Balanced stance + desperation blow & drunken blow, with 16 tactics = ALOT of damage...
I like it a lot. Penblow and penchop is quite the combo.
Get rid of doubled skills (petition)
Jornac
Kennaway
/not signed
If someone wants to use 2 of their 8 skill slots for the same skill, then let them.
If someone wants to use 2 of their 8 skill slots for the same skill, then let them.
viper008
/not signed
Wretchman Drake
/not signed
TideSwayer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grammar
Does anyone else see this as an attempt to buff certain attributes/weapons rather than to "add flexibility"?
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I don't know the list of skills that are doubled, and from what I read it doesn't seem to be anything all that significant (may just be a test for future doubles in Chapter 3 and beyond), but this is an interesting idea that has been added to build construction IMO.
crimsonfilms
Quote:
| Balanced stance + desperation blow & drunken blow, with 16 tactics = ALOT of damage... |
Energy based build warriors tends to be a bad idea. Even with full Glads and Zealous.
qwe4rty
/not signed
Karmakin
So /not signed it's not even funny.
In fact, I hope in Chapter 3 we see some more duplicates. I'm disapointed that Orison, for an example, isn't duplicated.
In fact, I hope in Chapter 3 we see some more duplicates. I'm disapointed that Orison, for an example, isn't duplicated.
Hella Good
I said it before, duplication of skills is a cheap idea. There is many ways they could've achieved their intent to add strategic depth and among those dupe skills are the worst solution.
On top of it some of the duped skills have like 2 seconds recharge... I mean, wtf is with that? Like Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight I can live with: 30 sec recharge negated. But stuff like Touch of Agony (Wallow's Bite) and Vamp Touch (Vamp Bite) is kind of pointless. Why would you buff touch necros AND more importantly touch rangers??? They own ANYWAY.
Again, there are many OTHER options to add the desired strategic depth (including adding similar skills- Jaundiced Gaze~Vamp Gaze meets Dark Pact; adding duplicating skills like Arcane Echo, Echo; adding fast recharge skills like Glyph of Renewal; including the 30 or so skills in the core skill set; etc.) this one is the WRONG solution. I think this quote from another thread on this matter sums it up nicely:
Just to give an example of how to solve the problem using the similar skills strategy:
Revealed Hex: 5 energy, 1 cast, 12 recharge
Shorten the duration of a hex on target ally by (up to 66%), gain (up to 33%) more nrg than same level Inspired Hex.
On top of it some of the duped skills have like 2 seconds recharge... I mean, wtf is with that? Like Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight I can live with: 30 sec recharge negated. But stuff like Touch of Agony (Wallow's Bite) and Vamp Touch (Vamp Bite) is kind of pointless. Why would you buff touch necros AND more importantly touch rangers??? They own ANYWAY.
Again, there are many OTHER options to add the desired strategic depth (including adding similar skills- Jaundiced Gaze~Vamp Gaze meets Dark Pact; adding duplicating skills like Arcane Echo, Echo; adding fast recharge skills like Glyph of Renewal; including the 30 or so skills in the core skill set; etc.) this one is the WRONG solution. I think this quote from another thread on this matter sums it up nicely:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
I'm using Arcane Thievery! I'm using Arcane Larceny! I'm using Arcane Robbery! I'm using Arcane Perjury! I'm using Arcane Piracy! I'm using Arcane Swindle! I'm using Arcane Hoodwink!
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Revealed Hex: 5 energy, 1 cast, 12 recharge
Shorten the duration of a hex on target ally by (up to 66%), gain (up to 33%) more nrg than same level Inspired Hex.
EternalTempest
/Not Signed
Every play magic the gathering, there a reason you can have 4 of any one type in a deck.
Every play magic the gathering, there a reason you can have 4 of any one type in a deck.
Grimm
There is no reason not to like this. They are *bonuses*. You still get the 300 or however many brand new skills. Stop whining over every little thing and play the game.
Not signed.
Not signed.
VGJustice
/not signed
The original of the doubled skill most likely won't be availabe to Factions only players. Don't hobble them for no good reason.
The original of the doubled skill most likely won't be availabe to Factions only players. Don't hobble them for no good reason.
Karmaniac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
I said it before, duplication of skills is a cheap idea. There is many ways they could've achieved their intent to add strategic depth and among those dupe skills are the worst solution.
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This is so /signed
crash
im a ranger and would love whirling defence X2-this will make for crazy combos i aint sayin nothin till i get too try all combos but i can see super runner for sure-if runners can get all ditto skills and go back they can go thru anything-i dont know we will wait and see i guess
Aarroe of Gilgamesh
/not signed
this is the biggest crybaby petition i have seen most people complain when they get nerfed not when they are empowered^^ they give you more flexibility and a duplicate ability without forcing you into a mesmer sub. on top of the echos dont work with skills anyways this provides a whole new level of possibilty
this is the biggest crybaby petition i have seen most people complain when they get nerfed not when they are empowered^^ they give you more flexibility and a duplicate ability without forcing you into a mesmer sub. on top of the echos dont work with skills anyways this provides a whole new level of possibilty
Albas
/not signed
I'm sure anet wouldn't mistakingly add in duplicate skills that would unbalance the game and cause massive chaos everywhere, resulting in the end of the world as we know it. You have dupicate skills now. Learn to use them effectively, and if you hate them then don't use them.
I'm sure anet wouldn't mistakingly add in duplicate skills that would unbalance the game and cause massive chaos everywhere, resulting in the end of the world as we know it. You have dupicate skills now. Learn to use them effectively, and if you hate them then don't use them.
crash
-sign or no sign it means nothin-we wont no sht till we get too try the combos -i think we will probablly be suprized when we think of good double combos that cant be beat and see they dont work when we try them . I know for a fact that ive thought of all kinds of ways too use ditto skills but i know they could backfire bigtime.How can we vote without some good time battles with all diff kinds of enemies with diff prof..
dansamy
/not signed because I happen to adore having 2 heal areas for minion masters.
Ado
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...51#post1148951
My experiences with an overpowered sword-warrior.
(maybe a moderator could close my thread and copy-paste it into this thread, sorry for double posting the same subject)
My experiences with an overpowered sword-warrior.
(maybe a moderator could close my thread and copy-paste it into this thread, sorry for double posting the same subject)
heavy metal rules
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omega X
Ok, if they add 30 duplicate skills. Then what is the point of having core universal skills. It defeats the purpose.
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IF, doesn't even come into play becuae their not adding 30 duplicate skills...geez
/not signed
Sents
Well after reading this Im kinda relieved, I was kinda dissaspointed when I saw that there were quite a few skills that seemed to be just that, 'clones'.....But I hadnt thought about it from the point of view of someone only having Factions and needing to have some of those same utility type skills/spells/etc...
Guess Id have to say not signed, long as we get a bunch of new skills everytime Im happy. Though I can foresee some possible balance issues, well just have to wait and see how it all washses out.
/not signed
Guess Id have to say not signed, long as we get a bunch of new skills everytime Im happy. Though I can foresee some possible balance issues, well just have to wait and see how it all washses out.
/not signed
Inari
Can it not be that they simply renamed several skills?
I mean for example, the changed the name of the necro desecrate enchantments into ______ enchantments (can't remember the name), and they changed the name of the ele spell crystal wave too.
Can it possibly be a mere name change?
I mean for example, the changed the name of the necro desecrate enchantments into ______ enchantments (can't remember the name), and they changed the name of the ele spell crystal wave too.
Can it possibly be a mere name change?
Amok
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Inari
Can it not be that they simply renamed several skills?
I mean for example, the changed the name of the necro desecrate enchantments into ______ enchantments (can't remember the name), and they changed the name of the ele spell crystal wave too. Can it possibly be a mere name change? |
Argen
Not signed... primary reason for this is I have no idea what the long term effects of this will be. I'd like to see what happens when you have the "clone" skills. Unless there is a major balance issue than I really can't think of a major problem. Its not like ANet is cheating us. 
If there is an unbalancing skill set, I'm sure we'll see in the next few months. If not, than you can cram your skill bar full of Vampiric this and thats, and steal all the life in the world.
If there is an unbalancing skill set, I'm sure we'll see in the next few months. If not, than you can cram your skill bar full of Vampiric this and thats, and steal all the life in the world.
Hella Good
Quote:
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Originally Posted by heavy metal rules
IF, doesn't even come into play becuae their not adding 30 duplicate skills...geez
/not signed |
Just one thing: people who like the idea seem to be fascinated by the short term effect of creating builds that might as well be over the top. Bottom line is, if this continues, 3-4 chapters down the line we will have more double skills than unique ones and that's just bs. The whole strategic depth thing is going to turn into clone skills galore. And yes, I know that for Factions only players these skills won't appear as doubles, and I'm sure this will be true for other chapters if they continue doing this. But:
no1) it's not necessary, because there is other ways to achieve this (as I have already said 1000 times),
no2) it will create huge confusion (people calling same skills by different names, people not being able to keep up with all the clone skill names, and what they are clone skills of in the 1st place)
no3) it is bound to create balance issues (I mean really.... stacking my whole bar with Divine Healing clones for example will be kind of ridiculous)
no4) will harm the overall impression of the game, because its a CHEAP move.
danakin
Once again, some of the skills need to be duped, simply for the Factions only players. Don't know why people don't understand this...
/Not Signed
/Not Signed
CKaz
/signed
Use the same dang name, say the skill can be used 'x' times on the bar then.
These different names are silly. As I posted earlier, can't wait till chp8.
Are these really balanced as well? Several of them I doubt...
I'd say they should of simply made them core skills, doing it this way is very lame.
I'm against doing this in general but if they're going to go through with it be smart about it.
Don't understand how some people don't get the CORE SKILL set and/or the fact they DIDN'T have to be goofily named.
Use the same dang name, say the skill can be used 'x' times on the bar then.
These different names are silly. As I posted earlier, can't wait till chp8.
Are these really balanced as well? Several of them I doubt...
I'd say they should of simply made them core skills, doing it this way is very lame.
I'm against doing this in general but if they're going to go through with it be smart about it.
Don't understand how some people don't get the CORE SKILL set and/or the fact they DIDN'T have to be goofily named.
Hella Good
Quote:
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Originally Posted by danakin
Once again, some of the skills need to be duped, simply for the Factions only players. Don't know why people don't understand this...
/Not Signed |
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CKaz
/.
Are these really balanced as well? Several of them I doubt... I'd say they should of simply made them core skills, doing it this way is very lame. Don't understand how some people don't get the CORE SKILL set and/or the fact they DIDN'T have to be goofily named. |
lets just keep adding core skills to the list.NEWSFLASH ALL
somebody counted them up and we get the full advertised 300 NEW SKILLS PLUS A BONUS OF ABOUT 30 SKILLS NONE OF WHICH SEEM TO BE MONSTERS OF IMBALANCE
and i will take izzys judgement of balance over yours anytime
NOTE THOSE ARE EXTRA OVER AND ABOVE THE 300 NEW ONES
Quote:
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Hella Good Ok, I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense. Just give them the 30 or so skills ANYWAY? WITHOUT doing the cheap renaming and WITHOUT introducing them as NEW skills to the community. |
as stated the small number of dupes were intended and since 2 skills with the same name cant be used at the same time they had to name change.
x-todd
ok i have a question. i have been holding off creating an elem or mesmer in prophesies campaign because, welll... ive already beaten the game 3 times with other characters and dont really feel like going thru this campaign much more...
anyway, i am wanting to maybe get into using an elem or mes in the factions game. well by reading a lot of stuff going on, when i create, lets say an elem, in Factions, as i play the factions game, will there be skills that i dont get that are only in prophecies campaign? i just thought that, factions installed like 20 new skills for all the older classes and all the original ones will still be there.
maybe im just confused here....
oh and /not signed
anyway, i am wanting to maybe get into using an elem or mes in the factions game. well by reading a lot of stuff going on, when i create, lets say an elem, in Factions, as i play the factions game, will there be skills that i dont get that are only in prophecies campaign? i just thought that, factions installed like 20 new skills for all the older classes and all the original ones will still be there.
maybe im just confused here....
oh and /not signed
Hella Good
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
lets just keep adding core skills to the list.NEWSFLASH ALL somebody counted them up and we get the full advertised 300 NEW SKILLS PLUS A BONUS OF ABOUT 30 SKILLS NONE OF WHICH SEEM TO BE MONSTERS OF IMBALANCE and i will take izzys judgement of balance over yours anytime NOTE THOSE ARE EXTRA OVER AND ABOVE THE 300 NEW ONES |
CKaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
lets just keep adding core skills to the list.NEWSFLASH ALL somebody counted them up and we get the full advertised 300 NEW SKILLS PLUS A BONUS OF ABOUT 30 SKILLS NONE OF WHICH SEEM TO BE MONSTERS OF IMBALANCE and i will take izzys judgement of balance over yours anytime NOTE THOSE ARE EXTRA OVER AND ABOVE THE 300 NEW ONES the reason for the rename is specifically to allow both on the bar at the same time. as stated the small number of dupes were intended and since 2 skills with the same name cant be used at the same time they had to name change. |
And I'll take testing and gameplay over anyones comments on the matter here re: balance.
And for the record I'll take about anyones post or point before yours, anytime.
Back to my point though -
YOU DON'T NEED renames to have both on the same bar.
Allow a skill to have two instances then, or put a prime mark or a number.
How silly is it for fan sites to cross-link skill discussions now?
When they nerf/tweak a skill, keeping up with these...
This is just Chapter 1 and 2 now, the mess will increase as time goes on.
I'm even saying ok do this if you want (I don't like it and believe its lame but whatever).
But don't make it a mess to track down - get it right now.
Loviatar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CKaz
And for the record I'll take about anyones post or point before yours, anytime. . |
izzy seems to think it wont upset the balance so i go by him not you
Zexion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
Counter arguements are numerous but mainly: if they wanted us to be able to double skills more often, they could've just added one-two more echo-like skill; if they wanted the skills to be available to Factions only characters they could've just added them to core set.
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/not signed
_Zexion
Inari
Well, why not simply make the skills usable only in their respective campaign?
If they are indeed allow to put two identical skills in the skill bar, than it's rather stupid.
If that is the case, than I /sign. If its only skill names, as in lets say, use crystal wave on the prophecies map, and the new named skill in factions map, but NOT allowing both skills in the same toolbar, than /not signed.
If they are indeed allow to put two identical skills in the skill bar, than it's rather stupid.
If that is the case, than I /sign. If its only skill names, as in lets say, use crystal wave on the prophecies map, and the new named skill in factions map, but NOT allowing both skills in the same toolbar, than /not signed.
Yanman.be
the doubled skills might be overpowered: the R/N touch ranger is now nearly indestructible, using only 2 skills to dmg AND heal, and the rest can be stances and utility ( throw dirt, plague touch )
Yukito Kunisaki
Wait a second...
Is there are duped Exe. Strike?
W00H00!!!
Eviscerate, Exe. Strike x2, Swift Chop finisher!!!
W000HAH!!!!
Is there are duped Exe. Strike?
W00H00!!!
Eviscerate, Exe. Strike x2, Swift Chop finisher!!!
W000HAH!!!!
Kool Pajamas
At first I was a bit upset but if these really are bonus skills over top of the promised new ones then this is a really good thing.
CKaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
i made no comment about balance except that izzy (dev who does balance issues?) would be more able to judge than you are.
izzy seems to think it wont upset the balance so i go by him not you |
And that's fine.
As we all know nothing gets re-balanced over time through testing and time in GW
I'm not saying there wasn't consideration - I'm sure there was.
But yeah there's more than a few that seem off I'll be testing when it goes live.
I'm really not going to dig into it tho - a couple involve already (too) popular builds.
But that waits until release, and I wasn't really focusing on the balancing in the end.
I'll repost here what I had in another thread - random naming bites IMO.
Nightmare for fansites and those of us trying to keep up with everything.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CKaz
See here's the problem if you don't leverage core skills or come up with some kind of better way to do this - lets fast forward to chapter 8 and what might happen.
Ooh look here we have - Vampric Touch Vampric Bite Vampric Grope Vampric Squeeze Vampric Maul Vampric Slap Vampric Pinch Vampric Nibble All that do the exact same thing - and that's if your lucky. Why? Because it could be all over the place... Dodge Zojun's Haste (almost sounds like a IAS no?) Goober's Avoidance Morkil's GetoutofaJam Fangril's Quickness The Artful Dodger Avoidance Tennis's Elbow Thus it's make more sense to at least start naming smart now if you're NOT going to leverage these as core, which I think would be a mistake. Or name it the same skill, but if it was intended, the skill itself can be placed more than once on a bar, which would be pointed out somewhere/somehow, maybe the description itself. |
Chadatog
I really don't understand all the griping. None of the skills are exact copies of another. Heck, V touch and V bite are in two completely different atibute lines. They are just similar skills with the same skill wording. The #'s affected by skill points, the atribute itself, the casting cost, the casting time, and the recharge all vary. Yes it gives you the same ability but they are not exactily the same.
EDIT: Actually I was compairing the stats of vile touch and vamperic bite rather than vamperic touch. Should of checked it twice.
EDIT: Actually I was compairing the stats of vile touch and vamperic bite rather than vamperic touch. Should of checked it twice.