Dye Farmers - Presearing, Something should be done.

Speaking of NOOBs, on my first character playing this game, I was fortunate (didn't know at the time of course) to get a Black Dye drop. I didn't even try to sell it to people, since I didn't know much about it, and just sold it to the nearest merchant for 1g.
Yes, can u believe my reaction once I found out how much they were worth. hehe

Anyways, a game's reputation can be made or destroyed on how friendly people are in the game. If most people are out there to prey and screw the new players, well the word will get around.

Personally, I remember how it was to be a NOOB (really hate that term as well), so I help any new person as much as possible, and I do point out the ones that try to prey or scam players. You can swear at me, tell me to shut up, or what not, but I'll just keep doing what I think is right. Just as some think it's fine to rip off new players, I'll do what I think is fine.

So, rip them off if you want, but don't freak out if someone calls you on it. You get caught, you get caught, simple as that. Move on.

It was said before, but completely ignored: just add a dye trader to pre-searing Ascalon City.

Why do people ressurect 3 month old posts?

becose time is not important , only life is ...

Noob is just an idiot word for people to use to insult others so they can feel big about themselves (while completely forgetting they were once "noobs" too) It's quite simple, next time you see these people who think it's ok to perform daylight robbery on the unsuspecting, just broadcast in Trade channel how much black dyes can be sold for post searing.

I bought a black dye off someone cheap, then after talking to them and realising they were new to the game handed over a few k more to make it more in line with it's real worth and explained about post searing and the prices etc (at first I thought it was an established player's second account just offloading it cheap). Why? How would YOU feel if it happened to you or your friends? Why would you want to inflict that on someone else?

For those who are saying they should research their prices before selling, dont be so ridiculas.
Their are no dye traders, and they are new to the game. Not the same as being stupid, thier obviosly not the kind of people that will spend several hours reading up on how to play the game, but rather JUST PLAY IT, (whereas you seem to suggest they are noobs for not reading up trade prices on the web, ohhhh i bet that makes you feel BIG).
Its taking advantage of the fact that unless someone is nice enought to tell them, they wont have any clues telling them dye can sell for 1000s, why would they?

Those of you that say its all part of an economy and trading have a point, i dont agree, but you make a point. i just think its taking advantage of peoples newness.

And yes put a dye trader in, i mean why isnt their one already....

It's the cost of being uninformed.

Frankly I don't care that people are getting ripped off for their dyes in pre-searing and I don't feel that A.net has to do anything about it. Call it a learning curve.

If I got ripped off by selling a black dye for 100g I would simply chalk it up as a learning experience. I certainly don't expect sellers to tell me its real worth.

It's sort of like selling a player a Malinon Shield for 100k but at the same time telling him that he can buy it for 70k elsewhere.

Erm, its sort of nothing like that. try buy a black for 200g and telling them it can sell for 5k is kinda like it, but thats not whats happening.

Yes, so stick a dye trader in and then its only the truly stupid that get scammed. As it is its the average player getting ripped off, why support that?

Not really.. you need to get gold too, and those mobs drop like 1-2 at a time. 500g for a black dye in pre is A LOT of work

I sometimes spam "WTS black dye 100 gold" in pre-sear and enjoy the chaos.

The very first time I played guildwars, I was almost done with pre-searing, and I did not know where to go, so I just started to do the Northern Wall quest over and over again (max 3 times). Well, I found 2 black dyes... then I went to the merchant and sold them both for 1 gp..... 0_0

unlucky u... did not know how much they cost

My god, someone figured out a way to repeatedly kill creatures to obtain
an item worth a sizeable amount and other people don't like it.


Stop the presses.

errr, thats not what the threads about.

its about buying black dye for 200gp or so from pre seers who dont know its worth thousands.

Thread Title: Dye Farmers - Presearing, Something should be done.

Dye Farmers - Presearing, Something

Dye Farmers - Presearing,

Dye Farmers -

Dye Farmers

Farmers

READ THE THREAD AT THE BEGINING :P

not just the title.

Their you go as you cant be bothered to go back and read it.

If their not knowledgable..then 2 types of people will effect them. Ones that want their items, and ones that dont want the before mentioned ones to get their items.

Anyway...Theres plenty of resources they coulda used to determine that Dye should be kept in pre-searing. 1) The manual tells you they are bought/sold to traders, which you find out are in Post-searing. 2) You should have sense enough to know that if someone is spamming something out like that - He is probably out to make a buck..

Plus lay off Sister - She is right...Farming is farming...Whenever someone finds a way to make alot of money people will have a problem with it.

Actually i wasnt having a go

i was simply pointing out that she had read the title not the thead.

And my opionoin on this is that alot of people tend to just play games, not research them before they do. This does not make them stupid as some people have suggested, and it does not mean they deserve to be ripped off.

An economy is fine, but lets not pretend that some people are simple being taking advantage of.

I did read the OP

He's whining about how an item that has a strictly cosmetic use
is now being harvested from both players and specific areas
and doesn't like it.

And I still don't care.

and i didnt address your second point.

Very true, but most people are not traders, they just do abit hear and their. Their are clues to say dye is sold later, but not at prices of over 5k, this is why i think its taking advantage of their lack of experiance.

I really dont know why people are defending this even if it is taking advantage of stupid people (which it isnt, its newbies), like that makes it ok.

wow thanks for your info, lifechanging.

I object but blame ANet for not making the sell value of a dye reflect its actual trade value. If looking at the item showed its value they wouldn't be duped. Instead of showing 1 gp, just show the current selling value when looking at the item in your pack; have it show the correct value at the merchant in presearing. When you go to sell however (since they try to limit gold in pre) the merchant explains that he can't afford to carry products like that, but that if you hold onto it he's sure you can find a dye trader buying at that price somewhere. That way no spoiler, but instantly educates the new player to the value of dye and the existence (at some point) of a dye trader.

Whenever I was in pre, and heard someone wanting to buy dyes for cheap, I would say in public chat, "People should hang onto their dyes, they are worth more later in the game." Many times I would find support from the other players around, many times I would get whisper threats.

There is "free" market and there is "fair" market. The fair market value is determined when both the buyer and the seller are aware of an item's value.

Hypothetical RL situation: A fine arts appraiser goes to a yard sale, recognizes a Van Gogh sitting there with a price tag of $1. Appraiser keeps quiet about the attribution, buys it at $1, takes it to auction and nets $39,999,999 from the sale. Yard sale operator finds out, takes appraiser to court, appraiser loses license and the money.

Same principle; you can tell me real-life LAWS don't apply. Fine. But ethics is ethics.

You can be unethical and jerky but expect me to fight you when I see you in presearing pulling this crap.

Scamming stupid people is still scamming. If your happy about that then fine.

I do beleive its up to you if you want to scamm or be scammed in this game. Some people will scam and some will try to help the noobies from being scammed. I hate the attitude that if they are stupid enough to be scammed then thats their fault though...remeber you are praying on unexperienced people who you know many not know alot about the game...not stupid ones there is a difference.

put a dye trader in pre-sear, problem solved

ok.. u guys r bashing... from dye.. o wow.. if ppl dont know.. they will learn....besides i doubt dye would BE a big thing to have lost....seeing u can find a rune and get 10 k out of it.. and black dye is 7,500...ppl wanna cheat do it.. they only benefitting themeself.. y not do it? *pets his 223 k in stash* and YES none were of scamming nooblets, ecto selling and 3 sup vigs.

No, that introduces a ton of money in pre-sear, which it would seem they are trying to avoid. But yes, solves problem. I'd like to see expert salvage kits in pre-sear, I've been making so much cloth out of runes...

yeah they should put a dye trader in. i hate people who take advantage of others, irl or in-game. but 99% of the gw community is like that unfortunately.

i'm a little shocked at how many people in this thread don't mind taking advantage of new players. it's obvious that someone is new when they try to sell their black dyes for only a few hundred gold.

why not do the right thing and tell the player to wait before selling, that they'll get a lot more for it in post-searing? i used my first black dye on my first armor set not knowing how much it was worth. i wish i knew. make a player happy by helping them out. don't take advantage of them.

I don't think dye traders, necessarily, but perhaps dye pricers. They neither sell nor bye; they just have the buy/sell prices listed, refreshing it accordingly. They're basically dye traders, just without the buy/sell function.

very good idea siren. die pricers would be helpful to new players.

problem is, Celdor, many people would rather make themselves happy rather than someone else...

Agreed, most people in pre find something and immediately go to trader to sell it and get the gold. So they go to the merchant and see 1 gold for a bottle of black..then see someone else paying 200g. As far as the "new player" knows this person is crazy and obviously they will take 200 over 1, not knowing that they in actuallity are getting scammed by the merchant as well as by the "generous 200g buyer". The most basic cause is...black dye is worth 1 gold to the trader and thats shafting all the newbies that go check the worth of their drop.

Lots of traders now have the "Get Quote" feature, so give the merchant this option but a message saying anything over 1k or 500 g or whatever cannot be sold to the merchant until later in the game. At least then they will have an idea of the value that the item really has.

that's because people, for the most part, don't have to take responsibility for their actions online.

i can only speak for myself. i'd rather help people than not.

I don't have anything against sticking a dye trader in pre-searing.

However if you could buy a 100k item for 10k, would you correct the seller? I wouldn't, and I don't think you would either.

If everybody bought and sold every item at the same prices, then the game would merely turn into who can farm the longest and get the best drops.

Because I don't believe in keeping stupid people around, Darwinism at its best! If a person stops playing Guild Wars because someone traded unfairly with him, so be it.

Some people struggle to make money so they resort to doing this because they dont know any builds or farming spots, its kind of sad really.

I once picked up a black dye in pre seering and shouted out WTS black dye 10 gold, i got at least 10 people wispering me saying il buy. 2 of those people was telling me that i cud get 7k for it in post seering, i knew that obiously but i wanted to see how many people would actually try and rip me of

But that’s a really bad comparison. Dye is clearly labelled price wise once you reach post, but pre it’s a guess. So people are deliberately taking advantage of new people not knowing the mechanics of the game and trading, also remember that some people are also new to online gaming. And finally trading is not for everyone, some people do not want to spend time researching what x should be worth, so they trust people (and later regret it) that does not make them stupid just different from you.

(oh and as to correcting them, who knows I don’t trade so I probably wouldn’t know if I’m ripping them off or visa versa).



And like I said, their is a difference between being new and being stupid, or maybe you just like to feel false sense of superiorority?

(And where did anyone say about people not playing any more because of it)

I fail to see why people get so worked up over something so trivial and unimportant.

Dyes have no impact on gameplay whatsoever, other than economically. Sure, they change the color of your armor and items, but otherwise dyes don't improve your character in any way that affects your ability to play the game. They just add flavor and nothing more.

So what if someone is buying dyes for low low prices only to turn around and sell them at high high prices? They are simply playing an economics game instead of the regular game of Guild Wars. If they manage to buy a black dye for 100 gold, they win. If they can't find a sucker who wants to sell, they lose. If that's what they want to do with their time, so be it. It's not personal, it's just business. They aren't trying to hurt people. They are simply trying to make money.

As others have pointed out, we all do this exact same thing whenever we buy or sell items involving other players. Everyone tries to buy items for low prices and sell them for high prices. Is this wrong? Should we all be stopped from doing this? If so, why is trading between players even allowed in the first place? Should it be removed from the game because it allows players the possibility of making a profit?

The real problem here is that the value of dye fluctuates. Why is this so? If I go to buy paint at the Home Depot, I don't pay more for black paint than I do for red paint. Paint is paint, and every color (of the same type of paint) costs the same amount.

This problem extends to every type of item in the game, not just dyes. Why do max damage fellblades sell for more than max damage longswords with the exact same stats? Is one better than the other? Will it make any difference which one you use? Heck no! So does this mean that people who charge more for items that have only a cosmetic difference from common items are cheating you? After all, they aren't selling you a better product...

Now you may argue that the reason these items sell for a higher price is because of their rarity. Sure, fellblades are rarer than longswords, and black dye is rarer than other colors. But again, what difference does it make? The color of my armor does not improve my skills. And having a fellblade will not make your W/? or ?/W character any better than if you had a longsword. So you are paying for an image, which has nothing to do with actually playing the game, so why should anyone be concerned about people making a profit off of the vanity of others? It certainly doesn't ruin my Guild Wars experience in the least.

If you really think there is a problem here, I offer this as a solution: Fix the price of dyes. Sell dyes for a single fixed price that never fluctuates. Dye Traders would then make every color of dye available to every player at the same reasonable price. Everyone could freely pick and choose what colors they wanted to use, and this entire issue would dissolve. Personally I think this is completely unnecessary, since you can play the game quite comfortably without any dyes at all. But for those of you who feel so strongly that wheeling and dealing in the dye market is bad/evil/wicked behavior, this is perhaps the only solution for you.

You clearly missed the point of the complaint.

Situation 1:

→Person A has a black dye in pre-searing.
→Person B offers to buy black dye for 500g.
→Person A knows that it will sell for 5,000 in post-searing.
→Person A sells it to Person B for 500g because they really don't care about the 4,500g later.


Situation 2:

→Person A has a black dye in pre-searing.
→Person B offers to buy black dye for 500g.
→Person A doesn't know how rare and expensive Black Dye really is. They think that 500g is all they'll get later, so why not sell now.
→Person A sells it to Person B for 500g because they don't know they're being taken advantage of.



You don't see it, but there is a difference in those situations.

How many of these scammers say "WTB Black Dye for 500g! You can sell it for 5,000g in post-sear, but I buy for 500g NOW!"?

Not a single one. They're not playing economically. They're intentionally scamming newer players. And if it's their first character, how the HELL are they supposed to know the post-sear price? It's the friendless loser scum with no self-confidence IRL that feels the need to cheat people online in a game to make themselves cool that are the problem.

It's not simply "buy low, sell high." If the seller were always informed up front about post-sear price, and they still sold it for a fraction of that, there wouldn't be a problem. But they aren't, so it is. Don't try to spin it like it's simple market-playing. It's not.

I am fully aware of the original complaint. I merely pointed out that it is entirely pointless.

- How long does it take a newbie character to earn 500 gold? Probably an hour or so in pre-searing. (Items just aren't worth very much there.)

- How long does it take an experienced character to earn 5000 gold? Probably an hour or so in post-searing. (That's how long it takes me. I dunno about the rest of you.)

I am also unconvinced that people who buy black dye in pre to sell it in post are necessarily evil/bad/wicked people with no friends who do it simply to make themselves feel superior to others. Sure, maybe some of them are this way, but isn't it possible that many of them are just regular players trying to earn some cash?

Now I'm not trying to justify the actions of these people, but I'm not condemning them either. I know that I can earn money simply by playing the game as it was intended, and I don't need to stand around in pre-searing for hours trying to buy dyes. Money is so easy to acquire in this game, but not everyone knows how to do it. So why do you condemn these people for trying to earn money? Who are you to judge? Somehow I doubt you've never bought something for less money that it was really worth, or sold something for more than it was worth.

Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone. (What's this? I don't see any rocks flying.)

/me throws a rock
I'll have you know I've never scammed someone who didn't know better, even when they should have.
Dyes are special though, because all signs point to them being worthless until you first speak with a Dye Trader. So it's not their own fault, see, it's because the game is lacking that one little feature, such as a dye trader in ascalon city, that they are being scammed. That, and the fact that some people lack morals.