People banned for "exploiting".
StandardAI
As in, you do something that you don't think is wrong, only to find out it was against the rules.
=HT=Ingram
I kind of agree arenanet stepped out of bounds on this one. I mean I have not ascended yet at all but I don't understand what the problem is with doing it as many times as you want... if they intend it to be a one time thing EVER then They are the ones that screwed themselves with the program they designed from scratch, not the people that played it a few times because they enjoyed the process. or whatever. personally I don't care that much, but My personal view of arenanet as a whole has gotten a little more suspicious on intentions and motivations. I don't trust them, and with this one action I am temped to Close our guild down and get rid of the game...
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StandardAI
you don't think is wrong
|
Second, I doubt they were innocent. They probably knew they were taking advantage of a bug. That is why they were not flaunting it all over the place, saying "A new way to farm XP".
You speak of these people like they were simply innocent victims, when in reality more than 95% of them knew what they were doing, they new it wasn't completely legit, and now they pay (I personally couldn't care if they were punished with something as simple as they delete the offending character; but I'm an old softie
)
=HT=Ingram
I'm sorry but paying near $50 for a game then getting completely locked out of it FOREVER is unacceptable. Its one thing to delete a character, but locking out the games key when they PURCHASED the game is also THEFT of PROPERTY. Since the software has No way to be run as a stand alone product. this is the same actions that EQ took in the beginning and made people leave EQ in droves over it. And they took the purchased software they were locked out of and made a server to use it on of their own. The Jurus Prudence of the situation was that the manufactures made a product unusable any other way, and the people that were abused by such a system left and used what they purchased to make their own system to use it on. In other words Arenanet is in the process of screwing themselves with locking out accounts of those that have supported the game by purchasing their product.
Imagine Microsoft locking out every cd-key that did not upgrade to their latest version of whatever. And only way to get that service back is to now go out and buy a new edition of the program. This is the same example, just on a more extreme view point. But I think you get the idea.
Imagine Microsoft locking out every cd-key that did not upgrade to their latest version of whatever. And only way to get that service back is to now go out and buy a new edition of the program. This is the same example, just on a more extreme view point. But I think you get the idea.
Heron Fensbanel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
If there was even the slightest question of their involvement in intentional exploitation, we left the account unbanned. In other words, only the worst abusers were banned.
|
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram
I'm sorry but paying near $50 for a game then getting completely locked out of it FOREVER is unacceptable.
|
StandardAI
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
You speak of these people like they were simply innocent victims, when in reality more than 95% of them knew what they were doing, they new it wasn't completely legit, and now they pay (I personally couldn't care if they were punished with something as simple as they delete the offending character; but I'm an old softie
) |
Balth aura:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have full gold on their accounts and their storages full of sigils.
Arid sea:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have nearly every perfect mod unlocked on their accounts.
Vengeance:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
Hypothetical question:What if the banned people in question had hacked, should they be banned? If they should, then where would the line be drawn at who deserves to be banned? And who should decide that?
|
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StandardAI
I speak of them as in.
Balth aura:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have full gold on their accounts and their storages full of sigils. Arid sea:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have nearly every perfect mod unlocked on their accounts. Vengeance:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StandardAI
Everyone knows that running hacks isn't intended
|
=HT=Ingram
ManadartheHealer , I'm not saying that I'm for hackers and cheaters, but this was a mistake all around.
NO advance announcement from anyone EVER about the problem in public.
No warning to the accounts saying that if they ascend more then once they will get their account locked out with no possibility of reversal.
In other words this is plain and simple gestapo action, with no regards for the community or for people that may or may not have even known what the hell was going on.
Anet simply locked out the accounts and now these people are going to be upset, Causing them to do MUCH worse to the system then if arenanet would have just fixed the bug, and warned those suspected of the problem and told them not to do it anymore.
IF they STILL did it after being warned, I could see such action, but not before.
Many knew it was an exploit, yes,
Many more DID NOT.
Hell I've been playing this game since February and I didn't know. I also made several detailed bug reports during beta and since going live. This just rubbed me the absolute wrong way. I thought Arenanet was a better company then this. to say the least I'm disappointed by their actions.
This could have; SHOULD HAVE been handled better.
NO advance announcement from anyone EVER about the problem in public.
No warning to the accounts saying that if they ascend more then once they will get their account locked out with no possibility of reversal.
In other words this is plain and simple gestapo action, with no regards for the community or for people that may or may not have even known what the hell was going on.
Anet simply locked out the accounts and now these people are going to be upset, Causing them to do MUCH worse to the system then if arenanet would have just fixed the bug, and warned those suspected of the problem and told them not to do it anymore.
IF they STILL did it after being warned, I could see such action, but not before.
Many knew it was an exploit, yes,
Many more DID NOT.
Hell I've been playing this game since February and I didn't know. I also made several detailed bug reports during beta and since going live. This just rubbed me the absolute wrong way. I thought Arenanet was a better company then this. to say the least I'm disappointed by their actions.
This could have; SHOULD HAVE been handled better.
StandardAI
It's like a console command in cs that would just give you aimbot, and then banning the people who use it, it's unheard of, ridiculous, and should not be allowed by any company, but arenanet does it.
Mister Pie
Well, shouldn't this sort of boil down to common sense? The new patch capped the skill point xp requirement at 20,000 exp points whereas killing your mirror netted you 50,000 points. You have to wonder, how many of these people honestly thought that it was "ok" to be gaining one skill point per one kill? It seems like it'd be obvious to most people that this'd be a rather unintended bug.
Heron Fensbanel
Uh oh, the "N-word" has made its appearance. The time for rational discussion has ended.
ManadartheHealer
Yes, it should have been handled better.
Yes, I would have handled it differently myself.
Was it ANets right to make this call? Yes. It said so in the games attatched documentation.
Will it alienate countless people? Oh, certainly
ANet just needs to decide what the right action should be. Everyone makes mistakes. Even though ANet did make a mistake, technically they would still be in the right, although I and many others would be opposed to this happening again.
I never meant to argue for it being warranted or completely the right decision. While the people, by the standard Anet set, did "deserve it" in their eyes, the community disagreed. But they disagreed by saying what Anet did was the violation, when all it was was people felt as though they had been betrayed, even though the fine print had always said otherwise. All I meant to say was that Anet had to make the call, and they did. It was not (in the view of many) the right decision, and hopefully no situation of such ambiguity will ever arise again.
Yes, I would have handled it differently myself.
Was it ANets right to make this call? Yes. It said so in the games attatched documentation.
Will it alienate countless people? Oh, certainly
ANet just needs to decide what the right action should be. Everyone makes mistakes. Even though ANet did make a mistake, technically they would still be in the right, although I and many others would be opposed to this happening again.
I never meant to argue for it being warranted or completely the right decision. While the people, by the standard Anet set, did "deserve it" in their eyes, the community disagreed. But they disagreed by saying what Anet did was the violation, when all it was was people felt as though they had been betrayed, even though the fine print had always said otherwise. All I meant to say was that Anet had to make the call, and they did. It was not (in the view of many) the right decision, and hopefully no situation of such ambiguity will ever arise again.
Sagius Truthbarron
I agree that it is extremem to just go and bann an account becuase of it, but think of games like Starwars Galaxies where people were banned for being given money that was made via exploit and without knowledge of a trade being made to them ("Tipping"). In theorie, these people knowingly did something wrong. I wouldn't call that Gestapo tactics, more like Singapore street laws in 1993.
Don't mean to be beating a dead horse...
Don't mean to be beating a dead horse...
Digital Limit
I am so tired of the whining. StandardAI has to be one of the most annoying people I have ever had to deal with on these forums. Thank god I can ignore this thread.
*moves on*
*moves on*
Lews
It was a bannable offense? Wow. I didn't know that, lol, glad I failed then! Actually, Ikilled him but got no xp, so I thought 'oh, they dont want us to do it again.' Then I told my guild and we all forgot about it. Then see this message today, and now this, wow.
psycore
Funny that AI feels so strongly about ArenaNet banning exploiters isn't it...
dansamy
Actually, it's not like someone handing you a million dollars and getting arrested for robbing a bank. It's like someone giving you a million dollars that you know wasn't "honestly earned" and getting arrested for receiving stolen property. You *know* that what you have was ill-gotten, but you accepted it anyway. Therefore, you are deserving of the repercussions tied to it.
StandardAI
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Digital Limit
I am so tired of the whining. StandardAI has to be one of the most annoying people I have ever had to deal with on these forums. Thank god I can ignore this thread.
*moves on* |
Jormund
Think of the whole bug exploiting thing as grabbing a hold of an electric fence:
You don't know if it is on or off, you grab it the first time, and you don't get zapped. The second time, even though you know you shouldn't, you grab it again anyways, not zapped. Third time, you're getting a bit ****y, and you decide to grab it with both hands; the fence is on, you get electrocuted bad.
You still going to grab a hold of that fence?
You don't know if it is on or off, you grab it the first time, and you don't get zapped. The second time, even though you know you shouldn't, you grab it again anyways, not zapped. Third time, you're getting a bit ****y, and you decide to grab it with both hands; the fence is on, you get electrocuted bad.
You still going to grab a hold of that fence?
StandardAI
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jormund
Think of the whole bug exploiting thing as grabbing a hold of an electric fence:
You don't know if it is on or off, you grab it the first time, and you don't get zapped. The second time, even though you know you shouldn't, you grab it again anyways, not zapped. Third time, you're getting a bit ****y, and you decide to grab it with both hands; the fence is on, you get electrocuted bad. You still going to grab a hold of that fence? |
dargon
AI the exploits you admit to taking part in, are not nearly as serious as the mirror one. What did you get out of them? Gold and Equipment. However, in this game, equipment doesn't make the player, the right combination of SKILLS makes the player. As a prime example of this, consider Lornars. Many many a level 20 with ascension armor has attempted the trip and gotten their ass handed to them. However, in my guild, two players took level 13's and made the trip, it took them a little over an hour. They had not been rushed by a level 20 beforehand to pick up the fabulous armor so equipment sure didn't help them. Pure determination and the right combination of skills is what did it.
Now about your exploits, maybe you should just give into that guilty conscience of yours and go on a donating spree in ascalon. I'm sure a newbie would love their very own sigil
Now about your exploits, maybe you should just give into that guilty conscience of yours and go on a donating spree in ascalon. I'm sure a newbie would love their very own sigil
Kula
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Seth Oriath
I said when you peel the shrinkwrap off the box. If you're peeling the shrinkwrap off the box before you buy it, you're in for a world of hurt by a store manager.
|
Quote:
| Acceptance of certain agreements is required |
What "agreements" are they referring to? Hmm, *thinks hard* I think I'll visit the website and read them before I buy the game. *Googles for guild wars legal* http://www.guildwars.com/legal/default.html Bang! Oh, wow that's nice. I think I'll go buy the game now! I don't know who actually goes through this but...
It's pretty common sense though: tearing off the shrinkwrap means you're going to keep the game, TOS or not, plain and simple. As disagreeable as their rules may seem, gotta learn to play by them, sorry to say.
Vermilion Okeanos
Banning is a tool of game politic and control...
It is like why you have public excution... it is so that you tell people "this is what will happen to you if you commit similiar crime!".
Now... you don't exactly go around and excute everyone who just stole a bread for breakfast now do you? Therefore, they don't go around banning people for vengeance and few other less extreme exploits... Nor did they ban ALL the player who use this ascension exploit...
We don't know who exactly got banned anyway (nor do we know what those banned players have done more than the other who didn't get ban), for all you know they might just be lying to us that some did got ban so people have more awareness that dev is willing to take extreme actions. In all circumstance... we have complete lack of knowledge and information to debate about...
That was all I had to say... arguing beyound this point is merely act of foolishness...
"Wake Up" I don't believe you should sleep any longer in the idiot hall... It is time to move on.
It is like why you have public excution... it is so that you tell people "this is what will happen to you if you commit similiar crime!".
Now... you don't exactly go around and excute everyone who just stole a bread for breakfast now do you? Therefore, they don't go around banning people for vengeance and few other less extreme exploits... Nor did they ban ALL the player who use this ascension exploit...
We don't know who exactly got banned anyway (nor do we know what those banned players have done more than the other who didn't get ban), for all you know they might just be lying to us that some did got ban so people have more awareness that dev is willing to take extreme actions. In all circumstance... we have complete lack of knowledge and information to debate about...
That was all I had to say... arguing beyound this point is merely act of foolishness...
"Wake Up" I don't believe you should sleep any longer in the idiot hall... It is time to move on.
Terminal
You exploit = you get a ban. Better that the rule is enforced sometimes rather than never.
People who exploit AND are contientious nitpickers at the same time like AI need theirs.
SOE turned out some majorly horrible games and services like SWG and EQ2. But they were swift and sterling with one thing: handing out perma-bans to any and all who exploited game mechanics and/or bugs. Not just their accounts, bt their credit cards and ip-addresses would get perma-banned. End of story. Their complete intolerance to exploiting of any kind made SWG, which doesn't hold a candle to GW, playable for a year and a half.
Hope ANet continues to hand down bans each and every time a fringe in the community decides to exploit existing game mechanics.
People who exploit AND are contientious nitpickers at the same time like AI need theirs.
SOE turned out some majorly horrible games and services like SWG and EQ2. But they were swift and sterling with one thing: handing out perma-bans to any and all who exploited game mechanics and/or bugs. Not just their accounts, bt their credit cards and ip-addresses would get perma-banned. End of story. Their complete intolerance to exploiting of any kind made SWG, which doesn't hold a candle to GW, playable for a year and a half.
Hope ANet continues to hand down bans each and every time a fringe in the community decides to exploit existing game mechanics.
Sancus
Quote:
| Actually, Standard AI was not banned |
goldfinger
I find it hard to believe that anyone can try and argue against A-net after gaile's post... It pretty much cleared up that little "accidentally stumbling onto the glitch" story regarding the mirror concept, It pretty much showed you that they were MORE than gracious regarding those who even tried it a time or two, and it shows you that they are not ban happy creeps.
Standard, you are a knob. You can't honestly believe the passive position you are taking to intentionally using this less than obvious exploit? By your logic I could try and claim innocence for anything illegal I do if the local authorities haven't made it physically impossible to do so... I mean, the opportunity to break the law simply made a law breaker out of me. Oh please, you might as well try and tell me that you can crap rainbows.
Standard, you are a knob. You can't honestly believe the passive position you are taking to intentionally using this less than obvious exploit? By your logic I could try and claim innocence for anything illegal I do if the local authorities haven't made it physically impossible to do so... I mean, the opportunity to break the law simply made a law breaker out of me. Oh please, you might as well try and tell me that you can crap rainbows.
VOD Katsumoto
What is funny is how all of the accussed and banned try to dissect the EULA from ANET. I have seen some great spin stories in here. This post is most humorous. So keep finding exploits. Keep D/Ling bots and trainers. Go waste $$ on another copy and try again. In the end, the vast majority of cheaters and hackers will lose. Its hilarious the amount of time invested in trying to find an exploit that could be well served just playing the game. Can't wait til the next round of bannings for a new post.
Bottom line. Play the game the way it was INTENDED to be played and NOTHING will ever happen to your account. No matter how you try to argue. You know your wrong.
Bottom line. Play the game the way it was INTENDED to be played and NOTHING will ever happen to your account. No matter how you try to argue. You know your wrong.
corax5
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by goldfinger
I find it hard to believe that anyone can try and argue against A-net after gaile's post... It pretty much cleared up that little "accidentally stumbling onto the glitch" story regarding the mirror concept, It pretty much showed you that they were MORE than gracious regarding those who even tried it a time or two, and it shows you that they are not ban happy creeps.
Standard, you are a knob. You can't honestly believe the passive position you are taking to intentionally using this less than obvious exploit? By your logic I could try and claim innocence for anything illegal I do if the local authorities haven't made it physically impossible to do so... I mean, the opportunity to break the law simply made a law breaker out of me. Oh please, you might as well try and tell me that you can crap rainbows. |
And Standard, I dont think a post saying "thats nice." is necesary or useful to anyone, although to be fair the post you quoted was equally usless.
Rieselle
Just be glad this isnt WoW... where attacking people from rooftops turned out to be seriously unfair. So to "fix" the problem, Blizzard instituted a new rule: "Camping on rooftops will get you banned." and moved on :P
At least ANet fixes this stuff
At least ANet fixes this stuff
bloodbob
Balth aura,Arid sea, Vengeance
How did you exploit these skills well it was pretty simple you just casted them. Really who the hell is to blame? what should players have just not used the skills at all? maybe we should require all players log in or they might accidently do something that anet didn't intend.
How did you exploit these skills well it was pretty simple you just casted them. Really who the hell is to blame? what should players have just not used the skills at all? maybe we should require all players log in or they might accidently do something that anet didn't intend.
Synncial77
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Digital Limit
I figured it'd be worth it to voice one simple piece of logic: If you sign a contract, you are bound by it.
. |
The reason why license agreements really don't mean anything is because you have to agree to it ***AFTER*** you've already bought the game. You sign the contracts BEFORE you take your new car home. You sign the contracts BEFORE you get your house. It's not like you can buy the game, open the box, run the disc, read the license agreement, and then go "Oh, I don't agree to this" and return it to where you bought it for a full refund. Now, if the companies that sold us games made us sign contracts before we could purchase our games then it would be a completely different story.
In the real world, you have to sign the contracts before you get possession of things. And by "sign" I mean "make a squiggly line on a line that say "sign here if you agree" so that if you're taken to court a lawyer can say "see!! right here. He signed and dated this which means he agreed".
----
Imagine:
You pay $1 for a can of Pepsi from a vending machine. The can that spits out has a license agreement printed on the can that says "opening this can forfeits your soul and earthly possessions to PepsiCo from this point hereafter". Would ANY court uphold that. And what could you do if you didn't agree...throw it out and lose your money?
Synncial77
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theus
Think about it for a second..
When you do a quest..do you go do it again? No.So the people who were exploiting obiviously knew they were. |
Umm, so every one who goes into the Underworld and Fissure and do those HIGH XP quest hundreds of times are exploiting Guild Wars and should be banned too?
Eos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StandardAI
I speak of them as in.
Balth aura:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have full gold on their accounts and their storages full of sigils. Arid sea:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. Because of this a lot of people have nearly every perfect mod unlocked on their accounts. Vengeance:, Me and many alpha members knew it was an exploit, and exploited it and we're not punished. |
Sorry if i seem rude but it seems a little rediculous to mention exploits that existed solely because "you and many other alpha testers" failed to report them while you were alpha/ beta testing the game.
Kaelan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Eos
Wow, with alpha testers like this I'm rather surprised the game turned out as well as it did. Guess A-Net must have picked up the slack
Sorry if i seem rude but it seems a little rediculous to mention exploits that existed solely because "you and many other alpha testers" failed to report them while you were alpha/ beta testing the game. |
Wilford
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theus
Think about it for a second..
When you do a quest..do you go do it again? No.So the people who were exploiting obiviously knew they were. |
Im just happy that a wasent banned for doing this thing not knowing this was a exploit.
Edit: Sorry but i just read about the alt-f4 thing. I tought that you just could kill your mirror over and over agine. Pressing these buttons while fighting your mirror is clearly an exploit and it was the right thing to do banning the people that used the exploit.
Amnisac
ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit) n.
To employ to the greatest possible advantage selfishly or unethically.
To employ to the greatest possible advantage selfishly or unethically.
PhineasToke
I have thououghly enjoyed the bitching in this thread and how big bad Arena Net has treated some poor souls. What it distills down to is simple; they know what you are doing at all times, and if you screw with their game world, you're busted. It's that simple. You bought a game LICENSE to play in their sandbox FOR FREE. The enjoyment of the many far outweighs the egos of a few. If you don't want to play the game straight up on an equal playing field, maybe this isn't the game for you.
Hysteria
People had to deliberately quickly exit out of game to capitalize on this one. It wasn't like you could play normally by just killing the doplanger over and over again through normal play and get the xp. No matter how people want to twist this it was a clear exploit hence the way it was accomplished.