Nerf 55 - other then skills

Oh yes.... if 55 was removed from the game (about half which is simply built on farming ....errr... looking for items to use/sell), then all the farming will stop as you think needs be done. Great idea for a limited capacity cranium.

People should get all gold from repeating missions or pvp right?

All the farmers will use whatever they choose to use to farm regardless, and if you don't like farming, then you might want to look for a new game.

Lastly, if crying for nerfs wasn't so prevelant, we'ed probably not have had those which we have had thus far in the first place, but that probably makes many ituwl buybuyies a bit unhappy.... awe.....

Here's a thought that some could say is close to already the case ... everyone make a 55er Then they will at least experience that second profession enough to be able to use it for possible other helps in guild battles/groups/etc when needed. Who doesn't love a monk or someone that can "lemme go grab my monk." This expands the game for many rather then hurt.

....Great way to run a much repeated topic up as a long thread here... maybe that was what was really after with the original post??

YAY!! Now we have 3 or 5 people out farming together! Whoohoo!! That just makes life grand doesn't it! Kumbaya.........

Not prepaired to read any of the other posts, but there are no glitches or bugs with the 55 build, it works exactly as its meant to.

Well you can hardly blame them for nerfing the 55 monk soloing.

I first got my 55-monk a few weeks before the AoE Patch (runes cost me 100k ffs!) but the run was frigging easy. You could storm the entire place with ease thanks to mass damaging AoE smiting spells in no time at all and keep all the rewards for yourself. It was either sort it out somehow, make ecto drops so rare at the start that trapper teams have no use either or nerf the 55 monk.

Guess which they picked? Now we have 2-man teams going down there with what seems to be dimishing drops. Problem solved now stop whining for more nerfs.

55 is situational, like so many other builds. Try taking a 55 on a FoW spider run, and youll see how little it really needs to be nerfed.

Another good reason. Only very specific places can be farmed with that build. Anything that removes enchantments or causes massive degen or interrupts (mesmers in other words) the build is useless. If you took this build back to Ascalon you'd still struggle to kill some enemies there.

Did I say they were difficult? I believe I said they should be as difficult to kill as the ones in the FoW. Try reading before you put you foot in you mouth.

That was the plan..Instead of 3 or 5 people soloing a spot getting the full 100g from a kill each they are forced to go in a group so the 100g is split between them. So for a group of five instead of 500g per kill coming into the economy you have 20g per kill. This makes for a major drop in the influx of gold coming in which in turn brings the inflated prices down. Once you all get out of grade school you'll be able to take economics.

I see some posts of mine have been removed. Must've hit a nerve with the admin by saying they lack in their admining. Funny how anyone can break the posting rules unless it's a flame against them directly then they take action. Admin abuse at its finest.

Anet has taken many steps when it comes to farming and despite what people have said on these forums I've read on others, farmer's complaints after a good farming spot gets nerfed. People always say "it was because of bots" or "it was to stop bots". Tell me whats the difference between a bot that farms the whole time it's on the game and a player doing the same (other than the bot can do it 24/7)? Between people being night owls and living in places around the world there are still 1000s of people on at any given time in one district or another doing nothing but farming. If they were so big on nerfing the use of bots and noone else, it wouldn't be difficult for them to release a statement saying something like "We will be monitoring accounts and how long they have been logged in. Any accounts logged in for over 24 hours will be automatically logged off" with a warning that if it happens again the account will be banned. Since they already got that hourly message they could just change the message after 20 hrs to "You have been playing for 21 hours, Log off now". Putting it their disclaimer and announcing it to the public in game makes it legal and allowes them to do it.

And no people farming all day then log off just to log back on to use the bot while they did real life stuff wouldn't be able to do it that way. Not if they had actual people or even programs watching for such activity. Yeah sure you could say "what if I want to pull a marathon or an all nighter". Take a shower!

500/5=100, not 20


So, you decide to throw gasoline on the fire to put it out?


There are debates as to what constitutes a "bot". Is it a person sitting there doing the same thing over and over, or a program written to do it? Is the person who farms repetitively just to make some extra gold the same as an organized group selling gold on e-bay? I'm not going to make any judgement calls on that. You can spend days reading threads about it.

I'm sure Anet is trying to get rid of "bots". however you define them while allowing "farmers" to have a way to make some extra gold to buy all that nice stuff. Why would they even put FoW armor in the game if they didn't have a way for people to make the millions necessary to get it?

As to your solution, I don't think it would work. You get the "log off now" message (better yet, do this before you get that message) just simply log off, wait a few minutes and log back on.


Peace

Sorry my mistake

In a group of 5 people, instead of them going solo and getting 100g per kill each (500g total) they would would be getting 100 gold per kill split between them (100g per kill/5 = 20g each). So instead of 500g total coming into the economy they bring in 100g total (per kill). That's 1/5th the amount all because they have to team up.

lol what do you mean? gas doesn't burn only gas vapors

Well what are you complaining about anyway?Oh and I dont appreciate you subtly insulting me.

I didn't subtly insult you, I blatenly insulted you. It was you who subtly insulted me.

I've got an awesome idea.

Shut up.

Quit trying to ruin the PvE side of the game because you're jealous of the players who can waste more of their life farming then you can. That's not something to get all butthurt about, its something to be happy about, you've got a life.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not trying to dog on any farmers what so ever, I think that its a game and PVE should've never been touched with stupid skills editting and other crap, its AI. Soloing FOW and UW was hella fun...now its more boring with a group.

People like having money and buying weapons for cheap, whats happened since UW solos were nerfed? Fellblade prices have gone up, from what I noticed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember when I first started working on my warrior to be able to run droknar so I could get 20k for a r.9 +15 while Enchanted Sundering PERFECT FELLBLADE OF ENCHANTING.

I sold it 3 days ago for 100k + 20 ecto. Now you tell me if that's inflation or not?

I win.

MRAHHHHHHHH FLAME FLAME FLAME


55 =SATAN
55 =GOD

WTF HAX

Jesus Christ people, keep the debate CIVIL.

No sweet heart, what your not getting is the fact that, there are extremely professional players saying same thing about this one profession. Question is, are you really cutting me deep or just trying to get your self a high rank in the military of idiots?
You are comparing, and laughing about a profession which has been nerfed to death, and has stayed on the wrong side of nerf for way too long.
Mind you, this thread was never about an ELE NERF at first place. it was about A SOLO build available to every profession out there.
If you need more significant proof, i can quote it from other professions as well.

For what i know, If there is not enough gold coming into economy, you can't even buy the thing whether the price is 50k, or 100k, or 500k. It is a simple concept of any economy, be that game or real life. In easy words, go to some Poor african country, and try to sell them a $1,000 worth of machine. Would they care ? Even if they do, can they buy? And in last, are you able to sell that piece of eqipment regardless of how expensive and important it is? Answer to all is NO.

don't matter how much you sold your ectos for, i used to buy bulwarks, and sell them for much higher prices. People had money, they paid for it. People, if not had money, would they buy it at first place? Come on, get serious.

In last, This thread, as people, including my self, asked for a build for every profession to pull with their *own* skills a method of solo farming places like those. At this moment, you are either forced to make a NECRO, or a 55 monk to do it. Why not allow every profession to do something with their own skills for such *rare and not enough* places for farming? That will not hurt 55 farming, but will allow people like me to play with my favourite characters rather than using a cheap ass SS necro, and pull same stuff with 3 skills along with a 55 monk.
Make a mesmer and ele do the same. not just necro. Now, if you are going to tell me about SV, well beats me why ele profession is the only useless one for that. And now, every thing boils down to the same very point, buff the freakin profession and stop nerfing the shit out of it.

By the way, i got an SS of my own just because i am FORCED to play a necro side to do farming in UW. And i am quite good at doing my part in farming. So do not take it as i have no clue of what i am talking about.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

I can understand you anger. That is terrible that they FORCED you to do something against your will while playing a game.

Prior to changes I made with my character I had a W/Mo, 55hp, and an SS all of which I use for farming and do it successfully. So quit with the ignorant replies saying your just jealous. If I can do it as good as the next person what is there for me to be jealous about? I even have a few spots that, from what I can tell, noone seems to know of and yields decent money.

Since I farm successfully then why the strong anti farm arguments? Because I want that superior absorbtion and that max gold weapon and not want to have to farm to afford it. It's been mentioned that if farming was nerfed then rare drops would increase in value since the rate at which they come in would decrease. That is only partially correct. For the first little bit the price will go up but in the long run the amount of gold brought in would decrease significantly forcing those with the maxed out weapons to sell it for less since noone would have the money to afford it at the 100k+ price. All in all Prices would drop.

/notsigned. this is about the 80th thread on this topic, and frankly, I almost don't feel like convincing others again. About the Ele person, noone "forced" you to make a necro. 55 Eles can be very effective too, and have the advantage of being able to use Obsidian flesh instead of an Elite for damage, because the're skills dont require an Elite to do damage. 55s drive the GW economy, and I don't want to see the effects of what would essentially be a "Stock-Market crash" of GW. Prices would skyrocket, and noone would be able to buy decent weapons.
EDIT: I did read the post before me, just clarifying.

Very mature. You admit to flaming. I can't seriously believe that someone will respect your opinion if all you do is insult people, and with very bad grammar at that.

sh4ft3d

While you take your foot out of your mouth I'll explain something to you. When I first started posting on these forums it was with some suggestions since anet referenced this sight to post suggestions as it was checked daily. The first responses (note the plural) I got from different people was nothing but flames. So I thought "If that's the game they want to play then I'm game".

If you had bothered to read the other post you would see that I simply retaliated.

As for correcting my grammer (although microsoft word's grammer check says otherwise), can you not think of something intelligent?

ok, my question, which btw, NO ONE has been able to answer...

why call for a nerf on the 55 when a trapping ranger can do trolls in droks just as well?

or a wammo?

arent these "ruining" the economy just the same?

honestly, people call for so many nerfs we're all gonna be hitting each other with 1-dmg rods soon.

Agreed with Tyrent. As for Hunter, My foot has been nowhere near my mouth today, but you do seem quite fond of saying so to people other than myself, so I shall refrain from commenting too long on your meaningless post. They flamed you? Be the better person. Take the high road. Ignore the idiots who can't have an intelligent argument.

I see no reason to nerf the 55ers. I do not think that they ruin the economy at all, in fact, I think that they help to better the economy. Ectos would be rediculously priced if 55ers were not present. Furthermore, 55ers can't really do a whole hell of a lot anymore. They can 2 man UW where ectos are few and far between anymore or they can do trolls which really don't have many good drops.

On the topic of bots....
ANet is working to get rid of them but no matter what builds are around bots will be here to stay. People will find something else they can use bots for. It is just going to be a fact of playing. They will get rid of them soon enough the old fashioned way without having to alter the game play to do so.

I play with bots for fun sometimes when I'm on my SS necro. The bots suck for the most part and they are annoying to play with from the necro's standpoint. Besides that I own them when I get 2 ectos and they have 0. Then they say something about 50/50 and I just ignore them or leave. What are they going to do report me that their bot got screwed by me?

Your absolutely right. Nerfing the build itself is not the answer something has to be done to the game as a whole.

But where's the fun in that?

Again it's not as simple as "when there is more coming in the prices will be low but if not many come in then the prices will be high". The economy in GW is not as simple as some make it out to be.

No he didnt say he used them, he said he plays with them as in he is Necro the bot is the monk.

Well to be honest if your going to Nerf this i would saying in Sorrows Furnace and Fissure Nerf the Book Trick / Gear trick because that bug is just as bad as a 55 bug.

agreed

I say we just nerf everything. You can't even leave town unless you are doing a mission or quest. No more farming, not more running ..... just play the game the way it was meant to be played.

/end sarcasm

I, having played a normal monk that takes great pleasure in stacking health regeneration, very much disagree with the idea of removing that... however, I do definately agree with the rune thing, not because I hate 55 monks or anything, it just seems to me that runes shouldn't stack for health reduction, same as they don't for their attribute points. When I first heard about 55 monks, I was very confused about the health reduction stacking, I thought it was just an exploit or something that would be fixed. Still, I don't care that much either way, it just makes more sense to me for it not to stack.

ANET is smart that they did pvp + pve in 1 game. like this they target more audience, those who like playing role playing story and thoser whi like pvp, and what eles is smart, they introduce the two together, so if i would never buy a pvp ior pve only game, i get to learn it here, because its here WITH the game i was paying for, and maby in future ill buy a pvp only game. this is a smart strategy to attract buyers and keep people palying.

Another "just nerf everything" post. Come up with something.
Despite the sarcasm that doesn't seem that bad of an idea. It still wouldn't do anything with farming. In SF it's the quests that are farmed.

Edit: I agree with you completely Maria.

I jumped to the last page after reading the first four, so pardon if this reiterates a previous poster.

Anet doesn't want to kill farming. They have stated on many occasions that they have no trouble with honorable farmers. They recognize that for some people, farming is something that they enjoy, whether it's the play of farming itself, or they just enjoy the process of getting decent drops and making a profit on their time.

And some people like to "farm" for the sheer hell of it, because it's challenging and fun. I've made a 55 for my mesmer, necro, and monk (and the monk is the least fun - i can kill a mob much faster with my SS necro 55.) I was getting bored, then I took a friends suggestion to make a 55 mesmer, and found a whole new enjoyable thing to do. I 55 in the morning before I go to work, or other times when I only have 10-15 minutes to play, or if my guildies aren't on and I don't feel like putting up with pugweenies. It's injected a whole new enjoyability into the game for me. I'm going to make a 55 build for my elementalist this week I think, I've been wanting to see how hydrae like earthquake/aftershock up close and personal.

And that is what Anet's intent was. If not, they *never* would have introduced the -health foci in the first place. They don't hate the 55 builds, if they did, one simple change would be all they would have to do, and they would do it. They'd make Protective Spirit target OTHER ally.

Could that be worked around? Sure. But it'd end the solo 55 players. Do they want to do that? I don't think so.

Frankly, I think a lot of the animosity that people have toward 55 builds *does* come from jealousy. Among the more base of human phenomena is the feeling that if you can't have something, nobody should have it. Or if you can't do it easily, nobody should be able to do it.

Honestly, I was a little nervous starting a 55 build because I could tell that it took a certain amount of skill that I wasn't sure I was up to, it was really the idea of making a 55 mesmer at a wee tiny percentage of the cost of a 55 monk that got me to try it to all. And sure enough, I was very dead, very quickly, quite a lot when I was learning how to do it. But I learned how, got pretty decent at it, and now it's one of the most fun things I do.

People often hide the uglier feelings behind platitudes like "farming hurts the economy which hurts everyone" - a statement that is actually demonstrably untrue. Maybe it would be better if, as several previous posters have suggested, people who don't like 55 builds just ignored the people who do. Live and let live. And I bet, if you really are, under all that grousing, nervous/afraid of trying the build, you could approach almost any of us 55'ers for help. I, for one, would be happy to show you how to put the build together cheaply on a mesmer or necro and show you the ropes. After all, that's how I learned and I'm paying it forward.

In the mean time, take a moment, breathe, live and let live, be in peace.

A breath of fresh air.

Thank you Robin, for a thoughtful post.

*chuckles* for a person who seems to know it all, isin't really reading me at first place. I am not asking a NERF on 55 monk. I am asking a BUILD for EVERY profession so they can all solo farm with their OWN skills. You are suggesting me using 55 monk skills on my ELE, and i am quite shocked to even see you saying it since, why the hell do i need an ELE for if i am going to use all MONK skills to RELY ON ?
IF farming will continue to go on, why not just allow all professions to do it in their own *effective* way? i do not see why 55 supporting skills only. I have tried earth line and it is not even CLOSE to be as good as 55 line, hence why i even SPEAK.

You are telling me about a market which i can define in much better way than you. I would suggest that you read MINE, and
Before i even reply you any further, i suggest you learn from this guy. He knows much more. Trust me.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Agreed.

Thank you Xploiter.

I also agree in what you had to say there in that if anet isn't going to do anything about the excessive ("excessive" what I've been talking about all along, not the casual "need a few k cause I'm short" kind of farming Robin talked about) farming then they should allow it so that every class can farm just as easily as any other. Sure the 55hp build are limited to where they can farm but so are all classes. The difference is any of the 55 builds are dirt simple to use while the mesmer, ele and ranger (one I know first hand) are trickier to use. So if anet isn't going to do anything about the farming in the line of putting an end to it then they should provide every primary class the necessary skills and items so that a build can be made to farm just as easily as the 55hp and W/Mo stance (which only seem to become more effective with the more melee enemies there are).

As for Robin. The kind of farming that you described is casual farming. 10-15 mins now and then won't do anything to anyone. I'm talking about the people who get on on the weekends or after school/work for a couple hours doing nothing but farming while only taking 10-15 mins to actually do any quests and missions. However what you said about

is simply untrue. Anet themselve have said in an interview (a section quoted by Mandy Memory more than once one these forums) that excessive farming (the kind I'm talking about, not the casual you talked about) does have a negetive affect on the economy which in turn as a negetive impact on everyone else (who doesn't farm excessively) to be forced to farm more just to keep up. Their words, not mine. It's also not just the farming either but what they do with the items they find. With all the casual farming I have done whatever I didn't GIVE away to friends and guildies and didn't use I SOLD TO THE MERCHANT AND/OR TRADERS. Yes I could get more by selling to other people but I want to see the prices at the traders drop and be more affordable. The only way to do this is if the sell surpasses the buy at the trader so the supply becomes greater than the demand from the trader's perspective. I'm even thinking of taking a break from playing to do nothing but etting farm and sell every rune (no matter what the value) to the rune trader to try and get the prices down.

I do the same thing

Ok bad idea. They nerfed the 55 with enchant strippers and what happened? The 55's started packing spell breaker and taking SS necros with them. The nerf was defeated farming continues. If you further nerf the 55 they will find another way around it. It's that simple. The only thing you do is increase their party size and even then it won't stop the farming it just makes them do more runs to make up for the drops they are havig to split. I don't know how many times I have to tell you people. Farming will NOT stop. People will always find a way to grind out their items as long as items exist in the game. If you want to stop farming then you literally have to remove item drops from the game. That's the only solution. I'm not being sarcastic I'm being serious. Everytime you change something you have to alter the game in some way shape or form. You create a vacuum somewhere for some other build to step in and take over in the solo department. You might decrease farming for a few weeks while the build is perfected and tweaked but then once it's fool proof farming is up and running at full speed. That is why when people suggest the whole "nerf this or nerf that or make farming harder" crap the rest of us just laugh because we know that you will never get what you want, which is an end to farming. People ,like us, will always find ways to do it. We will find ways to do it solo to maximize our drop assignment and you will still have to pay 50-55K for a Sup absorb or 100K for a godly weapon. May advice to you? Get used to it and stop wasting breathe and bandwidth on suggestions that cannot be implemented successfully.

Your right str0b0 the farming won't stop. As long as people can do it a little more often they will do it alot. So what is anet to do. Stop the drop? That would just be bad all around. So what they have done and will continue to do is make it more and more difficult for people to do it solo or in pairs especially in high level areas. That way instead of 8 people getting 100g per kill each they are forced to team up and that 100g each becomes 100g split between them (12 or 13 gold each). That way the only farming that can be done is the casual kind that doesn't have a detrimental affect on the player driven economy and again prices may rise initially for rare items but when the wealth of the general public drops those rares selling for 100k+ will have to be sold at half that just for people to be able to afford it. Also rare items in general will be rare again. Sorry but being able to get atleast one gold per run (no matter if it's max or not) is not rare. Rare is if you get a gold drop in half a dozen or dozen runs. So in places where a gold is always going to drop it's still a 1 in 4, 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 chance it will be for you. Before you come back with something on that last part take a look through your previous posts since I'm sure some of those who love to farm and is completely against the antifarm idea has said themselves rare items should be rare. Maybe not in this thread but in one of them.

Well I guess I will add my 2 cents into this discussion.

Point #1: Nerfing skills or items is not the solution for ending solo farming. The reason for this is that its not items or skills that make solo farming possible. This leads me to...

Point #2: Solo farming builds work because of two current game mechanics. First is that players know what monsters will spawn in certain areas and secondly they know what skills those monsters will be bringing to the party. If the programmers implement a system of random creature spawns and further make those creatures have varying effective skill sets (example: Trolls could have trapper trolls, warrior trolls, or shaman type trolls with the appropriate name and the skill sets for these troll type would not always be the same... Shaman troll could be a boon protector or maybe a domination mesmer). These two changes will utterly destroy all solo farming builds permanently. Sure the 55er might get lucky occasionally and get a spawn that he can dominate but that will be rare. In addition this will greatly increase the challenge level of PVE and as an added bonus will provide far better training for the crossover to PVP play than currently exists in PVE.

Point #3: I personally have nothing against farmers per say. Actually all PVE players farm in some way at one time or another we just don't all use solo builds. Some of us prefer the companionship of others. Still the game as designed is trying to promote skill in playing. Solo builds are gimick builds not skill based builds (thus why you do not see them ever used in GVG). In order to increase the challenge level and keep people playing the game I believe the developers will need to implement the above changes. They can make new chapters all they want but until they increase the variety and challenge level they will slowly loose all but the farmer PVE players and I don't think Guild Farms is their great vision for the game.

Sharparrow what you are suggesting sounds more and more like what they tried in Russia and China, but as you might have noticed the people in general like to make money and they will find way's of doing it what ever the mighty Rulers do to stop them. Unless everyone is created exactly the same way,(same IQ, same prefernces, same common sense,same drive) the ones that are a little more creative will make more money. Thats life, live with it.

That part of your post is really quite ignorant. The rest of your points are semi valid but there are too many catch all skills for randomized monsters and skill sets to effectively stop farming. SS is an example. I don't care if you're a monk, a warrior, whatever. You'll take damage from it because it triggers on everything. Randomized spawns won't make a difference either all it will do is make us look a little harder. Now as for Solo builds requiring no skill though that's what I really want to address. If you think that mashing buttons in a certain order or at a certain time is the skill portion of this game then you must be pleased as punch when you get up each morning and tie your shoes. The skill part of the game comes in figuring out synergetic skill combinations and utilizing them to their full advantage. It comes in creating builds and if you want to get down right technical it's the creators of these solo builds that are amongst the most skilled PvE players in the game. They have figured out ways to take on portions of the game that usually require full parties. How can you say that overcoming the game obstacles in such a fantastic way is unskilled? Don't even bring GvG or PvP into this discussion as a benchmark for skill because PvP, GvG and PvE are different animals entirely. Now I'm not saying that the people that copy the builds are necessarily skilled players ,but they are no less skilled than any other player in this game based simply on the ability to kill monsters, which I stress again is about pushing buttons in a certain order and at a certain time which even the mentally handicapped could accomplish with ease, trust me on that one I used to volunteer with a vocational rehab program where I basically taught simple manufacturing skills to the mentally handicapped and they can push buttons in a certain order and at a certain time with the best of em. I'm tired of people touting their ability to mash buttons and time things as a skill. Any moron with fingers and the ability to count can do the same thing. Actually fingers are optional.