12v12 needs to be reworked

/not signed

I love the random aspect of it. I also don't want to see this turn into another HoH. HoH is cool, but we don't need two of them.

As for people leaving, how about a new stat page you could view by right clicking on someone that shows ragequit/Dissconnects/battles fought etc.?
This window WILL NOT show how skilled someone is, just if they are a quitter that shouldn't join your party to begin with.

And a dumb reason to quit is "there's no monk" I've won on no monk teams, while helpful, they are not required.

/NOT SIGNED

Because I'm tired to get in groups which demand mostly R6++ and command you to take certain build. The alliance battle should be random so I can have fun in PvP when I want. Running around the area at least for an hour and hope someone invites you because you are below rank 6 is not fun. I'm tired of these organized groups which use fame denial against low rankers or newbies. At least I have fun even I don't get fame.

12v12 is fun, I always go off solo and capture the unattended points.

Oh and the 1v1 you get sometimes are great fun, sometimes 2v1!

/ NOT SIGNED EVER

I loved it and i dont want this turned into
the scum whichch is HA

/not signed
I do hate the elitest pigs that inhabit HA. One arrogant guy in a 12v12 was claiming his team's victory was sololy due to his degen work. I can imagine all the arrogant little pricks running around there now getting together 12 man teams.

RA is fustrating 50% of the time in a random team of 4. How much more can a random team of 12 be?
But then, trying to get a team of 8 is hard to do in HA.
Maybe if it was mandatory to get in a team of 4 and then the other two teams were random.
That way you only need 3 other players to form a team, and your working with 2 other formed teams in an alliance.
As much as I like that hit a button and go idea (its fast and fun) I cant bring myself to take it seriously.
This is just a beta so theres no telling. But if this is what it is to be, imo, its back peddling from the idea of orginazed team cooperation.

I like the mix of "planning" and Random, your 4 guys could be flawless and your other partners could bite, I'm more worried about Spies.

Spies: Players from opposing faction who join your faction to quit, or die alot to give MMs corpses.

It's unacceptable behavior that should be penalized

/signed

I think you should be able to enter with 12 people from your alliance guilds, if you can't get 12 people from your alliance then you have to join a party of 4 and join randomly.

/not signed

i like the way it is, if u want to make a team u can ad bring what u think will be benificial or guild mates /friends

or you can jus get into a game and play ive been to heroes and never got into a game, everyone plays the same build or if your not a certain build u cant play.

it also makes the battles more balanced in that u'll prob have a mix of vets and rookies..

someone said earlier u cant come back from losing all 7 points, i think u could or at least give em a run for their money as long as the team doesnt RQ on you, (which has happened a couple times for me, one game we started coming back and got to about 390 before it ended), the randomness puts a lot of flaws in the other team that can be exploited if u cn overcome the ones in yours (namely communication)

if the hardcore guys want 12 vs. 12 with lots of orders and waiten around for solid groups then let em but also have random groups so guys can just go in and fight -cant be that hard to set up-everyone is happy

Some ppl have mentioned the problem of ragequiters in this thread. Well, even making it impossible for instance to maptravel while in battle wouldnt solve that problem.

1) players can restart GW to leave the battle
2) players can go afk and wait till the battle is over.

But to come back on topic, since the 12v12 is located on the PvE map, I think it should remain random.

If organised groups would like to play 12v12, they should make a 12v12 outpost on the battle isles.

/not signed

What I hate about GvG and HA is that you have to wait ONE HOUR just to get a team together.
With Alliance you just enter and you're in. If you want to get organisation just meet up at the guildhall and pre-make a team then get teleported to battle.

/not signed

/removes the 2 ppl who signed it

I can see that you want to play these maps with 12v12 etc. but not when it affects the whole area.

If this would be a 12v12 wich guilds can get into it would form a total unbalanced game, the fun thing about these 12v12 that just everyone can join when they want to.

In the end a lot of ppl will know what to do and will try to make their own 4 build etc... this is what I want to see, bring more ppl in the PvP aspect of the game.

Sry but I LOVE how it is now

power to the noobs!

As I see it, you can't tell my guild to go easy on you just because we're orgainised and you're not, that's your problem so deal with it. You don't have to be highly skilled in Alliance Battles, all it takes is coordination and organisation.

I don't like the idea of joining a random team who really don't know how to play, for example, I lost my first Alliance Battle when I joined a team who whole-heartedly believed that if you had the dragon you could win. No, I'm not going to risk that stupidity again.

/Signed

Lets say a significant majority of the top 100 guilds all choose to be on the same faction and play all the time in organized builds. That just sucks for everyone.

Yeah...

/notsigned

/nukes signers

Seriously guys. Organized 12-man teams inside a single Guild? RED ENGINGE GO NO!!This 12v12 format is perfect. You can take three buddies into the place, with an agenda and a TeamSpeak server, and win the match totally independant of the idiots zerging straight for the dragon roost. Or, as Ensign said, you can grab yourself a center-dominant character and blow the OO out of some nOObs. For me, it's A/R with Barrage, Critical Eye, and Sharpen Daggers.

For the longest time, the only PvP option available to the casual gamer was Random Arenas. I'm sorry, but NO. In a unit that small, even one idiot kills you, and most of the time it's you and three idiots. The only saving grace is that the other team has three idiots too. But these new 12v12 games have structure to them. They have objectives and require strategy to win. And sheer weight of numbers allows even a hoard of idiots to be useful. In one instance I saw an EvIL player, one of the World Freakin' Champions, mobbed by eight nOObs, one inexperienced Assassin (moi) and a dragon. it was a sight I'll remember for years XD.

Basically, I agree with Ensign. 12v12 is awesomeness on a stick, an ideal blend of organization and delicious chaos which can appeal to anyone without three feet of wood shoved up their rectums. HA is absolutely unplayable these days save for a handful of rank-obsessed fools who refuse to take on anyone lower than r6, and GvG, while intense and cool, is too damn preparation-intensive, and too damn stressful, for constant play.

12v12 is awesome. The one and only Resurrects Are Optional game type which allows a player total freedom to do what he will with his skills, and also the one and only impacting, serious, important game type which anyone with a lvl 20 can jump into.

Take that away, and there will be outrage like nothing you've ever seen before.

/not signed

/not signed

While I was a bit dissapointed I wasn't able to bring more of my friends into an Alliance Battle, a keen selling point was that I could engage in large-scale PVP without having to worry about a power-guild crushing me -every- time I entered the map. On top of that, there's no emphasis on cookie-cutter builds (like in HoH) 'cause of the random factor.

I don't mean to say "homg i suck and can never play in pvp ." Rather, I mean to say I don't have time to dedicate to revolve around a powerguild, let alone force my friends--who play casually AND enjoy PVP--into a powerguild as well.

This allows us the fun of PVP without the fear of being blown up instantly.

The randomness rocks. The control points rock.

And skill is -still- required.

Just like in any other battle, people need to know when to fight and when to run, where to apply pressure and when to take advantage of it. When large-scale battles happen in 12v12, I'm instantly on vent telling two of my friends, "Hey, they're distracted--let's go NOW."

If I'm playing solo, I just call out two people in chat who I recognize as team players to follow me.. and off we go to claim a shrine. ;D

It's just so much fun.

And a 12v12 guild mindset would ruin all of that.

In short: "Basically, I agree with Ensign. 12v12 is awesomeness on a stick, an ideal blend of organization and delicious chaos which can appeal to anyone without three feet of wood shoved up their rectums. HA is absolutely unplayable these days save for a handful of rank-obsessed fools who refuse to take on anyone lower than r6, and GvG, while intense and cool, is too damn preparation-intensive, and too damn stressful, for constant play."

What the guy above me said.

12v12 rocks. Thanks, Anet.

Uhm, most of you guys seem to be forgetting that it will not be completely random at release.

In this event, you couldn't make alliances, instead your guild was treated as an alliance of 1.

When factions is released and you doa faction battle, you will be teamed with players from your own alliance, i.e. People that you KNOW and more than likely have played with before.

?

Where'd you hear something like that?

I haven't heard anything remotely close to that for 12v12.

Well why else would it be called an ALLIANCE battle?

Also its been in a few of the Jeff Strain interviews.

.. 'cause of the Luxon/Kurzick alliances, and how people of those alliances are coming together to fight against their enemy? One of the more awkward things I've encountered so far is the repeated use of the word alliance. There's alliance points, and then there's alliance faction points--and then there's the Luxon/Kurzick alliances, and then the guild alliances.

Could you please cite these interviews? I'm not doubting that they exist. I just have no idea where to find them.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

please keep it random. please please please!

[not signed]

I think that the votes have been counted and the results are in!

Everyone likes the random!

It really does open up the game play to anyone and means that battles are less predictable and more fun.

However I would like to try these maps in a GvG style or organised, not to replace the current system but as-well-as.

I think that's the best solution, as I want both options.

I want to restate this.

I don't have to conform to some cookie-cutter build if I want to 12v12 in Alliance. I can bring whatever I want and hope for the best--and I'll still have a chance at victory.

No one telling me what to bring. No one demanding I be something. No one INSTANTLY KICKING ME BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

And all of the fun of Unreal Tournament.. except no vehicles. ;P

Wubberful. :O

- edit -

"Don't forget, in the real thing, alliance battles will be played with people from your own alliance, not people from ppossible 12 different alliances as it is now."

Where are people hearing this?

I want 12v12 to stay random. Is this not going to be the case?

/not signed.

As a very causall PvPer I really like the Random teams. I agree with most that I don't like to spam LFG forever just to play a round. Developers always said they wanted their game to be accesible to many and players wouldn't have to invest months of time to have fun. I vote for keeping it random and not letting the "leet" r3+ people ruin it for the rest of us.

/not signed

I thought I was a strict PVE only-player until I tried the alliance battles. They were kind of fun. I'm looking forward to playing them some more, improving my game a bit.

12 vs 12 Alliance Battles should be readily available to the general public, like how the current Random Arenas is.

Deny the general public that chance, and a lot people is going to be very unhappy.

At first, I did not like that it was 3 random groups for 4, but it saves time in matchmaking. There were times where I would get dozens of "no opposing party found, resetting timer" in a row. It takes a while getting 8 people we want to play with for HA already. Imagine 12. When players take it a bit more seriously, the quality will improve too.

I used to play Shattered Galaxy where battles would be 16vs16 and random people would just join in to defend territories. Back when I played, there was no voice communication too and players worked together. It helps when there are several guildies too.

Alliance Battles need a penalty for leaving to distinguish it from Arena. In Shattered Galaxy, there were players who would leave when a lost was imminent in order to not have it counted in their record. Eventually, an honour system was implemented where leaving would deduct points from it. Not sure how it is now.

For Alliance Battles, we can have leavers be prevented from joining another one for maybe 10 mins. Or have faction points deduction.

Leavers should always get a loss on their record, no matter if leaving was caused by accident (lag) or not. This is widely accepted in Starcraft, BW and WC. The first minute you can leave without penalty, and the game wont count. After that its win or loose.

As for random parties: I suggest to create a smaller 4 vs 4 training area where everyone can train this kind of gameplay, eventually with/against henchies. Winning or losing won't caunt for anything since its only to practice. Before starting a 12 vs 12 game there should be a confirmation screen where new players get the advice to play some training matches first.

With these add-ons 12 vs 12 matches should stay random.

/also not signed.

I can see the problems with random. I was in too many matches that had problems.
At the same time I don't want to see people spamming looking for rank6+ blah blah blah, super spike or super iway teams.
I like the random effect for that reason alone.

I wouldn't mind seeing the possibility of expanding your party size to 6 though. I went in with guildies and we maxed at 4. I think if you can have the opportunity to get two six-man teams in there it greatly increases your chance of success. I know that it is still random and you could be on a 6-man team paired with 6 random players but at least half of the group of 12 'should be organized'.


My two biggest issues in the 12vs12(which I really enjoyed) are:
1. leavers/quitters - this severely crippled your teams chances.
2. Opposite faction sacrificers. - A few times I had people on my yelling for (insert opposite teams faction) and then they proceeded to sac themselves to the point where I started one match down almost 40 points before it started. That is a major problem. I hate this in RA 4 vs 4. But now investing the time and effort of 11 other players and ruining their experience because you want to be an a$$. I have a real problem with that.

/spits on petition...

Me, my wife, and 2 other random people making our 'pack of four' was perfectly fine with 8 other random people...

We 4 knew who to follow [me ^_^] and I moved from point to point. It was tough since it was a 2 assassin, warrior, monk group, but we did our thing, the other 8 seemed to just want to kill and not camp spots [which is what you should be doing] but that's their thing.

A group of four that keeps their heads on straight is just as dangerous as whatever else you can come across.

That and working with total chaos in strangers is fun too!

I do not think spiking in 12v12 would be overpowered - mainly because it would just be overkill anyway and not necesarry, and also because you get more points from map control - splitting against the spikes would be so easy

as it is, there's so much room for griefing - we were luxons, and some kurzik guys just joined us and sacced themselves to death - which is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ridiculous

I totally agree, this is something A.net should take care of that things like this don't happen.

/not signed.

To me this is a refreshing new method of PvP. It's a wonderful combination of the Random Arena and Team Arena party build but also offers a great way for players to escape the stale builds of HA while still being able to experience PvP on a much larger scale than offered in the basic arenas.

While the prospect of entering these alliance battles with 3 different teams of 4 under the same alliance incites a great deal of excitement in me, I under no condition want such a scenario to be an ultimate replacement to how the alliance battles are structured as of now. Instead, if the 3x4 alliance teams were to become a possibility, I would much rather have that be something that coexists with the current structure instead of something that replaces it.

Though the current alliance battle structure has obviously not been perfected as of yet, I really think it's a neat idea that has a ton of potential.

Yes I approve of this new arena.

This way we can eliminate the need to be in a good guild, and most of all the need to have HIGH RANK!!!

I have mostly avoided HOH because I am not in a guild and I didnt play HoH that often. I am a very capable pvper for sure, I have over 20,000 faction points. But I just can not get into HoH without screaming "LFG" for two hours straight.

With this new arena, all of us, HoH lovers or not will all have the chance to have fun.

You can make a core party to play with of 4, that's equivilient to a squad in a army of 12. so make your team pick a direction either with our without the rest, and go. the best 12 party teams were 3 parties of 4 heading in all directions and then meeting together as a whole once all the points were secured...

Basically when this was done properly, the other team was dominated down to being base locked... the only thing I didn't like was the overpowered base defense units that made it impossible to overwhelm the other team. And the fact that when the -999 base attack hit one of us it was a kill for THEM. when all they are doing is hiding in their base...

There is an exploit in the 12vs12 that can be done... I will not get into it. But it is something I think they will likely fix. however... what you are talking about with the randomness of the 12v12 being a bad thing. well I can't agree with that... It allows for a good mix of players. something that has been long missing for a while in GW. No more do you have these jerks that will not take someone for not having fissure armor or for not having rank whatever... its a fair random mix. allowing you to play with 3 people for sure and potentially more if put together on the same random party... But the entire 12 party plan should always be a random mix. and that is a good thing... the definition of an ALLIANCE battle if you will.

since I was using a Pure Beta account for the event. (I didnt want to give up a slot from my main account) I played as a monk/Rit in Factions with a good bit of success. Even without a heal party. Its not easy by any means, but if you know what your doing you can secure up a win pretty easy by watching out for your squad first and team 2nd...
your party of 4 is your priority. If anything, I wish they would make a sepration line to make that easier to see... but its not really nessesary... Then when your entinre party regroups someplace you refocus on the entire party again... If you see allies falling obviously your squad goes to help and problem solved... if they don't. well thats not a good squad now is it???

A good way to look at it for training is like so.
the top 4 go left
the middle 4 go center
the bottom 4 go right.

each team hits 2 points and meet in center.

then split in 1/2 total and hit the rest of the points and push the opposing party back into their base.
top 6 left.
bottom 6 right.

If their is only one monk. well thats a problem, I was in several times...
But with some core rules to follow this is a really easy PvP challenge to master...

I stuck to my rules of engagement. if I was with a squad I conentrated on them. and redirected if their position was secure... I was seldom alone... But sometimes I had to be to get to where needed...

Sacrifice is needed at times for betterment of the party... sometimes its better to die and res then to run and not be in position to heal elsewhere...

i look at as whatever side your on, just destroying the other faction, to gain some control. so whatever side im on, i just care about destroying the other faction. so they don't get any type of control but that is just me.