Dye Farmers - Presearing, Something should be done.

AncientPC

AncientPC

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Ascalon 1

W/R

10 Nov 2005 at 05:46 - 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumoto
Are you forgetting that kids from around 10 years old play this game too? that don't really know what scamming is about? That don't know they're blinded by other people?
Game's rated teen for kids 13+. If they still fall for it, tough luck.

Quote:
Even if people fall for the scammers, it's still not fair, and to blame the victims for their lack of knowledge is crap.
John buys an older $5k car which he sells to someone else for $10k, he does not go to jail. David sells fake Rolexes for $50k, he goes to jail.

Buying dyes is the same as the car example, not the Rolex example.

Quote:
Everyone has been a newbie and if you were scammed and you found out later you wouldn't like it either, even if it's just a game.
I bought a bow for 40k that I later found out to be 20k. I chalked it up as a learning experience and thus you see me very active in the price checking sub forum (Ventari Sell -> Etc). Was I angry at the seller? No. Was I angry at myself? No.

Quote:
You can't expect somebody that just entered the game to know every price and everything else in the game.
You can't expect the company or the community to spoon feed him either.

Quote:
Btw there are no dye-traders in Pre-Searing Ascalon as far as I know ... and new people see they can sell the dyes for 1 gold at the merchants ... so they'll sell it for any price higher than 1 gold to anyone... not knowing it's worth 7000 gold.
Tough luck, life's not fair.

Quote:
You see.. Guild Wars creators are also at fault for letting people be able to misuse this...
It's not their responsibility.

Chance Folly

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

E/Mo

10 Nov 2005 at 05:47 - 123
What a serious waste of bandwidth, guys.

Anyways, as Saerden put it, I believe that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saerden
If someone does not take his time to figure out the best prices for his wares, he has no right to be selling them for a fair price.
I mean, think about it. Do you really think that it is so hard to find out the price of Black Dye, even without the traders? No. Just ask in a random district, and you'll recieve plenty of accurate answers. The way I see it, if a person can't be bothered to type out a single chat message for an item that he's selling, then he doesn't deserve that 4-8k. I mean, 20-30 seconds of typing to double-check an item that is very valuable at that point in the game (assuming someone's offering them 200g). They may be new, but that doesn't give them a right to make uneducated trades, and then complain about their own mistake.

Mumoto

Mumoto

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Netherlands

N/Mo

10 Nov 2005 at 05:48 - 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whosaidwhatnow
Thats probably part of the reason the game says 12+ on the cover. 10 year olds shouldn't be playing this game if you don't want them interacting with 20, 30, 40 and 50 year olds who could have any number of questionable motives. What I said still applies, scams and hustles are a part of life, get used to them in a game where it doesn't matter before you buy a busted-ass time-share on an active faultline.

Anyway I think there's a huge difference between someone getting scammed - ie they get screwed on some trade window technicality, or they pay a runner up front and he absconds with the loot - and someone not knowing how much their item is worth. That's just plain ignorance. Guild Wars states that all dyes are worth 1gp when you pick them up, if something has to change, maybe its that. I don't remember a helpful hint window popping up to tell me to sell my items to their respective traders or I'll be scammed... I just saw 1gp and figured dyes were worthless.

Next, I have been scammed. I've given away items for next to nothing or paid too much. Did I cry about it? Was I blowing smoke out the ears because I "wasted" an hour getting that item? If I thought it was worthless, and I was okay with that, why should it make a difference when I realize it was worth more to someone else? It wasn't worth anything to me, so I got rid of it.

I sell all my items much cheaper than the "norm" because I want to get rid of them, get them out to people who will actually use them... I'm not interested in having a storage box full of useless but "valuable" items so I can spend my time spamming WTS WTS WTS in the major cities until I can milk every last penny out of the economy. I think this oppressive greed is almost as bad as scammers... well maybe not scammers, but swindlers, as someone put it, which again I think are vastly different from one another.

Pff another 'profile' about yourself, I'm not talking about you... I'm talking about the newbies. You might not care now because you probably have a good farming character and have FoW armor and stuff, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't liked it if you knew and you were short for some other armor.

Ignorance... hmm so if I bought the game and just made my first character and in the first 10 minutes I find a black dye and somebody wants to buy it for 50 gold or something and I sell it.

How can you call it ignorant? if those people barely know how much anything is going to cost in the game, there's a reason people are called newbies in the beginning, you're acting like everyone's perfect and everyone knows everything right after they stepped in the GW-world.

Mumoto

Mumoto

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Netherlands

N/Mo

10 Nov 2005 at 05:52 - 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientPC
Game's rated teen for kids 13+. If they still fall for it, tough luck.



John buys an older $5k car which he sells to someone else for $10k, he does not go to jail. David sells fake Rolexes for $50k, he goes to jail.

Buying dyes is the same as the car example, not the Rolex example.



I bought a bow for 40k that I later found out to be 20k. I chalked it up as a learning experience and thus you see me very active in the price checking sub forum (Ventari Sell -> Etc). Was I angry at the seller? No. What I angry at myself? No.



You can't expect the company or the community to spoon feed him either.



Tough luck, life's not fair.



It's not their responsibility.

13 whatever, they still don't know wether they've been scammed or not... and even older people get scammed because they don't know.


you're example is not good because it's the other way around you know <_<


so you don't deny that you have been scammed.

ehm just because they're noob it's not fair if they get scammed right after they get into the game.

Life's not fair, but this is something in a game which requires a few changes.

It's their responsibility to make this game fair and playable for 12+ players and they said that they're finding ways to remove cheaters and scammers and this is one of the things what they can change to decrease the scamming.

Argentus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

10 Nov 2005 at 05:53 - 126
Mumoto,

1) I never said that directly telling someone black dye is not worth much and then buying it for only 500 gold wasn't lying. NEVER. Feel free to quote me if you can.

2) If you feel that not telling someone an item is more valuable and then buying it from them at a lower price is lying, then almost every monetary transaction is also a lie, because this is how the world works. I'm not claiming this is right or wrong. I've merely asked, "Who are we to judge?" If you choose to interpret this as my acceptance of the situation, that's your choice. I have never claimed to be a supporter of this philosophy. NEVER. Feel free to quote me if you can.

And believe me, I'm not sucking up to you. You can make a fool out of yourself without any help from me.

Mumoto

Mumoto

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Netherlands

N/Mo

10 Nov 2005 at 05:59 - 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentus
Mumoto,

1) I never said that directly telling someone black dye is not worth much and then buying it for only 500 gold wasn't lying. NEVER. Feel free to quote me if you can.

2) If you feel that not telling someone an item is more valuable and then buying it from them at a lower price is lying, then almost every monetary transaction is also a lie, because this is how the world works. I'm not claiming this is right or wrong. I've merely asked, "Who are we to judge?" If you choose to interpret this as my acceptance of the situation, that's your choice. I have never claimed to be a supporter of this philosophy. NEVER. Feel free to quote me if you can.

And believe me, I'm not sucking up to you. You can make a fool out of yourself without any help from me.

1) but you did say that to scam you have to lie in the following quote
and my example said that you don't have to say anything to be a liar.

Quote:
On the other hand, if I tell newbies that black dye is not worth very much and that I'll be doing them a big favor by giving them a generous 500 gold for theirs, then I'm lying, and this action would be considered a scam.
2) Ehm not really: The costs in real life products are for production and a bit money of it is what people earn for their work.
It's not lying because we all know and we accept it, it's not a scam because the people working on the products need to earn money too.

You can't compare it with Guild Wars because there is no 'production' in Guild Wars... the players can't do that, they find the items and sell them.
Some people try to swindle people to get something cheap and sell it for lots of money later on.

Argentus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

10 Nov 2005 at 06:00 - 128
Mumoto,

How does that make any of my statements incorrect???

AncientPC

AncientPC

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Ascalon 1

W/R

10 Nov 2005 at 06:00 - 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumoto
13 whatever, they still don't know wether they've been scammed or not... and even older people get scammed because they don't know.
If people get repeatedly scammed they're stupid. If you don't like the word stupid sugarcoat it with a nicer sounding word like "gullible" or "too trustworthy".

Quote:
you're example is not good because it's the other way around you know <_<
What's wrong with my car / watch example?

A mustang is worth $8k. John buys it for $5k, then sells it for $10k. Using your definition he just scammed two people.

A fake Rolex is worth $0. Bob tries to sell it for $50k, he is a scammer.

Apparently you lump John and Bob in the same category.

Quote:
so you don't deny that you have been scammed.
That was not a scam, the seller did not trick me into believing I was buying something else. He just sold the bow to me at a price higher than it was worth.

Wal-Mart sells a toy for $5. Target sells the same toy for $7. Using your definition, Target is scamming its customers.

Quote:
ehm just because they're noob it's not fair if they get scammed right after they get into the game.

Life's not fair, but this is something in a game which requires a few changes.
I hate this coddling of kids and even adults. Life isn't fair, instead of trying to change the system adapt to it.

Quote:
It's their responsibility to make this game fair and playable for 12+ players and they said that they're finding ways to remove cheaters and scammers and this is one of the things what they can change to decrease the scamming.
Once again, different pricing is not the same as scamming.

Argentus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

10 Nov 2005 at 06:02 - 130
Oh, and you think that products sell for just the cost of materials and labor? Get real!

Whosaidwhatnow

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

10 Nov 2005 at 06:02 - 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumoto
Pff another 'profile' about yourself, I'm not talking about you... I'm talking about the newbies. You might not care now because you probably have a good farming character and have FoW armor and stuff, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't liked it if you knew and you were short for some other armor.

Ignorance... hmm so if I bought the game and just made my first character and in the first 10 minutes I find a black dye and somebody wants to buy it for 50 gold or something and I sell it.

How can you call it ignorant? if those people barely know how much anything is going to cost in the game, there's a reason people are called newbies in the beginning, you're acting like everyone's perfect and everyone knows everything right after they stepped in the GW-world.

Get off the soapbox kid. If you'd read the entirety of what I said rather than the choice bits you decided to pounce on, you'd see that I said these scams happen in GW and in REAL LIFE. Knowing nothing about GW is no excuse for not knowing a little something about human nature, and the old saying "the buyer beware".

Anyway I've only posted on this forum maybe 5 times total, and I've already seen you wasting bandwidth arguing with anyone who'll listen, posting 45 times a second and actually getting a thread closed because you refused to listen to anyone but yourself. You're a waste of my time, you won't listen to anyone elses point of view, and you're a whiner. I'm done with you. Seriously, post what you will to someone else, because I really don't care, not one iota, about your opinion. Go ahead and quote this and try and bait me into coming back, I'm done. I know you want attention, but you won't get it from me. Have a good one.

Mumoto

Mumoto

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Netherlands

N/Mo

10 Nov 2005 at 06:05 - 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentus
Oh, and you think that products sell for just the cost of materials and labor? Get real!
If you call that a fraud... get a life really... you're only trying to act like you know everything.

taxes are also included btw.

you're a dumb4$$ for calling in Real-World stuff into something which has to do with a game.

Did you make a black dye? Did you have to labor to MAKE the dye? No.
So you can't compare it with the real world.

Savio

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

10 Nov 2005 at 06:05 - 133
I give up. Argentus, Mumoto, you two earned a spot on my bad list for continuing an argument even after I deleted several posts. Closed.