acutally PvPing.

(Yea i know I didn't have to but...who wants a monk with 13 in healing prayers)
**(And i'll be damned if im not gonna use my pve char to pvp untill they put the 20/20 healing prayers staff on a collector)

I have 16 in healing prayers by virtue of a sup healing prayers that I luckily unlocked and found today off a hill giant in riverside. the irony doesn't escape me.

and a perfect weapon or staff doesn't determine if your team wins anyway- played pvp when i had just 13 in healing prayers and my team won 5 matches in a row

Am I the one of the only ones that actually realize that this is a game? I mean honestly. I know this thread isn't even about grinding, but it's been brought up, one too many times I believe, and I'm just tired about people complaining of it. Myself, I enjoy 'grinding' as some say. To me, it's playing a game that I paid money for, and I actually enjoy it. I have fun as the game was intended to provide. Stop crying, sheesh.

Back on topic, I feel the same as a lot of people, in the fact that if you had to manually close out of the game in order to redo the mirror battle, then you are at fault and are abusing the system. In the first place, how did anyone learn of this exploit? People had to have intentionally tried to log out during the cutscenes or something and see if it worked, and if it didn't, I'm sure people tried and tried again until they found something that worked to abuse the system and then told their friends. Ugh...exploiters, hackers and cheaters is why I stopped playing DII online

I think ANet is doing a good job, personally.

Two types of people.

1) They cheated, they knew it (many times they did this, and the logs showed it. Hmm...

==== Player enters mission
==== battle data
==== player beats Doppleganger
==== Add 50,000 exp to account
==== play cutscene
==== Player disconnects from game: Unknown/Crash
==== Player reconnects to server
==== Player starts mission

rinse, repeat, ad-nauseum.

There is NO entrapment, there is NO wrong doing by ANet here. Yeah, someone coded the reward spot for that mission wrong. Okay, shoddy code, but you had to do SPECIFIC things to get the reward multiple times.

EULA says exploiting it is wrong. And in this case, it's closer to theft on their part. The people banned for this STOLE their EXP and thus their SKILL POINTS by using this exploit.

They ban under a few dozen accounts. Under!

Valve: http://www.google.com/search?q=valve...en-US:official
Blizzard: http://www.google.com/search?hs=F8p&...&btnG=Sea rch
EQ:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&btnG=Se arch

So for the one guy who supposedly runs a software store... got news for him.. NCSoft/A.Net aren't the only ones to ban for their dev's mistakes. Ooh, looky, a few parodies out there, but many do ban, an usually in the THOUSANDS when they do.

Valve has banned 30,000 accounts in one day. Law suits? Negative... they cheated... they have NO CASE. They can try, but finding a lawyer stupid enough to take it will be hard pressed. One story said that EQ did 700+ and for WOW, there have been thousands in one day. And that's a game that you not only pay 50 bucks to get, but then pay money each month to play... thus you're in an even more money bank type thing then you are with GW.

2 are friends of someone, who apparently can't get in their heads that you need to sign up with different emails (and with how lame his arguments are and that... I'm actually reading this as his two 'friends' more then likely being him and his best buddy/family member/whatever.)

2 ) The second type of person on this: They cheated. They violated the terms of the game. Good riddance to those who would NOT PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED/DEVELOPED.

Now it's PVP vs. PVE again: They were using a means to circumnavigate the grind!

What type of CRAP Is that? They were using it to bypass the grind? I thought the GRIND was getting through PVE to get all the Elites (yeah they cost skill points, but if you don't spend them, and get the skills for the game through the quests, then you have plenty for all the elites, right?). I thought this supposed grind was about unlocking runes for PVP use?

I'm finding one thing in common with all the whiners...

The vocal minority of them DO WANT EVERYTHING ON A SILVER PLATTER.

I want my runes/uber weapons...
I want my skills...
I want my EXP for my character...

Even though everyone else has to do it the way the game was intended.

The developers said they were making a game that had PVE and PVP aspects as ONE GAME.

Count that number again...

One... Uno... Un... Ichi... 1...

Play the game or don't.

There is only as much GRIND as you make of it. I've got two out of 3 characters I'm using for PVE asceneded now. Did my elementalist yesterday after they fixed the bug. My third character is in LA now, and I'm working with it. How much grind do I see?

None...

Because I want to play the game and learn about it. There are parts of the map I've not sceen.

On the box to GW, both the collectors edition (my wife has it) and the regular (mine)... I saw not one picture of the arenas. I saw all PVE shots. They're stunning and beautiful. Other then that... PVP is obviously an addon. Yeah, GVG with my lowly rated guild is fun, but not contstantly.

But that's my views. These others who are obviously after the ultimate PVP game... maybe you did go to the wrong game. Maybe CS and others are much more up your alley.

The Dev's designed a game that has PVP as an addon to a long PVE campaign. The screen shots on their site, their boxes, all of the promo stuff showed the stunning world for PVE they had developed. Then again the arenas are anything but stunning to show off, I'll admit that.

But I seem to think that you're all missing the point.

It's ONE (again... One... Un... Uno... Ichi... 1) game. Play it or don't. You only see grind because you don't have the game you wanted. But this is the game that the Dev's have put forth to us.

You did complain about the items... now more rares drop. Yeah, not always in the same place but EVERYWHERE!

Your solution: Play the freakin' game and go EVERYWHERE and get the drops you want/ supposedly need

You complain about the capture of skills: They changed it so that now you don't have to have any personal skill behind the mouse and just kill the boss and take their skills.

Your solution: Go get the damn skills now, by going EVERYWHERE and Playing the game as intended.

You complain about EXP being a grind, to level up your characters...Funny I've never had a problem going through the quests and missions and being either lvl 20 or 19 when going to ascend. BUT...they now changed exp rewards to double them for bosses and you have the scrolls to use to get more EXP.

Your solution: Go play the freakin' game to get the EXP. Not find some exploit using a crash to repeat ad-nauseum.

I always though Grind= repetitive game play over and over again on the same things to get your 'reward'. And yes, competitive game play of some sort has rewards, so anyone saying that they 're not doing this for some for of satisfaction or reward is LYING...

Battling your doppleganger many times, over and over, repetitive actions on your skills bar and your supposed strategy... that's Gring the skills points. They, by definition, increased their grind. Yeah, now they'd have hundreds of skills points and could buy all hteir skills. Big deal... so can I... BY PLAYING THE FREAKING GAME!

Play it or don't. But if you're not going to play it by the rules, expect to get the same punishment in every. But don't make this another PVP grind vs. PVE discussion. It's been done too much.

The game is NOT about PVP as a sole thing. Guild Wars is not just a name, or a type of playing. It's mentioned through out the book as part of the history of the game (ask in Ascalon why you can't have a guild hall from an NPC and they'll tell you they're banned after the guilds got so powerful during the Guild Wars).

It's about people playing the game, and having fun. And so far I've seen like the same 20 people posting all over the many forums about not having fun, and everyone else saying how much fun their having.

Shut up and decide if you're going to play or not, already! It's gotten very old, very quickly and is not getting anything anywhere.

In fact, the day Anet gives you 20 or so people your UAS button... is the day I'll quit. Cause then they'd have proven that they don't care about their game anymore. They only care about a vocal minority, and in the case of one Standard AI, one who's already broken the rules before and had a character deleted for it.

Botters, cheats, hackers, haxors, exploiters, scammers, or whatever... I'm glad their characters or their accounts are gone. Allows the rest of us who play the game for fun and to escape a bit to keep having that fun.

They didn't ban innocents.

And as for EULA's not being binding... funny, Microsoft has won that battle a few times. Yes it is, up to a point. Try to fight it and claim it's not all you want, you're just in denial and living in your little fantasy world still.

Game over. It's as plain as an azure sky. Those that thought they could take advantage of the game are now on the outside looking in. And we are all better off for it.

Some of you are taking this waaaaaaay too seriously. If you're bugging out so much over somethng like this maybe you should consider giving up the game. Y'all act like Guild Wars murdered your family or something.

Wow, Oni no Arashi...quite the post and I agree, whole heartedly. Especially with:

Oni No Arashi- you jsut became my favorite person on the boards!!!!

I hold the exactly same opinion as you do! you're more than welcome to contact me ingame if you want to play together to explore the map

To tell you, I met him in VnBoards, then he flamed (and got banned) at GWOnline.net's board, then he screamed about his bot got banned at the-guild-hall forum. And now I meet him here.... where's next?

Tell me a board without StandardAI. Gamefaqs?

For the records, I don't think StandardAI has EVER been an alpha tester, has he? He usually says "Me and other alpha testers", "Me and my guildmates" or something. But I don't think "he" is one of them.

it seems that every forum has some people that can't make an argument without making up facts and pretending to sound intelligent.

xellos, you need to ignore those people.

Nope, I never flamed anyone on gwonline's board nor was I banned, sorry.

Actually I've been a member here well before you have.

I've never said I'm an alpha tester, If I have you're welcome to point it out.

heh, clear to see you haven't really done posting here yet.

So, where's my answer about a board without you?

ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

So unless Anet told a player that player had to do exploit or else risk punishment, you are barking up the wrong defense tree. Exploiting an exploit is not entrapment, ignorance of the offense is not a valid defense. Try this experiment, Do 90 miles an hour by a state/local police offer and try the "I didn't know the speed limit" defense and watch the smile grow and the snide comments from the said officer flow. Better yet try doing 55 in 35 and use the same defense or in a school zone and watch the same outcome.

So maybe you should follow the advice above and look up the word entrapment then speak to a lawyer who can detail how that works legally. Next talk to lawyer about using the ignorance of the law defense.

there are many definitions for entrapment....but the thing is its not all about entrapment...cause thats a little too much to accuse ArenaNet of. They aren't trying to trick us into abusing certain parts of the game, but what do they expect?

Another question, are they even testing these patches out themselves before they release them to us? Cause if they aren't, then they are no different than any other computer gaming company...and if they are, then they better start testing them more before they release them.

I remember way back when ArenaNet was telling us they have not released this game in a while because they wanted it to be as perfect as possible.... PSHHH..... I always thought perfect meant not having an exploit in every patch that would get players banned no matter what the number banned from the game every week because they are just trying to get to the fun parts faster.

Ok ive said a lil too much about nothing, so I'll just ask ArenaNet to put their years of previous experience from Blizzard into effect, cause frankly I don't see the experience showing... as far as patches...

Well that just speaks volumes now doesn't it.

I hear you man!

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