Anyone else losing interest in the game?

San Andreas has been rather fun.

There's still a lot I want to do but occassionally I get bored with PvE.

I think that's the easy area for them to fix however so I have great hope that they will.

Someone mentioned a quest with waves of undead. That's the kind of thing that I like. There's a level 30 undead dragon that I faced a few times, that was pretty cool. Fissure and underworld have some cool fights as well.

The problem for me and a lot of PvE'rs is just the lack of content.

I personally am dying for a dungeon. I nice nasty dungeon that's long and seems impossible the first time in there. The Catacombs in Pre-sear are the perfect spot. I was so disapointed when I got to the sanitarium and didn't see a big ol' nasty dungeon.

I'd like there to be a BIG boss at the end of the dungeon, or in the throne room or something but that's another story.

Sorry Creston, I cant read all that.. theres only so much I can read and write before all the letters swirl together and give me a head ache.

My comment that you quoted... yes is a bit blunt.. but I did notice you said something about how arenanet dont want people quitting... so I will reply to that only if I may.

Of course they want to keep players.., but they dont depend on them.. er.. not at all, in fact as the next expansion could be upto 1 year away they must rely on new players only as their source of income... new players dont arrive when a game is getting bad vibes on the boards.

So why would they care that the Beta players are getting bored and going to leave? and these players are simply trolling the forums, slagging a.net off for not listening and generally having a negative effect on the game... so I still say that they dont care.. noone cares for bad apples.

You also said
"If everyone leaves long before that, it's not a good idea."

who said anything about everyone leaving???... I just cant wait till the BORED players leave..

And Yes, I do look further than my own nose because I'm a business man.. I understand how business's work.. I also know that in ANY business there are always gonig to be a percentage of Un-happy customers.. no matter what.. so I take a very BROAD point of view.

Its these percentage of un-happy customers that I want to leave... at the moment that small percentage of people are bringing the game AND A.net into dis-repute.

I suspect the rest of your post is an argument about beating bordom... But if A.net is like any other sucessfull business in the world they would weather the storm and let the bored players leave... its not for them, the game is not designed for them, and they are damaging their Rep. I say A.net should concentrate on keep their existing and happy customers.

The Snowman
(sorry for spelling errors, didnt have time to check)

Only played 122 hours and already bored of it, im upto ring of fire, and i thought id leasve it for a while a couple of weeks back and when i came on i was on for 30 mins, just lacks anythin anymore, oh and who said do u honestly think anet would want to lose games, well if they wouldnt then why get rid of farming, about 90% i reckon of the guild wars community bought this game for that sole purpose.

I totally agree. I've never played a game longer for the money. To me, this is a success. No game will satisfy forever!

However, since they are coming out with expansions, it will continue to be a fun game for a while, I think.

Yes I am getting tired. Tired of post that bitch about everything.
If your boared quit otherwise STFU.

You seem to assume here that it is a small minority of players who are bored. My perception is that it is at least a significant minority and may well eventually be a majority. If that is the case, people leaving the game will in fact hurt new game sales through word of mouth (don't bother, dude. Boring game.) and selling their game CDs and accounts cheap (already happening on ebay). I have noticed a lot fewer players during the hours I play. I have noticed a lot more people saying they are bored and unhappy. This looks like a trend to me, not like a few bored players who A-Net would be happy to get read of.

Just my two cents, and I could be wrong. I actually amnot rooting against GW and A-Net and those who love the game. I wish I WAS enjoying the game more, like you. :-)

--Nokomis

Wow! I think you hit the nail on the head. If they throw in some dungeons/catacombs/etc... here and there it would really help the game experience, IMHO.

Not all need to be a "mission" or a "quest." Some could be, but others could be just a place to explore and get some neat things, or something.

I hope ANET sees this!

Oh alright

Every game in existence gets bad vibe on its boards, and believe me, this one is not getting nearly the bad vibe that KotOR 2 had, for example. That's the nature of gaming forums. People rarely feel the need to write out that they're happy, but if they're not, they'll voice that opinion.

I guess it's the nature of the word EXPANSION pack that kinda dictated my saying that they need these players around for when they're released. I suppose it's possible that they'll release the expansion as a standalone, but would people be able to play it without the original? (What I mean is, can you play PvP against others if you don't have the first game, and so presumably don't have the six character classes and 150 skills that came with it? because I doubt they'll put those into the expansion again. There will be new characters, new skills etc.)
If so, great, call it Guild Wars 2.
If not, the influx of fresh blood may be severely limited, because of the need to have the original (ie, more money to spend) unless they do a "Buy the expansion and get the original free" kinda deal.

But even so, how many people will buy the expansion in a year that DIDN'T buy the original right now? This game appeals to a certain type of player, or a certain group of players who like the idea of they game. While that group will presumably get some new players in it over the course of a year, I doubt that in one year's time, another million players will suddenly figure out "Hey, this Guild Wars thing looks pretty good! Let's give that a try."
I hope I'm wrong for Anet's sake, but I doubt I will be.
So the continued existence of its CURRENT player base is of vital importance, imo.




Bad choice of words there perhaps, I meant ALL the bored players with everyone, not EVERY player.
And perhaps that's a small group, but can they take that risk? Do we really KNOW how many people are bored? Does Anet know? Can they afford to take that risk, to say "Oh well, the bored players are slagging us, we don't care, let 'em leave."
Because it'd be a pretty big shock to them to watch xxxx amount of players leave (I can put a number there but it's a guess anyways. I'm just saying, it's POSSIBLE that that number would be very large).
I have about 20 odd "friends" on my friends list. If I see three of them on at the same time, it's worthy of a screenshot it's so rare. During my first week, I had 8 friends on that list, and it was a rare occurence to see one of them NOT on.

Granted, that is too small a sample to make any kind of blanket statement, but it does show, imo, that a growing portion of people are just not coming back as often. It's possible that me and my friends are all of the kind that "don't understand Guild Wars", but if so, that's still a bitter pill for Anet to swallow, I think.
My 50 bucks is just 50 bucks, but 20 people is a thousand...


You don't KNOW how small the percentage is
Also, the whole disrepute thing is a bit too grandiose for my liking. In general, the boards are pretty positive. Sure, there's discussion about things, but it's not as if every thread is called "DAMMIT THIS GAME SUCKS"
And yes, I've been on boards where they are this bad. Try the official Dungeon Lords forum

Yes, but how do they KEEP their happy customers? By KEEPING THEM HAPPY. And how do they keep them HAPPY? By analizing why other people aren't. Because it's very possible that, say all the bored players leave, in a month, there's a fresh new batch of bored players. Then what? Ah, let them leave. Who cares about bored players.
And a month later, there's a new batch. And so on and so on.

It's easy to ignore disgruntled customers, but as a businessman you should know that ignoring the REASON why they're disgruntled is a very bad move.

Creston

And I am tired of posts that bitch about people who bitch about everything. Especially those who use acronyms to swear at people. So FUMF you are just a FBA-weenie who can't listen to anyone else's MFSoaB opinions without telling others to STFU. What an AH.

LOL

--Nokomis (not a truckdriver or a sailor)

I'm not sure what my total time is but I think I'm somewhere between 100 hours and 150 . I've beaten the final pve mission, i've went to fight at the tombs, underworld, and I've tried exploring to see what I missed. And right now outside of trying another character I've techinally beaten Guild wars until an expansion. Getting groups together for both pve and pvp is a major pain in the ass, the game lacks any useful
lfg feature.

Also what is the point of doing underworld, fissure, and the other one not sure the name? I know the whole celestial sigil deal with Hoh, but what makes it worth it to spend 125g for anywhere of 10 seconds of gameplay to who knows how long you can stay in there?

The game is supposed to be skill based not loot that's what An has said, so the promise of new weapons seems like a moot point to me.

I like the classes, like the enviroment, like the skills, what I don't like is outside of a few quests the game is playing the exact same way it did on my main.

Alot of people say get a big guild do pvp and be happy, well guess what
A. I really don't wanna spend all day praciting battles or playing matches over and over again.
B. Right now the whole pvp part of GW is pretty lacking to me. Where are the rewards for playing outside of a fancy guild hall?

I think that's all I can think of right now, I mean I like the idea of the game and playing it with my first character was great, now tring to do it with a 2nd or 3rd character is just boring.

I have over 300 hours, and I only have 1 real char, I have one in pre searing and one who just left pre, I have a small guild of friends, 5 members to be exact. Still don't have a guild hall, but am working hard to get it, and I do very little pvp besides that right now because I can't stand most other players. I don't have a full set of 15k armor, nor have I acquired any superior runes, I spend as much time as possible getting everything for myself, rather than buying it. That makes the game last ALOT longer.

All I can say is i'm not bored, nor will I be for a long time. If you guys are bored with the game, I'm sorry, I wish I could help you out.
Make movies, take screenshots, (I have over 100 just of scenery for my screen saver )
If that bores you, maybe you should just take a break.. I don't understand what will be accomplished by posting your bored, except your passing a few mins of time, but if I was bored of a game, I'd just pull out another one and play it for a while, not spend time letting every one else know I'm bored.
Anyway, sorry your not enjoying it as much as I am, goodluck finding something new in game, or finding another game, It's sad to see people leave an online community cause they don't find enough content to keep them around

-Reiden

I'm bored with it.

I loved it at first, have a lvl 20 warrior and monk.

There is nothing to do in it though. Nothing that serves a purpose anyways.

Basic PvP? Pointless and not really as skill oriented as they would have you believe. Any FPS or RTS requires more skill.

HoH? Why? We have a guild hall, and what good is gold in the end anyways?

GvG? Give me a break, the "fame" for being best of the best is less than that of HoH. Atleast in HoH it gets annouced to all when you win. Not some stupid ugly and poorly designed webpage hidden away somewhere..

The gameplay itself is not all that skill based as they made out. It takes more skill trying to get the retard who was assigned to call targets to actually call targets..

Then again I didn't even enjoy the PvE very much after a while. After the forge, missions seemed almost pointless except to get an elite skill. 1000 exp? lol wtf.. You made me lvl 20 when I ascended. I have 20 skill points. What do I want 1000 exp for? Why didn't they start giving out attribute points or even 2 skill points instead of 1.

But hey, I got a couple months of entertainment out of it. Well worth $50.

I think most people post while they're at work, and can't play anyways.
That's why I'm here so often during the day. I have a job that's more boring than talking about how I can see that playing a game bores people.

Creston

The game is dead.. It's a borefest unless you can stand doing same crap PvE quests over and over when making new characters. PvP is boring, because there is no real reward for it so I feel as if i'm fighting for nothing. The community maturity level is steady at about age 10-12 so it's kinda hard to make good groups unless they are all good friends, which all mine quit the game. Anyway whocares i'm gettin Battlefield2 this week so that solves my problems! W00T W00T! lol. Have fun.. erm.. well atleast try I suppose

My guild has about 25 accounts signed up to it. Only about 5 of those 25 have played within the last week.

You want to know what the fundamental problem is?

PvE players, after completing the game, want something repetitive to do that still results in 'advancement'. They want to grind money, or new equipment, or levels, or something for their character. They spend a million gold on a perfect Storm Bow because there's nothing else for them to do with their characters. Or, in simpler terms, they want something to grind, and their grind options have steadily been taken away.

On the other hand, PvP players have tons they need to grind out once they complete the game - they need to unlock more sets of skills, more weapon upgrades, and then there's the maddening superior rune grind. Of course, the good pharming spots and the ability to grind out those runes quickly have been removed, which in no way lessens the need to grind but does impact one's ability to.

In short, PvE players want something to grind, but don't have any options. PvP players want nothing to do with grind, but have a thousand hours of it staring them in the face. That's your fundamental problem.

Peace,
-CxE

Bored me 2.
PVE is absolutely boring... 30 mins to do a coop that drop nothing is quite frustrating, and farming, that was funny, got removed.

I play only pvp now, but in europe something don't work...
It's too hard to find a competitive guild with decent players, and at the tomb is impossible to find a good group to reach hoh.
U should be happy if u can go at round 2 getting 1 point of fame.
Then u will meet 4 team randomly formed and 1 guild that rape all of them easy.

I think that this game lacking of a competitive solo ladder (this means that u will paired with guys of your fame and playing against guys of your fame), like in many competitive games.
GvG ladder is not enough, coz many guild in europe are composed of 60+ members and is difficult for a little guild to get members to form a competitive pvp team.

I'm speaking for europe, coz i don't know what happen in america and in korea, but at the moment A COMPETITIVE LADDER is needed, or many players will quit the game.

Well you know, there is always Battlefield 2 coming out tomorrow :P

On a side note: Whos going to buy the 7800 GTX and FX-57 which are going to be released tomorrow?

at least its not like the really anticipated fable game where people were like this'll be the best game ever. ya, it was good but i beat it in a day. then there truely was nothing else to do. there wasn't even much difference between the good and evil.

I DONT CARE what people say about this game. it's still better than the rest, and well worth your money.

Agreed.

The game needs to unlock upgrades and runes upon completion.

And they need to do something to give PvE players a reason to play. I'm not sure what I want to do... I enjoy GvG, but my guildmates have shown no desire to unlock the skills they need to really compete... and it's only getting more and more difficult for them to do it, every passing day. I'm not sure any of them will be still playing by the end of the month.

Well, to combat boredom sometimes me and guildies go exploring. We have found some pretty random areas. There is an area a ways away from fisher mans haven that has a white water lake, and is FILLED with white mantle so many they killed off our group of lvl 20's. What ever the place is after Reed bog (near Vintaris Refuge), if you go far far back in that jungle, you can find a statue of Balthazar that will take you to fissure of Woe. My ultimate goal is to walk from Ascalon city to droknars, and then from there head as far west as I can go. I want to try to remove the fog of war from all the areas on the map as possible, on just 1 character. A guildy was telling me that even in pre-searing you can explore areas that are like still under construction, and that are so full of monsters you are not able to run past.

I believe the problem is really more simplisitic than it seems. Bring back farming and more grind to satisfy the PVE'ers. Maybe Arenanet did make the promise of no grind and no repetition, but it seems like what they have promised and the general premise of the game was NOT what the buyers were really looking for. Looking closely, every problem addressed can be fixed by adding repetition. It may not be what people would love to do, but it would give them something to chew on between expansion packs. So bring back the grind, bring some powerleveling, make some dungeons and a more immersive world, and voila! The premise of Guild wars is ruined but future sales and replay value go up.

I've said it a couple of times before, and I'll say it again. Whining about being bored is a waste of everyone's time, yourself included. Constructive posts giving ideas about how to make it more interesting are the way to go, but leave the whole 'WAHH... I'm bored' bit out of it... this (and no other game) will be the answer to your life's problems. Changes to the game are happening constantly, and it will change with the community who stays around to see it. It won't happen overnight, but it seems like some of you are demanding just that.

How long has the game been out? A month and a half or something? Give me a break whiners... some people have the attention span of a fly. Go start posting your unhelpful nonsense on the BF2 forums or whatever next big game is coming out, and leave this game and its community to the people who still like the game.

I've followed this game since October/November of 2003... longer than I've followed any other game. I've played in all the beta events and I still play hours a day. I'm not bragging or saying everyone should be this way... I'm just posting some information related to the other half so there is a little more balance around here. I enjoy the game, and I see plenty of others who do as well. If you don't, then post constructively on ways to fix the problems and leave your whining out of it.

When does BF2 come out?

What is up with GvG anyways? There is way more to HoH than there is to the "Guild Wars" in this game we call "Guild Wars"...

I don't get that at all and it was one of my biggest disappointments.

How about some 16vs16 guild fights and maybe some 32vs32 guild wars.

Guild Wars is called Guild Wars not because of gvg battles but because of the lore of the game.

Oh and I am not bored of the game btw. Just maybe a bit irked that I have to go through the storyline over and over.

I think there is a big difference between HAVING to grind and wanting to do a bit of farming.
The sad thing is, Arenanet says that people don't HAVE to grind, but then they nerf farming, which was fun for a certain group of PvEers, but they still force PvPers to grind for those skills / skillpoints.

Personally, I don't mind the occasional bit of farming to try to get some loot. Money lets me buy some dye, or dwarven ale, or perhaps even a decent axe (the one I have now has extra bleeding duration. BLEEDING! There is no bleeding axe skill....), and if that means I have to gank a few mobs of critters for a few hours, I don't really mind. The thing is, why was farming ganked for people that didn't mind, or even LIKED doing it, but at the same time, PvPers are still being cheerfully told "1 skillpoint per 20000 xp! HAHAHAHAHA"

Farming = nerfed.
Grinding = Dev endorsed.



In the end, I think it's not so much that people want repetition added, they just want to have an idea that their character is actually still progressing, and since you can reach level 20 fairly rapidly, a lot of people I think thought they would still progress with items and such. But the whole item part of the game is terribly terribly sparse.

I think farming can be fun and the hard assed stance against it doesn't really help anyone. Make it so that people CAN farm if they want to, but that they don't HAVE TO farm.
Right now, in the game, you really HAVE TO farm, you just really can't.
Or at least ,you can until Anet discovers it, and then nerfs your area and adds 700000000000000000000000000000000000 more disenchant critters...


Creston

If they add more variety to the GvG then I may pick up playing again. Improve the rating system for guild, give more detailed stats on players in the guild. Make it IN GAME on the menu for people to see the top guilds and such.

Add more modes such as defending a castle. Keep the opposing guild from reaching a certain point and/or killing the "king" in your castle within a time limit.

Add some catapults to it. They are all over in PvE, why can't we have some in GvG? Make a mode where you have to destroy the opposing guild's fort with said catapults.

How about some dwarven kegs inside eacothers base where the first one to reach said kegs can use them to open the way to a dragon to fight on their side.

These are all random ideas I just pulled out of my butt.

What do we have now? A priest/guild lord and flags. Yawn.

I think that right now, a little bit of farming can buy people what they need. But what else is there to do? Pve is pretty much dead, as we mutually can agree. Its simply a lack of advancement, as stated. Unfortunately, to most people, grind and money and "uber" equipment is a sure sign of advancement, and that seems a quick and efficient way to give people something to do until more true content is released. Lets be practical; There is NO POSSIBLE WAY Arenanet can satisfy PVEer's who play 5-6 hours a day by adding new content. So grind, farming, and expansion packs is what will hold the game together. Sorry, but playing an online rpg is going to take some comittment.

Now for PVP.

I think that pvp, as also stated, needs to be COMPLETELY accessible to anyone who has beaten pve even once. Upgrades, superior runes, all of it. Matchmaking could prove extremely useful. Its more of the PVP interface and choosing a party which has annoyed people more than the pvp itself. I strongly believe by changing the PVP interface and giving people something to chew on in between expansions, Guild Wars will be a satifying way to spend time.

Oh, sorry. Guess I'm not too bright.. Picking up a game called Guild Wars in which you have Guild and fight with other Guilds. I should have never expected it to have lots of GvG content. Silly me.

Think of new ideas, here is a post I made today actually that relates to this topic. And it has nothing to do with nerfing.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=23881

I'm starting to get bored with the game too. Ever since they started to nerf farming everywhere I've had a chip on my shoulder against anet. I'm not looking to get into the farming is right or wrong debate, it was fun, I enjoyed doing it, I enjoyed sitting in lions arch trading.

Now that all of its pretty much dead its tough to keep up with cost of items nowadays, so I've been wanting to buy a gold fellblade for weeks now but it's impossible to compete with people trying to sell them for 300-400k. Where do you expect me to come up with that? Missions....riight. Not to mention I've already invested almost 400 hours which obviously means theres not much to do.

I guess I'll just have to load up GTA:SA more often at least until they release the new explorable areas.

I switched to Guild Wars from WoW because of the poor PVP encounters in that game.

Well, with the introduction of properly-tested PVP Battlegrounds the tides have turned back in WoWs favour, IMO.

Guild Wars still reins supreme for a new gamer looking for quick PVP but if you have to time/skill to level cap characters in WoW the PVP experience is phenomenal (this has all occured in the last 2 weeks). The classes are fairly balanced (despite what n00b x might say) and they've improved combat professions (engineering, alchemy) in a number of interesting ways as well.

The quality of PVP in both games is now so close that it comes down to character uniqueness and gear selection for me, and Warcraft is clearly the winner there. Theres something satisfying for me about hearing the rustling of a nearby rogue, throwing on my stealth detection goggles and pounding him into the ground. The other big thing for me is I get a real kick out of invading or defending massive cities from a hostile faction. Epic battles (w/ hundreds of combatants) over huge cities is something really exciting that guild wars lacks.

So yes, I have become less interested in Guild Wars because if PVP isnt clearly superior to World of Warcraft, I see no point for players with gaming time to invest to be here. If you have time to spend working for your gear the end game PVP in WoW is (now, as of last week) phenomenal.

Personally, I'm not getting bored with the game at all.

Unfortunately, for some of my e-friends, the magic seems to be going out of GW for them. This really sucks for me, because really, I'm a vastly different kind of gamer from most.

I almost never buy games that I don't plan to play for at least a year continuously, where most of my old acquaintances from the Starsiege: Tribes community seem to just go with the flow of whatever new games are coming out. Hell, I played Starsiege: Tribes for almost half a decade, and I only stopped because it was interfering with my schoolwork. I woulda played Tribes: Vengeance for about that same length of time if it hadn't been for the fact that none of my e-friends were playing it.

Unlike most of America, I also love games that appeal primarily to a competitive audience, and have an unfortunate tendency to alienate those that aren't -- games like Starsiege: Tribes, the Armored Core games, and my personal favorites, the Street Fighter games. Guild Wars PvP is definitely the main draw of GW, but it is unfortunately very rough on anybody who's not in a well-organized PvP guild.

At the same time, I'm also -- much to my dismay -- a lot different from the hardcore audience that these games do appeal to. When I fall in love with a game for the merits of its competitive multiplayer, I tend to stay in love with it for a VERY long time, long after many of my old buds from Tribes say "OK, I've had my fun with this, but now I'm bored. Say, here comes another new game for me to have a three-month fling with before ditching it!"

All too often I come into these games just when their popularity starts to fade, and by the time I get in and start playing, all my buds have moved on. I really hope this doesn't happen to Guild Wars, because while it does get rather monotonous outside of organized guild-based PvP, I believe that component of PvP is so well-conceived and well-constructed that it can keep the game viable and lovable for a good, long time...assuming people give it a chance before moving on to the latest and greatest thing.

I dunno, maybe I'm just an old-fashioned, one-or-two-video-game kinda guy. I just wish the world was more like me so that I'd have more people to play with.

Great post... I agree with all of what you said. The only thing is that I actually believe the community will become much better after the whiners leave for the latest greatest game. I know that some of your friends (and mine) will be leaving in that group as well, but so be it I say. I'm here to play the game, have fun, get even better at it, and I look forward to seeing how Arenanet improves the game over the next year.

EDIT: My personal favorite older game series that I have stuck with since the beginning is Romance of the Three Kingdoms... you'd think someone would get tired of it after playing it since release 1 on Nintendo years ago .

I feel like I've gotten my money's worth. I'm not sure what people are expecting without a monthly fee. I'm really more of a PvE guy and I will defintely be back for the expansion.

Ben you are a man after my own heart. I hear ya bro. I buy maybe 1 game a year, and then that game I play until my fingers bleed. Some people are like well I beat the Fire Islands games over. For me it is becoming a true master of the game. Something people need to realize is that the game is not done yet. They already have added 2 new zones like Maguuma Stade, and the game is only 2 months old? How many of you have been to the area Tears of the Fallen? Or even heard of it?

I play thru game after game on consoles like PS2. Those game don't have much depth to them, PC gaming is like fine wine. PS2 is like a box of wine. The 1 console game I really got hooked on was FF10 though.

See I day dream about GW, I am trying to concot a new PvP build that will rival the current Spike, Spirit Spammers. In order to do this you have to have intimate knowledge of skills and what they do. Just reading a skill description doesn't give you all you need to know. You have to know the cast time, and after cast, and its effectiveness against a non-monster.

If you need someone to game with Ben let me know, I play everyday from about 5pm-12am EST, and pretty much every waking hour on the weekends.

Okay this is odd. I have noticed three different people today saying they are turning to GTA: San Andreas because they have gotten tired of GW. And I did the same thing. I hadn't played GTA:SA for a long time but I really wanted to play it after GW started to get old. Is there something in GTA:SA that is completely lacking in GW? What is it? Good NPCs? Character customization? Interesting missions? Helicopters? LOL. Or is this all just a coincidence?

Also, when I was playing GTA:SA yesterday I wondered why nobody has made a medieval fantasy type RPG in the GTA style. That game engine would be really nice in a more typical fantasy RPG game.

--Nokomis

Pvp is fun, pve is boring after you doing it once and awful after 3 runs through. I too bought GW to last but it definitely won't, at least the pvp community won't, until major attention is brought to that area and not to fail to save the stagnant pve game. Sigh, if only they could've realized the potential that the betas had. Every lasting game that I've played, Starcraft for 6 years, Tribes 1/2 for quite a few, had great gameplay and a central community. This game's pvp community is just getting alienated and that is the biggest recipe for future failure.

Rockstar North built the engine from the ground up...and refuses to sell it or allow proprietary use to any other developers.