From ANet: Most skills will have to be purchased or captured in Factions

All games are skill > time spent. Even world of warcraft: At a certain point, everyone gets to level 60 and finally gets their überweapons and then it's skill over time spent. How is Guild Wars any different than WoW? Instead of grinding levels, you grind skills, runes, and weapon mod unlocks.

Ok, here's a suggestion: Lets make everything in Guild Wars merged together so that it's not just the PvPers getting screwed by this idea to merge the game types together: Oh wait, someone already thought up the parody.

http://guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39505

If you think that's a bad idea, then not having faster unlocks is also a bad idea. It's simple.

hehe, that's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard for this game... the link, that is. Sounded like a bad UT mod or something.

Edit: Sorry for the totally off topic post, but that was a funny read.

I hope it was a joke though, cause I did laugh at it... if not, I apologise to the poster of that... umm, suggestion.

LOL

Like half the people in that thread have some UAS reference in their signature. It's worth reading though.. very amusing.



You get faction, you don't have to play pve. Figure it out.

You had something to bitch about when the game came out.. but you do get faction now and it is at a decent rate. This isn't an fps, it isn't an rts.. it is an rpg and a hybrid that mixes pve and pvp elements. You do have to unlock content. You don't like that?

Find another game already.

Yeah, if you had scanned the Off Topic section you would have seen a "Support UAX" thread where the poster told everyone to make a UAX sloganizer. I find it amusing too.

You need skills to PvP. You need faction to get skills... Or you could PvE to get skills. You do have to PvE. Have you had some PvP experience yet, or should I continue to ignore you? Sure, you could do it with premades, but it would take a thousand times longer than doing it through PvE where doing a quickie 2 minute quest can get you 2 or 3 skills.

We've given you links - Hell, you've given yourself links - to prove that Guild Wars is an RPG that was intended to closely focus on PvP competition as well as PvE. I'm sorry I didn't interpret "Your skill will be your Legend: You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat", as "Your unlocks will determine your legend: You'll prove that you need hours played and unlocks to get into any decent guild, regardless of your skill as a gamer. Whether battling in GvG or in Tombs, it will always be your skills and equipment unlocks that earns you a place in a team or waiting 20 more hours for someone to accept you!"

Obviously, a game marketed to competitive and casual players shouldn't be for competitive casual players.

Why don't you find me another Competitive Online RPG? As far as I can tell, there are none. It doesn't bother me that your player type (PvE) plays the game. It bothers me that you think that your playertype is the only one entitled to fun without restrictions. I wish selfish gamers would leave the internet, personally.

By the way, you never got the point of the joke thread from TGH. It was intended to make you realize how PvE would feel if you were forced to play PvP all the time, or never get anywhere with the game. I have no problem with PvE when I can play it at my liesure. I have a problem when it's forced upon me. You can deny this all you want, but there isn't a player in a top 300 guild who has gotten where he/she is through only faction. Infact, most of the players competing in the World Competition are using PvE characters because of their versatility and better items (negative energy, +10% attack speed wands, shields, armour sets, more skill sets, rune sets, etc.)


As I said before, this isn't going to go anywhere until you try to PvP on a highly competitive level, but you won't do that because that's like you asking me to PvE more than I find entertaining.

Waste of time focusing on something that isn't going to happen.

You're already past the point of having to start out with premades. You have a pool of content to use, and you'll unlock faction content by playing as you have been doing. New GW players aren't going to be competitive in pvp whether there's an UAX or not. Since anyone who pvps often and wants to be highly competitive.. gains more (much more) faction than they can even spend, I find the system working fine. You want the content immediately.. it's an rpg and it isn't going to happen.

Look, rpgs focus heavily around character development. You gain level, skills, attributes, etc.. and rpgs.. and starting w/ everything in the game.. just doesn't go together. If you were in beta, like someone mentioned, then you knew this before you bought the game. Why, after a year later, are you continuing to complain about it? I wish I could find you a different game, you could be bitching about that one instead.

I'm sorry that it's inconceivable to you that someone else that plays pvp doesn't have the same complaints that you do. Even though I'm almost strictly a pvper, I understand why an rpg has and should have character development elements.. even in the pvp. Their vision involves linking pve and pvp, and they seem to be trying to connect it even more. That's their vision, and you have to accept that.. or accept that this isn't the game for you. I think the faction's fine, and I don't feel like I should have an UAX button when I install factions. I am annoyed that I won't be able to spend the million+ faction that I would have earned if there wasn't a cap.. but I'm hoping they address that too. We all have a choice to have skill pts waiting for us to cash in, if unlocking content quicker.. is a priority.. but it's not forced.

That's because the game's original state is vastly different than it is now.

This.. contrary to what you believe.. highly refutes any point you have. Using a pve character means you have a very specific build. Your set of equipment, armor, runes, etc.. have a specified role. The content needed to play that role? Very small. It doesn't require UAX, in fact.. it only requires the 8 skills on your bar.. everything else can just be bought. I do think there is an issue with pve characters being superior because of the additional sets of armor, possible switches, and equipment that isn't available on pvp only characters.. and hopefully they'll address that. Loot is still minimal in this game however, and I think they still intend to have pvp only loot = pve loot.

I've done more than tried. You can continue to pretend that your view is shared by the pvp community, and that anyone who doesn't agree with your selfish viewpoints.. must not even play pvp.. but it doesn't make it so. Other people are capable of looking at more than just their own wants.. and might even consider other people. There's people out there that would enjoy the game less if they made changes you want, and you're not more important than them.. and neither am I.

It's mostly a joke. Since no reason was ever given as to why there's no UAX system for PvP-out-of-the-box other than what amounts to "because", I find it funny to have it in my signature. Grow a sense of humor.

The problem isn't from veteran players or hardcore players. It's new players that are screwed. I completely disagree that new players "aren't going to be competitive in pvp whether there's an UAX or not". There were hundreds of new players during the betas, and thousands such as myself that only had the opportunity to play 3 days out of every month, and we were all "competitive" with that handy UAS button. There are also some builds which work fairly well that don't require too much coordination. You repetitively completely undestimate the potential of a new player.

I've tried to get several of my friends to play Guild Wars, all of which from competitive backgrounds (RTS's, FPS's, etc.), and several from RPG's. The competitive players really hated the amount of time it took to achieve a simple build. Even IWAY requires 4-5 hours of random arenas faction farming (much more with un-upgraded premades). Aside from basic controls, most of the gamers I know have no trouble with learning to play guild wars. Using a build and making one up are completely different levels.

PvP = Balanced playing field. Kill each other and claim victory.
PvE = Character developement, role playing, item hunting, farming, missions, etc.

Is that somehow hard for you to understand? PvP + Character Developement = Bad.

Actually, before I bought the game, me and over a thousand other people thought they were getting the game they were advertised: a fun competitive game that cut out the stupid cliches of the RPG, that had both good PvE and open PvP.

Again with the "bitching". Quit bitching about my bitching and maybe you can start bitching for compromised improvements that would stop my bitching. Your irrelevant flaming is getting you nowhere.

I'm not the one who turned this into a UAX bitch thread. Every PvPer knows that's a pipedream (even if it's not their pipedream). The fact that players compromise but you are too stubborn to realize that they are willing to sacrafice some of their fun for the oppinions of other players aggrevates me. We were somewhat settled in with the current system, even if it was a grindfest and impossible to get a single friend, even a hardcore competitive gamer, into the game. That's not what's gotten on my nerves. It's that despite still existing unlock speed problems, and grind curve problems, and generally being forced to play one side of the game before you can have fun with the other, it is speculated that A.Net is now going to increase the severity of these problems by making the fastest way to unlock skills a rarity, in favor of what would appear to be a much slower way to do it. You can quit "bitching" at me over UAX. I'm in favor of it, but I'm not arguing over something that "is not in the game because we [A.net] never intended it to be in the game". That would be a waste of my time.

So your saying every single guild that has competed in the GWWC has been here since release? You may be right - I can't be certain. Even if you are correct, there isn't a single guild there that has recieved all their unlocks through faction. I would bet on it.

Actually, most of the members of my guild who have made PvP ready PvE characters have almost all their unlocks for those characters. Who would put in the time for a PvP ready PvE monk and have him only able to run a single build? That's just illogical.

At least we can agree on something.

I never said the entire PvP community agreed with me (maybe it's coincidence that most of the PvPers I know agree to some extent on these issues), and I apologize for misreading your PvE/P orientation. However it is not selfishness that drives my viewpoints - I just want everyone to have fun playing the way they want to play, as long as it doesn't trample over how someone else wants to play (and if it does, the players have to make compromises rather than screwing one type of gamer).

Why do PvP 'er whine sOOOooo much if they have to do a little grinding to get some of the good stuff? I remember going through this with Phrophecies. The PvE 's started owning the PvP'ers becasue we had our elites and greens...So they whine and whine ...finaly they descided they would actauly have to go out and cap some skills...found out it wasn't so bad...and all is well.

Geeze thank your lucky stars your not playing Lin2 guys...If done the Legit way; it can take up to two years of constant grinding to get your good skills. In full open anytime get PK ganked by Uber bored top level players; Losing exp every time you die: that's a long two years.

I mean jeez grab a Beverage and some buddies go kill some monsters. Make some cash and skill points (be sure to have fun doing it) and buy your skills. Or do the quests with a few differnt charcaters to unlock all the possible ones from that quest. (making money each time mind you)

When you buy any other computer game do you expect to be able to go strait to the last level, or the last boss fight with all the Uber gear and skills?

This isn't a FPS....it's an action adventure mmorpg.

This post made me laugh... "PvE's started owning PvP'ers because we had our elites and greens." That statement just made my day, I swear. I know greens are soooo powerful and PvP chars sooo don't have about the same items... Not to mention comparing early Prophecies to early Factions... when the situation is completely different... How many new players do you think there will be in Factions? Maybe 10-20% of the total amount of players? Should the rest grind because of those 10-20%? No. Should PvP players do PvE to unlock skills? No. If I were to rephrase your post from a PvP point of view, it's like saying that PvE'ers should start PvP-ing to get what they need for PvE... say 15k armor, or your precious greens. I hope you understand how much it doesn't make any sense...

Hun...they didn't back in the day.....when PvPer were all using premades....

For example...when the game was released there was not a bow that lengthened poison time in the PvP armory...you had to unlock the bowstring first..you could however get one in PvE pretty easy....(this was way long ago when poison actualy worked in PvP)

Now though they have ramped up the PvP items etc. Which is cool...so now when I make a new PvP build I don't have to go buy a weapon ....also faction come alot faster now so it is super easy to buy skills or weapon parts you need.

btw hun I am a PvP'er....I'm also a PvE'er now beacuse I was forced too....and turns out I like it....

If you have no interest in PvE though it's pretty easy to open builds with Bathazar Faction.

And my point does make sense....Ask Ray Lentless he'll explain it to you....

The point is you can unlock skills doing which ever you prefer PvP, or PvE...or both if you like...

So as you can see your post is the one that doesn't make any sense. No one is forced to do anything they don't like to unlock skills.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...

-----This post was cut short due to the endless (not to mention annoying) laughter from the poster-----

*Starts laughing too*....oh wait...

It happened I swear....three weeks after release everyone was screamming for an UASB..."unlock all skills button"

No one else remebers that? Did I dream that?

I remember getting whispers after matches where I had used Melandru's arrows to total ownage, ppl asking me what the skill was and how to get it....

(edited in an attempt to try and spell a few words correctly)

I like this idea... i prefer the idea it would take longer to obtain all the skills...

That would mean that when i hit lvl 20 there will be still much to do in the game ( now after u ascended all u had left to do was complete HP missions and after that have some fun with Glint quests )..

I would like even if the lvls wouldnt go up so fast... its no need for that... Going up so fast makes me feel like i am cheating... I like to work hard on char because it makes me feel i deserved the lvl.. game loses alot when u can lvl up to 20 lvl in a day or two...

What happened to games ( i.e. Baldurs gates, fall out ... ) where u played the game for few weeks to get to lvl 20. And during doing that, i didnt get bored of it ( doing quests, looking for some items u get from different boss mobs etc. )...

I approve the idea Anet came up with that u will have to obtain skills from mobs and not just the few elites we had to cap now...
At least there will be more to PvE after u hit lvl 20 and u ll have the reason to fully explore the map. Because of lousy drops and nerfing areas there r very few areas i go to now for drops or anything after i achieved the lvl 20. I hope this would change in factions and there will be drops in more than just a few places.

First: You still don't have most of the skills when you ascend. Most of the Elites and well...somewhat more useful skills are found after ascension.

Second: Do you really think levels go up fast? O.o On my..well....fifth playthrough with my ele it seems to be god-awful slow to level from 15 to 16 and 16 to 17.....and so on.

Third: I hope you don't still think that games lose a lot due to the reaching of a max level....most of Factions is designed to be for Level20 characters. Just a heads up ^_~


Fourth: I like choosing my skills, even if they take longer to get. IE: I play a geomancer, I like my geomancer skills: I don't want to be stuck as a pyromancer for the whole game :P

becuase my simple freind, Anet advertised that this wouldnt be the case.

I highly doubt there would be any of this "whining" as you so elequently put it, if they hadnt advertised the game the way they had.

they promised one thing, then gave something else instead.

You guys are all lazy. Go play wotmud.org and see if you can find a regular pvper who hasn't had to grind for 5-10 years before he was able to consider himself okay.

Hell, if you guys manage to even figure out how to level, I will be impressed.

Boo hoo.

This game is easy enough, and I'm glad Anet has taken away the quest system in favor of a more free form skill aquisition mode. I don't need to be babysitting npcs through some silly territory so that I can get a preselected skill. I have plenty of cash, and I am glad they are giving me something to spend it on, because GWP has overstayed its welcome.

Maybe if pvers spent more time farming, and less time sync dancing, it wouldn't be an issue.

Stop comparing Guild Wars to games that are far below it's innovation. It's disgraceful to everything A.Net has tried to accomplish. Guild Wars was meant to be a competitive game, and thus should follow the model for a competitive game such as an RTS or an FPS - not for an RPG which have never been competitive until now. In what RTS or FPS must you grind for 3-6 months before you're ready to hit PvP?

PS: Dove_Song is laughable, and Bhaaltazar is playing the wrong game.

hi

were you even aware that this is not either a FPS or a RTS?

since it is not either of those pray tell why you think it should follow those rules?

i am aquiver with anticipation for a truly scathing remark.

asbestos jammies on.............proceed

and you should correct that to read play pvp on a level i think i deserve to be at

RPG's are not competitive games. They never have been, and until Guild Wars came about, I haven't seen any tournaments for RPG's. For the past X years of their existance, RPG's have always been about putting in time, and then using your überweapons to kill enemies regardless of most skill (unless two maxed out characters collide by coincidence).

Guild Wars is a "Competitive" Online RPG. Being "Competitive", Guild Wars should follow a "Competitive" model that competitive games have followed. While Guild Wars is not an RTS or and FPS, it is closely related to them in the fact that it is meant to be "Competitive", and thus should follow a model much closer to these two genres. (see SaloboB's post a page back).

Lastly, while this competitive model would allow the competitive side of the game (PvP) to expand, gain more players, liberate the metagame, and generally allow for more versatile fun, it would have no effect on the parts of the game that are not meant to be competitive (PvE) - Just the way Starcraft doesn't make you unlock units in competition, but allows for a good compaign mode, and the way CounterStrike has a good competitive mode, but also allows for a great non-competitive mode in Half Life.

PS: I didn't understand your last remark: Care to elaborate?

Fair warning, this is a bit long. It's broken up into points though, so you can get a decent idea of it if you just read the first sentence or two of each paragraph :P

I'd go so far as to say GuildWars isn't even an RPG, especially in its PvP aspect. Let's look at what it has that's supposed to make it one:

One of the main points of RPGs are an immersive storyline where your character's personality is revealed or developed as you progress through it. While some may feel GW has an acceptable story, I found it ridiculously shallow. I never got any decision as to where to go next (Aside from skipping ahead by just ignoring missions, and since I just land further along in the story that doesn't help anything) and never felt like my character had any personality. It was all me following orders given by random people. A Charr could have walked up to me, explained he was a good guy, and asked me to go kill other Charr for him and I'd have gone off and done it without a question asked. Yay? As well, you don't even have to do the story to progress the story, which just ruins the immersion of the game. (See my comment about skipping ahead)

Another point of RPGs is that your character is supposed to grow in experience as you progress through the story. Ideally you'll grow at a pace that the game stays challenging the entire way through. Unfortunately, GW fails at this too: You level up enough in presearing if you explore it thoroughly (And come on, the only time you shouldn't explore thoroughly is if you're not playing an RPG) that from that point on you stay ahead of the difficulty curve. Combine that with skills being utterly unrelated to your levels, and you have a game where levels don't matter. Add in the extra fact that all the serious PvP occurs at level 20, and this aspect of RPGs has really just been tossed out the window.

A third aspect of RPGs is equipment, that you're supposed to find as you progress. GW does about the same thing to equipment that it does to levels: Caps out early, and then leaves you there. Finding that valuable item is only a thrill if you like gold stuff, as 99% of gold items are junk compared to white items that you add parts to yourself.

A final aspect of RPGs is skills acquired by your character, and even that has been unlinked to your progress. You don't have to reach a certain part of the story to get skills, you can skip ahead and buy advanced abilities, then come back. Plus the way skills aren't supposed to be more effective than each other (Just different, right?) really makes it difficult to assign when each should become available.

So, four aspects of an RPG. One point to consider in all four (Not one of them makes it) of these is that they have no part whatsoever to GW's PvP: There is no story reasons behind the Hall of Heroes, there are no story reasons that it's linked to the UW/FoW. There's no in-game story for why the guilds fight each other in their competitive ladder.

I'm sure there are other aspects that could be looked at, but these are all that GuildWars has really managed to capture. And now, let's look at a First Person Shooter: Planetside.

Planetside has a storyline. It's set up three competing sides, each with their own agenda and need to dominate. Right there is more story than GW has managed to infuse into its PvP. Character development never happens, but hey it's an FPS. I feel like I know my Planetside character as well as I know my GW character, which is really sad.

Planetside has levels. As you kill people and capture bases, you gain experience. As you gain experience, you gain access to better weapons, armor, and abilities. Sounds a lot like what you gain in a normal RPG, right?

Planetside has equipment. You choose what gear you want, and as you progress in the game you get access to more, and better, combinations of gear.

Planetside has abilities. There are implants that allow your character to perform feats not available to lower level players. There is gear that affects what you can and can't do. This all comes with experience earned.

So, Planetside has all the aspects of an RPG that GW does...and it has them in its PvP. Does that make it an RPG? Not at all. Does that mean GW really doesn't qualify as an RPG, especially when you're looking at its PvP parts? I'd say it definately disqualifies it.

GW Factions is attempting to change these things. That doesn't take away Prophecies though, or the fact that it falls miserably short. As well, with the base gameplay of GW, there's very little Factions can do to add more of the necessary aspects. The best it seems to be achieving is giving your character choices (But only who you're saying yes to) and attempting to bring some story into why people PvP. Not really enough to classify the competitive parts of it as RPG.

Guildwars is more of an adventure game, like Zelda. The rules change even more when you tack Competitive onto it. Whatever it is though, it's certainly not much of an RPG.

Thank you to everyone who has engaged in discussion of the topic (Factions will have a new skill acquisition system for PVE where you will have to buy or capture most skill instead of getting skills as quest rewards) and especially thank you to everyone who has provided suggestions of ways to improve upon the new skill acquisition system. The more feedback ANet gets about the new system, the more they can improve it and make the skill acquisitions system as fair and rewarding as possible. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming!

And not to be rude, but for people who are angry/disappointed that they have not changed the skill acquisition/unlock system for PVP players in Factions, please make a new thread and discuss your feedback and suggestions to improve PVP unlocks for Factions. This will make it easier for people to engage in discussion by separating the PVE and PVP unlock issues, and make it easier for devs to read the discussions regarding each of these different systems. While there are clearly things to debate about the unlocking systems for PVE and PVP, they really do need to be separated. Thanks.

I don't see how it suddenly became a PvE discussion. Sure doesn't say it in the topic... Plus ANet are so devoted to integrity that if they could mingle PvE and PvP more they sure would. Instead of separating the two game mods, ANet have consistantly mingled them closer and closer together. Plus the issue is one and the same- the grind, or the supposed lack of it, when it comes to skill acquisition.

So far, the PvE side hasn't been interfered with too much by PvP. I'm hoping that Factions, and the new town control over Elite Missions will change this and gain PvEer's some first hand experience about how much it sucks for your favorite side of the game to be bound inexplicably to the other.

These skill aquisition changes affect both sides of the game. It doesn't seem like it would affect PvE as much though, since most PvEers don't try to get all the skills on their characters unless they are getting them PvP ready. Hopefully, the different skill aquisition will break away from this all eles must be fire eles first sort of thing.

yah elite missions is gonna screw a lot of pve'rs who cant get on the good side of the right pvp guilds.

im glad ill have some pve characters built for pvp by that stage and can farm those areas and then sell that stuff at super inflated prices to the pve crowd, despite already having a fairly filled up bank acct from early sigil sales.

its funny enough now that people who want to play fow and uw complain that they have to pvp to get access.

now they are gonna miss out on a lot of end game content coz they wont pvp.

haha

its hilarious that pvp'rs complain that they cant enjoy their focus of the game because they have to unlock, and then the pve'rs say stop whining.

how the tables turn i spose.

Ok, sorry, since the Q&A posted from the interview with ANet was talking about Quests that give Skills as a reward, and purchasing skills from Skill Trainers, since PVP does not have quests and skill trainers and skill points I assumed people would devise that the skill acquisition changes are for PVE players. It was a PVE discussion for like the first six pages until it got all jumbled with the PVP discussions thrown in here. Not that either PVP or PVE is the best, just that they are so different that it makes it difficult to adequately discuss either one when they are thrown together in a conversation.

I see that many PVP people also play PVE characters just to get skills faster, since they are unhappy about the speed of the PVP unlocking system. So if you guys are pissed that they are changing the PVE skill acquisition in a way that will take you more time to get skills on your PVE characters, which are your skill mules, it's still really a PVE-related issue at hand. The fact that some PVP players also make PVE characters for the sole purpose of faster skill unlocks is related to the issue of the PVP unlock system being slow/broken/retarded etc. PVP players should not have to play PVE if they don't want to. If they changed the PVP unlock system to UAS or 5x faster unlocks and negated the need to make PVE characters to get skills, would PVP-only players give a damn about how anything works on the PVE side? I'm betting no. Maybe ANet's responses so far make it sound suckier than it will be - who knows, the new PVE skill acquisition system might be awesome. Is that going to make PVP players happy? Not really, when they still want their unlocking system to be changed. So what you really want is "Fix PVP unlocks so we can play PVP only and not grind for hundreds of hours" and it needs a separate thread. Nothing personal to anyone, it just works out better for both topics to organize the discussions separately.

And yes, linking PVP and PVE in regards to accessing an area (Elite Missions, FOW, UW) is retarded. All that it does is piss people off. It's nice that they have given alternate high-level areas, but they'll never hear the end of the complaining until they unlink PVP and PVE, and from reading Gaile's recent chatlog they are apparently trying to do just that. Just as no PVP player should have to play PVE if they don't want to, PVE players should not have to play PVP if they don't want to. They are completely different game types and most people are likely to only like one and not the other. Unlinking PVP and PVE = happier customers on both sides.

Changing free skill from quests to earning money and skill points from quests will only effect PvE players. It will still be easier to buy skills than it is to farm faction, right?

I think your last point is what Anet is hoping what will happen, although honestly I see people using the same "most popular" skills anyway, because they'll want to save money.

The fact is, skills are popular (mostly) because they work. A skill that doesn't work will not be popular, whether the skill is "free" or has to be bought.

It will be interesting to see whether early access to a skill will change it's popularity, however.

[QUOTE=Weezer_Blue] not for an RPG which have never been competitive until now.
QUOTE]

Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Castle sieges that involve a hundered players. etc etc.

Guild wars is a great game...but it is hardly the "First" to do anything. It is a combonation of most games before it. In fact I can't think of any feature in the game that I have not seen in another MMO some place.

That being said they put the game together in a wonderful way.

[QUOTE=Dove_Song] Lineage 2

Full open Player killing at any time....

Castle sieges that involve a hundered players. etc etc.

Guild wars is a great game...but it is hardly the "First" to do anything. It is a combonation of most games before it. In fact I can't think of any feature in the game that I have not seen in another MMO some place.

That being said they put the game together in a wonderful way.

PvP alone doesn't make a game competitive. It has to be designed with PvP balance as one of the primary goals, and game types designed for people to be able to judge how skilled they are vs. other people.

That castle siege you described is a horrible example of a competitive mode, as there'd be no way to tell how good any individual involved was.

Edit: BTW, you might want to be sure you hit the edit button instead of the quote button, when you want to edit your post. It works better.

[QUOTE=Dove_Song]Ah, one of the beauties of GW, the absence of this.

In the second part of the interview of VGM with Jeff strain, he mentioned that Ascended GWP characters will enter into Canthan at approximately end of 1/5 of the story line and will have access to skill quest as per normal to gain new Factions skills.

That contradicts Gaile, who says there will be less skill quests, and more quests for gold and skill points to compensate.

I doubt there will be skill quests in the last 1/5 of the game.

DISCLAIMER: All conjecture based on reading chat logs.

I don't think it's contradictary. What Jeff said probably just meant the skill point quests. And it's not that GWP characteres only play the last 1/5 of the game, they enter Cantha at 1/5 of the story line, which means they can play the rest 4/5 of the whole content, so there will be plenty of skill quests or skill point quests to do. I think what Anet wants to do is to let the majority of skills available as early as possible and let the players choose what skill they want to buy and use, thus create more variety. So they reduced or eliminated skill quests which give specific skills to each profession, instead they will give more skill point quests, with the skill point reward, players can easily choose and buy whatever skills they want.

and that fits EXACTLY with what Alex Weekes of NCSoft said months ago that 80 % of the Factions chapter was level 20 content

Ahh, that sounds much better. I misread the "end of 1/5" bit.

BTW, for those stressing about the costs of skills for your new character:

Buying your first 19 skills fresh will cost 5,550 gold total. After that, each skill costs 1,000. (if my math is correct, based on Guild wiki)

/Total agreement

Ack. That quote was "pre-Gaile". I have since changed my mind, and am now actually looking forward to buying the skills I want instead of getting useless free ones. I believe this will actually end up being the same "grind", or possibly even less...

I guess I should go back an edit my earlier posts...

Why can't they make it cheaper? Maybe 500g would do at least. I really hate having to farm, salving materials, selling the materials, then repeat.

Why the hell are we forced to farm to get money?

They did make it cheaper, they capped it at 1k

Bringing this back up; looks like the gold rewards are nowhere near what some of us were expecting. In general the average reward is about a few hundred gold. Commendations help to alleviate the need for gold a bit, but I'm wondering if they can have done more to help with skill acquisation.

unless someone found skill quest that our Tyria ascended toons can do to gains skills in Cantha, we have been lied to by Jeff Strain who said other wise in his second interview with VGM:

http://www.vgmfusion.com/get.php?web..._Daily_E47.mp3

Q9. Will ascended Guild Wars characters who travel to Cantha need to buy every Faction only skill with skill points and gold? Or will quests allow players to gain the skills? (Time: 12.36 on the interview)

And as expected new players who started playing their new characters have already been reported to have gimp themselves by buying skills they dont really need and finding it hard to afford skills and armour after.

Edit for the added insult.