Sit-Outs and Why Anet might not break any records with Factions...

Nice post MSecorsky, i have to agree..

This is all about the time spent playing the game. I have hit over 2000 hours on prophicies so I feel I got way more than my $50 in value.

The same will go for factions. You will get your $50 value out of the game. Its still free to play. If you want to put it down for a while then come back you may do so.

Unlike other games if you want to come back you have to pay that monthly fee.

MONEY IS ALWAYS THE BOTTOM LINE.

Actually he does have a somewhat valid point. Combos aren't new they just made the assassin combos a little easier for people to piece together. Sever Artery+Gash+Final Thrust anyone? Yeah it's a combo. All they did as add mandatory things for each step. At the same time though it is what it is. The genre itself doesn't allow for any real innovation in the way things work. You can add tweaks here and there to make the same mechanics more interesting but in the end all MMORPG type games work the same way. Find monster, Target monster kill monster with whatever weapon\spell you have on hand. I've already pre ordered it. I have some concerns. We'll see how those pan out in the weeks after the release.

Hmm.. am i getting screwed over buying GWF for $50.
Answer in my own honest opinion about it is a big resounding NO.
Reason: i play the game online for free 24/7 anytime anyday. I can quit if i want to and wait a few months and play again without having that $10-$20 per month online game fee hanging above my head like an axe.

I can have a life and play with people who obviously like playing not to mention knowing full well that the game isnt about people with the best superweapons and armor there is to buy.

GW introduces that kind of game. Monsters are more powerful than us and likely doubt anyone can take on the entire game by themselves. GW is unique and likely to stay that way.

Bottomline is i got no money to pay that damned online fee. Heck i get enough of that paying for my DSL. GW is fun and likely so is WOW or other online games out there.

Take your pick people. There are XXX million people out there... they got a choice. You do too. Me, i'll buy the game and play it and have fun.

Fun should be free... at least when playing a game anyway. I shouldn't have to worry about paying anyone more than what i paid for just to play online.

I mean even at $10... i will be paying like $120 usd every year? gah.

Tell me when $50 unlimited time play isnt any better than $120 every year to play?

id say everyone but one I talked to said they would get factions, i even gave a friend a beta key he just bought prophecies and about to get factions. I have another friend that recently got it. The one person I know that plays GW currently isnt getting GW:F is becuase he likes WOW better. He likes to fish and skin for leather, make armor. Thats his thing. He doesnt like being restricted to 8 skills ( Ido wish we had at least 10 myself, but thats another debate for another time) But bottom line is he likes the froo froo. I like some of the froo froo, like the pumpkin heads and such. But he doesnt want it, so be it.

Mainly I see people are mad because what they want won't be in the game so they are slamming Anet, which reminds me of the guy that keeps calling into the talk show claiming he will never listen again to this garbage only to call int he next day to complain again and threaten to never come back.

I am not 100% happy with everything about GW, i wished there was an in game mail system and auction house ala WOW style (that would make this game 90% better) but I am still happy with it over all and more than sastified with factions.

if they want to sit it out fine, let them, tell them to PLEASE do.

it's one less whiner sitting in town spamming "RAGE QUITTER LFG!!!"

I am almost at 2k hours now and played since beta, I can always find something to do.

I have looked at wow, eq, elder scrolls, blah

While it is about the money to a good extent, it's also about the available content and execution of the game itself.

New Content: There's almost nothing new here. Advertised as having new dynamic content and new mission types. None of this is completely true, and, as all marketing teams must do to some extent, flavor it up some.
I've said this before, but it fits here again to some degree: Challenge and Competitive Missions are PvP missions though they are listed under PvE in the Factions FAQ. This is important to know because for that $50 there is considerably less missions and additions to those of us that do not wish to play a competitive game.
Exectution of the game: In the past several weeks, I've posted much less and read more posts on all topics. One topic of note is that PvPers are needing UAX/UAS to remain competitive faster - thus removing the "grind" from the game. Arguments range from one extreme to the other, but the ones that make the most since with Factinos coming out is "How is my alliance going to fare against hardcore players that have UAX and UAS?" It seems those weapon mods and all those skills actually do make a difference. Other players in those same threads say then just go play PvE and unlock them faster. Those players "asking" (not whining) for a way to remain competitive are told to go play something they don't enjoy.

On the same concept for the PvE side of things we have the infamous Favor and City control issue. Those Elite missions and end game content that PvEers enjoy (for farming or for the actual quests - though thin they may be) are literally locked off unless PvP wins or losses. Factions added Fed-Ex style quests to farm points, but how many times is that going to be "fun"? The players asking (not whining) for PvE content to be unlinked from PvP wins/losses are told to go play PvP, something they don't enjoy doing.
There are other examples as well and the list can go on and on.

Just these two examples show that not everyone will feel they got their money worth with Factions. Add in the infamous "slot" issues and the "cosmetic" changing and there are that many more. As a side note, do either of these last two have any direct impact on those who don't care? No. But, for those that it does matter, it takes away from their game.

So yea, money and game design are what keep me from it. If I can find it for $10 somewhere, then again, yea I might pick it up as I feel it's worth about that much to me. Chapter 1 was worth about $100 or more though.

Thanks for the compliment Mordakai, you changed your avatar and completely threw me off - I'm bringing steaks for broiling as I'm soon to be flammed again (though why I always seem to get flammed is still beyond me sometimes)... want one?

Edit: Last thought: One thing to also keep in mind (everyone - competitive and non), is a major "good point" in GW, is that you don't have to have each chapter to stay "competitive" or have all the good stuff. My skipping Factions isn't going to hurt me come Chapter 3 (if I get that one).
So the gotta have each Chapter way of thinking isn't here, which I think is nice.

And then you'll want the skills from chp1 on your chp2 character... so that'll be fun, lets go redo those prophecy missions for the upteenth time!

And no, I don't know that's how it will work, but it sounds like they're going to pull back giving us skills for chp2 quest rewards let alone let those of us linking up earn quests from skills through chp2 rewards...

Quite frankly that makes me think getting skills for characters not introduced that chapter from previous chapters, as the number of chapters grow, will get very very very old for those who liked variety in their PvE.

So we have a new continent/ new game, with new characters, missions, quests, skills, monsters, NPCs, PvP, PvE, etc., and you say no new content?

How exactly do you define "new content"? If you want a whole new paradigm, then you want a game other than Guild Wars. GW is based on a particular model that drives it. New content wraps around that model.

Seriously, what in the underworld are you talking about?

It could be a lot of people though, couldn't it - I know I've been through a couple guilds closing doors, most of my IRL friends aren't continuing, and honestly I couldn't encourage a new player to get into it right now.

But if ANet can rely enough on you silly types that might continue to buy extra for spite it might not matter in the least

I just spent $20 buying PS2's God of War, I got about 6-7 hours out of it. Hopefully I will pick it up again. So, it cost me about $2.70 per hour of enjoyment, with little replayability.

I play WoW occasionally. When I buy a month it costs me $15, and I usually play about 4-6 hours a week when I have it on. So, ignoring the initial $50 price tag, it costs me about $0.75 per hour of enjoyment.

I bought GW:P CE for $70. I have played about 800 hours. It costs me less than $0.10 per hour of enjoyment. With tons of replayability, heck just logging on for holiday events is enough now.

So, for price nothing comes close, in my mind.

Another thing is quite a few old schoolers will be hanging back due to their own personal wars, I bet many will fold once they hear within their guild how cool the new stuff is, or how they are always in 12v12 or what not.

The greatest boon to GW's model is the players WITHIN the game talking up the other chapters.

Meh. People leaving games is nothing new, happens all the time, in fact.

Actually, Guild Wars has a huge advantage over other MMORPGs - they do not need to keep the same people playing (and paying!) monthly like other MMORPGs.

They just need "x" amount of copies of each Chapter sold to meet their bottom line. All this speculation that Guild Wars is dying is just that.. idle speculation.

I will be very suprised if Anet doesn't meet it's numbers... and I, for one, will be happy if they exceed projected sales. They've delivered a superior game, and one I will continue to support. I'm very excited about Factions and the future of Guild Wars... and I'm not even a "leet" player!

WasAGuest - I changed my avatar for two reasons. One, someone else was using Conjure Phantasm, and Two, I wanted a Faction specific avatar. I like it better, and I hope others do, too.

I'm sitting it out at first. I want to see what others have to say about the elite content. If it's just (The Favor Problem)^2 I'll probably not buy unless the price dips to around $30.

I don't mind paying for new content, but I want to see how much of that new content I can actually get to without sniffing my own crotch for fun first....

I was refering to the value of the "new" stuff, as in money combined with content.

Lets look at the monsters: Do they act any different from the Charr? No. They have different skills, but are still the exact same we have seen before, new models and skins don't make them different. I was looking for a change in AI behavior, assign an AI (different) to each type of mob. I bet if I use an AoE they will all flee even if I do no damage to them. I bet if I hit one with Empathy it keeps attacking... or Backfire for that matter, it will still cast. Some foes should be made smart enough to know not to "hurt" themselves, while others (more primative creatures) wouldn't have a clue as to why they are suddenly being hurt and no one is around hitting them with a pointed object. Add variety to the foes in AI, not just in looks. Would this still fit into paradigm? Yup.

Skills. Same with variations really. As was already said above about the combo set up. They are really just the same thing, only now with a pre-req on when it can be used. This is no fault of Anet here, they did such an awesome job on the first go round, it will be hard to come up with newer unique skills while maintaning the balance needed.

Areas: Areas with what to do? Fed-ex quests for farming points. Run here and there quests? I agree it looks pretty, really pretty, but with nothing to do there, why go? The areas I was looking for were those elite missions so I coul bring over my current level 20s and give them new challenges. Now we find that I either farm points all day, join in PvP (which I really do not enjoy) or stand around and wait till the elite area is open (again, not fun). So for me, since you asked me, it's not worth it. To you, it might be, but not to me. If anyone cares, I had listed several possible ideas (months ago now) on how to make areas and faction points more fun for PvE. It's a long lost thread now, but I can repeat it here... and yea, it still fits within the paradigm of the game.

That pretty much leaves me with really cool looking armor, some new weapons to look at (but are all really similar thanks to balancing needs) and PvP.

New PvP: I don't care in the least about this aspect of the game. Tried it, didn't like it for multiple reasons. Just, wasn't something I enjoyed, even though I was on a winning team. /shrug - this is a major determining factor of why I opt out of this one. It's just not for me, I don't enjoy it. One only has to look at the mentality of the player base to see why I wont bother. - Current Favor system is similar to the Elite Missions access. If log in and don't have access, I log off and play something else. When I ask (not whine) for a change, I get told to go "earn it" or "go play something else".
Well, if I waste my evening "earning it" then I have no time to go enjoy what I was after. So that's not a real option. Same with the Elite missions - casual gamer need not apply it seems.
The other option is to go "play something else" and now that I say that is what I am doing, the torches get lit and the raging hordes still come after me. lol

Edited: I also mainly don't enjoy the "rushed" feel of PvP or competition. I bring this up, cause some putz just walked in here and told me to hurry up with the report (I was done an hour ago) so he could turn it in on his way out to lunch... rush, rush, rush... /sigh

New weapons and armor: Well, not worth $50 for just that. I won't pay Bethesda $2 for horse armor, I'm sure not paying Anet $50 for "looks".

At least my steaks are getting well done.

And before some wise guy/gal says "This game is not for you then" - I happen to agree, the current direction it's going, it's not. Which is why I am skipping Factions but will wait for Chapter 3 and see what it brings.
I have a feeling, that after reading so many critical posts on so many different sites, that Anet may go into a different direction with Chapter 3... that and Jeff Strain says "each Chapter will have a distinct dynamic to it" - he even states that if you don't like one of the chapters, just wait six months and another will be available to you. Briliant business choice on a game that takes such "push the edge" design choices.

@ Mordakai - Aye, Female Ritualist.. can't go wrong there. /big grin - Just got used to seeing Phantasm and knew it was you. Read your post and had to double glance at your name.

I also agree, GW is not dying. Will they meet or exceed sales? Dunno. I would say they might. Since you don't need Chapter 1 to play Factions, it's even possible they sell more Factions then they did Chapter 1.

Here's another game marketing method:

HL2 Silver: HL2, CounterStrike/CounterStrike Source, Day of Defeat/Day of Defeat Source, HL1/HL1 Source and a bunch of other games for $60. Yeah some of the games are old and crap, but I got loads of enjoyment out of HL2/Counterstrike Source and DoD source.

Now Valve is releasing the next chapter of the HL story and guess what? It's $20 and you get HL2 with it. **This is according to the latest PC Gamer.

Contrast this with GuildWar's marketing strategy... 2 new slots (if you merge) and full price either way.

I guess the MMO market is different from the FPS market.

Sorry for the double post.

Actually, after the FPE, I was the only one in my guild still thinking about getting Factions... I finally descided not to about a week or so ago. There's just too many reasons not to get it when your a casual gamer or within a relaxed play schedule.

If we could log in and know right away we could hit up FoW or UW or at least plan Monday to complete the quests there on Wednesday, we would probably be wonderfully happy. With Factions, the system is even less accessable unless you take part in the very time consuming point farming (gaining) for PvE or enjoy the PvP. So we could log in, farm like crazy and then in two days all that time was worth nothing. The system just isn't built with casual players in mind.
Casual and end game don't usually go hand in hand, I admit, but when you're done with everything else, the end game is what you tend to look at. And in seeing it blocked out, you see little there to do.
Also, 5 outta the 20 plus guildies instantly logged out of the FPE when they entered Jade Quarry and found the "Competitive Missions" to be PvP. They never returned for the rest of the FPE.
12vs12 has completely turned off several others in my guild as well - I was one of the few willing to give it a shot - and I still didn't like it at all.

There's just quite a few of us that do not like that style of play and therefore will not (did not) enjoy the Factions content. Not saying the game will fail, just responding to the topic at hand. Will it meet or exceed sales? Sitting out? To each his/her own.

One last note, and I'll leave it alone (yea I can hear the cheers... ) is "fun". We play the game for "fun". Competition is fun for some, other enjoy the co-op, social, farming (ugh, can't stand having to do that) or whatever they enjoy. In the end, it's what they find fun that matters. In Chapter 1 everyone could find something they enjoyed and were rarely limited in that.
With Factions merging so many facets, many people are seeing what they found "fun" being pushed aside for other dynamics. When they voice their concern, whether in question form or simple conversation, they are rebuffed and called "whiners", "tantrum throwers" and more. Most often this happens by those whose idea of "fun" wasn't altered or pushed aside. The final say is always (and I mean always) the same:

"Adapt and play" (what they don't enjoy).
"Go play something else."
"This game is not for you."

This is fine for the player base to say, but if Anet adopted this "sayings" they would loss many customers.
I don't think anyone here wants to see Anet fail, so let's keep that in mind when refering to another's post and opinions. If we are all able to work on "bending" ideas towards a better ame for us all, we could all enjoy the game that much more.

Prophecies: I got my money's worth, certainly.

Factions: I already played out PvE in Prophecies and don't have enough prophecies skills to PvP the way I want to (Meaning it would only get worse if I got Factions). Since the PvE will just be more of the same (ArenaNet has demonstrated no real talent for storyline, so I don't have that to look forward to. From the preview weekend I can say that all the enemy AIs are the same as they've always been...I'd get bored within a couple hours.) and the PvP will only become more inaccessable, I will not get my money's worth out of factions even though I did out of prophecies.

Well, yeah. A shooter does not require the continued expense that a MMORPG does, once you set up the game and servers, the game takes care of itself.

By their very nature, MMORPGs require constant updates (remember, we've been getting FREE updates for GW for a year now!). That's why most MMORPGs charge a monthly fee, while most shooters do not.

Actually, new monsters using new skills. The AI has a base functionality, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not new content. New monsters, new challenges, yet the familiarity of Guild Wars.

Again... wrong. Many new skills, unique from Factions. Because you can use combinations in Prophecies doesn't mean Faction skills aren't new. Brand new builds will be coming from Factions. Look at Broad Head Arrow... there's a build based on that waiting to happen alone!

The elite areas are only a small portion of the game, and from what I've heard fully 80% of the new game is focused on level 20 players. There are hundreds of new quests and missions, new skills to cap, areas to explore... you really can't see the petrified forest for the trees.
And this is purely because of your own doing. You are being far too narrow-minded. All you need to do is take your favorite class, create a new character in Cantha and actually play the game. If you can't find anything new... well, you have earned my pity.

However, you have failed to convince or prove a point with such a seive-like argument.

PvP will be highly accessible, especially the 12 v 12! Even if they make it party of four requirements, it'll be easy to find three others that don't give a fried rats buttocks about flavor of the month builds and just want to play.

Fear not the accessibility of PvP!

I'm getting factions. I want to qualify my next statements with that. Both my wife and I pre-ordered the CE.

But, during the FPE, I was forced to play PvP as a means of progression. I do not PvP. I have been almost begged to before, but I do not. I do not find any fun in it. There are too many whiny babies in PvP (there are lots in PvE, but they do different things) and I can't take henches to ignore them-I must take them along (and babysit.) I am a father already, I don't want more kids. In addition, I do NOT play FoTM builds AT ALL (my mesmer is so unconventional the only place I play her is with guild) so I'm SOL for most missions on the spot. Why do I want to force myself to do something I intensely dislike in order to progress?

Anet, I love your games, and even if you blow it on 2 AND 3 I'll keep buying, because of the friends I have made ingame, but seriously, I'm not out to PvP at all. Quit tying them to my ankle.

lol - I wans't trying to convience you or anyone of a point of view. I was also not argueing. I was answering the question(s) above. hehe Whether you or anyone agrees with my point of view or answer was never the topic at hand.

I also have to ask at this point, why defend Anet? Are you trying to save a sale for them or something? They will do just fine without my $50, I'm sure of it.
I never said they did anything incorrectly. I said "I" didn't like the direction Factions was taking and that "I" didn't feel I would get enough value out of the game. If I recall, I even said they had made a "Brilliant Business choice" in their business model. So I (yea "I" again) even claim that they made a good game and that people feeling they will get a good deal with it, well, they should love it.

The only one I will comment on is this though:

"The elite areas are only a small portion of the game, and from what I've heard fully 80% of the new game is focused on level 20 players. There are hundreds of new quests and missions, new skills to cap, areas to explore..."

80% of what? The PvE content? Or 80% of the entire game? As for the Factions FAQ, we see the majority of PvE content is based off of three missions types. Co-op, Challenge and Competitive. Competitive and Challenge missions are PvP based missions, and again, "I" don't enjoy PvP play. So, for me (me) there's isn't enough content to warrant the $50 charge. There are other quests sprinkled about and some missions that are co-op (I never said there wasn't), but there are far fewer that there was in Chapter 1 thanks to the lean towards competitive play. So, the problem is, I can see the forest through the petrified trees, and is why I will skip this chapter.

If it were less than $50 than I might have waited and picked it up as there is less I will enjoy with Factions, therefore it is less of a value to me.

Attempting to convince me other wise is moot at this point. With the cash I had on hand to buy Factions, I bought Oblivion instead. So, if someone were to convince me other wise, it's too late now anyway. - of course, now I get to get goofed over by Bethesda and the $2 mods they are trying to peddle as "quality content". wootage! Ahh, if life weren't funny, I'd be mad as a hatter these days.

LOL! Don't tell me you bought a virtual horse...

Honestly, I don't get the hype about Oblivion. I really don't. But, that's a topic for another thread..

lmao - horse armor... who'd of thought people would actually pay for that stuff eh? - sorry, yea way OT.

Why do people keep saying "for PvP only"?

It should be quite obvious by now that, the more people you have in your alliance, the higher chance of you holding city for elite missions.

Nothing to do with elite skills or anything. If EvIL don't get couple hundreds of members like XoO, they can't even come close to compete with XoO in holding a city.

There are also faction quests that is repeatable, and give you as much faction as the PvP in about the same amount of time. Only that it is boring and tedious (to me), but garuntee 500 factions everytime.

It is all about numbers, unfortunately. Let's see who got the most skill in advertising their guild to get members.

I know for me, when I refer to those missions, I'm refering to the play type. I'm not refering to the players and their play style.
For example, as I mentioned above, the PvE content is rather slim. There are repeatable quests that give point rewards, and those were shown as fed-ex style quests. I'm with you there, boring.
The other options for PvE is the Co-op missions and the quests sprinkled (or littered) around and then the Elite end game missions. These are co-op non-competitive missions and quests.
The rest of the game play is PvP based, or competitive based. This is not a knock (for you Anet defenders out there); it is as Anet has advertised, a Competitve Online game.
Now, in reference to your post, the game design is well done in thought, but poorly executed and hence there are complaints (not whining) about it.

PvP gains points by competing, those that likely do that find it fun to do so. Each match is slightly different as people will alter or do something slightly different. Unless they are insane and do the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
PvE gain points by completing quests, those that do that will likely find it fun. Once those quests are done, do it again. It's the exact same as before though... now repeat it ten times... still fun?

By pushing the players into the numbers game, larger numbers will hold the cities, the casual players are being pushed out of the game in a matter of speaking.
How? Let's look at the build up. A guild can have a max number of players. An Alliance can have 10 guilds merged. Those "serious" guilds, those likely to hold the cities the most, are going to be looking at hard core PvP and PvE players only. Therefore, only those that can put in the time need apply.

Now we can look at the inner alliance "jobs". I get the word "job" from another thread, where someone said to another player "If you don't want to work for it, then you shouldn't have access to it"... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pay someone to go work there... they pay me to work... anyway, the "jobs" will be vaguely placed here: PvP enter 12 vs 12, battle lines moving. PvE faction point farming.

We've seen the PvP players rejoice in the 12v12 battles, so they will have a blast doing it.
We've seen the PvEers groan at the thought of more farming... Hence, we have a problem with product execution.

To further state the problems with content and execution, we can look closer at it. If the top alliance has control of the biggest city in their faction, they don't have access to smaller cities missions. So they too will be locked out of missions and content. So, it doesn't really come down to whether your alliance is "uber" or not, it's a matter of never being able to plan or set up a scheduled mission run - which most casual players tend to do. - remember, those in charge of a city gain exclusive access to the mission there, others cant get in.

Edit: usual reasons, spelling, grammar, thoughts mixing together, you know... the good stuff.

Hopefully, WasAGuest, this will not be the whole game.

While the competitive Alliance wars will be a big part of the game for some people, but I don't think it will have to be played in order to enjoy the game (much like I've been in UW once, and never been to SF or FoW, and still have had a great time playing).

Looking at the latest Gaile chat log, it seems Anet expects these Alliance battles to remain competitive, and if one Alliance holds a town forever, changes will be probably be made, because that will not serve the game at all. But there are plenty of threads discussing this issue already...

As far as I know, City of Villains is selling as well as City of Heroes did, and that is nearly the same kind of situation as this, except people haven't had their funds drained for the last year with Guild Wars, so $50 really doesn't seem like so much money... plenty of people bought CoH and CoV in addition to paying the monthly fee.

Actually, I have a fun guild...we invent stuff todo now that we have gotten almost every spot cleared. Really, most of the fun is being together with people you like to play with and just enjoying he show. If you can't do that then you probably wont have much luck with any game no matter what it cost to play...

Yes, that should be the key goal of an online game. Having fun not just with yourself (that sound wrong somehow @_@).

If you can have fun just by yourself, why is it even online?

Personally though, someone need to make a casual player guild alliance. Gathering all the casual gamers in thousands. Then it would be an unstoppable storm =P

Instead of having casual players scattered all over, everyone come in one neutral name. Sounds good? Pretty good to me.

Don't judge the game because you only get 2 extra character slots. That's just pathetic. You guys don't even know what Factions is going to be like. Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight.

Don't buy it, I don't care and I'm sure a lot of other people won't either. Less people who buy the game = less noobs I have to deal with.

I like this post. Here's why:

"Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight."

I read this as saying "Anet's FPE was a failure, they should have allowed us to see more."
It also says to me that Gaile and Jeff are useless in their posts and interviews. Since we seem to have to play to know what the game will be like, why do they bother staying in touch with the player base?

"Less people who buy the game = less noobs to deal with."

I see this as the biggest problem Anet has to deal with yet. When trying to merge play styles, some of the biggest complaints we've seen in the forums deal directly with this. Attitude. Elitest attitudes.
I see those role players that are trying to get into the PvP gaming getting shouted at, cursed at, being called the ever humorous "noob" and more. Know why I see that? Cause that's what I got in the FPE.
I also see some players could care less whether Anet succeeds or not when I read this... as long as their "fun" isn't touched.

Anyway, not picking on you directly Jas. I've seen posts like this all over these forums, yours just happened to be here where I was getting ready to respond too:

I think some of this will be fixed if we can ever get that role playing district up and going. I have a feeling most co-op players will move to that and it will be easier to find "like-minded" players.
The petition for that is still growing last I looked.

I would like to point out just how long HL2: Episode 1 is supposed to take the avg gamer, 4-6 hours. Go through Ch2 in 4-6 hours the first time, I dare ya. Also, pcgamer is WRONG about it coming with HL2

Features

* An all-new episode for one of the best-selling action games of all time.
* Discover what’s become of City 17, Dr. Breen, and the G-Man.
* Incredibly advanced Artificial Intelligence (AI).
* Highly detailed environments, featuring High Dynamic Range lighting, provide amazing gameplay settings.
* Digital Actors: The most sophisticated in-game characters ever witnessed.
* Physical Gameplay: Objects obey the laws of gravity, friction, and buoyancy.
* Design Team Commentary Mode.
* Also includes two multiplayer games: Half-Life 2 Deathmatch and Half-Life 1 Deathmatch: SourceTM.
* Half-Life 2 not required to play.

this is from the official site, http://ep1.half-life2.com

Sorry, I talked to more than just 9 people, most whom I don't even know. And as for spiting me, you are only going to waste money torwards something that won't affect me the slightest.

I am just gathering input from sources other than people logged into the game at the current time.

Now as for the rest that I've read, (And I DID read all of the responses). IT seems that info on Factions has really confused me so far. That is rare for for any type of game release.

I can usually gauge reactions just to see how well people will react to the game itself. But the responses seem to be very 50/50ish. Some say that they will though xReason is not good. Others say I am going in head first. The rest is: I'm sitting it out or Its not my cup of tea anymore if this is how its done.

Oh, and I am going to ask this again once Factions is up and going just to see if the reactions were warranted.

A lot of people are also saying: They don't have to but others will. But its a failure to realize if there are more people than you are commenting about will also choose to vote with their wallets. And that will affect future versions of the game alot if you just so happen to like the way Factions is now. They could have avoided a lot of the negativity in the installed base if the game wasn't full price.

Oh and "Less people who buy the game = less noobs to deal with." Is not true by a long shot. What if all noobs buy the game? Less people playing/buying means less/or no reason for Anet to continue. The franchise would be considered a flop and Anet moves on to something else. If you really do care about the game and Anet then you should care whether or not the game will appeal to most gamers or not.

yeah you tell 'em Jas....lol... but i agree i am so tired of people complaining about only having a few extra char slots. so friggin what. buy a 2nd account or something it is only 50 extra dollars. which i may add is still cheaper then the price of any other mmo + its normal monthly rate. i honestly havent ever feeled up all 4 char slots on this account. only 2 or 3 of the classes appeal to me in the first place. now the assassin and the ritualist both appeal to me very much so those 2 slots will be taken up very quickly which still leaves me with 2 more slots so i dont really have a problem. alright well there is my 2 cents.

Well, since ANET insists to keep CE items a mystery, a lot of people will wait just to see if they want the CE or not.

What's the mystery? They've been pretty open regarding what the CE will contain.

http://www.guildwars.com/aboutgw/whe...rthamerica.php

My normal way in on a WasGuest smash fest:

a) You made your point. We realize that some pure pvper weren't satisfied by the preview.

b) I found that Factions is a much richer PvEing experience. The world is more open in that large quests don't eat up huge chunks of the map. Questing was denser and most maps had at least one repeatable quest. Lore was denser and had didn't sound stupid once you had completed part of the story. Wasn't Elder Scrolls, but it had more of that feeling.

c)I am not an optimizing pve'er, but I'm not an idiot. Some of the PvE areas were really difficult. Main roads weren't bad, but if you got hit by a pair of oni's while aggroing then a patrol hits henchies didn't cut it. Hunting in the forest sometimes felt a bit like underworld. There were also a few quests that weren't easily acheivable with henchies or bad pugs. Sure I did 90% of stuff with henchies, but one of the quests (forget which one) required getting my little brother on vent to carefully plan and execute. That never happened outside of highend areas in prophecies.

d)PvP needs some help. GvG is great, but HA is extremely fickle at that moment. HA is very build intensive and tactically simple due to the nature of the maps involved. HA has a reward system that serves a large range of player. GvG is tactically and strategically interesting, but high end play is limited and time intensive. 12v12 was loved almost univerally by your PvP enthusists because it was almost purely tactical and tended to highlight excellent play. Although you have 12 guys on your team, one super-star had much more room to shine. Synergy builds, solo builds offensive juggernauts and holding players could all find a niche. While some of this is the result of everyone giving 12v12 a first try, the mechanics play a large roll. If you don't like PvP, just believe me this is what PvP was missing.

e)The old CCG crowd kind of gets the whole new skill thing. Some of us like having 300 new skills in order to find that combination which rocks people. Anet is doing a nice job of taking a class concept and shading it slightly. Rangers will still play like rangers, but if you are playing competitively you'll realize that the bag of tricks is a bit larger.

f)Assassins and Ritualists have a unique playing style. Assassins "rhythm" is very different from a warriors due to energy/recharge vs adren, but they will largely fill similar roles. Ritualists add an entirely new dimension to the game; optimized spirit builds and ritualist supporters will be a force.

g)While things don't look great with elite content, the final word has not yet been spoken. No one realizes how much of prophecies was still being adjusted down the stretch. I can see waiting for feed back if you are an pve only type.

h)Those who want to play Guild Wars like a PvE MMO will never be happy. If you want to grind grind grind on your own schedule, there will always be something but never nearly enough. (play Silk Road)

Guildwars was a good base system for a certain type of game which was not fully exploited the first time around. Factions is filling in some of the gaps on the guild/pvp side while also doing more with lore and art. PvE issues are addressed to the extent that more of the game will still be challenging (and therefore replayable) for a lvl 20. While Prophecies had a nice "hook" in Ascolon, much of that experience didn't carry through. Faction seems to place that richness in the parts of the game were you will be spending the most time. I'm excited about release, but realize that expectations aren't always met.

Well Said Deamon

Side Note: Oblivion... $1.89 for your own wizards tower you can call home may be worth it ... but I would need a computer that could run the game correctly

I too have concerns about the hyrbird PvP/PvE stuff, PvP is currently not my cup of tee but one thing is how much Anet will change the game based on feed back. If faction turns out to be to much PvP heavy, I can see a swing for C3 to be more PvE heavy while keeping the same mode of play that C1 and C2 have.

Anet does not expect to keep the 1 mil + C1 base to all go to C2. If there goal is to sell 1 mill copies per chapter, having 500 k from C1 and 500 k C2 reaches there goal.

One of the things that people may not think about is say it turns out you can blaze through the PvE content quicker and your not in to PvP. Instead of waiting 1 year for new stuff, you have 6 months to complete it before moving your character to new shores. I don't know how fast I will take me to get through the new content. I've seen too where it's a smaller map but far more "dense" with stuff to do.

Again I do have some concerns with C2 elements but not enough to not get the CE version of it. If factions turns so so, I know without a doubt C3 will be different from C1 and C2 no matter how good or bad it was.