Nerf 55 - other then skills

Yeh Nerf the 55's too easy money and monks r ugly anyway x.x

This was unnecessary. Disagree with me fine. But that kind of comment only shows a lack of class and a lack of respect for another person's opinion.


Now to actually address the more intelligent portion of your response, you seem to disagree with my interpretation of skill. Taking PVP out of the equation, a farming build designed to prey on specific weaknesses in the game mechanics requires little skill to use. Yes the original creator of said build had a lot of skill and creativity in designing it but thats as far as it goes. A true measure of skill involves how one reacts and adjusts to a truly dynamic environment. When you know ahead of time what you will fight and what they will be using, you have removed much of the skill and strategy. I for one want a dynamic environment where I have to make tactical decisions based on what my AI opponents are using against me and come up with creative ideas on how to best use the limited amount of resources at my disposal. In a static environment which is what exists now, once you create a build for a certain area, most of the skill and strategy goes out the window. If you know that the monsters can't remove any enchantments then you no longer have to adjust on the fly and come up with tactical solutions to react to a stripped enchantment that suddenly puts you on the defensive.

Agree with first paragraph.

Second paragraph ..... "Taking PvP out of the equation ....." Sounds to me that what you are describing is PvP.

You know it be a lot easier IF in every part in the map (the GOOD farming ones) the enemies had either necro and mesmers or necro and mesmer as secondary professions so they could strip/remove enchantments.

Furthermore it be a lot easier to just currently nerf out the Runes -75 hp effect by making them non stackable if they repeat the same rune, so if the person uses two Superior Smiting rune only one -75 hp is in effect.

Finally farming would be a lot more "controlled" if say accounts in a whole where affected by the time they spend farming. So X account spends Y time farming his/her drop rate becomes Z% LESS. This affects EVERY character in that account forcing that person to not be farming 24/7 and giving time for his/her account to cool down. Maybe they should include a bonus X% when farmers go in team instead of solo...

I read a document on Guild Wars economics and I believe that Guild Wars require not just cash sinks but also as he stated cash loops in order to control the games economy.

You could also deliberately drop ecto prices by making them uncommon for a time but I find this unlikely to happen...

All these are just suggestions Im not really affected by PvE farming nor care much about it.

lol, in a small way it does (thus my earlier indication that this would prove to be a far more instructive way to lure people into PVP than what currently exists). However, I don't know of any programmer to date that can code up an AI routine that emulates a real thinking human so its still far below the challenge level of beating human controlled characters. I just think the overall PVE experience would be much improved with some variety and unexpected surprises thrown in

I also agree with your post. Like I said itd be a lot easier if monsters where spawned with Necro and Mesmer as either primary or secondary to deal with enchantments in almost every important "farming" map. That would force players to adapt on the fly as well as be more "skilled".

I dont intend though that Enchantments are unplayable in PvE or that every monster has Necro and Mesmer as primary and secondary, just that in every spawned set of monsters at least a few have this abilities. This will make 55 farmers a lot harder to play with.

As way as an example suppose 55 "monk" enters X map to "farm". In said map there are exactly Y mobs. In EVERY ONE of these Y mobs there are at least 2~Z monsters with Necro and/or Mesmer as primary and/or secondary with enchantment removal. This scenario would make the 55 "monk" unable to rely completely on their enchantments as their is a possibility his/her enchants will get removed.

Nope, a couple of necros or mesmers can screw any 55 up bad. No need to nerf it. A-net could stop the runs easy if the put one necro with rend outside the door and folow up with one warrior in 2 hits... bye bye 55 bots

I like your suggestion Quozz. I think it would be a realy nice touch to have a bit more randomness when it comes to where/what classes the monsters spawn at/as. Of course there would have to be some safe zone like when you leave town and first enter an enemy spawned area. It would suck to leave town and get jumped by three lvl24+ mobs of 8 or more each sometimes before the loading screan catches up. So /signed to having random spawn locations and random mob make up with random skill sets. But have some spawn free zones at rez shrines and portals.

Since almost all (if not all) solo and paired farm builds require knowing the skills and behavior of the enemy being farmed before hand then by making it randomized it wouldn't be possible anymore.

Your post was ignorant. I'm sorry if I hurt your little feelings. Here have a hanky and let this drip into your brain case. A dynamic environment is too expensive, not cost effective to program and would require too many server resources. From a purely business standpoint what you want done cannot be done and still keep Guild Wars free. AI cannot be more complex than it is. I love how you people always want to make the AI smarter. Again this is ignorance. You obviously have no clue what is involved in programming AI. I know why don't we just start making the game CD's out of solid gold and we could also run diamond fiberoptic cable from the server straight to everyone's computer while we are at it. Now take into consideration the fact that this is the best you people can do when it comes to offering nerf suggestions for farming. You've run out of ideas that won't cost more than they are worth to implement and yet you wonder why ANet doesn't seem to be doing anything. so of course they won't do anything because everytime you offer a suggestion like this it involves some broad sweeping program change. I've already told you how they could stop farming with one line of code. I know they know it too. This is nothing less than tacit approval. They do not care about the player farmers and we are the ones that set the economy because the "sweatshoppers" and Bots are in it just for gold sales. We decide how much that nifty new rare fellblade we found is worth. All they care about is stopping the second party trade. We're here to stay but if it makes you feel better to offer pointless suggestions and to cry about being poor an unable to afford what you need then go ahead. Keep in mind though it is because of our farming that greens have now gotten down to an affordable level as well as crafting materials. Remember when one ecto was 10K? Yeah farming picks up supply increases now 6K. You can cry inflation but that's not right either. If we were creating extra money in the economy then prices would go up because the buying power of a plat would decrease. Victos axe 20K! I can get one for 7 now. Like I said in the other thread the only items that are 100's of plat are what you would call vanity items. In a real economy they are luxury items and luxury items aren't supposed to be affordable to the masses. If nothing else it's the farmers that are helping you afford things. We have to undercut the trader prices in order to move product. So you tell me how are we gouging you? How are we hurting you? Seems to me that you all want to get rich quick either that or you hate to see other's prosper. If anything else you should encourage us to keep bringing you the stuff you want at prices your tiny little storage accounts can afford. Sure it's not that rare murasaat horn bow 15^50 with all kinds of nifty mods on it but then again you're not meant to afford that. That's for players with money. You can get a green with good mods and perfect damage for cheap and really that's all you need to play and be effective. You don't need the things you see going for 100's of plat you just want them and can't afford them. Too bad.

OMG, here's the expert.. LOL

But he's right
Some n00bs just talk shit they don't even know what there talking about.
Nerf this, do that..
This game must be playable for everyone ^_^

That's 1 point, second is..

I said this before in the very beginning of this useless thread
As jaloes people say nerf something, what make's the 55hp Monk not exist anymore.. BUT that's impossible, we will survive !!

Go nerf my PANTS, my Monk will farm anyway !!

Actually one of my guildies is doing a paper on the Guild Wars Economy for her Economics course this semester. I'll be sure to repost it. She's given her permission for it. I think a lot of people will be suprised about just how good the economy has actually gotten and also how little some aspects of it have changed. Now I've said it before and I'll say it again. ALL solo farming could be stopped with the implementation of one IF THEN statement. Now if you believe that the professional programmers at ANet haven't realized this then you must be flat out gullible. IF party size is < 2 THEN disallow rezone to instanced area from town. It's that simple. No more farming with 55's. No more solo farming. That in conjunction with the anti farming code they have already implemented would stop it entirely. To me this says they tacitly approve of some farming while you people want the complete elimination of it.

Alright, if I understand that all correctly you're not totally against 55 builds, you just want every class to be able to farm the same areas. Understandable. I'll tell you what I know, I know a warrior build that can farm UW solo. I know a MESMER build that can farm it solo. I know there is PROBABLY an ele build that can do it, and obviously the necro and the monk can. Hell, I think the ranger is the one left out here, and I'm pretty sure he could come up with a build.

Not every class can do it with Just their class (Like Straight Necro or Straight Ele) Like mesmers, warriors and monks can.

55 builds come to every class, hell I myself used a warrior and 55'd griffons outside camp rankor for quite awhile. Personally, I hated the nerf of AOE skills >.< I know that farming would cause tons more "depression," but god, going into a group of 20 animals and killing them all in like 30 seconds was fun. Woohoo Balthazaurs Aura!


Call me dumb if ya want but what is this "Anti-Farming Code" ?

I would suggest one thing, do let us all know her knowledge level before posting. If you need my reason to ask for this specific thing, well... i need to know what i am reading is not a doing of a new economics student. Looking forward to it by the way.

Can't write too much in my post today, got an exam in few hours from now.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

1. the 55 monk build does not revolve around exploiting game glitches
2. making rune -hp not stack still doesnt do anything. Think, 55 elementalist
3. Health regeneration is SUPPOSED to stack. Otherwise mending and many other skills would be pointless, example: well of blood and mending.

You're retarded, leave.

EDIT: something else to add about nerfing prot spirit. I have a build that uses prot bond that works excellent. Not about to go and give it away though.

Only thing I see changing about the 55-Build is making Protective Spirit be for target other ally, instead of them casting on themselve. I don't see a real problem with 55s, and I am sure Anet has put in monsters that will not allow the 55s to farm the new areas right away. If anyone did the preview event, several of the monsters were Necromancers, with several degeneration spells, this alone will prevent the average 55 to farm away, it would take skill to farm, like it does anywhere else, it is simply a build, like SS, or a MM. If Anet hasn't nerfed it by now, I doubt it ever will. As for the farmers in Droks Int Dis1, every game has these farmers, WoW, Lineage, all the big online based games with an economy has this in common. Being able to solo is not cheating, it is using strategy and skill, as well as looking at the skills and finding something that works, just as the developers intended.

I didn't read all posts completely but it seems this is another one of those topics that go nowhere.

So blah


1. Please stop calling it "chinese farming" "korean farming" or "asian farming".
Reason for that: don't be racist/Extreme-nationalist

2. Please stop calling it "abusive farming".
Reason for that: preserve the English language
Abusive
1. Characterized by improper or wrongful use: abusive utilization of public funds.
2. Using or containing insulting or coarse language: finally reprimanded the abusive colleague.
3. Causing physical injury to another: abusive punishment.
4. Relating to or practicing sexual abuse.

A better term would be "efficient killing of melee mobs".

3. Please be nice

That sentence worries me.

lol, he meant to randomize the spawn locations and mix around the monsters builds, so they arent the same everytime.

Guy's Anet is ownd by a KOREAN company and have just opend up new servers all over asia, and they are very interessted in making money, every new server(country) in asia has the potential to attract more ppl than US and EU togheter so I don't think the will nerf farming when 1 person in "XXXXX" will buy 20-200 games for a pro-farm shop and set up bot's. NC-Soft makes money per sold game not on players who play for years. ECONOMICS 3 billion asians as potential customers or 500 million happy westerners LOL do the math.

Wow after reading page nine I saw nothing but insult being thrown in by those who support the excessive farming while none by those against.

Quozz posted some really nice ideas that would make the game a bit more challenging and less predictable and would make solo or even paired farming extremely difficult if not impossible. His post was well thought out and wasn't an insult to anyone but what was one of the first replies to his post. Your post was ignorant. I think you have to look up the meaning of ignorant because there was nothing ignorant about it. Just showed that maybe your the ignorant one to be personally attacking others that made a simple post just because you don't agree with it.

55 monks drop prices if you dont use them and are an effective way to farm if you do. If arenanet really wanted to nerf them, they would add the tag "this cannot reduce damage below xx".

Again farming does not reduce prices. The itmes that are found and brought in are circulated around the public and are handle in just a way combined with human nature to cause the prices to generally go unchanged. It's the money brought in by those that repetitively farm that allows (not necessarily causes) prices to be so high especially for those items not sold at any merchant or trader. If people couldn't be able to bring in the gold that they do by solo or even paired farming then noone would have the money to buy an item for 100k+. This would mean for someone that was lucky enough to find a rare item (since rare isn't really rare anymore now that anyone can solo an area and get atleast one rare drop per run) would have no choice but to sell it at 30-50k since noone would have the money to buy it at 100k or more.

You don't need the items that cost 100k+. They are luxury items. Most of my items are just collectors weapons/offhands and even armor - except for my Ranger who does have 15k (thanks to a generous guild).

I'm not going to say that farming raises/lowers the price of items or helps/hinders the economy. I don't play GW for an economic model. I play to have fun. When none of my Guild or Friends are online, I do a few farming runs. When they are - I quest/mission with them. If they need something - weapon, offhand, or armor - and they can't get it - I'll go farm for the drops then get (or help them get if it's armor) the stuff for them.

Most of the drops are salvaged, sold to merchants, or given to Guildmembers or friends.

Japan is allready playing Fictions lol I guess NC-Soft got tired of hearing about all this nerfing farming and gave the big time farmers a headstart on all of us. Lets see what this will do to the PRICES on RARE HIGH END items.

[/QUOTE]
then noone would have the money to buy an item for 100k+. This would mean for someone that was lucky enough to find a rare item (since rare isn't really rare anymore now that anyone can solo an area and get atleast one rare drop per run) would have no choice but to sell it at 30-50k since noone would have the money to buy it at 100k or more.
[/QUOTE]

and where would that leave 15K armor and FOW armor items put there by ANET to be bought by players, Anet did set the prices on those, no amount of farming or anything else done to the economi in the game will change that.

I agree with you completely. You don't need a lot of the things available in the game to beat it (speaking PvE purely) it's all a matter of want. Everyone likes to improve on their character whether it's needed or not, that's part of the fun. But should the items be priced so high that those who don't have any fun farming can't afford them unless they do or spend up to 8 times the amount of hours (some which probably don't have) a solo farmer does to be able to afford it. Plus it would be nice to have more to show for completing almost everything there is in the game. Dunno, just seems to take the Fun away from the game when you have to do more than what you should to be at the same level as those that repetively farm because of their farming. Now the farming you do is the kind I used to. That there is casual farming and will actually encourage prices to go down since (as you say) you sell everything you don't give away or use to the trader or merchant or salvage.

if they ALSO nerf the 55hp monk... ALOT people simply just stop...

[sarcasm]they can also nerf fow and underworld cosue they are to good to farm.. they also should nerf al the f*cking enemys so we can farm at al... will you be happy then?[/sarcasm]

and if you dont like 55hp monks. stop playing guildwars ar just ignore it.. your not pushed to make an 55hp monk right?

So much for nerfing the 55's
I just went to Droks int.1 and bought a FFS 15% from a korean, and he told me they still get them from the collector, so it was only nerft on US and EU servers. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU.

I really have to say...I don't even know what "economy" you guys are talking about? I used to play PVE only and I accumulated 1000k gold and stacks of rare stackables with the first 3 months, and yes, with a 55 hp monk...the point is, if you want the stuff that GW has to offer that actually costs alot, build a 55 monk and I promise you in no time you will have whatever it is you want, but, I also promise you, that unless you belong to the very, very minute percent of the population that likes to gather as much wealth as possible, you will be very bored with farming very quickly and only use your 55 monk when you need a few quick "k", 99% of the time I sell very nice items very cheap because I only need a few thousand gold to help out a guildie for pvp. I agree with the person that said, the real problem are the bots, they are the ones bringing too much gold into the "economy". One more thing, if you are the type of player that wants really rare things (crystalline sword, fissure armor), use the best tool we have to get...a 55 monk, then get out and play and show off your uber items

Oh ya, wanted to add something about someones comment...the UW is still very easy to do as a 55 monk SOLO, I can do it in around 60 minutes with usually no interupts of SoJ, and that is ALL smites and ALL cows, but, like I said, I do that only to help out guildies and we never have favor anymore anyways

By first 3 month do you mean when the game first came out because unless you have a bot running 24/7 anyone new to the game will never see all that as quickly as you did.

God this pointless debate is still raging on? And yet somehow Gaile hasn't responded. Hmmm that should tell you something right there. Anyway as for your thing that everyone should be able to afford high end items without farming well what you really want is a short cut. You don't want to find your own items you want to be able to buy them cheap. You don't have to farm but if you don't farm then be prepared to go without what you want until you find it yourself during the regular course of play. Those of us that don't want to wait that long we farm. It's as simple as that. the guild wars economy represents a model known as perfect competition. It is an IDEAL economic model. Perfect competition means you have an infinite number, or nearly infinite number, of competitive brokers all catering to the buyer. The only thing that really ruins the economy is second party gold sales. Drops like you want are rare. that is why the price is high. It doesn't matter if they found the things during the normal course of play or if they farmed them the price will remain the same because of the rarity of the item. Diamonds don't jump up in value because one was found by some goober plowing a potato feild and the rest were found by mining a rich field. The price remains the same. This thread should be closed because it isn't accomplishing anything except giving you a place to whine. Prices are set. they are locked. Outside of a massive influx of said items into the general population the price will never go down. The people that already made their bit will continue to pay premiums to people with the items they want. In fact I'll go so far as to say that I will pay 100K out of spite now just to keep the price high because I despise people like you so much. Actually I put out this call to all the people with some cash in this game. Keep on paying high prices and keep on selling high. This is a player run economy. If these people want to whine then let's show them what a little economic manipulation can do to their precious prices. When high end items start selling for 100K +50 ecto and more I bet you shut the hell up about farming and wish things would go back to the way they were.

Got me LMAO Str0b0. Totally agree. You see rare vintage cars being auctioned off for millions. Reason? They are rare vanity items. In game as in real life these very expensive items are not needed. You can get around with an affordable car. You may want that rare vintage auto but you can't have it unless you have the gold. Play the game the way you want to, but don't carry on because someone decided to work for more gold to by a rare skinned perfectly modded sword for 100K +

I think stockholm nailed it.

Making money is more important then keeping customers. That is soo true.

Wow the pm I got (from an active farmer as they claim) is true. You people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a hole in the ground and a toilet. It wouldn't be a shortcut since farming is the shortcut. See you just don't want to lose your shortcut. When it comes to farming anet is all for people being innovative and original when it comes to their character and be successful. They are fully aware that people will find ways to get gold twice as fast but this becomes a problem when people find ten times the amount of gold (as stated by anet themselves). They get that gold through repetitive farming. Whether it's by a bot or an actual person it doesn't matter. The rare items cost alot because they are rare, I will agree with you on that but as rare as they are they are priced as they are because people can afford them. If people couldn't afford them then the price would have to be lower in order for it to sell but as long as people continue to repetitively farm then they will be bring in the 'ten times the amount of gold of a regular player' that anet mentioned (as stated by anet themselves). So the prices will be up to eight times higher than they should be since a solo farmer can get gold eight times faster than someone in a full party of eight. So in short because of the affects of repetitive farming, those that play the game normally are forced play eight times longer unless we get lucky and the we find a good drop. So as anet said because of repetitive farming in order for me or anyone else who plays normally to compete we would have to farm. It's as simple as that.

I've already backed my *rants* with proof and further proof being the prices that rare items are being successfully sold at while at the same time the decrease in drop quality that occured after some updates. "Hmmm that should tell you something right there". So while I carry on with proven arguments it is you who is ranting and whining with only speculation and what you *think* is right.

http://www.guildwars.com/press/inter...e-friday61.php

Tweeks like nerfing the 55hp build the best they could without ruining the class creating an imbalance. Tweeks like decreasing the drop quality. I believe people have already mentioned on the forums how they remember how good the drops used to be compared to what they are now. That farming doesn't bring in the gold it used to. It's because anet saw a problem and made tweeks (as they call it) to correct the economy the best they could (hence the drop in prices after some updates and not because there are more farmers like you tend to *think* bringing in more supply) to bring prices down to where normal players can afford to trade.

Meh .... enough talking. Think I'll go do some extreme farming and mess up the economy even more.

Indeed toss that financial clout about monty. Remember the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules.

why else would of A-net put this -50hp item in the game if it wasnt to be used is all i have to say....

I think that everyone has 4 character slots. Its your choice on how you want to play. If you wish to try to get a team of 8 and go farming feel free. If you'd rather work solo, feel free. The choice is yours, would you rather win the royal rumble or the survivor series, after all, when you win the royal rumble you get a shot at the Championship, whereas when you win the survivor series, what do you get......
















Regardless to if that makes sense to you or not, it made plenty of sense to me and that is what counts.

*Toss you over the top rope*

This thread is pretty much dead and pointless to carry on.

Go see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3013773

Since it is making better progress with the good ideas being thrown in by all.
Plus after seeing all the post you have made, you look like a repetitive farmer.

I read only the OP and i m rofl !!!!!

so? what could i say to him .. lol

i think u have no idea of how farming works ... farming isnt based on 55 monk, as for myself i got one i made myself the first months after the game was released .. okay was nice for the ectos til they add nightmares, still doable but sooo boring wanna see my monk today? it's been 7 months i use it as a craft material mule character

u can farm with ANY profession even if some are a bit better than the others ..

so what? jealous cauz u couldnt do it as well? jealous cauz ppl got ideas? jealous cauz ppl have more money than the "average casual player" ? u know, there ll always be ppl with more money than others ^^

u are using the word "glitch" well dude check yer dictionnary for a sec
it means u are getting stuff with BUGS or EXPLOITS that some kinda cheating ... well if we go that way, GW is full of cheater and millions of accs ll be banned since they UPGRADED STUFF WITH RUNES omg that's so lame !!! runes !! runes, a legit game component !! so yes burn em all

And here it is boys and girls the way to stop bots cold in there tracks , dont nerf everything, dont remove farming from the game. Its as simple as 5 random leters/numbersbotfix.jpg looks like crap but you get my point every time you enter a exp area enter a code if you flame me saying thats to anoying then you can STFU about the bot problem becuse you really dont care.
make a random image with a 5 sec timer to enter the code if you dont you dont get to enter the area

And vanity items are just that there for looks a gold sink you can make armor with fissure stats at droks. You want a good sword theres a collector that has max damage + 15 in stance out side of camp rankor so yes the everyday player can be in even step with us that play almost everyday

annoying but hard time for em