12v12 needs to be reworked

This was a nice idea in theory but the flaws are too deep. If this is really suppose to competative pvp arena it should not be random. Your success depends on complete strangers that most likely do not understand positioning.

I understand its random to make sure the top teams do not dominate it completely but that's really not needed. The top teams dominate gvg but does that stop people from gvging? No it doesn't.

The random team matching needs to be removed. Personally I will not be doing this at all if stays random. Its going to turn into a grind fest to gain "merchant favor." There is going to no strategy because you cannot communicate to 2 other teams in game and battle at the same time through GW. Voice chat is the only option and that is thrown out the window with random.

I'm in favor of removing the random. Even if the top guilds align they will be split between 2 factions. It doesn't matter if they win alot because multiple instances of matches are going on at one time.

Yeah i understand where your coming from cause in 12 vs 12 you have people not following instructions and doing what ever they want cause it is random but if anet was to rework this and make it not be random you would start to have builds such as 12 man iway and 12 man ranger spike which would be way too powerful.

/not signed

I don't want to see another HA get born. "LFP for IWAY/ViM/Balanced/whatever, r3+!!!". I believe this is random so people will have an equal chance. Since it's random, you could end up in a horrible group, but you could also end up in a terrific group while the others get a horrible one. This is the most fair way to do it and also, imagine Sir Coversman deciding to leave HA and go for the competive arenas instead, all fighting for one side. And incidently, a couple other high-end PvP guilds pick the same side. They would easily conquer the map.

You have to control the map not just one alter. If you stay a group and move from alter to alter you won't win. You have to split up so those kind of builds in the end would not be viable at all.

Personally, I enjoy just being able to jump in and play, win or lose, rather than sit around for an hour typing "LFG" and begging to get on a team, then getting bossed around and talked down too by wannabe napoleons named "Ashet Mudwaws" and "U sUxxOrz"... fwiw.

actually I would think the more guys you add the more powerfull Pressure becomes, not Spike.

Spike is basically a small unit tactic. If you were running 50 guys to a side you would find that the more guys you add the less coordination you have, and the less overall control you can maintain.

Generals have been finding this out for centuries, and their memoirs are full of "things were so much easier back when I was just a company commander, and my guys actually did what I told them to do".

From all the hype Anet spouted, I really was hoping for some sort of large scale battlefront, and this is what we get. I suggest it be left alone. I don't see any way of realisticaly fixing it, there is no chance of getting that battlefront I wanted (and in truth it may not even be possible given GW's instanced core), and that only leaves 2 options I can see.

If they take your suggestion, it simply becomes a larger playground for guilds. Not so much better guilds, as even crap ones could find 4 guys to go in. But it leaves solo players out in the cold. You already have one of those, as well as GvG and HoH. Adding this one doesn't give you anything of value.

Leaving it as is doesn't add much if anything to the game, but neither does changing it. Honestly, Anet could have implemented a 1 vs. 1 arena and made 50 times more people happy than any of this random nonsence ever will. At least then the people who are desperate to go solo that other war over there could have some place all their own and not need to much up the other PvP areas.

Obviously, I was just listing examples. It would just be a matter of time though until 12-man builds would be commonly known, and at that time, no one but ranked players would be able to play there, kinda like HA is now.

If you want to play organized, stick to GvG, HA or TA. There are no random arenas of more than 4 player teams as of now, so random arenas have priority IMO. And who knows, they might add a 12vs12 arena for organized teams aswell.

I think they should have two different versions of 12 v 12. The first the one they have implemented in factions. The second should be one were you organize parties of 12 and fight other organized parties of 12. I like how you can jump in whenever you want, but it would be fun to have an organized guild group do this vs another organized guild group.

Soloing is for pve not pvp.

1vs1 matches wouldn't work because of the paper, rock, scissors game GW is.

1 proffession would beat another and so on a so forth. That would all come down to what profession you are playing against. You could just go mes and own them all

Besides there would be stalemate matches and that is no fun either.

The maps are so big that a 12vs12 cordinated builds would work fine. The map is too big to everywhere at once and the alter capping strat reqs more people at the location to take over the alter. We cannot access alliances yet so that may be what they are for. I just know if it stays the same it will add nothing to the game and be a dead arena within no time.

All the PvP arenas need to be rethought. The PvEers just don't have enough experience to either want to do them, or leave halfway through because their side is loosing. The balance issue with the Alliance battles is horrible. Once a side gains control of the majority of the points, the other side doesn't have a chance, so the rest of the battle is pointless, and more players start to leave. I just wasted five minutes running around because the other team captured all the points, so there was nothing my team could do except hide in our base - five minutes waiting for them to get to 500 points. That's idiotic.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

/not signed

I'm sorry, I USED to like HoH but it turned into this +3r bull----. Have to make this uber build which I don't like just to play. Standing around for 2 hours finding a group that isn't IWAY for something. Same thing will happen to 12 v 12 if it turns into groups. This way I can just hop in, press enter mission, play a little and leave without having to resort to 4 v 4 random arena.

Yeah, you cant communicate because it's random. Well guess what? Same goes for the other team. If you really wanna communicate get 3 of your friends and create an assault group with ventrilo or whatever, then create a group. But don't ruin casual people's fun just to be "hardcore".

I don't mind some randomness in the Alliance battles, but I do mind that one can only put 3x4 teams together. I think it would be better to have any number of people up to 12 go in as a unit. I know my guild feels that way, and others I've talked with do as well.

I don't know if all of you people are bad at it or what.

Are you even TRYING to communicate with the rest of your team? Or do you just write that possibility off and do your own thing?

I've found that if you talk to your teammates, and you make it seem like you know what you're doing, they tend to listen. Not all the time, granted, but more often than not, that's the case. Talk to them. Say "you you and you, go to the left, take the waterfall; you you and you, go to the right, take the shipwreck". It CAN and DOES work.

Also, as someone noted, you can go in with three friends and act as a squad--four people out of 12 who know what they're doing is not a small fraction.

And comebacks are indeed possible. Granted, once you start losing, it's hard to keep from losing further, but you can come back from controlling 1 point and being over 100 points behind. I just did it not a half hour ago.

It's only been three days. Give it time.

12v12 should stay random...even me a PvE only person enjoyed the random chaos of this, i had fun owning with SS when everyone was bunched around 1 alter if this turns into organized PvP then fame farming will rule...

I think the 3 random groups of 4 is a good way to allow guilds to group together without having super groups that demolish everything (which is what you will get if you let 12 guildmates on a team - every game a steamroll one way or the other)

IMO all they need to do is:
-Punish leavers. Screw the (terrible) "there could be legitimate reasons for leaving early" argument. I don't care, and in my experience players are willing to put up with a false positive now and then if it indicates that the developers are making an active effort to improve their playing experience.
-End the game if all seven points are captured by one team for a reasonable time, say 60 seconds. I've never seen a comeback from this and it seems like it would be extremely unlikely, since with all those points you have all the bonuses they imply, the enemy always spawns in their base so you know where they're coming from, and it always ends up being the winning team camping the base for 10+ minutes while they wait for their score to go up.

Dude, if you're a bad team leader, work on your skills. Use the compass it might actually be there for a reason to draw and ping on!

Yeah I'm sure you'd love yet another arena to be taken over by Iway and Spiking to make it the dumbest experience for the average gamer or those who just want to have random fun. I hate HA because of the ridiculous builds that go on in there. Here it is so much more fair. You have a chance to form a party of 4, deal with it. Be thankful you can at least do that. If 4 guys work together, that alone should be enough to take over some bases.

If they make this into another HA type thing, I'm not doing it. It would take forever to form groups and Spike will just get even worse. Ughhh, the thought makes me shiver..

/not signed (should not even be considered)

I slap you with a Kai Den's "Signet of Major Disapproval".
/not signed

If you make 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles not "random", you will deny many people the chance to have fun.

I don't want to see another version of "Heroes Ascent", anywhere, ever, again.

/not signed

as many people above me already said, 12v12 is nice because of its randomness. one doesnt have to make up a group build which often takes hours, just hop in and have fun. organised group play should stay in the HoH and not on the 12v12 battleground where everything is a bit of a mess, and thats just the beauty of it. if you want to organise a bit, just make up a little group of 4 and try to defend one altar...

i like to imagine the 12v12 battles like battlefield2 where you try to gain control over access points with a bunch of undisciplined computer geeks.

finally the casual PvP player gets to play some PvP without being discriminated. just hop in and have fun without those "ub0r leet we 0wn j00 all" builds, which are just another lame copy of another copied successful build posted on another forum.

I love Battlefield 2. Play it everyday on Xbox Live I also thought the 2 were very similar, except for the fact that you don't have... Well, actually, you do have tanks, and the Helicopters are the Dragons, and the Marines with guns are the Rangers.

/Not signed too.

Alliance battles are for EVERYONE. Not just for the "elite" The randomness is totally appropriate. It is afterall, supposed to be a war right?

The only problem are the quitters, and there's been many many posts about that problem and hopefully that problem gets fixed.

The randomness is not the problem, the quitting is. Inexperienced players on your team? So what? Go play team arenas or GvG if you can't deal with "noobs" That's what they are there for. The Alliance battles are not meant to be like HoH or GvG.