Rebalance for the PVE side of Guild Wars

Anet please read.

Once the PVP update goes out for their unlocking problems can you take a good hard look at the mess the PVE side has been left with since the Rune trader was introduced for them.

As in many posts regarding the Rune Trader I have now come to the conclusion that finding a Gold Salvage Item isnt worth the time looking for them.

I am now using a normal salvage kit's on a gold salvage item because the possibility of getting 2 steele ingots will be worth more than a Superior tatics rune that will sell for 195 gold if im lucky.

There is only a market for 2 runes Vigor and Absorbs the rest isnt worth the parchment they are written on

In my opinion Runes should have a base Price

Minors 200-500 Depending on market and type
Majors 1000-2000 Depending on market and type
Superiors 3000-5000 Depending on market and type

So at least I know the hours put in looking for a gold drop will be at least 3k for the effort not 200g.

All the talk about the economy is it really going to make a difference to the so called Guild Wars economy. IMO That was killed off along time ago

How the hell am I supposed to save for 75k armour or the Fissure Obsidian Shard armour if I can't sell runes to the trader for a decent price.

Whats everyone elses CONSTRUCTIVE thourghts on this issue

I agree with the base price scheme for runes when selling them back. I personally don't mind farming at all, but knowing that even if I find a purple or gold drop, and do secure a rune, I'm more inclined to just get the iron or steel for armor later in the game.

I know this issue has been beaten to death, but those with old money (before such patches were applied) really don't care whether the traders there and those trying to obtain new money have seen something that would have once granted them a few plat now be virtually worthless when not doing a player-to-player trade.*

*the preceeding was based on a personal assumption, no fact.

My thought is to just leave it alone. I don't mind picking up a small rune now and then for different characters. Usually I just get my own. I don't want them rare so that farmers can make a profit from me.

I've never bought or sold anything in this game and I'd like to keep it that way. If you want to farm and sell that's great but I don't want to be forced to pay for your lack of adventure with my free time.

you've never bought or sold anything? what do you do with the useless crap you pick up?

I would set a base price but not limit how high it can go. Kind of like the materials.

I think the idea WAS to take out the value, and STOP people for farming so that everyone can access these runes.. not just those people who have the time to farm.

Your complaining about not being able to do something which, to me, they deliberatly wanted to stop.

Rune drops are not there to make you rich :-/

The Snowman

THe OP has also forgotten one simple fact. ANet does NOT want us farming. hey intend for us to get our drops by play through the maps and not the traditional farming of monster x to get stuff routine. THey've made it pretty clear that they tend to look down on players that find ways to take advantage of others through extensive farming.

I do think it would be kinda nice of they did have some sort of base price for runes of specific types, but the market econemy we have now works ok as well.

Bottom line... Go out and play the game as it was intended.. Don't go out thinking you are SUPPOSED to find a damn thing outside of quest items and you'll do just fine. Drops are rewards for playing and rare drops should be just that RARE.. not necesarily expensive.

Lost me on that qoute

Nobodys forcing you to pay? Im just asking that they give a fair price for runes not just the standard 25g for everything.

Same goes with Weapon upgrades that sell for a standard 25g no matter if its a Fortitude wrapping +14 or a +45.

Now these prices cant be set to market demand because you cant buy them back.

And I have plenty of adventure. Thats all thats left for a lvl20 PVE player that has completed it all and have nothing left to do than farm and explore out as far as possible.

but wheres the incentive to carry on playing and exploring for good drops when I only get 200g for a very rare gold drop.

Now a standard price thats guaranteed for a Superior would be more appealing for us to carry on playing and searching them out.

i found that i got much richer in the game not from farming but playing. i would farm and sell runes and sit and wait, what seemed like forever for someone to buy them. then i would do quests and find a bow or axe or sword or hammer that i could instantly sell to a guy for 100k and a sigil thats the way to do it. seriosly the people that keep talking about how farming brings nothing anymore are they doing quests in the ring of fire and tunderhead keep where godly rares rarely drop? acctually play the game and get to the end and youll find that you have 2.5 k just picking up gold with a party of 8 and prolly alot of crafting supplies and at least 2 weapons.

People buying things because they are 'gold' and 'rare' does not lead to a good economy. If nobody wants it, nobody will buy it. Raising the minimum price on items nobody is going to buy will result in an increase of gold going into the economy with none going out, lowering the value of gold overall and resulting in inflated prices for all other items, screwing the economy even more.

Just because Anet killed off rune farming, it doesn't mean getting gold is impossible. One thing people farm nowadays are Ectoplasms and Obsidian Shards. They sell for several thousand gold each and are a lot more common than gold armour pieces.

If you are only playing for the item drops (which is what I'm getting from your post) then it makes me wonder if you are actually having fun at all, but I'll just leave it at that.

BTW a lot of the 'useful' superior runes sell above the prices you've listed anyway, so I don't see any change needed there. People are only whining because they can't sell their worthless Superior Rune of Fast Casting and want Anet to screw the economy over so they can get their 5k gold or whatever the hell it is they want.

So tell me how we are suppose to purchase the Underworld armour and all the Materials to go with it. I made a rough calculation of 300k needed and im not suppose to farm to raise gold for it. Or sell rare runes I have found at a decent price to acheive it.

if I take henchies along they share the 100gold pick up's. 8 gold per pick up

Even rare weapons and items dont fetch that much due to the available money not being available anymore (Ahh economy is nearley under control)

But the prices for the Ultimate armour's will be well out of reach for the new players who were not around to sell their Superiors for 50k in the early days

Maybe we need a guild wars national lottery because that seems the only way we will reach 300k gold now.

And if you find a money making scam that can make you 300k you will get Banned Farm for it you will get nerfed.

Maybe ANET could introduce a beggar proffesion so you can sit near the exits of outposts begging for "Small Change Guv"

Well a lottery may not work (or it may), but as many have suggested a casino or large gold sink would be fun

Not the best example, but look at how much time people spent in the Casinos of Las Venturas (GTA: SA) just making money and having fun and somewhat ignoring the main storyline for a while?

LOL. I forget which outpost I was in...but It was of the earlier on outposts and there was a gentleman warrior sitting in the corner with no clothes on telling tales about being ripped off by some noob and begging for change...it was the funniest thing I've seen in GW yet...I'll never forget that poor guy

I'm flat out broke

I need money...

this one guy said he'd sell me a shortbow (which was purple, max dmg, icy) for 20k...

I dont think I'm ever goin to get that...

also when I 'farmed' at prophets path (okay if you want small change) you get about 300 goin from amnoon killin everything until you reach the first teleporter...

I did that to get a celestial sigil

I "play the game as it was intended". Doing so yields next to nothing. It's bad enough that I actually noticed how bad it was and started to keep track of the gold/hour I earn "just playing the game as it was intended".

I'm currently earning 125g per hour of play (15,000g/120 hours). That is 100% unacceptable and I'll tell you why: I want to buy the 15k armor eventually. Just to cover the cost of the armor, not including materials, I would have to play for 600 hours (75,000g/125g per hour). Sorry, but the fact is there isn't enough content to warrant playing the game for 600 hours.

The effort:reward ratio is totally F'ed. ANet wanted to curb farming; wants us to be able to earn what we need "just playing the game as it was intended". Ironically, the changes they've introduced thus far have achieved the exact opposite of what they wanted: it's not possible to earn what we need "just playing the game as it was intended" which forces us to farm.

Totally F'ed.

EDIT: I just realized that my gold/hour isn't entirely fair. I did not take into account the money spent on armor, ID and salvage kits before starting to keep track (duh, right?) Anyway, that would change it to about 22,000 gold earned. To be really fair I have to add in the hours I've played the past couple of days so that would change to 128 hours or so.

22,000g / 128 hours = 172 gold / hour of play or 436 hours to earn enough for the 15k armor if I didn't buy anything in the meantime.

The only way ANet will make money from this game is if people stick around and are interested enough to buy the expansion packs. If EVERYONE was able to Ascend and have Infused armor sooo quickly, well, there goes the staying power of this game. It's not supposed to be a weekend-and-then-you're-done game. Now they have just slowed it down. Enjoy the ride. Make your money the old fashioned way...kill kill kill, explore, and realize you are not going to get 100k for something easy anymore. Not saying that it's wrong or right, but that's the way it is going to be.


A free web-based wargame you can play from anywhere!

uhm...doesn't what you just said go completely against everything ANet has said about this game NOT BEING ABOUT GRIND!

Yup, but you need to farm gold, to actually buy something! and Ba Ne where are you in teh game if you're only makin 125g/hour I think that there's something wrong if you're far in the game... does that include drops?

I would actually wait and see, you are all watering the fireman on a illussionary fire atm.
There may be an influx of runes from PvP that keep prices down, who knows, they may stock traders with minor and major runes as default and leave the superiors as easter eggs for PvE players to find.
The may just unlock a rune for PvP and not actually give you the rune. Then have access to pvp trainer in the arena areas that allows you to mod equipment based on what you have unlocked rather than actually have any reward items in your inventory.

I am sure that the have a battleplan and I suspect like most games it was released before the developers where 100% and the bits that they wanted to add in beta they are now adding now. It is the publisher that decides the release date in the majority of cases. A.net are doing good so far and they are dealling with all the issues that the general public are throwing at them.

you're assuming that ArenaNet has a plan of some sort....when that truth of the matter is that they're most likely flying by the seat of their pants with absolutely no regard for how changes are going to affect the game in the long run. I can only imagine the sense of importance the guys at ArenaNET are having....rushing around...working 14 hour days...skipping lunch break...ALL to put that next patch out....I fear for the sense of failure they'll endure when all those patches ruin a game they worked so hard to create.

Spot On

I have completed the game missions quests and im at the stage where I dont want to play anymore. Please dont reply back saying "Dont play then"

Because I WANT TO PLAY and ANET should be worried that players want to play but when it all comes down to it the game spirals down hill once you have completed the PVE side of the game and boredom kicks in big time and im just lost as what to do now.

Farming kept you occupied and being able to see your cash building up for the hours hard work grinding out 10k but farming now to get 500g isnt worth the hours.

Ive even noticed outside Drokners I killed about 14 Bird things and not even 1 gold dropped Im seeing that more and more in game.

So how do I earn the 300k to get my Armour????????? Prey tell ANET

The 15k armor is in no way required to succeed. The 1.5k armor is just as good. If you want the expensive stuff, GO EARN IT. Or would you like it to be so easy that any 4-year old can obtain it?

To sum up: you complain when they remove the elite skill grind, yet you complain about having to grind for gold to buy completely unnesessary equipment.

Schizophrenic much?

I edited my above post to change the numbers a bit.

I'm currently Ascended with 1.5k Infused armor doing the second mission out of Droknar's. The Iron Mines I believe... can't remember. Yes, that includes drops. Everything I pick up gets converted to cash (whether sold intact or salvaged and sold as materials/runes/upgrades) except materials for platemail and items I can use immediately. I currently have just under four platinum liquid assets, three dyes (two silver, one black), two minor absorption runes, about 300 iron ingots, one steel ingot, and around 100 scales.

Play the game for another 100 session and you should have enough gold, infact play game for another 2-3 months normally and you should be able to afford the 300k armour, which is the same except it looks different.
If the 300k armour was easy to get, then every tom, dick and harry would be wearing it and it would cease to be special.

I wonder if you've received this information from the same source that told you that GW was built on a recycled engine?



Interesting.

I don't mind the grind...infact I enjoy it. I was merely pointing out the fact that ArenaNet has no plan...and that everything they've said has been contradictory...

p.s. I also don't like the SoC change...even my 3 yr daughter can get elites with that change. I prefer a game to be difficult...and some of the people on this site make me want to slit my wrists with all the suggestions they have to make this game "better"(read "easier")

I think the fact that they scurry to patch every little thing two or more of you find to complain about proof enough that they don't have a plan....

ANET made the changes to remove the grind of farming to obtain. I think you are forced to grind even more now since the changes have taken place.

All I was asking is for them to re balance the damage that was caused when they made changes for the PVP brigade to lower their need to grind out the runes and skills. The PVP brigade are all laughing now because theres no more grind for them they can earn it all doing what they enjoy doing and thats PVP play.

Us players who prefer PVE play have been left to grind for gold for our armours. Were not just given it in a PVP setup.

Umm, what are you hunting? Ascalon?

I earned roughly 25k in 5 hours, probably less. I'm not even hunting in the Desert or Lava areas. ( This includes selling Minor / 2-3 Major runes, none sold for more than 1k each )



I'm guessing you're farming with NPCs?

The only reason to grind gold for armor is if you want the 15k sets. There is no PvE reason to have a 15k set as the 1.5k set is equivlent except for its appearance.

Where's the grind in getting 7.5k?

All of my characters are PvE so far, so I don't know - do PvP only characters have access to the 15k armor sets at creation?

No, they don't. I don't see what the big deal is anyways, 15k armors are supposed to be hard to get. People just want everything sooner, rather than later.

This is a letter i wrote to GW support.

Customer (Zach Lynch) 06/24/2005 12:12 PM
Why is it that PvE players/guilds (like myself and guildmates) are being overlooked. You are releasing all these updates that make items more accessible to PvP players for what, choosing a pre-made build and going and playing in Tombs or Guild Battle. Are the PvE players out of luck when it comes to all the hard work that we have spent building our characters from the ground up to be more effective in PvP. More and more our advantage in the PvP realm is being diminished, and I'm sorry but thats not right, hard work is supposed to be rewarded. I do understand that you have to cater to everyone in the game, I also understand that is difficult task but. But when are the PvE characters going to be looked at for updates. You talk of giving ascended characters with obsidian armor a challenge in your letter of updates, why don't you give PvP characters a challenge, like back during the first month of the release and in the betas. Why can't you fix the issues that are already a problem instead of creating new ones.

Here is a post by one of my fellow guildmates of Old Guard. Our website is www.oldguardguild.com We have a very active forum and you are welcome to come and see what we have been discussing.

"Dear Lord...

I can't believe how misguided they are right now.

Regarding the first point, the one about rewarding PvP players with items:

THEY ARE ACCESSIBLE ENOUGH ALREADY. All you need is maybe 10k to get your PvE character fully runed and armored. The Guild Wars economy is ruined, with crafting materials, runes and weapons being virtually worthless unless the terms "obsidian", "ectoplasm" "superior", or "max damage" apply to them. Now, they want to further decrease the value of PvE-obtained items by making them accessible through PvP.

Whoop-dee-doo.

Regarding the second point, about players with obsidian armor needing "a challenge."

Why don't you fix the godamn quest, and increase drops of shards, so that the rest of us can actually BUY that crap. You increased the drops of all the other rare crafting materials, so why not shards and ectoplasm? The quest is glitched right now anyway, limiting the number of people who can get the armor anyway. Let's think...How many people online actually have that underworld armor? Less than a thousand? Out of a community of how many tens or hundreds of thousands?

Fix the problems that exist right now and apply to everyone, instead of creating new probelms which only apply to less than 1% of the Guild Wars community. There's still 15k armor in Marhan's Grotto that hasn't been reskinned, there's still significant problems with henchmen AI. Do they really want to cater more to the PvP players, while the PvE players get the shaft?

Forgive the rant, but I would have expected more from the company."

And as for the economy, which is my biggest issue. Well there is no economy anymore. My guild used to have to work for our money and we were rewarded substantially. But since the introduction of all the traders, mainly the rare crafting material trader and the rune trader, the economy has gone to shit. Runes used to actually be worth a damn, but now they are almost as common as a piece of steel.

Now don't take the wrong idea from this post, you guys have created an absolutely amazing game, and it has exceeded my expectations from the WPE through the BWE's and all the way through the release, and for that I applaud you. I can't say it enough how much I love this game. And a lot of the up updates have helped everyone out. Such as only needing 20k xp to get a skill point, I know my guild was very pleased about that.

All in all, don't forget about the hardworkers. We love the game, and love arenanet. We don't wanna see such a great game go the way of World of Warcraft. Which is shitty.

This was there response:


Hello Zach,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support team on this. I appreciate the time and effort you put into writing this information and I feel that you have made several very good points about the updates to the PvP characters and about the economy in general. Many players feel the exact same way. Therefore, I would very much like to encourage you to consider posting this on one of many of the Guild Wars Fansite message boards (like the one included in your email). A compiled list can be found here (http://guildwars.com/community/default.html). By posting on one of these message boards, other players can comment on your ideas, concerns, and suggestions, and Development Team members are able to catch up on what the community wants to see in Guild Wars. Fansite forums make it easy and efficient for us to learn from those playing the game. The Developer's rely heavily on these site when they write updates and expansions for Guild Wars. I want you to seriously consider posting this.

Thank you for your efforts in assisting us to create the best gaming experience possible. Keep it up!

Let me know what you guys think.

And you dont enjoy that exploring if you dont make any money?..

Thats what I cant understand! I Explore because I want to see everything and do everything.. I'm the kind of person that MUST have 100% on the 'Game progress' Bar. and MUST have explored every inch.

Its not about the money.. its about experiences... Im skint most of the time because I buy shit loads of ale, then go back to stunning scenery spots I rememberd and getting wasted!....(funnier if you have your entire guild)

The lack of gold has never made any difference to the enjoyment I get out of the game, ok, so maybe it takes a few more days to the armour I want.. thats better than being bored in a few days with nothing to do after buying the armour outright.

The Snowman

Can you explain to us how you're only getting 125 gold per hour? I can go outside of town and kill 1-2 monsters and get that much.

That's just playing the game my friend. From Ascalon City to Droknar's Forge with several missions done more than once for various reasons. That's it. No farming, no grinding, just "playing the game as it's meant to be played" wherever the story would take me.

Pretty pathetic, don't you think?

Oh, and look me up sometime. I'd like to earn 5k an hour too please.

BTW: I used the 15k armor as an example because it's the most expensive thing you can buy that has a fixed price. The point being either 1. there's not enough reward being given out for the amount of content or 2. there's not enough content for the amount of reward being given out.

Remind me again, who's complaining? Kindly keep me out of your erroneous generalizations.

I'm sure they have a plan. Whether or not it's being implemented in the most efficient and painless manner is of course debatable. Don't forget they are only human. A shame that their crystal ball is broken. Why not lend them yours?

Your post makes me think, you want them to go against there initial plans.

"The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete."

It's quite funny how they finally start doing some PvP updates, and now we're hearing whining PvE folks. It's an endless cycle. ALL of the weekly updates so far have had PvE updates, and lots of them. Yet you're saying they're NOT updating the PvE side of the game?

Take more time reading, and less time whining.

http://www.guildwars.com/news/gameupdates.html



BTW, If I was A.Net. I'd have delete'd your email ASAP, after reading the 'g-d' comment.

I don't have any idea who you are...nor have I ever included a specific user in a generalization on this forum...stop trolling

Hmmm, do you salvage most of the armors into leather/iron ingots? You can horde those and save them until the material traders buy them for 100+, then sell them.

A easy way to make money is try farming the trolls outside of droknar's forge. (farming as in solo farming) There's a thread on it a few pages back.

I'd give mine but .... sorry need it for my pvp run to HoH.

lol ... when I read this it hit my funny friday bone. I gotta share this with my guild. ty for the light note.