This was a nice idea in theory but the flaws are too deep. If this is really suppose to competative pvp arena it should not be random. Your success depends on complete strangers that most likely do not understand positioning.
I understand its random to make sure the top teams do not dominate it completely but that's really not needed. The top teams dominate gvg but does that stop people from gvging? No it doesn't.
The random team matching needs to be removed. Personally I will not be doing this at all if stays random. Its going to turn into a grind fest to gain "merchant favor." There is going to no strategy because you cannot communicate to 2 other teams in game and battle at the same time through GW. Voice chat is the only option and that is thrown out the window with random.
I'm in favor of removing the random. Even if the top guilds align they will be split between 2 factions. It doesn't matter if they win alot because multiple instances of matches are going on at one time.
12v12 needs to be reworked
twicky_kid
deathdela
Yeah i understand where your coming from cause in 12 vs 12 you have people not following instructions and doing what ever they want cause it is random but if anet was to rework this and make it not be random you would start to have builds such as 12 man iway and 12 man ranger spike which would be way too powerful.
Joh
/not signed
I don't want to see another HA get born. "LFP for IWAY/ViM/Balanced/whatever, r3+!!!". I believe this is random so people will have an equal chance. Since it's random, you could end up in a horrible group, but you could also end up in a terrific group while the others get a horrible one. This is the most fair way to do it and also, imagine Sir Coversman deciding to leave HA and go for the competive arenas instead, all fighting for one side. And incidently, a couple other high-end PvP guilds pick the same side. They would easily conquer the map.
I don't want to see another HA get born. "LFP for IWAY/ViM/Balanced/whatever, r3+!!!". I believe this is random so people will have an equal chance. Since it's random, you could end up in a horrible group, but you could also end up in a terrific group while the others get a horrible one. This is the most fair way to do it and also, imagine Sir Coversman deciding to leave HA and go for the competive arenas instead, all fighting for one side. And incidently, a couple other high-end PvP guilds pick the same side. They would easily conquer the map.
twicky_kid
You have to control the map not just one alter. If you stay a group and move from alter to alter you won't win. You have to split up so those kind of builds in the end would not be viable at all.
Kali Ma
Personally, I enjoy just being able to jump in and play, win or lose, rather than sit around for an hour typing "LFG" and begging to get on a team, then getting bossed around and talked down too by wannabe napoleons named "Ashet Mudwaws" and "U sUxxOrz"... fwiw.
Sayshina
actually I would think the more guys you add the more powerfull Pressure becomes, not Spike.
Spike is basically a small unit tactic. If you were running 50 guys to a side you would find that the more guys you add the less coordination you have, and the less overall control you can maintain.
Generals have been finding this out for centuries, and their memoirs are full of "things were so much easier back when I was just a company commander, and my guys actually did what I told them to do".
From all the hype Anet spouted, I really was hoping for some sort of large scale battlefront, and this is what we get. I suggest it be left alone. I don't see any way of realisticaly fixing it, there is no chance of getting that battlefront I wanted (and in truth it may not even be possible given GW's instanced core), and that only leaves 2 options I can see.
If they take your suggestion, it simply becomes a larger playground for guilds. Not so much better guilds, as even crap ones could find 4 guys to go in. But it leaves solo players out in the cold. You already have one of those, as well as GvG and HoH. Adding this one doesn't give you anything of value.
Leaving it as is doesn't add much if anything to the game, but neither does changing it. Honestly, Anet could have implemented a 1 vs. 1 arena and made 50 times more people happy than any of this random nonsence ever will. At least then the people who are desperate to go solo that other war over there could have some place all their own and not need to much up the other PvP areas.
Spike is basically a small unit tactic. If you were running 50 guys to a side you would find that the more guys you add the less coordination you have, and the less overall control you can maintain.
Generals have been finding this out for centuries, and their memoirs are full of "things were so much easier back when I was just a company commander, and my guys actually did what I told them to do".
From all the hype Anet spouted, I really was hoping for some sort of large scale battlefront, and this is what we get. I suggest it be left alone. I don't see any way of realisticaly fixing it, there is no chance of getting that battlefront I wanted (and in truth it may not even be possible given GW's instanced core), and that only leaves 2 options I can see.
If they take your suggestion, it simply becomes a larger playground for guilds. Not so much better guilds, as even crap ones could find 4 guys to go in. But it leaves solo players out in the cold. You already have one of those, as well as GvG and HoH. Adding this one doesn't give you anything of value.
Leaving it as is doesn't add much if anything to the game, but neither does changing it. Honestly, Anet could have implemented a 1 vs. 1 arena and made 50 times more people happy than any of this random nonsence ever will. At least then the people who are desperate to go solo that other war over there could have some place all their own and not need to much up the other PvP areas.
Joh
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
You have to control the map not just one alter. If you stay a group and move from alter to alter you won't win. You have to split up so those kind of builds in the end would not be viable at all.
|
If you want to play organized, stick to GvG, HA or TA. There are no random arenas of more than 4 player teams as of now, so random arenas have priority IMO. And who knows, they might add a 12vs12 arena for organized teams aswell.
kalvon
I think they should have two different versions of 12 v 12. The first the one they have implemented in factions. The second should be one were you organize parties of 12 and fight other organized parties of 12. I like how you can jump in whenever you want, but it would be fun to have an organized guild group do this vs another organized guild group.
twicky_kid
Soloing is for pve not pvp.
1vs1 matches wouldn't work because of the paper, rock, scissors game GW is.
1 proffession would beat another and so on a so forth. That would all come down to what profession you are playing against. You could just go mes and own them all
Besides there would be stalemate matches and that is no fun either.
The maps are so big that a 12vs12 cordinated builds would work fine. The map is too big to everywhere at once and the alter capping strat reqs more people at the location to take over the alter. We cannot access alliances yet so that may be what they are for. I just know if it stays the same it will add nothing to the game and be a dead arena within no time.
1vs1 matches wouldn't work because of the paper, rock, scissors game GW is.
1 proffession would beat another and so on a so forth. That would all come down to what profession you are playing against. You could just go mes and own them all
Besides there would be stalemate matches and that is no fun either.
The maps are so big that a 12vs12 cordinated builds would work fine. The map is too big to everywhere at once and the alter capping strat reqs more people at the location to take over the alter. We cannot access alliances yet so that may be what they are for. I just know if it stays the same it will add nothing to the game and be a dead arena within no time.
Hanok Odbrook
All the PvP arenas need to be rethought. The PvEers just don't have enough experience to either want to do them, or leave halfway through because their side is loosing. The balance issue with the Alliance battles is horrible. Once a side gains control of the majority of the points, the other side doesn't have a chance, so the rest of the battle is pointless, and more players start to leave. I just wasted five minutes running around because the other team captured all the points, so there was nothing my team could do except hide in our base - five minutes waiting for them to get to 500 points. That's idiotic.
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace
Crisis54
/not signed
I'm sorry, I USED to like HoH but it turned into this +3r bull----. Have to make this uber build which I don't like just to play. Standing around for 2 hours finding a group that isn't IWAY for something. Same thing will happen to 12 v 12 if it turns into groups. This way I can just hop in, press enter mission, play a little and leave without having to resort to 4 v 4 random arena.
Yeah, you cant communicate because it's random. Well guess what? Same goes for the other team. If you really wanna communicate get 3 of your friends and create an assault group with ventrilo or whatever, then create a group. But don't ruin casual people's fun just to be "hardcore".
I'm sorry, I USED to like HoH but it turned into this +3r bull----. Have to make this uber build which I don't like just to play. Standing around for 2 hours finding a group that isn't IWAY for something. Same thing will happen to 12 v 12 if it turns into groups. This way I can just hop in, press enter mission, play a little and leave without having to resort to 4 v 4 random arena.
Yeah, you cant communicate because it's random. Well guess what? Same goes for the other team. If you really wanna communicate get 3 of your friends and create an assault group with ventrilo or whatever, then create a group. But don't ruin casual people's fun just to be "hardcore".
Denny Pace
I don't mind some randomness in the Alliance battles, but I do mind that one can only put 3x4 teams together. I think it would be better to have any number of people up to 12 go in as a unit. I know my guild feels that way, and others I've talked with do as well.
Kakumei
I don't know if all of you people are bad at it or what.
Are you even TRYING to communicate with the rest of your team? Or do you just write that possibility off and do your own thing?
I've found that if you talk to your teammates, and you make it seem like you know what you're doing, they tend to listen. Not all the time, granted, but more often than not, that's the case. Talk to them. Say "you you and you, go to the left, take the waterfall; you you and you, go to the right, take the shipwreck". It CAN and DOES work.
Also, as someone noted, you can go in with three friends and act as a squad--four people out of 12 who know what they're doing is not a small fraction.
And comebacks are indeed possible. Granted, once you start losing, it's hard to keep from losing further, but you can come back from controlling 1 point and being over 100 points behind. I just did it not a half hour ago.
It's only been three days. Give it time.
Are you even TRYING to communicate with the rest of your team? Or do you just write that possibility off and do your own thing?
I've found that if you talk to your teammates, and you make it seem like you know what you're doing, they tend to listen. Not all the time, granted, but more often than not, that's the case. Talk to them. Say "you you and you, go to the left, take the waterfall; you you and you, go to the right, take the shipwreck". It CAN and DOES work.
Also, as someone noted, you can go in with three friends and act as a squad--four people out of 12 who know what they're doing is not a small fraction.
And comebacks are indeed possible. Granted, once you start losing, it's hard to keep from losing further, but you can come back from controlling 1 point and being over 100 points behind. I just did it not a half hour ago.
It's only been three days. Give it time.
Malice Black
12v12 should stay random...even me a PvE only person enjoyed the random chaos of this, i had fun owning with SS when everyone was bunched around 1 alter if this turns into organized PvP then fame farming will rule...
Mysterial
I think the 3 random groups of 4 is a good way to allow guilds to group together without having super groups that demolish everything (which is what you will get if you let 12 guildmates on a team - every game a steamroll one way or the other)
IMO all they need to do is:
-Punish leavers. Screw the (terrible) "there could be legitimate reasons for leaving early" argument. I don't care, and in my experience players are willing to put up with a false positive now and then if it indicates that the developers are making an active effort to improve their playing experience.
-End the game if all seven points are captured by one team for a reasonable time, say 60 seconds. I've never seen a comeback from this and it seems like it would be extremely unlikely, since with all those points you have all the bonuses they imply, the enemy always spawns in their base so you know where they're coming from, and it always ends up being the winning team camping the base for 10+ minutes while they wait for their score to go up.
IMO all they need to do is:
-Punish leavers. Screw the (terrible) "there could be legitimate reasons for leaving early" argument. I don't care, and in my experience players are willing to put up with a false positive now and then if it indicates that the developers are making an active effort to improve their playing experience.
-End the game if all seven points are captured by one team for a reasonable time, say 60 seconds. I've never seen a comeback from this and it seems like it would be extremely unlikely, since with all those points you have all the bonuses they imply, the enemy always spawns in their base so you know where they're coming from, and it always ends up being the winning team camping the base for 10+ minutes while they wait for their score to go up.
Wretchman Drake
Dude, if you're a bad team leader, work on your skills. Use the compass it might actually be there for a reason to draw and ping on!
Yeah I'm sure you'd love yet another arena to be taken over by Iway and Spiking to make it the dumbest experience for the average gamer or those who just want to have random fun. I hate HA because of the ridiculous builds that go on in there. Here it is so much more fair. You have a chance to form a party of 4, deal with it. Be thankful you can at least do that. If 4 guys work together, that alone should be enough to take over some bases.
If they make this into another HA type thing, I'm not doing it. It would take forever to form groups and Spike will just get even worse. Ughhh, the thought makes me shiver..
/not signed (should not even be considered)
Yeah I'm sure you'd love yet another arena to be taken over by Iway and Spiking to make it the dumbest experience for the average gamer or those who just want to have random fun. I hate HA because of the ridiculous builds that go on in there. Here it is so much more fair. You have a chance to form a party of 4, deal with it. Be thankful you can at least do that. If 4 guys work together, that alone should be enough to take over some bases.
If they make this into another HA type thing, I'm not doing it. It would take forever to form groups and Spike will just get even worse. Ughhh, the thought makes me shiver..
/not signed (should not even be considered)
Tuoba Hturt Eht
I slap you with a Kai Den's "Signet of Major Disapproval".
/not signed
If you make 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles not "random", you will deny many people the chance to have fun.
I don't want to see another version of "Heroes Ascent", anywhere, ever, again.
/not signed
If you make 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles not "random", you will deny many people the chance to have fun.
I don't want to see another version of "Heroes Ascent", anywhere, ever, again.
paddes
/not signed
as many people above me already said, 12v12 is nice because of its randomness. one doesnt have to make up a group build which often takes hours, just hop in and have fun. organised group play should stay in the HoH and not on the 12v12 battleground where everything is a bit of a mess, and thats just the beauty of it. if you want to organise a bit, just make up a little group of 4 and try to defend one altar...
i like to imagine the 12v12 battles like battlefield2 where you try to gain control over access points with a bunch of undisciplined computer geeks.
finally the casual PvP player gets to play some PvP without being discriminated. just hop in and have fun without those "ub0r leet we 0wn j00 all" builds, which are just another lame copy of another copied successful build posted on another forum.
as many people above me already said, 12v12 is nice because of its randomness. one doesnt have to make up a group build which often takes hours, just hop in and have fun. organised group play should stay in the HoH and not on the 12v12 battleground where everything is a bit of a mess, and thats just the beauty of it. if you want to organise a bit, just make up a little group of 4 and try to defend one altar...
i like to imagine the 12v12 battles like battlefield2 where you try to gain control over access points with a bunch of undisciplined computer geeks.
finally the casual PvP player gets to play some PvP without being discriminated. just hop in and have fun without those "ub0r leet we 0wn j00 all" builds, which are just another lame copy of another copied successful build posted on another forum.
Wretchman Drake
I love Battlefield 2. Play it everyday on Xbox Live 
I also thought the 2 were very similar, except for the fact that you don't have... Well, actually, you do have tanks, and the Helicopters are the Dragons, and the Marines with guns are the Rangers.
Eet GnomeSmasher
/Not signed too.
Alliance battles are for EVERYONE. Not just for the "elite" The randomness is totally appropriate. It is afterall, supposed to be a war right?
The only problem are the quitters, and there's been many many posts about that problem and hopefully that problem gets fixed.
The randomness is not the problem, the quitting is. Inexperienced players on your team? So what? Go play team arenas or GvG if you can't deal with "noobs" That's what they are there for. The Alliance battles are not meant to be like HoH or GvG.
Alliance battles are for EVERYONE. Not just for the "elite" The randomness is totally appropriate. It is afterall, supposed to be a war right?
The only problem are the quitters, and there's been many many posts about that problem and hopefully that problem gets fixed.
The randomness is not the problem, the quitting is. Inexperienced players on your team? So what? Go play team arenas or GvG if you can't deal with "noobs" That's what they are there for. The Alliance battles are not meant to be like HoH or GvG.
Ohtar Nimloth
are we playing the same game? Keep in mind the name of this game is Guildwars not "mewars" or "Iwars". Personally I think the idea of a random 12 v 12 is a good idea for the 2 faction concept. Eventually the balance in the the random 12 man team will shift to something more tolerable than 4 Rt, 5 As, 2W, and a R...monks will show up and people will be playing builds designed to support 12 people not the usuall 4 in a random match....
I think the Anet will definatly have 12 v 12 arenas that are not random, however for the beta event an actuall comp arena at the 12 v 12 level would complety and uterly be owned by the first couple of uber guilds to develop and organize a good 12 v 12 concept...thats why they all are random, at least for the BWE....
The goal of Anet should be to please as many player as possible, lets have random and comp arenas...but one last time keep in mind if you are playing by yourself, you dont belong to a guild, you only PVE, or You dont really PvP much....you are not the core audience of this game and you will suffer unless you learn to play the game more as it was intended to be played....
if we all have the "Guild"wars mentality a random arena is not random...its one big guild "luxons" v one big guild "kurzicks"....
I think the Anet will definatly have 12 v 12 arenas that are not random, however for the beta event an actuall comp arena at the 12 v 12 level would complety and uterly be owned by the first couple of uber guilds to develop and organize a good 12 v 12 concept...thats why they all are random, at least for the BWE....
The goal of Anet should be to please as many player as possible, lets have random and comp arenas...but one last time keep in mind if you are playing by yourself, you dont belong to a guild, you only PVE, or You dont really PvP much....you are not the core audience of this game and you will suffer unless you learn to play the game more as it was intended to be played....
if we all have the "Guild"wars mentality a random arena is not random...its one big guild "luxons" v one big guild "kurzicks"....
Thom
Ummm, its fairly easy to get 2 teams in at the same time. We had multiple matches with 8 people on vent, some of them were quite good.
A single coordinated 4-man team can win with a drop or two. We had some fun 4 man builds designed especially for 12v12 and had no problems consitantly winning (we lost one or two, but things favored us). I don't think we ever lost when we had 8 people on vent, but there were some good matches against other coordinated teams.
A single coordinated 4-man team can win with a drop or two. We had some fun 4 man builds designed especially for 12v12 and had no problems consitantly winning (we lost one or two, but things favored us). I don't think we ever lost when we had 8 people on vent, but there were some good matches against other coordinated teams.
Mandy Memory
12 v 12 is great! The only thing that needs to be added is a punishment for leavers or opposition joining your team, and in game voice chat for your team.
They say dont reinvent the wheel...but they make it to where you cant even use it.
They say dont reinvent the wheel...but they make it to where you cant even use it.
Flame Skyborn
I quite enjoy the randomness of these Alliance Battles, especially the part where I don't have to play some select build that everyone loves at the time. Being able to just jump into a battle saves a lot of time (don't have to stand around for hours yelling LFG) as well, while it still provides an arena that requires a little more coordination and effort than RA.
There are some issues with this set up, namely leavers (and some technical issues for me, but that's hardly relevant), but I believe the random quality of the arenas is much preferrable to making it some kind of hardcore competitive "I must be r3/6++ to get into a decent group within the next 3 hours" sort of thing.
There are some issues with this set up, namely leavers (and some technical issues for me, but that's hardly relevant), but I believe the random quality of the arenas is much preferrable to making it some kind of hardcore competitive "I must be r3/6++ to get into a decent group within the next 3 hours" sort of thing.
icemonkey
I see these battles more like GvG where you won't be LFG for anything you'll be with your guild all the time. Thats how i did it this weekend at least.
But this issue is very polarizing. PvE and casual people like it, Serious PvP players don't like it cuz of the joke that it is(can you guess how i feel)
You cannot have real communication and therefore cannot form a strategy to win, which means people that enjoy planning and carrying out a winning strategy will not be interested. People that are looking to just bash at something with their axe or just build a huge minion army will prolly have fun. I think this is how Anet is trying to succeed this competition for Pve and PvP players, fun for casual pick up and play but definatly not anything more
But this issue is very polarizing. PvE and casual people like it, Serious PvP players don't like it cuz of the joke that it is(can you guess how i feel)
You cannot have real communication and therefore cannot form a strategy to win, which means people that enjoy planning and carrying out a winning strategy will not be interested. People that are looking to just bash at something with their axe or just build a huge minion army will prolly have fun. I think this is how Anet is trying to succeed this competition for Pve and PvP players, fun for casual pick up and play but definatly not anything more
Tuoba Hturt Eht
Thread hijack:
For discussion about how to fix the issue of rage quiters in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles, follow the below link:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142996
A number of ideas have been proposed on how to deal with the problem of rage quiters.
Back to topic:
Like many have stated, if you wanted organized teams, go in with teams of 4.
Again,
please don't make it like how the "Heroes Ascent" is of now.
Please don't deny casual players the chance to participate in large scale battles.
About communication:
I have leet typing skills(70+ WPM), so using typing as a means of communication is not an issue for me.
For discussion about how to fix the issue of rage quiters in the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles, follow the below link:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142996
A number of ideas have been proposed on how to deal with the problem of rage quiters.
Back to topic:
Like many have stated, if you wanted organized teams, go in with teams of 4.
Again,
please don't make it like how the "Heroes Ascent" is of now.
Please don't deny casual players the chance to participate in large scale battles.
About communication:
I have leet typing skills(70+ WPM), so using typing as a means of communication is not an issue for me.
Eet GnomeSmasher
Im going to say it again:
Keep it random and for the casual player. Fix the quitting/leaving/griefing problem.
I love organized PVP as much as the next guy and play GvG whenever I can, but that's not always possible so I think these Alliances battles are a great ALTERNATIVE.
Remember, these arent supposed to replace HoH and GvG and dont try to turn them into clones of them either.
Keep it random and for the casual player. Fix the quitting/leaving/griefing problem.
I love organized PVP as much as the next guy and play GvG whenever I can, but that's not always possible so I think these Alliances battles are a great ALTERNATIVE.
Remember, these arent supposed to replace HoH and GvG and dont try to turn them into clones of them either.
lady kesha
/not signed
Personally I dont believe it was the randomness of the groups, but the battles themselves. Such as Fort Aspenwood - when I first went in, I had NO idea was what going on! someone was like go here and do this and I was like uh ok.. "DEAD"! I still dont get it and I did it twice - once where 2 people left the group. Personally I'm not a PvP'er but I wanted to see what it was about. however, the randomness does help in that you dont have to wait forever to find a group - nor do you have to wait on guildies to get on to play. Its random for a reason - if they intended for it to non-random, it would have been "form your own group"... and in a way, it was fun!
Personally I dont believe it was the randomness of the groups, but the battles themselves. Such as Fort Aspenwood - when I first went in, I had NO idea was what going on! someone was like go here and do this and I was like uh ok.. "DEAD"! I still dont get it and I did it twice - once where 2 people left the group. Personally I'm not a PvP'er but I wanted to see what it was about. however, the randomness does help in that you dont have to wait forever to find a group - nor do you have to wait on guildies to get on to play. Its random for a reason - if they intended for it to non-random, it would have been "form your own group"... and in a way, it was fun!
Sidra
Me and one MM held shipwreck, repeled a group, then went on to take the monk alter near their left base entrance, held that, then joined the main battle. 2 people choordinated makes a huge difference against random people running in. if you can make 4 PEOPLE choordinated like that, you're pretty hard to kill. keep it random.
Rebirther
/not signed.
I agree that randomness is required, but one thing that should be enforced is the creation of a 4 player team n alliance wars and not allowing single individuals to just bash the enter button.
I'm happy with the specific random arenas (that dont require team formation e.g. fort/jade).
I agree that randomness is required, but one thing that should be enforced is the creation of a 4 player team n alliance wars and not allowing single individuals to just bash the enter button.
I'm happy with the specific random arenas (that dont require team formation e.g. fort/jade).
twicky_kid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by icemonkey
But this issue is very polarizing. PvE and casual people like it, Serious PvP players don't like it cuz of the joke that it is(can you guess how i feel)
|
This place will NEVER turn into HA because there is no fame. IWAY didn't destroy HA fame did don't get it confused. Without rank you wouldn't be sitting in town for hours trying to find group.
The reward for factions is merchants. This is a global reward much like favor is. There is no personal reward like rank.
If it stays random I would still buy factions but only for the skills because I'm really more pvp oriented. I see some broken skills already and look forward to the new GvG season with new guild halls.
12vs12 is going to remain a joke unless you can use alliances to link teams.
Cottage Pie
/NOT signed.
repeat NOT SIGNED, EVER.
you can organise in there, but the random aspect breaks any 'build' dominanace, teams of 12 would just be awful.
repeat NOT SIGNED, EVER.
you can organise in there, but the random aspect breaks any 'build' dominanace, teams of 12 would just be awful.
Metanoia
Ditto, I like the fact it's random.
There is one slight problem though... I noticed that the winning team usually seemed to have a good MM with them. Tried it out and wow, two crushing 500-90ish victories. MM vs unorginized teams is pretty brutal, hardly anyone packs corpse claimers. Oh well, it was a nice opportunity to dust off Verata's Aura and snicker at my enemies reaction after their fiends turn on them*.
*It's especially amusing because Verata's Aura doesn't change their minion's team colours, their "previous owner" doesn't know they've turned until it's too late.
It's kind of unfair how only Profecies characters get the hard MM counter...
There is one slight problem though... I noticed that the winning team usually seemed to have a good MM with them. Tried it out and wow, two crushing 500-90ish victories. MM vs unorginized teams is pretty brutal, hardly anyone packs corpse claimers. Oh well, it was a nice opportunity to dust off Verata's Aura and snicker at my enemies reaction after their fiends turn on them*.
*It's especially amusing because Verata's Aura doesn't change their minion's team colours, their "previous owner" doesn't know they've turned until it's too late.
It's kind of unfair how only Profecies characters get the hard MM counter...
Guardian of the Light
/not signed
The randomness is placed to prevent a complait about Mass Battles that 'spike' team mihgt be overpowered
This is not a game for the most uber l33t. There are morons but just intructing some of them can make play better.
This requires skill and is a NEW place for fun new part of Guild Wars. Like 1v1 will be if it is introduced.
If you don't like this type of play then DON'T PLAY IT!
The randomness is placed to prevent a complait about Mass Battles that 'spike' team mihgt be overpowered
This is not a game for the most uber l33t. There are morons but just intructing some of them can make play better.
This requires skill and is a NEW place for fun new part of Guild Wars. Like 1v1 will be if it is introduced.
If you don't like this type of play then DON'T PLAY IT!
Thom
As it currently stands, it is the organized (vent) groups that can dominated Alliance battles. Sure random people can enter, but even in the current configuration organized 4-mans will be the deciding factor.
If a group of 12 randoms faces a team with 2 organized 4-man teams: gg, rage quit.
Spike teams will never work on the 12v12 map. The most effective spike would be two team 6+6 which would be dominated by 4+4+4 or even 3+3+3+3. Sure spike can kill quickly, but that really isn't rewarded.
If a group of 12 randoms faces a team with 2 organized 4-man teams: gg, rage quit.
Spike teams will never work on the 12v12 map. The most effective spike would be two team 6+6 which would be dominated by 4+4+4 or even 3+3+3+3. Sure spike can kill quickly, but that really isn't rewarded.
Sidra
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Couldn't have said it better.
This place will NEVER turn into HA because there is no fame. IWAY didn't destroy HA fame did don't get it confused. Without rank you wouldn't be sitting in town for hours trying to find group. The reward for factions is merchants. This is a global reward much like favor is. There is no personal reward like rank. If it stays random I would still buy factions but only for the skills because I'm really more pvp oriented. I see some broken skills already and look forward to the new GvG season with new guild halls. 12vs12 is going to remain a joke unless you can use alliances to link teams. |
The reward here is re-vamped fame in the form of earning enough faction to own a freaking TOWN! Once more people realize that and how to do it we'll start seeing some serious proffesionalism in the 12 v 12, and i'm not happy about that.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Sidra
The reward here is re-vamped fame in the form of earning enough faction to own a freaking TOWN! Once more people realize that and how to do it we'll start seeing some serious proffesionalism in the 12 v 12, and i'm not happy about that.
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Spike team will never work because you have to take over multiple alters spread out and hold them. If you have ever played in a spike team then you know that splitting will most likely spell the end for you. Best you can do is a 6 man split. As said before by Thom it will destroyed by a 4-4-4 or 3-3-3-3 teams taking over multiple points at once while you can take only 2 at the most.
Assassins and ritualist really shine in this game play as the ritualist can guard 2 alters alone. The assassin can use recall and other tele skills to move quickly across a large map. Charge is the only elite choice for wars or 2nd wars. MM are owning now because of the unorganization. Kill the MM and the minions turn on the owners. Not to mention it allows a member on your team to use aura and take them all under control. I brung gaze just to take over then flesh golem. They will raise another one and boom now I have 2
MM are not a problem I more worried about how EoE is going to chain outside of its area.
Yunas Ele
I haven't read the whole topic, so if someones already said this, forgive me.
Look how long it takes to get an 8 man team together (GvG or HA).... now imagine a 12 man team....damn that will take a while. I like hows its random but you can pick a few team mates.
The only bad thing I can say about 12v12 is that once one team takes a lead of 50 points or more, the most of the other team players rage quit, which turns it into a waiting game (waiting to get 500 pts since the game is over already...). Not sure how ANet could fix that though, because rage quitters are not their fault...
Look how long it takes to get an 8 man team together (GvG or HA).... now imagine a 12 man team....damn that will take a while. I like hows its random but you can pick a few team mates.
The only bad thing I can say about 12v12 is that once one team takes a lead of 50 points or more, the most of the other team players rage quit, which turns it into a waiting game (waiting to get 500 pts since the game is over already...). Not sure how ANet could fix that though, because rage quitters are not their fault...
ghostlyranger
i still want random, so i can just click and play. not wasting my time sitting there.
punish the quiter, and give some nice shit to the one that fight till end.
then everyone will stay in the game until last minute.
punish the quiter, and give some nice shit to the one that fight till end.
then everyone will stay in the game until last minute.
Ensign
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Originally Posted by icemonkey
But this issue is very polarizing. PvE and casual people like it, Serious PvP players don't like it cuz of the joke that it is(can you guess how i feel)
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I think this is exactly what the game needed. HA has become a pretty serious format to most people and very discriminatory because of it - GvG is of course the most serious format in the game. Arenas are ok to mess around with a bit but are absurdly simple. 12v12 is a nice medium. Newer players can join into the grand melee in the middle of these maps, while more experienced players win and lose the game on the fringes in smaller squads.
Running around on your own dueling people isn't a bad thing at all, it's encouraged by the spread out nature of the map. That idiot WaMo will get smashed by an experienced player 1v1 (I've had a lot of fun hunting those this weekend), but he's actually being productive if he's capturing and defending control points on his own. Similarly if a more seasoned player doesn't want to play tactically he can just bring a dominant center-map character to the grand melee and farm himself some n00bs. Take a Flame Burst turret into those melees and you'll see what I mean.
12v12 has something for everyone, and it's a blast to play. It won't replace GvG as a competitive format, but does it have to? I would not be surprised if 12v12 becomes the most popular format in the long haul. It's just that good.
It goes without saying that I wouldn't make any significant changes to the way it plays, at all.
Peace,
-CxE