In GW PvP, you need all 8 people in the team to do their jobs. If one person fails at doing their job, then the team loses.
This is also true in PvE. Try to go to the underworld. If one person screws up there, then it'll be a quick trip for the whole team.
PvP--/cry
hydrak
OneArmedScissor
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Originally Posted by JoDiamonds
Lots of people don't like chess just because they don't like chess. It doesn't have to be because you are bad at it, or anything else. That's a foolish elitist attitude.
Chess IS kind of boring, and I played tournament chess for years. People who don't understand that not liking something is ok shouldn't bash people who don't like it.  |
Chess is by no means boring if you understand what's going on.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Spyle
Oh and GW is not turn-based.. Anyone who says that obviously have never played a real turn-based game.
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JoDiamonds
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
when did I say I was leaving GW to play CS? I play both regularly...I cant pub in cs for more than 5 minutes before I'm banned from the server for hacking...so I only play scrims/matches...when I'm not playing CS I play PvE Guild Wars.....whether I'm playing "real" PvP or "fake lions arch PvP" doesn't change the fact that having 0 control over your characters ability to move/dodge without clicking a skill that gives you "75% better chance to dodge" is not my idea of a fun PvP environment.
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The decisions in Guildwars are made at a slower pace, but are not easier because of that.
Also, you can hide behind a tree to stop that Ranger from shooting you. And you can do body blocking, so there is some of that phsyical movement skill involved. That's obviously not the focus, though, and not nearly as important as it is in CounterStrike.
For everyone else who is trying to convince Algren that he's wrong in thinking that PvP isn't fun, leave the poor guy alone. I'm not about to try and persuade someone to start playing more chess because they don't like it. (And since he already said he's going to try more serious PvP, lay off that angle too.)
I'll still argue if anyone says there's no skill in Guild Wars PvP, though. But I don't think anyone is saying that anymore.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
I am an elitist, so I must appologize.
Chess is by no means boring if you understand what's going on. |
so anything one doesn't find exciting must be because they don't understand it....
OneArmedScissor
Again, if you can't take the heat in the kitchen, get out!
OneArmedScissor
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
so anything one doesn't find exciting must be because they don't understand it....
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Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
Did I say that? No.
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| Chess is by no means boring if you understand what's going on. |
OneArmedScissor
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
actually you did.
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I, for one, try not to consider things boring until i have a better understanding.
hydrak
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Originally Posted by LoL
OneArmedScissor: I am an elitist, so I must appologize. Chess is by no means boring if you understand what's going on.
Algren Cole: so anything one doesn't find exciting must be because they don't understand it.... OneArmedScissor: Did I say that? No. Algren Cole: actually you did. |
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
I was implying that people who have no idea what's going on in the game should not think it's boring for the simple fact that they do not understand what's going on. Once they have an understanding, then they should make a judgement.
I, for one, try not to consider things boring until i have a better understanding. |
and you assumed that anyone that dislikes chess doesn't know what's going on...there couldn't possibly be another reason they dislike it.
kaizermach
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Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
I am an elitist, so I must appologize.
Chess is by no means boring if you understand what's going on. |
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by kaizermach
I think he is talking about personal taste. I understand baseball yet I find it boring. This doesn't bash the sport of baseball, it's just not my taste. Saying you will like chess if you understand it does seem a little arrogant.
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lol...I had that in mind.
I freaking love baseball...being from boston it's a HUGE part of our lives. I can't imagine anyone NOT LIKING baseball...but I do realize that to alot of people baseball doesn't matter....and it's not because they don't understand it...it's because they simply don't like it.
Yamat
I play GW, and I play CS... I think the "skill" element of PvP GW is minimal in comparison to a game like CS, for one reason being that you can't go and read a web site on CS and suddenly be a superb PvP player, whereas you can with GW.
CS skill is acquired over time, GW can be learned.
CS skill is acquired over time, GW can be learned.
Moskel
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
wow...come play CS with us...we'd love to spank up on your for a few hours. You won't get a single kill.
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P.S. Golf is a sport, it requires skill sort of like GW, you need some timing and a lot of mental planning for your situation to give yourself the best chance to succeed. If there is no skill in golf..well last weekend you could have made yourself an easy $1.1 million since anyone can do what the professional golfers do right?
Loviatar
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
lol...I had that in mind.
I freaking love baseball...being from boston it's a HUGE part of our lives. I can't imagine anyone NOT LIKING baseball...but I do realize that to alot of people baseball doesn't matter....and it's not because they don't understand it...it's because they simply don't like it. |
they got almost the full cake and most of the icing whan the owners caved in
i did not watch the pathetic *mini season* they had and said if they go on strike again for the last few crumbs when they were already going to be rich i would never watch the mercenary bast***** again
first thing they do for the next season is strike again and my love for the home town mercenaries went poof and i have never watched or listened to a game since
Spyle
Yuck I hate baseball, that game takes no skill. Hitting a ball with a bat, give me a break..
lol
lol
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Moskel
What Algren is saying is "In CS I have all of the textures made invisible with a hack, I have an auto-targetting hack, and I can sit and watch as my character runs himself around the map and kills you for hours on end. In GW I can't do this and thus it doesn't require as much 'skill' because 'skill' to me is having the better hacks."
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Quote:
| P.S. Golf is a sport, it requires skill sort of like GW, you need some timing and a lot of mental planning for your situation to give yourself the best chance to succeed. If there is no skill in golf..well last weekend you could have made yourself an easy $1.1 million since anyone can do what the professional golfers do right? |
Sport - An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
where is the physical exertion in golf? Figure skating is more of a sport than golf is...and that is NOT me saying golf doesn't take skill.
hydrak
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Originally Posted by Moskel
What Algren is saying is "In CS I have all of the textures made invisible with a hack, I have an auto-targetting hack, and I can sit and watch as my character runs himself around the map and kills you for hours on end. In GW I can't do this and thus it doesn't require as much 'skill' because 'skill' to me is having the better hacks."
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Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
i was a loyal dodger fan since the days of watching the tubes in the radio glow (yes that long) until they trashed almost the full season with their strike
they got almost the full cake and most of the icing whan the owners caved in i did not watch the pathetic *mini season* they had and said if they go on strike again for the last few crumbs when they were already going to be rich i would never watch the mercenary bast***** again first thing they do for the next season is strike again and my love for the home town mercenaries went poof and i have never watched or listened to a game since |
I watched my beloved red sox lose year in and year out for almost 18 years...which is NOTHING compared to the people that watched for 60+....
Tuna
If you play GUILD Wars PvP in random 4v4 arenas you can't expect much. If you want coordination and planing etc. you have to *gasp* join a guild! Random 4v4 is sort of akin to a pub iceworld in CS.
Moskel
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
when did I say I was leaving GW to play CS? I play both regularly...I cant pub in cs for more than 5 minutes before I'm banned from the server for hacking...so I only play scrims/matches...when I'm not playing CS I play PvE Guild Wars.....whether I'm playing "real" PvP or "fake lions arch PvP" doesn't change the fact that having 0 control over your characters ability to move/dodge without clicking a skill that gives you "75% better chance to dodge" is not my idea of a fun PvP environment.
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You can use terrain to completely negate anyone that requires LOS from being able to attack you while countering with spells of your own that don't require it.
As far as this being "turn based" as you posted on this thread also. You either have no understanding of what "turn based" means or choose to ignore what you know...in a "turn based" game you have a predetermined or potentially infinite amount of time to make a decision on your "turn" while the other player CAN NOT DO ANYTHING.
Picture this in GW --Elementalist on Team 1 casts Lightning Orb, it is now the turn for Monk on Team 2, Monk on Team 2 casts heal other on the target of the Lightning Orb, it is now the turn of Warrior on Team 1, Warrior on Team 1 is AFK, battle pauses for 5 minutes while he comes back and decides where to use his "movement points". That is "turn based", GW is very much a real-time game. Yes you can 'only fire your X every 1.75 seconds, in a turn based world you wouldn't have a time associated with an action, you'd have a number of TURNS. Seconds are not a measure of turns since they happen in parallel for all of the players on the field of battle, turns happen in serial.
JoDiamonds
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Originally Posted by Yamat
I play GW, and I play CS... I think the "skill" element of PvP GW is minimal in comparison to a game like CS, for one reason being that you can't go and read a web site on CS and suddenly be a superb PvP player, whereas you can with GW.
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Reading will not make you superb in either game. Reading can make you better in either game. There is no difference there.
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Read more about the game: You will improve, up to a certain amount.
Play live PvP vs. other players and your skill will improve, up to a certain amount.
These are both true for CS and GWs.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by hydrak
Yea. This is true for most online games. More skills = more and better hacks.
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Guild Wars will eventually be included in that statement....it's inevitable
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Moskel
This shows how little you know or understand about GW, you can dodge in GW, any spell based projectiles, wand damage, and arrows. You can certainly move your character out of location based AoE spells like Firestorm or Meteor Shower, just because it was cast doesn't mean you have to stand around in it.
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maybe we're playing a different game...but when ranger scouts shoot arrows me...whether or not I move those arrows hit...I can't 'dodge' in GW...and neither can you. You can move out of the meteor shower yes, but you can't dodge an attack. AND if by chance I do happen to move out of the way of an attack...I still have to stop, lock onto a target, and then attack...making dodging attacks almost useless.
hydrak
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
when did I say I was leaving GW to play CS? I play both regularly...I cant pub in cs for more than 5 minutes before I'm banned from the server for hacking...
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
Guild Wars will eventually be included in that statement....it's inevitable
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Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by hydrak
Will you find Guild Wars more exciting when this time comes?
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being banned for hacking in CS doesn't mean you hack....it generally means you're better than the admins.
and no...if I wanted to hack in Guild Wars I would be hacking by now.
Yamat
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Originally Posted by JoDiamonds
Uhhh.... what's the difference here? Acquiring a skill over time is learning.
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You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player. You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great.
Mr_Intangible
Counter Strike shouldnt even be COMPARED with Guild Wars by the simple fact that Counter Strike is a SHOOTER and Guild Wars is a MMO! Just because there PC games doesnt meen there the same thing.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Mr_Intangible
Counter Strike shouldnt even be COMPARED with Guild Wars by the simple fact that Counter Strike is a SHOOTER and Guild Wars is a MMO! Just because there PC games doesnt meen there the same thing.
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they're being compared because they are both PvP...
hydrak
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
being banned for hacking in CS doesn't mean you hack....it generally means you're better than the admins.
and no...if I wanted to hack in Guild Wars I would be hacking by now. |
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by hydrak
If you wanted and tried to hack in guild wars, you would be banned by now. The devs wanted you to hack in guild wars, more ppl banned and more account keys sold as a result.
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hydrak
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Originally Posted by Yamat
You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player. You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great.
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Mr_Intangible
Oo...all this hacking...its like ninja/metal gear solid...stealthy...wooo!!! But to be honest hacking is horrible and malignant towards the MMO community!
hydrak
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
how would the devs even know? most hacks are client side....adn therefore the server has difficulty establishing between which packets being sent back are legit and which packets have been altered or 'spoofed'....
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Santosh
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
knowing when to click a skill....is not skill itself. I GET the picture...I just think it's stupid. Standing there and hoping i have enough health to outlast the person I am attacking without any real means of dodging or evading is asinine and should not be incorporated into a PvP game. IT IS a mindless click...it's pretty easy to tell what skills to use and when to use them...it doesn't take much thought.
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Skill can be based on physical skill or mental skill or a combination of both. However you look at it, dissect it, turn it upside down, it is a skill.
What is the difference in the "mindless click" you refer to, or knowing what skills to use and when as opposed to the stuff you do at CS? I've played CS. You say it doesn't take much thought, therefore it's not a skill? Well, if you take your time in CS to think, you're dead. CS is based on quick thinking and following it through with action. Same goes with GW PvP.
JoDiamonds
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Originally Posted by Yamat
Sorry, I should have said "taught" instead of "learned".
You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player. ... |
You can teach someone to be a better CS player, like you can do for GWs players. It varies some, sure; having someone teach you CS skills might not get you as far as teaching someone GWs skills. However, you really won't do very well in either game without a lot of practice. It's easy to say "Anyone can just read about GWs and be really good at it", but I strongly doubt that's true. I think someone who has never played GuildWars is going to be pretty awful if they just read about it.
(One tricky bit in this discussion in particular is that playing PvE does count partially towards learning to play PvP. That's sort of true for CS too, in that playing single player definitely helps train you for PvP, if you've never played it before. In neither case will single player experiences help a lot for being good in PvP, but it's a huge step up over never having played at all.)
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... You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great. |
In pretty much all games, there is some amount of natural talent (whether it be hand-eye coordination or a brilliant military mind or whatever). And in most games, you can get better by someone instructing you, and by practicing.
hydrak
Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by hydrak
Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.
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do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation or are you only good for unfounded accusations?
the number of hackers in league play (PAST CAL-O)...is so small it's not even relevant.
Bu7ch
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Originally Posted by hydrak
Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.
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Edited: pub servers is what I'm referring to