PvP--/cry

So I play this game for a good long time, many hours, many characters. Currently I have 3 characters who have beaten the game, and I who is almost to Droks. I have also spent alot of time trying to unlock junk..you get the picture.

So, I turn to PvP, excited that I am well prepared. After about one night of 'pvp fun' I simply lost interest. This game is sposta be geared toward pvp?

I supose I should have said that I love pvp, Im a huge pvp fan and I have pvp'd in every game that I could (and owned) for the past 10 years. Heck, I started playing pvp muds before most GW players were born!

Anyhow, back to GW pvp...its weak. I said it, but since you dont know where I live, Ill say it again, GW pvp is weak. Rant all you want about strategy, I will agree with you, there is alot of strategy. What is lacking is options imo. Sure there are alot of skills, tons, but one damage spell is almost the same as the next, one attack much like another.

I really enjoy this game, its a good buy for the amount of entertainment, but as for pvp, bleh.

I played a few matches with template/untouched PvP chars. I haven't unlocked all the skills yet, but I did add on a few upgrades (such as my Paladin W/Mo's sword was a Barbed PvP Sword of Fortitude) but that shouldn't give me too much of an advantage.

Even though I played many people who undoubtedly had unlocked everything, I won a few matches, and they were all fun. Just goes to show that people's tastes differ. I'm going to go back to farming and unlocking everything, and maybe some Guild action before I go into serious PvPing.

Huh... I dont think that is true, and I am curious as to which class you played as. I would say the options are huge and there are alot of great different builds I can set up.

May I ask where exactly did you spen your one night of 'pvp fun'? Random arena?

[QUOTE=Aaaaagh]but one damage spell is almost the same as the next, one attack much like another.QUOTE]

verry true, thats why i allmost never pvp'd.

Excellent. I always love the 'if you don't like it you're probably just crap at it!' crowd. God forbid some people have differing opinions about something!

I don't like PvP either. It's even more repetitive than PvE; at least in PvE you can take your time, explore, admire your surroundings and the quests sometimes involve more than random slaughter for no reason. And I've played it in lots of places, with various classes.

I agree. I used to PvP only when I got bored of PvE, because it gave me something else that was fun to do. But PvP got stale quite quickly for me. The only thing I fid fun about it anymore is to see creative ways people use their templates, like the Undead Horde masters who sacrifice their own team, that was clever. But otherwise, it does feel like a one-hit wonder to me.

Even going into UW, FoW is getting rather old. It's just more of the same. Sure, there are 100's of different skills, but they all do pretty much the same thing.


A free web-based wargame that you can play from anywhere!

Everybody who hates the game in one way or another, just stop complaining. This forum is just loaded with people complaining.

Agreed...good God people, just because you don't like something do you need to tell the entire world (forum)? Who gives a shit? Unless it's constructive it's whining.

[QUOTE=BaleFire]If you had PvP'ed more than 'almost never', or just looked at the complete class skills lists, you would have realized that the variation of damage skills and spells is immense. If you had to think of something you want to have added so it will not 'all be the same', I could pretty much guarantee you it is already there.

Ways damage skills / spells differ in:

-Area skills, single target skills, chain area skills
-Instant effects, enchantments, hexes, conditions, damage over time (dots)
-long recast timers vs short or no recast timers, aka 'spammable' skills
-damage spells that include exhaustion, knockdown, slowdown or armor penetration
-Instant cast time vs long cast time (easy to get interrupted)

And much more. The list goes on.

Just take solace in the fact that you paid $50 for a game that you seemed to really enjoy for many many hours. Most games typically never stay interesting this long. So even if you don't play PvP I'd say you got your money's worth.

Well, tell us about a game that does it better.

What do you think would make it better.

I've faced pure teams that focus Poison, Warriors, Spikers, Trappers, Monks, AE, Spirit spammers and Necro pet fiends.

Every one of those is different than the others and that's just pure styles. There's an almost endless number of hybrid builds.

With six teams facing eachother you have to be ready to defend against it all and bring your offense to bear in the best way.

Tell us how you'd do it? Maybe you're looking for WoW where the battles are bigger and more open. I'll tell you as fun and amazing as that looks the lag with a good connection is a problem. On top of that how many uneven and frustrating battles do you need to go through to get to a good one.

PvP is a freakin joke....if I need 300 or 400 exp for my next level i'll go into the arena and sit there until my team wins. GW PvP is absolutely the least fun I've ever had sitting at my computer(and that includes times I've sat there and staired at the screen attempting to think of something to do)....it's not the least bit entertaining(and I LOVE PvP...outside of Guild Wars PvP games are all I play). I can't for the life of me figure out why so many people are in love with GW PvP........

What would you have different Algren?

You call it a joke but tell us how you'd fix it.

The HoH matches I've been in have almost always been amazing even when we lose. Even the 4v4 matches are great. Is it just because you lose or are you so good that you never lose and HoH is just a boring waste of time because your storage is filled with sigils.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I like PvE but just saying it's the worst isn't really telling us anything. It sounds from the negative posts that it's the worst because you haven't gotten into it at all and don't know what you're talking about.

If you do know what your'e talking about back it up with some specifics.

I would guess that it's just my personal opinion. I don't play PvP because in my opinon "Point........Click.......Choose some skills........Wait for them to die" is a complete waste of time...and honestly shouldn't be considered PvP. I played PvP again last night....because I give it another shot every once in a while when I have nothing to do. Needless to say my team was awful. No planning...no strategizing...we never spoke to eachother. At the beginning of every match everyone would run off in different directions. We won 7 consecutive matches before I left.(Lions Arch).

Mind you I'm a level 17(JUST got to 17...haven't used the attribute points I've gotten for that level yet)....everyone else was level 20. I literally just clicked Ignite Arrows and sat 20 feet away from everyone and fired arrows into the crowd until everyone was dead...then thought "wow..that was a great freakin time"

PvP = Counter Strike
PvE = Guild Wars

Are you trying to make a funny? There are countless games where player vs. player is more involved and skill based than GW.

People expected this game to be skill based fantasy PvP guild wars. None of that is here except the fantasy part. The guild wars are 8vs8 which is sad, and if you think this type of game play requires real skill you are sadly mistaken.

Well give us one and why you think it's better Spyle.

So far we haven't had anyone from HoH say that it's single dimensional. I've posted 8 different kinds of damage and haven't even touched on defenses to show why I think this is a good game. Show us a complex and rewarding game that makes GW PvP so boring.

Indeed. Some people sign up for GuildWars and seem to think, "This game will be eternally fun and I will never need to play anything else ever again!" And while this might be true for a very small number of people who LOVE PvP, compare this to MOST RPGs. You play through the story once, and that's probably it. If it's an amazing game, maybe you'll play through a second time.

If you play through all of the PvE content, even if you kind of rushed (but didn't skip any), it will still take many, many hours. You'll get your money's worth.

Guild Wars has accomplished a RARE thing.

They have actually worsened the game in the transition between Beta and Release.

I and many others loved the game, and the PvP in the betas. It has gotten much worse. As has PvEing, because one can no longer use skill rings and charms to get what they need early. And although many complained about SoC it was not fixed.

Interesting huh? Most games get better after betas and into release. Things seem to iron out. It's not as evident here.

EDIT: First time through PvE missions is INSANELY FUN. The teamwork evident in beginning and ending missions is great, and it makes you happy to complete a tough mission such as Thunderhead Keep or the marathon that is Hell's Precipice. However, there is not much to gain from doing these. I would love it if some bonus or great reward were given upon beating the missions. It would make me feel better for spending that time.

[QUOTE=Spyle]Are you trying to make a funny? There are countless games where player vs. player is more involved and skill based than GW.
QUOTE]

instead of simply saying trust me they exist how about a list of them and support for your opinion.

also how many of them are *twitch* games ?

I've played counter strike for 5 years.....I'll finish my R/W and probably even finish my N/Me...then I'll never play again. I probably won't even be inspired to buy the expansion...and to be completely truthful this is game was probably the second most fun I've had(outside of FF7) playing an RPG.

I will however go back to playing counter strike....because PvP WORKS with counter strike.

You know it seems to me that the only real type of skill required in this game is picking the right skills for your skill set. Like a game of MTG.

So you want me to pick a game and tell you why I think it's better? That all depends on what sort of limits you put on it.. If it's simply player vs. player, then any fps or possibly even rts requires more skill than GW does.

If it's PvE then any MMORPG out there is better, why? They lasted more than 2 months with tons of content left to go.

If you want it to include PvP, PvE and be fantasy based, then to me it seems GW is the best, unfortunatly for us. Though many would argue WoW is better, I personally didn't like that game though.

By *twitch* games I assume you mean ones that require good eye-hand coordination? That's not a skill? =p

It's more of luck, usually.

I dunno d00d, the PvE in CS was aw3s0m3!!!1

Seems to me you're just upset that GW doesn't use a twitch-controlled first person POV.

PvP works just fine in GW. It works similar to every other RPG PvP system. In short, concepts like 'cover' are non-existant, and are replaced by a much wider variety of skills/abilities.

RPG PvP generally has much less range in movement, but much greater range in options. GW fits that role. Most FPS games have huge range of movement, but not a whole lot of options. CS fits that role.

Neither is objectively right. Neither is objectively better than the other. It's just 2 different styles of the same thing.

We could sit here and argue about how Golf is or is not a better sport than Football or Basketball, too. It doesn't change the fact that both are sports, both are competitive, and they both are fun to their players.

You honestly believe that there's no skill in knowing when to use (play) the skills (cards) you've got?

GW is intended to be a slower paced game than CS. If you don't like the pace of the game, fine. But don't ignorantly claim it requires no skill because it's more intellectual than CS.

i never denied or even suggested that hand eye reflex coordination was not a skill

i only asked you how many of the games you consider top pvp games required you to have that particular skill.

which would explain possibly why you think the GW pvp is inferior to them

no insult was intended but simply asking for information

Yes, when I happen to be behind 3 enemies with, say, an M4(whatever its named now) and I kill all 3 while they're not looking, thats SKILL BABY!

Or when I manage to kill people by hiding behind boxes with a shotgun in Office - skill

or when I live with 2 HP after killing 3 guys out of the luck that the game has a HORRIBLE damage reading system... SKILL

I've been playing since the old beta - don't ever act like I don't know anything about CS

Those that don't like PvP are those without active guilds.

It's not fun because they don't win :-p

I've got nothing against Counterstrike or FPS but they're a different game style. It's much less complex than this. I've played Counterstrike, Ghost Recon, Rainbow 6 and others. I loved them while I played them.

I came to GW because I was looking for a deeper strategic game and I think I found it. Point and click games are great and I'm pretty good at them but that is not this.

If you loved Counterstrike then I'm glad for you, I go play twitch games myself from time to time.

Selecting the proper skills for your build does not even touch the complexity of HoH or GvG. If it did then we'd never have dominant teams or the builds of the week.

I'll get off my high horse after I say that I totally agree with the PvP'rs that they should have UAS/UAR. I don't see how that would ruin the game.

We don't know for sure that they won't return it in one form or another. If it was me I'd like to see an open HoH with UAS/UAR and a RP only HoH that allows players to play the character they developed.

I think to have an UAS or UAR you should have to achieve a certain rank, at least. I don't want anyone to have ether prodigy who hasn't earned it by running Ring of Fire a million times just so the boss will actually spawn...

I feel like slapping you for this one. give me the exact same deck of mtg cards as my newbie opponent, and watch us play 10 games. i'm pretty sure i should win 7.
playing mtg is more then picking 'the right skills'. its how to play them.

wow...come play CS with us...we'd love to spank up on your for a few hours. You won't get a single kill.

you all speak so highly of "Strategy" and "Team Play" and "Working Together"..."It makes guild wars PvP the best around"....all of those elements are in Counter Strike...Everyone starts with the same weapons/armors/extras (one of your biggest complaints as PvPers). UAS/UAR is already available for Counter Strike.....Everything you all want in a PvP is available in counter strike...except you can't cast level 10 firedeath on your opponent...WOW that sucks....Counter Strike works as a PvP because it puts everyone on the same level playing field...ONLY skill is involved in Counter Strike....NOTHING ELSE is even involved.....

If you run up on 3 people and shoot them in the back you have more skill than they do....obviously they are awful or have their sound off. The same thing COULD happen in guild wars...you COULD attack someone and they already be attacking someone else....therefore making it impossible for them to attack you(the same essential idea of running up behind someone).

Fact Remains....everything you all want in a PvP game is available in Counter Strike...and Counter Strike works as a PvP....Guild Wars won't be around 7 years from now...Funny thing, Counter Strike probably will be.

Double post content:

what is Guild Wars if it isn't a 'Point and Click' game....you don't even have to move your character...you point and click on someone and the character moves. Guild Wars is the very essence of 'Point and Click' games.

Counter Strike has nothing in a PvP game that I want. I have no desire to match my mouse spinning and clicking skills against you, or anyone else.

Counter Strike has a very limited variety of weapons and weapon types.

Counter Strike has essentially 0 weapon interaction. The weapons all do essentially the same thing. Some have faster ROF with lower damage, and vice versa... but where's the DoT? Where's the debuffs? Where's the buffs? There are none.

Counter Strike has very little team dynamics. Sure, there's a few different "templates" in some mapsets, but that's not much. What you claim is so great about CS is what makes it boring to me. Everyone is the same. Exactly. There is no personality. No character development. I don't want to play as Clone34134234.

IMO, the best PvP game was Magestorm. That had a pretty good variety of skills to use intelligently, as well as the FPS component of aim and cover and terrain.

CS is strictly about aiming and using terrain. GW is strictly about selecting skills and knowing when to use them. Two sides of the same PvP coin.

Well, if you did nothing but click ignite arrows and wait for a divine enlightenment to show you how PvP is supposed to be played, I'm not surprised you were bored. I also found it funny that you complain about the team not strategizing, but what did you do? You created your perceived problem yourself. Self-fulfilling prophecy, congratulations, you proved yourself right by basically doing what you criticized as the problem.

How to approach GW PvP in 5 easy steps:

-Dont be the person who sits, spams one skill over and over and waits for others to win the match for them. That works in FPS shooters, but not here.

-Take the effort to read up on your skills, pick a theme for your build (such as anti-caster interruption ranger), then pick some skills that are likely to work well together. If they dont work out, replace them. In this way, you continually improve your build, and learn to use your skills. If you dont use EVERY skill on your bar, replace them. Warning: This requires more complex thought processes than hitting the 'fire' button of your weapon over and over.

-Realize that you dont know everything, even if you might think so, and that other people are simply better than you because they know GW matches are about more than hitting a fire button as quickly as possible.

-Look for some quality players to discuss strategy with. It would help if you have a clue about strategy to begin with, see the previous point above. Because if you are an obviously inexperienced smartass, the good people will want to not play with you.

-Learn about voicechat coordination and target choice / target calling, different victory conditions on different maps, the common theme builds and how they work (cause you will need to figure out how to beat them), common skill combos, interrupts, enchantments, wards, and a lot of other things you might never have heard about that make or break your success in PvP.

And if you dont feel like getting into all of this strategic depth, you're probably better off in CS, where you move to a spot and click your ignite arrows (pardon, shoot your weapon) over and over again.

<3 magestorm...I miss that game so much dude.

Team Dynamics in CS is far more important than Team Dynamics in GW...Like I said the team I was on won 7 or 8 straight at Lions Arch without ever talking to eachother. We all just ran out and started attacking....if my Counter Strike team were to run out and start attacking we'd never win a match.

Isn't it funny how when you talk down about a game, suddenly people think you're not good at it?

Yes, I'm a total CS n00b because I said it doesn't involve much skill... omg the autosniper pwns

that's all I had to do to win....why would I go above what I have to do to win. There was no need for me to do anything but click ignite arrows and Duel Shot/Power Shot until everyone was dead....THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

Uhh.... NEVER talk about PvP in this game in terms of Arena fighting. The only reason to ever use Arena is to test new PvP builds by yourself. Go play HoH and see how well "random running and attacking" works

Come play...it doesn't take much skill to play in pubs...I agree with you on that. But that's because 90% of the people playing in Pubs haven't played in leagues....so ofcourse you have a leg up on them. Playing CAL-I and CAL-P Counter Strike takes an amazing amount of team work and skill...denying that is completely ignorant.