Get rid of doubled skills (petition) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

viper008

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

27 Mar 2006 at 20:53 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadatog

I really don't understand all the griping. None of the skills are exact copies of another. Heck, V touch and V bite are in two completely different atibute lines. They are just similar skills with the same skill wording. The #'s affected by skill points, the atribute itself, the casting cost, the casting time, and the recharge all vary. Yes it gives you the same ability but they are not exactily the same.

Quoted for the truth

Lt.Crumpet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

Michigan

R/

27 Mar 2006 at 21:37 - 82

[QUOTE=CKaz]And that's fine.
As we all know nothing gets re-balanced over time through testing and time in GW

QUOTE]

yes, because all those nerfs werent rebalances. please think, honestly.

/notsigned

most of the duped skills are pretty basic skills. if they took them OUT of factions, the game WOULD be unbalanced twards factions only people.

and for the people that are so geeked out over the duped skils: they are the same, and twice on your skillbar. that makes you TWICE AS VULNERABLE to any given counter. 2 exectutioners on ur bar? oh look, thats 1 less energy skill and you just got ur ass handed to you by a soothing images/anyattackslower/lots of other skills.

comon guys, stop ur whining. this is needed. learn to cope.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

27 Mar 2006 at 21:59 - 83

why not just Buy both games then everyone has it... Oh that's right you would rather get something for nothing yet again... go back to wasting your life farming gold to be sold on e-bay and hopefully eventually banned for life from the servers, and leave the gaming to the people that Play the game and support it by Buying the chapters... After the past 50 of 72 hrs I spent playing the Factions Preview all I can say is it is a fantastic Addition to the gaming world. It has something for everyone. and the people bitching are the ones that have been exploiting the game for ages... Hopefully very soon those people will be long EXTINCT from Cantha and banished to the Tyrian lands. This allows for new blood to populate both lands and Punishes those unwilling to support a continued development of the story. If you are like the majority and purchase all the chapters then you are equal to all those that do the same. if you do not. well then too bad... I guess you don't get everything now do you? Both games have unique Elite skills. you only get 1 of them in your character build. both games have a few unique core skills. some of these uniques can be considered equivalent skills if you have both chapters, and potentially used together. So what? that just means you have less of something else if you foolishly double up on something. IN some cases the double up skills are not all that great. in others they are fantastic. especially running... Now ANYONE can do it. literally.. ANYONE. so no need to waste gold on buying a run from a person. just do it yourself. Oh and for you worthless farmers... yes Anet has graced you with a multitude of gifts as well. Not the least of which is a more powerful invincimonk build then has ever been seen before... so yes there is something for everyone... And now OMG People actually have to reconsider some stale and over used builds and try something new??? OMG the end of the world as we know it!!!

So let it be written... So let it be done.

/not signed..

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

27 Mar 2006 at 22:38 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

OMG the end of the world as we know it!!!

So let it be written... So let it be done.

/not signed..

not quite.

the true end will be when playing for fun is the reason to play

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

27 Mar 2006 at 22:46 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

If you don't have factions you're at severely large disadvantage for any form of competition anyway (no eviscerate, no dwaynas kiss to name a few) - double skills or no double skills won't change that at all. This idea is stupid, totally not signed

Yea I have to agree with that.

TopGun

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

27 Mar 2006 at 22:50 - 86

Adding another echo wouldn't provide you with the advantage double skills give you, because you need to cast echo first, which takes time and mana, on top of the mana you need for the skill. Doubles are fine; leave them.

On the other hand, this is just a way for ANet to say, "xxx more skills! Buy the expansion!" Yay advertising.

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

27 Mar 2006 at 23:00 - 87

Gaile has even mention that only "select" skills will get duplicated (ingame chat) and if you see some, send them to tech support (implying some got duplicated that weren't suppose to).

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

28 Mar 2006 at 02:28 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadatog

I really don't understand all the griping. None of the skills are exact copies of another. Heck, V touch and V bite are in two completely different atibute lines. They are just similar skills with the same skill wording. The #'s affected by skill points, the atribute itself, the casting cost, the casting time, and the recharge all vary. Yes it gives you the same ability but they are not exactily the same.

The skills are EXACTLY and PRECISELY the same. And they are in the same attribute line... I don't know what it is u're smoking but I want some of that stuff.

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

28 Mar 2006 at 02:57 - 89

I hope that everyone understands here that the duplicated skills are *in addition* to the 300 unique skills that ANet has drummed up. Gaile confirmed them as a "kind of bonus."

They're not some Cop-Out that will detract. They're there in case you want to double up on a few skills... her words.

I don't really see the problem. It's not like they doubled up skills that will be completely and awfullly broken. On the contrary I'm sure some pretty interesting - but not broken - builds will come of it.

So what's everyone complaining about? You're still getting more than you paid for, and if you get Factions and already have Prophecies, you're just as well off as the next guy.

"OMG TWO ARCANE THEVERIES HURR HURR BROKEDED THE SKILLS SET ANET SUCKZ"

Lolz. Not at all.

SisterMercy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Sisters of Mercy

28 Mar 2006 at 03:07 - 90

You know, I saw a lot of similar skills, but no real identical ones. Each of the "duplicates" had some different nuances to them. But the fact of the matter is that we still have 8 skill slots. If we want to use 2 of them on similar skills, that limits the versatility of our characters. Otherwise, we can use the skill that has the preferable consequences (sacrifice if any, cost, recharge, etc) -- which is the advantage of owning both games.

However, there are some excellent innovative skills (Animate Flesh Golem), and some that may or may not need to be adjusted before they will be great (a possibly overpowered Churning Earth?).

I say the above with a tiny bit of disappointment, in that I have to wonder what happens when expansions 3, 4 and 5 come out. But before bashing Anet, look hard at how much can really be done in both a balanced PvE and balanced PvP situation, and let's see if we can come up with stronger but balanced ideas. I'm not saying that there aren't any, but that we need to respect where they're coming from.

So let's get back to the OP's intent and see those good balanced ideas. And I'm not talking about the legendary Restore Party:

Quote:

Restore Party: Cost: 5
Cast: 1/4 sec
Recharge: 10 sec.
Attribute: Tactics.
Description: Restore all members of your party to full health and energy, and create a 5 second shield against all melee, hexes and spells.

Dragonheart

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Make Ole Na Hoa Alii Kaua [LoNo]

R/

28 Mar 2006 at 03:11 - 91

/definitly not signed

factions is a stand alone game, so think about the ppl that only have factions

Samueldg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Colorado

N/Mo

28 Mar 2006 at 03:12 - 92

hmm so I can have veritas up constantly on my Minions... instead of having a 9 second window between recharge and expired duration...
hmm

NOT SIGNED

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

28 Mar 2006 at 03:51 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterMercy

You know, I saw a lot of similar skills, but no real identical ones. Each of the "duplicates" had some different nuances to them. But the fact of the matter is that we still have 8 skill slots. If we want to use 2 of them on similar skills, that limits the versatility of our characters. Otherwise, we can use the skill that has the preferable consequences (sacrifice if any, cost, recharge, etc) -- which is the advantage of owning both games.

However, there are some excellent innovative skills (Animate Flesh Golem), and some that may or may not need to be adjusted before they will be great (a possibly overpowered Churning Earth?).

I say the above with a tiny bit of disappointment, in that I have to wonder what happens when expansions 3, 4 and 5 come out. But before bashing Anet, look hard at how much can really be done in both a balanced PvE and balanced PvP situation, and let's see if we can come up with stronger but balanced ideas. I'm not saying that there aren't any, but that we need to respect where they're coming from.

So let's get back to the OP's intent and see those good balanced ideas. And I'm not talking about the legendary Restore Party:

I suggested earlier to make Revealed Hex and Revealed Enchantment as follows:

Revealed Hex: 5 nrg, 1 cast, 12 recharge

Shorten the duration of a hex on target ally by X% (I think I suggested a cap of 66%), gain Y% more energy than equal level Inspired Hex.

Revealed Enchantment: 10 nrg, 1 cast, 12 recharge

Shorten the duration of an enchantment on target foe by X%, gain Y% more energy than equal level Inspired Enchantment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samueldg

hmm so I can have veritas up constantly on my Minions... instead of having a 9 second window between recharge and expired duration...
hmm

NOT SIGNED

There isn't a double for Verata's Sac....

Rebirther

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

England, UK

Clan Dethryche

Mo/Me

28 Mar 2006 at 03:56 - 94

Provides an interesting edge to builds, adds potential, spices you pvp. having a replica of an existing skill will provide advantages as well as disadvantages.

/Not Signed

Thom

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2005

28 Mar 2006 at 07:56 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

My only complaint is that many of the skills chosen to duplicate do not provide much added flexibility. It feels like they were chosen as skills that were 'safe' to duplicate, most of the ones they duplicated are either bad skills, or ones that aren't really limited by their recharges. So while there are a few cute things like double IHex, in general my response to the duped skills is 'if I thought these were any good before I would have used them when I only had one copy.'

I.E., I feel somewhat cheated by the dupes, because a new skill, even if it's terrible, is at least a new option. Giving us another copy of a non-impact skill just waters down the skill pool, it doesn't expand it at all.

Peace,
-CxE

I see the cop out argument, but I'm not ready to jump on the band wagon.

Two situations can justify this as a viable competitive direction of exploration:
1)Often you are already looking for skills with similar function. Having to skills with the exact same function can keep you in the same attribute line or profession creating a synergy. Inspire hex is firmly in this catagory possibly with some enchant removals.

2)Multiple copies of a skill can create a synergy you can build around. Arcane Theivery gets more intersting when you can steal a 4th of someones bar and if done correctly throw those skills back in the opponents face. One copy of theivery and the one thing is a bit stupid, but now one character can steal 2 skills (up to 4 with echos) so the idea of relying on recasting stolen spells is interesting. Similar arguments have been made for Vamp Touch.

Now sometimes multiple copies of crap is just a dung heap. A quarter of your skill bar devoted to multiple copies of a mediocre skill is normally painful. Dodge will remain mediocre no matter what they call it. The odds of creating a certain level of synergy with identical game text is good, but the minor synergy bonus is not normally enough to make a bad skill worth considering,

While it would be fun to see Anet take more risks, multiple copies of any competitive skill easily enters into the realm of broken. In testing you could use multiple copies of and some of the longer regen attacks were abused.

Anyone have a complete list of Dups? It would be nice to have for reference.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

28 Mar 2006 at 08:00 - 96

I disagree with your small minded and shortsighted petition, and would rather have the flexibility and new options of duplicate skills.

... also... quit making "petitions". I hate having to say "/notsigned". It's annoyingly apathetic.

I just wish they had chosen a couple better duplicates... Like... not Tigers Fury.

allience

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/Me

28 Mar 2006 at 08:43 - 97

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills! wvwn if it's good or bad skills, it's just cheap from anet's part. i mean why the hell didn't they make up a slightly different skill, like different recharge time or anything for the factions~!?

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

who the hell would use 2 heal other, or 2 divine healing... some dupes from other classes are more usefull for strategic play, but it still sux. a different skill would of been much more appreciated.

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

28 Mar 2006 at 11:56 - 98

/not signed

Relnor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

28 Mar 2006 at 12:17 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills! wvwn if it's good or bad skills, it's just cheap from anet's part. i mean why the hell didn't they make up a slightly different skill, like different recharge time or anything for the factions~!?

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

who the hell would use 2 heal other, or 2 divine healing... some dupes from other classes are more usefull for strategic play, but it still sux. a different skill would of been much more appreciated.

I love when people post with out reading any of the arguments...this has been discussed before...

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

I hope that everyone understands here that the duplicated skills are *in addition* to the 300 unique skills that ANet has drummed up. Gaile confirmed them as a "kind of bonus."

They're not some Cop-Out that will detract. They're there in case you want to double up on a few skills... her words.

I don't really see the problem. It's not like they doubled up skills that will be completely and awfullly broken. On the contrary I'm sure some pretty interesting - but not broken - builds will come of it.

So what's everyone complaining about? You're still getting more than you paid for, and if you get Factions and already have Prophecies, you're just as well off as the next guy.

"OMG TWO ARCANE THEVERIES HURR HURR BROKEDED THE SKILLS SET ANET SUCKZ"

Lolz. Not at all.

/not signed because I have yet to see an argument for this not get shot down

Nightwish

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

28 Mar 2006 at 13:33 - 100

I do not consider the skill duplication a cheap nor uncreative move on Anet's part.

However, for me, the duplicate skills just distort the unique skill set image in my mind. I have always like the idea of 8 different skills on everyone's skillbar.

The longer recharge than duration for Echo/Arcane Echo, imo, is to apply a slight penalty for having a duplicate skill on our skillbar, which seems fair enough to me. Now the skill duplication seems to eliminate that "catch".

At the moment, the skill duplication is just for a few, so I will stand on the fence for now.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

28 Mar 2006 at 16:56 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills!

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

it is a shame i have to be polite to an i............

IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY ACTUAL COUNT BY SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT YOU GOT YOUR FULL 300 NEW SKILLS

IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT THERE ARE AN ADDITIONAL 5 SKILLS (5) PER PROFESSION IN ADDITION TO THE 300.

CLEAR YET?

330 SKILLS INCLUDING THE PROMISED NEW 300

Theos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

River Dancing

Eternal Treachery [TimE]

Me/E

28 Mar 2006 at 18:45 - 102

I swear some people are blinder than bats... hell I'd wager a stone is capable of better reasoning then they are.

You have not been jiped on anything, if you think that you were you have the cognitive function of an infant that thinks it is unfair to not recieve all the attention in the world. You have been given 300 new skills, yes NEW, not old but NEW! See that NEW! Then they went ahead and gave us, or atleast those of us with the capability to think for ourselves, skill copies which finally give people the versitality of running something other than /Me for Echo/Arcane.

Yes, let us make them remove the doubled skills. That way we will get those same 300 new skills with nothing else! How brilliant. You people are greedy idiots who cheat yourselves.

Dragonblood

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Followers of Master Jack [FOMJ]

N/Rt

28 Mar 2006 at 19:22 - 103

I find it funny that some people don't understand that the "clone/duplicate" skills are there for players/gamers that don't own GW: Prophecies. I mean think of it, it's only 5 "clone/duplicate" skills for each class. OH NO!!! That's 10 in both your primary & secondary. But do some undestand that you don't have to buy the "clone/duplicate". NO!! But for someone that doesn't own GW: Prophecies, that all the skills are new to them.

Plus I got a feeling that when ch.3 comes out(sometime this fall/winter), that we may not see "clone/duplicate" . Why you may ask....well think of it this way. Anet will know that 50% of the gamers/players will own both GW: Prophecies & Faction, an 50% will own Faction itself. That mean's that Anet may not make "clone/duplicate". But if they do, that be then just be silly. And that I hope by ch.3 they don't "clone/duplicate".

But I'm fine with "clone/duplicate" skills, because I understand, that not alot of gamers/players will own both GW: Prophecies & Faction. And that's the point Anet is trying to make. Plus they told us along time ago that some skills will be "clone/duplicate".

To understand or not, that's up to the person. But for the love of god, undestand.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

28 Mar 2006 at 19:32 - 104

I find it funny people don't understand that if they wanted to give em those skills, they could've just included them as BONUS skills for Factions users (AND kept them off the Core skill list, if they didn't want them in there).

The only viable reason then is adding strategic depth to the game, which is in, in my personal opinion, not substantially grounded. Again, for spells like Divine Healing or EQ... fine... they have huge recharge... but Vamp Touch, Touch of Agony... they have 2-3 sec recharge ffs... All it did is make Touch rangers EXTREMELY strong (they can just spam those 2 skills with pumped up Expertise and kill you in like no time...). Have you ever been chain Vamp Touch/Bite hit? Well, if you have and I have, AND I have done the build myself, you will understand how this is pushing the balance of things.

Dragonblood

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Followers of Master Jack [FOMJ]

N/Rt

28 Mar 2006 at 19:41 - 105

Do you not think that by the time Faction comes out, that Anet may not allow you the put both "clone/duplicate" skills your skillbar? Why...because that would be classed as spamming a skill/spell. Just because FPE they allowed it doesn't mean that when Faction comes out they will allow it.

It will only take a update/patch to fix that problem.

boxterduke

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Walking the ruins of Ascalon

DVDF

Me/

28 Mar 2006 at 19:54 - 106

/not signed.
and you should know by now that internet petitions do not lead anywhere.

Thom

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2005

29 Mar 2006 at 01:57 - 107

The purpose of designed skills is very clear. Take underused skills and make them more viable by creating two copies of the same skill. This was done specifically so that the skills can be used together. If touch rangers replace eviserate warriors, come back to watch me eat crow; I doubt you have to worry about balance with these types of skills.

Do we have a full list yet?

Rey Lentless

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

29 Mar 2006 at 02:25 - 108

The fact that these are skills that are in Addition to the 300 new ones eliminates any concern from me.

My worry was that these were put in as part of the 300 as basically 'we couldn't think of any more'. And over the long run, we'd end up with copies of everything or multiple copies of some.. and that worried me. Since they are bonus skills, I don't worry about a lack of creativity causing an imbalance.

It's new stuff they can put in at their discretion and retain balance.. as opposed to being part of some new skill goal they're trying to reach put in because of deadlines and considered 'safe' because they're on less used skills.

I think it's a good idea now and have already seen the benefits of these replicates. It may have been borrowed from magic the gathering, but it's still a good idea.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

29 Mar 2006 at 03:10 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

The purpose of designed skills is very clear. Take underused skills and make them more viable by creating two copies of the same skill. This was done specifically so that the skills can be used together. If touch rangers replace eviserate warriors, come back to watch me eat crow; I doubt you have to worry about balance with these types of skills.

Do we have a full list yet?

I wouldn't say the skills are underused... I think they made it clear how they handle underused skills (*hint* Ineptitude, Unholy Feast *hint*). It's not about underused...

As for the skills, I can tell you the Monk, Necro and Mesmer ones. Some1 can fill in the other 3 professions:

Monk:
- Divine Healing - Heaven's Delight
- Heal Other - Jamei's Gaze
- Heal Area - Karei's Healing Circle
- Symbol of Wrath - Kirin's Wrath
- Holy Strike - Stonesoul Strike

Necro:
- Shadow Strike - Lifebane Strike
- Vamp Touch - Vamp Bite
- Touch of Agony - Wallow's Bite
- Desecrate Enchantments - Defile Enchantments
- Spinal Shivers - Shivers of Dread

Mesmer:
- Arcane Thievery - Arcane Larceny
- Sympathetic Visage - Ancestror's Visage
- Ethereal Burden - Kitah's Burden
- Inspired Enchantment - Revealed Enchantment
- Inspired Hex - Revealed Hex

As you can see some very frequently used skills here. Very...

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

/not signed.
and you should know by now that internet petitions do not lead anywhere.

I actually didn't mean it as a petition per se, it was more like take side on the issue type of thing. But it's fine anyway you wanna view it/call it.

Grammar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

29 Mar 2006 at 03:25 - 110

Quote:

As for the skills, I can tell you the Monk, Necro and Mesmer ones. Some1 can fill in the other 3 professions:

Monk:
- Divine Healing - Heaven's Delight
- Heal Other - Jamei's Gaze
- Heal Area - Karei's Healing Circle
- Symbol of Wrath - Kirin's Wrath
- Holy Strike - Stonesoul Strike

Necro:
- Shadow Strike - Lifebane Strike
- Vamp Touch - Vamp Bite
- Touch of Agony - Wallow's Bite
- Desecrate Enchantments - Defile Enchantments
- Spinal Shivers - Shivers of Dread

Mesmer:
- Arcane Thievery - Arcane Larceny
- Sympathetic Visage - Ancestror's Visage
- Ethereal Burden - Kitah's Burden
- Inspired Enchantment - Revealed Enchantment
- Inspired Hex - Revealed Hex

NOW we're getting somewhere.
This thread needs less arguing and more information.
Anyone know the dupes for the other classes?

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

29 Mar 2006 at 03:29 - 111

Beastial Fury - Tiger's Fury

thats all i remember o.o

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

29 Mar 2006 at 03:53 - 112

Ranger:
- Tiger's Fury - Beastial Fury (thx lyra)
- Beastial Pounce - Savage Pounce
- Dodge - Zojun's Haste
- Point Blank Shot - Zojun's Shot
I'm missing one

Ele:
- Wirlwind - Tenai's Wind
- Searing Heat - Tenai's Heat
- Earthquake - Dragon's Stomp
- Crystal Wave - Tenai's Crystals
- Ice Prison - Tenai's Prison

Warrior:
I know there is a hammer double not sure which
- Penetrating Blow - Penetrating Chop
- Griffon's Sweep - Leviatan's Sweep
- Pure Strike - Jaizhenju Strike
- Desperation Blow - Drunken Blow

CKaz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Mar 2006 at 04:15 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

The only viable reason then is adding strategic depth to the game, which is in, in my personal opinion, not substantially grounded. Again, for spells like Divine Healing or EQ... fine... they have huge recharge... but Vamp Touch, Touch of Agony... they have 2-3 sec recharge ffs... All it did is make Touch rangers EXTREMELY strong (they can just spam those 2 skills with pumped up Expertise and kill you in like no time...). Have you ever been chain Vamp Touch/Bite hit? Well, if you have and I have, AND I have done the build myself, you will understand how this is pushing the balance of things.

Yup that's certainly one glaring thing that struck me as well, we're on the same page. I'm not sure things were really thought out, tested, and there just seems to be better ways than 'offering up the same card in a different set or deck' where here it's just renamed and a different chapter. And you have to link accounts and lose slots to play with both 'decks'.

For those not keeping up at home I'll toss one out quick - R/N blood build
(expertise, blood)
literally spam (but intermixing these so sac and leach) -
touch of agony
wallow's bite [dupes above]
vampric touch
vampric bite [dupes above]

these already had low recharges (made better by ANet over time actually) so guess what?
see low recharges (remember vampric touch was lowered) kinda doesnt need duplicate skills - that's one thing we already had instead of having renamed same skills taking more slots to do the same thing.

so the above will run out of energy, but I only put in 4 skills
you have options, and keep in mind your costs were greatly expertise reduced
I'll leave flushing out the build to you - seems ANet wants you to try it

and that's certainly not all that comes to mind.

I think given all the flexibility with skills they could have added strategic depth to the game without renamed same skills. But if that is the way we're going I'd like to at least be consistent in naming or implementation and not need a roadmap over all the chapters to connect the renamed dots (like have it simply be a factor of the original skill where you can gain more instances of its use as you progress/as applicable). But that's me.

CKaz

Tric

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Sweden

Mo/E

29 Mar 2006 at 08:20 - 114

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

29 Mar 2006 at 08:45 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

No, the new professions have 75 new skills, the others recieve 25 new skills. That has been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again already. The current duplicates are bonus skills, five added to the original new 25 skills.

Lord Cooper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Black Death Knights

E/

29 Mar 2006 at 09:03 - 116

i for one hope they keep the duped skills. just imagine the fun a geotank is going to have.. duped crystal wave means i can drop obsidian flame (no exhaustion) silver armour means i can drop armour of earth (no slowdown and dmg output) theres also a skill that stops knockdowns in the earth line i think but cant remeber what its called.. now i wont have to go warrior 2ndary for balanced stance. i can keep pure earth and energy storage and max them out

farming just got easier

Amok

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

29 Mar 2006 at 09:07 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

I'm starting to think a very large number of complaints are coming from people who still cannot grasp the fact that these duplicate skills are IN ADDITION to the 300 new skills.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

29 Mar 2006 at 09:27 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amok

I'm starting to think a very large number of complaints are coming from people who still cannot grasp the fact that these duplicate skills are IN ADDITION to the 300 new skills.

There's also something VERY wrong here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

Who told you that?

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

29 Mar 2006 at 09:56 - 119

Okay,

I think its quite important to clear this up before anyone signs this.

Is it true, that the duplicate skills are in _addition_ to the "25 new skills for existing proffesions" ?

If this IS the case then yes, I cant see it being a problem.. nothing lost, something gained.

However if they are INCLUDED in the "new existing proffesion" skills then it is of serious concern.

I know ALOT of elementalists who feel that their new skills does nothing for their proffesion, if these 25 new skills includes 5 identical skills then I would personally feel very robbed.

so I think that should be cleared up before anyone signs anything.

Raif

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Ireland

N/W

29 Mar 2006 at 10:34 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

If you don't like them you don't have to buy them from the skill trader. I personally love the idea.

agreed