Sit-Outs and Why Anet might not break any records with Factions...

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasAGuest
I know for me, when I refer to those missions, I'm refering to the play type. I'm not refering to the players and their play style.
For example, as I mentioned above, the PvE content is rather slim. There are repeatable quests that give point rewards, and those were shown as fed-ex style quests. I'm with you there, boring.
The other options for PvE is the Co-op missions and the quests sprinkled (or littered) around and then the Elite end game missions. These are co-op non-competitive missions and quests.
The rest of the game play is PvP based, or competitive based. This is not a knock (for you Anet defenders out there); it is as Anet has advertised, a Competitve Online game.
Now, in reference to your post, the game design is well done in thought, but poorly executed and hence there are complaints (not whining) about it.

PvP gains points by competing, those that likely do that find it fun to do so. Each match is slightly different as people will alter or do something slightly different. Unless they are insane and do the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
PvE gain points by completing quests, those that do that will likely find it fun. Once those quests are done, do it again. It's the exact same as before though... now repeat it ten times... still fun?

By pushing the players into the numbers game, larger numbers will hold the cities, the casual players are being pushed out of the game in a matter of speaking.
How? Let's look at the build up. A guild can have a max number of players. An Alliance can have 10 guilds merged. Those "serious" guilds, those likely to hold the cities the most, are going to be looking at hard core PvP and PvE players only. Therefore, only those that can put in the time need apply.

Now we can look at the inner alliance "jobs". I get the word "job" from another thread, where someone said to another player "If you don't want to work for it, then you shouldn't have access to it"... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pay someone to go work there... they pay me to work... anyway, the "jobs" will be vaguely placed here: PvP enter 12 vs 12, battle lines moving. PvE faction point farming.

We've seen the PvP players rejoice in the 12v12 battles, so they will have a blast doing it.
We've seen the PvEers groan at the thought of more farming... Hence, we have a problem with product execution.

To further state the problems with content and execution, we can look closer at it. If the top alliance has control of the biggest city in their faction, they don't have access to smaller cities missions. So they too will be locked out of missions and content. So, it doesn't really come down to whether your alliance is "uber" or not, it's a matter of never being able to plan or set up a scheduled mission run - which most casual players tend to do. - remember, those in charge of a city gain exclusive access to the mission there, others cant get in.

Edit: usual reasons, spelling, grammar, thoughts mixing together, you know... the good stuff.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasAGuest
I had pre-ordered it, canceled it though... $5 is less than $50.

It's really nothing all that new. Some new art work, a few alterations to some skills.

More PvP centric and I hate PvP gaming, it's just not for me. Yea, we've been told you don't have to PvP, but we've also been shown what content is there in place of PvP... Farming for points via Fed-Ex like quests... yea, that sounds like loads of content and fun to me... heh.
End game content is all blocked off to all but the most powerful alliances, this encourages further farming for either the points to gain the area to "win" the area, or farm for more cash to purchase entrance via leeching or for item purchaes. No balance what-so-ever. -Key word even there is "win". Winning and losing is competitive play the way it's set here, and there again, we see more PvP in whatever the form... Like I said... not for me. I'll not miss anything I wont enjoy, hopefully in Chapter 3 we will see the return of what I call fun. If not, well, it was fun while it lasted.

One last thing, if I saw Factions listed for $10, I'd buy it then. Some of the new armor looks pretty sweet, but that alone is not worth $50.

Edit: Lady Kesha brought up something too (a good something) about the FPE. We had a Factions PvP event and we were told we would have a PvE FPE. Those of us that were looking forward to the new content and seeing what we could do, found Jade Quarry, 12v12 and lots of Fed-ex style quests. Only 2 actual Missions which required massive point farming or PvP play.
What I went in hoping to see was new AI and each mobs acting like a different mob. I saw new models and skins on "dwarves" and "Grawl". Each foe still acted just as they do in Chapter 1... new skills here and there, but still the same game play. Nothing new.
The new Dynamic game play that was boasted about is nothing but random arenas or UT style PvP called "Challenge Missions" and "Competitive Missions".

Needless to say, I was very disapointed in Factions. And after putting in 1000+ hours in chapter 1, I would say I was a huge fan (addict really) of GW. Now, I have a hard time even loading it up.
QFT, The above two post sums up my concerns of Factions for causal players getting the short end of the stick. Hopefully it wont come to this and more of the same thing in C3.

Edit addict

Intera

Intera

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Remnants of Ascalon

Me/R

I read all the posts in this topic with great interest. I've always wondered why I've been such a devoted fan of ANet's. I was there right from the start, the E34E event a couple of years ago and loved it from the get go. I bought Prophecies the first day it came out and have clocked up about 150 hours as I'm not a huge game player...for me this is a large amount of time with a game.

I play solely PvE mostly. There is a lack of depth compared to other titles in the PvE department of GW yet some part of it endears it to me and I enjoy the missions greatly, even though the items you get arent that great, and the armour is fairly limited.

Thus I found WasAGuest's posts very interesting, he made some good points in relation to the FPE, even though I'm buying GWF I can respect and understand his reasons for not. The Factions systems being implemented such as town control through PvP concerns me too. I just hope that ANet will be able to keep a game balance for both clans, those from PvP and those from PvE.

In the end I'm going to be playing GWF's PvE content (what amount there is of it we're still unsure) and I'm sure i'll enjoy it. Yet if this game slips into a purely PvP based game with a tacked on PvE content i'll be mightily disappointed. To expect a gamer to PvP to get to PvE content when you don't like PvP in the first place is a strange choice on ANet's behalf. Yet I have a large amount of respect and belief in their abilities as a developer, and I really hope they succeed.

salaboB

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intera
To expect a gamer to PvP to get to PvE content when you don't like PvP in the first place is a strange choice on ANet's behalf.
Remember that at release the only way to get unlocks for PvP characters was through PvE. It wouldn't be entirely unprecedented for ArenaNet to make a choice like this.

Hopefully they won't, but I'm sure if they do people will tell them how unhappy it makes them until things change (They way faction was added to allow a method of PvP unlocking, for example)

Intera

Intera

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Remnants of Ascalon

Me/R

That's a fair point salaboB. Touche!

Renegade ++RIP++

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
My normal way in on a WasGuest smash fest:

a) You made your point. We realize that some pure pvper weren't satisfied by the preview.
You prolly meant pve-er... if not you didn't read correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
b) I found that Factions is a much richer PvEing experience. The world is more open in that large quests don't eat up huge chunks of the map. Questing was denser and most maps had at least one repeatable quest. Lore was denser and had didn't sound stupid once you had completed part of the story. Wasn't Elder Scrolls, but it had more of that feeling.
seemed more like all i was doing was repeatedly clearing out the same map to gain faction points. Points that were only good for armor or giving to my alliance... and i can tell you its fun the first time, 2nd time as well and it will be fun to do x time as long as i can do each of them with a different char but after that it gets old fast...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
c)I am not an optimizing pve'er, but I'm not an idiot. Some of the PvE areas were really difficult. Main roads weren't bad, but if you got hit by a pair of oni's while aggroing then a patrol hits henchies didn't cut it. Hunting in the forest sometimes felt a bit like underworld. There were also a few quests that weren't easily acheivable with henchies or bad pugs. Sure I did 90% of stuff with henchies, but one of the quests (forget which one) required getting my little brother on vent to carefully plan and execute. That never happened outside of highend areas in prophecies.
I did all quests with henchies even the co-op one's in which i stumbled upon a bug... namely being stuck on some hill after using one of those assasinwarps but still did them from the first time. There was one that was a tad more difficult(was on the kurzick side where you had to help one of those kurzick barons agaisnt a bunch of wardens) but meh changing some skills or heck just dieing and repeating with some tactics made it just as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
d)PvP needs some help. GvG is great, but HA is extremely fickle at that moment. HA is very build intensive and tactically simple due to the nature of the maps involved. HA has a reward system that serves a large range of player. GvG is tactically and strategically interesting, but high end play is limited and time intensive. 12v12 was loved almost univerally by your PvP enthusists because it was almost purely tactical and tended to highlight excellent play. Although you have 12 guys on your team, one super-star had much more room to shine. Synergy builds, solo builds offensive juggernauts and holding players could all find a niche. While some of this is the result of everyone giving 12v12 a first try, the mechanics play a large roll. If you don't like PvP, just believe me this is what PvP was missing.
Well whooptie do that really deserved a spot in a pve preview. It should have been in the pvp preview...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
f)Assassins and Ritualists have a unique playing style. Assassins "rhythm" is very different from a warriors due to energy/recharge vs adren, but they will largely fill similar roles. Ritualists add an entirely new dimension to the game; optimized spirit builds and ritualist supporters will be a force.
flourish ftw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
g)While things don't look great with elite content, the final word has not yet been spoken. No one realizes how much of prophecies was still being adjusted down the stretch. I can see waiting for feed back if you are an pve only type.
Still is it to much to ask for a little post concerning we are aware of the problem and are looking into it. Especially seeing that it got turned up at the same time as the favor stuff in which the reply we got was: shut up and go earn it... which really made me a tad more pessimistic about this final word not being spoken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
h)Those who want to play Guild Wars like a PvE MMO will never be happy. If you want to grind grind grind on your own schedule, there will always be something but never nearly enough. (play Silk Road)
I'm tired of seeing this same link with grind and pve. For the frigging last time grind is only grind if you are forced to do an action you don't enjoy. For this making us do pvp if we don't enjoy it is grind. Making people do pve if they don't enjoy it is grind. But that doesn't mean you have to consider pve players to be grinders as anet stereotypes us... or heck make the game into it with all the continued focus on repeating ad nauseum factionquests to get more faction points for your alliance... just so you actually get access to elite missions is grind... in stead of pve...

Duly Thankful

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

As someone with a job and a family, I am always going to be classed as a casual gamer, due to the limited amount of time that I can spend sitting at the computer ignoring the wife. This means that I rarely get to play for more than an hour at a time, so PvP will never be an option for me. Just as well, as I am hopeless at it

But the question about me buying Factions will boil down to :-

Will it be worth the money?

And as I have managed around 500 hours playing GW:P over the last 10 months or so, the answer is likely to be a resounding "YES". However, I do not see GW:F as a race, so I am quite happy to wait a week or two before buying it, both to run an eye over the forums and to let the price drop a bit.

If the content turns out to be heavily biased in favor of PvP I might reconsider, but I have faith in Anet's ability to keep both sides of the PvP/PvE fence happy, so I think that this is unlikely. If it just means that I lose access to the elite content, well thats part of the price I pay for being just a casual gamer in an elitist world. Lets face it - I have never been to FoW, UW, HoH or many other of the acronyms people mention on here, so I expect I won't miss it.

What a lot of people on here seem to fail to realise is that there are a HUGE number of casual gamers out there. Very few of them post on Forums, so their views are mostly ignored, but Anet is very much aware of them. They make up the bulk of the game-buying population, and contribute the majority of the profits that Anet will make. And the reason that they don't post on Forums? They are having fun playing the game.

On the forums, PvP'ers will moan about UAS/UAX, and PvE'ers will moan about not being able to access elite content. Anet will take note of their views, but balance that by making sure that their game appeals to as wide an audience as possible to maximise their income. And as long as they succeed in keeping the casual gamer happy, the Chapters will continue to roll out.

I seem to have managed to distract myself from the point of the post, so lets get back on track and say - Yes! I will be buying Factions! (Just not on April 28th)

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega X
I am just gathering input from sources other than people logged into the game at the current time.
The question has to be asked, why? what concern is it to you?

Every post I've read in this past month regarding factions, from you Omega, has been very negative!

You have activly been looking for negative feedback and continually posting replys and threads about the impending doom of factions, how all your "sources" arnt going to buy it, and why its going to be a complete failier!

Are you deliberatly trying to put people off buying factions for some reason? is there another game you would rather us all buy?

Let me tell you, I have played Guildwars for over 12 months, with the enjoyment I've had from Guildwars and the fortune I've saved myself in on-line fee's, I DONT CARE what you, your friends or any of MY friends think.. buying Factions is a No-brainer for ANYONE who has played Guildwars for ANY length of time.

Sure there are people less well off who may wait a bit longer for the price to come down and maybe it wont be breaking any records, but what the hell does it matter?

What are you so afraid of?

God Apprentice

God Apprentice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega X
It seems that most of the dust from all of the Factions talk has settled now that the release is about a week away.

But I've been talking to quite a few current and seasoned players that say that they will sit out on Factions if it ships at Full Retail price. Most said that they will settle on a sale that will reduce the price, like about $10 like Best Buy normally does after about a week. Others say that they will sit out even longer.
Now, if a lot of people feel this way then it seems that Factions will not break any sales records. It might even show worse sales numbers than the original game did. There is no way to know for sure since Anet neglects to release those numbers at all. But other sales tracking groups will release numbers regardless.

Now that many know that Factions will ship at Full Price because they consider it a new game, is it a factor? Do you feel that Factions is more than an Upgrade than a new game? Are you willing to pay full price?


Its not just an add-on. They stated this can be played as a stand alone game, hence the reason for the normal price tag.

Huntmaster

Huntmaster

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

I is not canadien

Guillotine Tactics [GanK]

R/

I'll be waiting until at least June to get factions, unless i find $50 lying around somewhere.. I don't really feel the need to play a bunch of boring PvE missions with moron PUGs all over. And if what i speculate is true, 12v12 will be possible with a Prophecies character, so that would be fine with me.

MasterThrawn

MasterThrawn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Gryffindor

No - I'll admit I did not read all the posts in this thread, so sorry if this was mentioned, but all this talk about price is rather silly. Sure an add on should not cost as much - normally, but remember we are playing a game with no monthly fees or charges after the purchase. Anet has to make up the money somewhere. Just imagine if we are playing WoW or something like that - how much would we have paid for this game than>>??

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntmaster
I'll be waiting until at least June to get factions, unless i find $50 lying around somewhere.. I don't really feel the need to play a bunch of boring PvE missions with moron PUGs all over. And if what i speculate is true, 12v12 will be possible with a Prophecies character, so that would be fine with me.
How do you figure? I thought the 12v12 arenas are in Cantha only, for PvE characters?

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
How do you figure? I thought the 12v12 arenas are in Cantha only, for PvE characters?
because there are still luxon and kurzick reps at the guildhall!, so its an assumption that people without factions could play Alliance battles.

Though Im not 100% sure about it myself, maybe there is another confirmation of this.

hidden_agenda

hidden_agenda

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

back to the OP about people who are going to sit out of faction (at least for the foreseeable future...)

I have a somewhat similar experience. Last year, I've managed to get my wife, two co-workers, one friend into Prophecy. One of the co-workers then got his wife into the game as well. The joke around the office was that Anet must pay me a sales commission or something...

None of us is really concerned with the price of the game. Most of us felt that the game was well worth it -- as $50 divided by hundreds of hours of entertainment is equal to a couple of cents per hour... Probably some of the best entertainment dollars ever spent by us.

So how come everyone else (except my wife and myself) will be sitting out Fraction?

Well, I think there are a couple of issues:

1) we are definitely casual gamers so we are not into PvP. PvE would be the only reason we're interested in a game.

2) most of us cites graphics as the #1 reason for buying it. although Faction looks good, it doesn't look compelling enough (unlike Prophecy) as a standalone.

3) to a degree, good gameplay and gripping story line can reinforce #2. I think Anet really screwed up the RP portion of the RPG, so that it didn't feel gripping, and at least 3 people in the group above had lost interest amidst the game due to this.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

So how come everyone else (except my wife and myself) will be sitting out Fraction?

.....
3) to a degree, good gameplay and gripping story line can reinforce #2. I think Anet really screwed up the RP portion of the RPG, so that it didn't feel gripping, and at least 3 people in the group above had lost interest amidst the game due to this.


EDIT: Gah! I totally misread this post.

Apologies.

I hope the Role-playing aspect will improve. If the "Kill All the _____" quests are any indication, we could actually permanently effect our instances with our actions!

That will go a long way in satisfying my general feelings that my actions don't mean anything.

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

3) to a degree, good gameplay and gripping story line can reinforce #2. I think Anet really screwed up the RP portion of the RPG, so that it didn't feel gripping, and at least 3 people in the group above had lost interest amidst the game due to this.
Can I just ask...

How do you know Anet really screwed up the RP portion?.. the game isnt even out yet and the preview event was only a fraction of the full game.

Also,

How did you and your friends originally come to know that prohechies was a good game with a good storyline so much that you went out and all purchased it?

Renegade ++RIP++

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Can I just ask...

How do you know Anet really screwed up the RP portion?.. the game isnt even out yet and the preview event was only a fraction of the full game.

Also,

How did you and your friends originally come to know that prohechies was a good game with a good storyline so much that you went out and all purchased it?
sigh please reread what the person stated. they weren't turned down by the RP in factions but by the rp in Prophecies. you know it looks cool at start but after a time it ain't as great anymore which turned them down from buying the next chapter. And going on a limp, they prolly joined with factions preview event as well and didn't like what they saw. But this would be hypothesising.

The guy bought it first and then coaxed his colleges into playing as well, seeing that he is still playing that should answer your second question...

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThrawn
No - I'll admit I did not read all the posts in this thread, so sorry if this was mentioned, but all this talk about price is rather silly. Sure an add on should not cost as much - normally, but remember we are playing a game with no monthly fees or charges after the purchase. Anet has to make up the money somewhere. Just imagine if we are playing WoW or something like that - how much would we have paid for this game than>>??
For me, it's the considered value of the price and getting the full extent of what I feel I paid for. Read that again, carefully if everyone will, note what I said: "Considered value"; "full extent" and "I feel".

For the price of the game, I don't feel I'm getting enough for the money, as other seem to feel the same way. Hidden Agenda seems there should be more RP content and less competition (if I read what he says correctly, if not, I'm sorry).

For Chapter 1, I feel I got way over the value of $50. Keep in mind, it was the first experience with the game and now that the newness has worn off, the things it lacked, I and others are seeking to fill in the gaps.

This gap filling is what Anet is doing with Factions, only, it's not the gaps I and others were looking for... hence, it's not worth the cost (due to value).

As for what Mordakai says about being able to see enough in the FPE. He's right, no one could really see what the PvE content was... this is due to the FPE showing yet more PvP based gaming. This shows us that the PvE (which was what was supposed to be shown on the FPE) is leaning towards competitive play, or PvP. Therefore, it's easily assumed (yea, assume - so I and others may be way off) that while there is new quests and missions for PvE to play in, there will be more PvP based playstyles than before... hence the games lean towards PvP.

My friend Thom (/wave "Hi Thom") helps keep me looking at my posts, I try not to "slam" the game, sometimes it may seem that way, but I think that it comes across that way when I state something as opinion or posted fact from another and it strikes a nerve. So, I didn't mean to slam the game if it came across that way. Each person should take a look at what Factions has to offer and see if it fits the "value" for them.

Also, some things are "being looked into" by Anet. Access to UW/FoW so changes to the faction point system may also be being looked at. Some people here have already seen it and posted there, but for those who haven't: Gaile Chat Log

Some hope at least for those who think Anet doesn't listen at all - I know they listen, that's why I stick around posted even after I've opted out of this Chapter.... who knows, if they change those things I don't like in time for Christmas '06 I may grab a copy.

Vilaptca

Vilaptca

Pre-Searing Vanquisher

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

This kind of thread disappoints me. I see people coming in here complaining, complaining, complaining, but when someone points out some flaws in their statements, they ignore it and continue.

What we all seen was little compared to what we are getting. The game will be out in a little less than two weeks. Be sure that this forum will be flooded with information about the game. I suggest that those of you who have problems with Factions, from only playing but a Beta preview event, that you should return and see what we really are getting. Check Riverside, Sardelac, Factions and the Screenshot forums. Please, read all the complaints, all the praises and check out all the new pictures.

This is how I think you will truly know if Factions is for you. Basing it off of what they allowed us to see in the preview event is silly. Its like eating the crumb from someones sandwich and telling them their sandwich tastes like crap. You've only tasted a incredibly small portion, which happened to only be the bread, there is still all the meat and toppings that you are missing out on trying. And from that crumb coming up with the conclusion that their sandwich is crap and you won't ever buy that sandwich is...just silly.

I understand what everyone is getting at. I'm not stupid. Please don't quote this and try to tell me how I'm wrong, because I know what I'm talking about. You DON'T know what we are getting. You can only guess. And from your guesses you have decided not to get Factions. That is fine, I'm not here to convince you otherwise. But as I said, it does disappoint me to see people here are so quick to judge.

That being said, I hope to see all you who are buying Factions in a few weeks in Cantha, and those that aren't planning on it right now, well I hope to see you reading threads and reviews on Factions to find out the truth.

Vilaptca

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasAGuest
As for what Mordakai says about being able to see enough in the FPE. He's right, no one could really see what the PvE content was... this is due to the FPE showing yet more PvP based gaming. This shows us that the PvE (which was what was supposed to be shown on the FPE) is leaning towards competitive play, or PvP. Therefore, it's easily assumed (yea, assume - so I and others may be way off) that while there is new quests and missions for PvE to play in, there will be more PvP based playstyles than before... hence the games lean towards PvP.
It's true, they did show off the 12v12 quite nicely, but did you actually do the quests in the PvE portion? How about the competitive missions? I know the missions that blend PvE and PvP won't appeal to all, but this PvEr had a blast. I found personally that some people focusing on the other players allowed me to be more PvE-ish and work on the objectives. As for the quests... the baby turtle escort was one of the best quests I've done in a GW game! Fast-paced controlled chaos. Ah, I miss those turtles...

Not an attempt at criticism, but it feels to me personally that you may have missed some of the things that were offered and that at least a portion of your subconscience feels like what you experienced is "it".

If I could recommend... well hell, who can stop me, it's a web page, right? (Sorry... ) Perhaps hold off a month or so and see what the initial reviews look like rather than completely dismiss the chapter.

Personally, I'll be diving into the Jade Sea head-first (how's that for a visual?) and will of course be sharing experiences, as will many others.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilaptca
This kind of thread disappoints me. I see people coming in here complaining, complaining, complaining, but when someone points out some flaws in their statements, they ignore it and continue.

What we all seen was little compared to what we are getting. The game will be out in a little less than two weeks. Be sure that this forum will be flooded with information about the game. I suggest that those of you who have problems with Factions, from only playing but a Beta preview event, that you should return and see what we really are getting. Check Riverside, Sardelac, Factions and the Screenshot forums. Please, read all the complaints, all the praises and check out all the new pictures.

This is how I think you will truly know if Factions is for you. Basing it off of what they allowed us to see in the preview event is silly. Its like eating the crumb from someones sandwich and telling them their sandwich tastes like crap. You've only tasted a incredibly small portion, which happened to only be the bread, there is still all the meat and toppings that you are missing out on trying. And from that crumb coming up with the conclusion that their sandwich is crap and you won't ever buy that sandwich is...just silly.

I understand what everyone is getting at. I'm not stupid. Please don't quote this and try to tell me how I'm wrong, because I know what I'm talking about. You DON'T know what we are getting. You can only guess. And from your guesses you have decided not to get Factions. That is fine, I'm not here to convince you otherwise. But as I said, it does disappoint me to see people here are so quick to judge.

That being said, I hope to see all you who are buying Factions in a few weeks in Cantha, and those that aren't planning on it right now, well I hope to see you reading threads and reviews on Factions to find out the truth.

Vilaptca
How can such brilliance be wasted on the Kurzicks...

refused

refused

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Alabama ;/

Unknown Warriors[UW]

I know this has most likely been posted on here before, but I remember a year ago when I started playing and remember hearing that the expansions would be cheaper, but they apparently put in more effort and made it stand-alone as I read in the faq. I honestly don't mind and could care less about money. I went ahead and preordered the game yesterday even though I haven't played since June 2005. I beat the game by May, but I deleted all my characters and have them as placeholders and plan to go through both continents and beat everything and actually indulge in the content I missed out on, which is A LOT. I really don't think this whole ordeal is a big deal at all. Just a small amount of money and I don't even have a job yet. From what I see and what they are offering is excellent. Hell, even if the game isn't worth stand-alone price, I'll just shrug off the extra $20 as for something they earned. I just love to play games, especially MMORPG's, but I'll never pay monthy for a game, which is why I have such a high regard for GW. I don't see waiting as a problem, but personally, I'm just eager to jump in the new continent and experience the uniqueness all over again.

Now I am a PvE person by heart, but when I joined a guild that did PvP, it was intense by far. I really love it and the balances are just something people will have to adjust to and so far it sounds like a challange, and I am all about challanges.

I think the sales will be fine to be honest. Somehow I don't think Guild Wars will be letting up anytime soon.

P.S. I'm not a rich person at all as that sort of sounds like I don't give much value to money, which I do to a resonable extent.

I am joining the Luxons as for I see a massive influx over in the Kurzicks area which doesn't appeal to me at all. I kind of like the freespirited Luxons anyways.

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
It's true, they did show off the 12v12 quite nicely, but did you actually do the quests in the PvE portion? How about the competitive missions? I know the missions that blend PvE and PvP won't appeal to all, but this PvEr had a blast. I found personally that some people focusing on the other players allowed me to be more PvE-ish and work on the objectives. As for the quests... the baby turtle escort was one of the best quests I've done in a GW game! Fast-paced controlled chaos. Ah, I miss those turtles...
Yea, I did as many PvE quests as I could find as quickly as I could find. Thom called me on the "speed rush" once before, and he was right about my rushing through. However, what I had my eyes set on and what I enjoy is not the interim quests, it's the Missions. The Missions (IMO) are the most fun part of the game. Those same missions I was looking for ended up being Jade Quarry, the Competitive Missions. I did try it, got cursed at, screamed at... I dropped several times cause I'm not into abuse for fun. My play style and what I find fun in the game seriously did not mesh with Factions.
I did enjoy those Oni though. I finally got to play as a Monk in the FPE and those things had me for dinner. hehe

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Not an attempt at criticism, but it feels to me personally that you may have missed some of the things that were offered and that at least a portion of your subconscience feels like what you experienced is "it".
No criticism taken and I admit (and have done so many a time) I did miss some things. In my rush to gain faction points so I could see the actual Co-op missions, I missed quite a bit. And this is where the execution of the game doesn't agree with me and many others. The faction point farming needed to access the content we want for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
If I could recommend... well hell, who can stop me, it's a web page, right? (Sorry... ) Perhaps hold off a month or so and see what the initial reviews look like rather than completely dismiss the chapter.
Excellent advise and I would say it would be wise for anyone to follow. My problem was (is) there is several other games I want (Oblivion was one, NWN2 later) and I have a "game" budget. /cough Wife stole the pants years ago /cough With the limited budget and the "unsure" about Factions I went ahead and bought something else. Currently, as it stands, I still wouldn't buy Factions unless, as I said before, the execution of the game is changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Personally, I'll be diving into the Jade Sea head-first (how's that for a visual?) and will of course be sharing experiences, as will many others.
I have this image of you now with a flat head talking in front of us all... lol - anyway, good stuff here, I'll be following and watching for changes. If I like what I see then you bet I'll be getting it come December, if not, then Chapter 3 will be out by then... and if that one stinks... well, NWN2... If only I was rich... /sigh

dargon

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by refused
I know this has most likely been posted on here before, but I remember a year ago when I started playing and remember hearing that the expansions would be cheaper, but they apparently put in more effort and made it stand-alone as I read in the faq. I honestly don't mind and could care less about money.
Not sure what you read or whom you may have heard that from, but since Ch1 was released they have always said that "expansions will have atleast as much content as the original, and be priced accordingly", never that they would be cheaper, etc. I suspect that a lot of people read that as "expansions will be priced accordingly" and assumed that the typical expansion (read +4-8 more hours of fun over the original) would have a typical expansion price. ANet is not typical and iMO, not out to rip the money from your wallet at every opportunity.

refused

refused

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Alabama ;/

Unknown Warriors[UW]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dargon
Not sure what you read or whom you may have heard that from, but since Ch1 was released they have always said that "expansions will have atleast as much content as the original, and be priced accordingly", never that they would be cheaper, etc. I suspect that a lot of people read that as "expansions will be priced accordingly" and assumed that the typical expansion (read +4-8 more hours of fun over the original) would have a typical expansion price. ANet is not typical and iMO, not out to rip the money from your wallet at every opportunity.
Oh, ok. Thanks for the heads up, I didn't even know that. I just thought this was some sort of exception.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilaptca
You DON'T know what we are getting. You can only guess.
Vilaptca
preordered the CE on simple faith i will find at least a quarter of the fun chapter 1 has (and is still) given.

even a complete washout prorated is an extreme bargain.

if they stumble on a chapter i want my purchase to fund the next in progress to see what happens.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasAGuest
I have this image of you now with a flat head talking in front of us all... lol - anyway, good stuff here, I'll be following and watching for changes. If I like what I see then you bet I'll be getting it come December, if not, then Chapter 3 will be out by then... and if that one stinks... well, NWN2... If only I was rich... /sigh
One more thing you may consider... you can get the preorder key for $5.00 in many cases... that would give you two days of getting the feel for the real Cantha for short money. Odds are, that would be enough to verify/alleviate any concerns you have. Plus, you might pick up a few skills to take home to Tyria!

Omega X

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
The question has to be asked, why? what concern is it to you?

Every post I've read in this past month regarding factions, from you Omega, has been very negative!

You have activly been looking for negative feedback and continually posting replys and threads about the impending doom of factions, how all your "sources" arnt going to buy it, and why its going to be a complete failier!

Are you deliberatly trying to put people off buying factions for some reason? is there another game you would rather us all buy?

Let me tell you, I have played Guildwars for over 12 months, with the enjoyment I've had from Guildwars and the fortune I've saved myself in on-line fee's, I DONT CARE what you, your friends or any of MY friends think.. buying Factions is a No-brainer for ANYONE who has played Guildwars for ANY length of time.

Sure there are people less well off who may wait a bit longer for the price to come down and maybe it wont be breaking any records, but what the hell does it matter?

What are you so afraid of?
#1. I am NOT trying to convince anyone NOT to buy Factions. People are free to buy what they please.

#2. The Sources are the people here and in game. You are one of them just now by voicing your thoughts.

#3. You don't care what anyone thinks what you buy and that's ok. But I'm sure Anet does.


Heh...you don't know me and I didn't post much of any "impending doom" comments. I only voiced my opinion and concern.

I am looking for answers to whether or not to buy the game in addition to figure out what is everyone elses decision to buy the game other than "because its Guild Wars and a no brainer for people who played the first one". I am not into the habit of buying coasters. AND the vibes from Factions are too erradic to make a decision on my own currently. If this was an expansion, I wouldn't be asking the questions. In fact it would be a very clear "no brainer" but its not according to the people who made it, so the rules change. When Factions was announced, I was all for it actually. But as the information started to trickle down the grapevine, I just started thinking more objectively instead of simply being blinded by a new release. I want Guild Wars to succed at what it does just as much as anyone. But it doesn't happen when a lot of voices goes unheard for much needed improvements and options. So the thread serves more than one purpose actually.

So my question to you is...IF you don't care then why try to attack me? Why try to stop discussion on a discussion board about the proper topic in the proper area? If people thought that this was just another stupid thread discussing nothing, why is it 5+ pages long with responses? I mean, if you feel that it doesn't affect or concern you then why go through all of the effort to make me the bad guy for asking questions?

Fred Kiwi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

[cola]

im definately going to wait, im going to see the impression people post on the forums about the feel of it all, i really hope that they don't have all those crappy quests, and they better have less monsters per square inch.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

I can't believe people are that concerned about $50.

I spent more than that for dinner last night. Even if you save $10 a week you can buy factions within a month of savings. If you bought a $1 soda everyday at work or school that's $30 a month you just spent. I don't think the cost of the game should even be an issue. I'm not rich by no means and find ways to cut corners to fit my budgeting needs.

With my 2000+ hours plus in game time that cost me $0.025 per hour. Better than that $15-20 per month I would have payed for other games that I feel are less quality.

The game will be good. They gave us a free preview of basicly the entire game upfront so you know what you are getting. They could have just kept everything for release. That would have gotton them more sales in the end since these type of arguments wouldn't have happened.

The game industry is really shitty atm. Comp games are stalling release because of console games. Most will be switching over after ps3 and 360 releases. Both are basicly high end computers. Expect to see less comp games after they take root. Console games are crap because everything is being focused on next gen.

I really don't see anything else to spend my $50 on. Except maybe 16 gallons of gas.

Exoudeous

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

E/

People that are complaing about it being 50 bucks are just doing it so tehy have something to complain about.

so its 50 dollars, how is that a big diffrence from 40. wow 10 bucks, you cant buy squat with 10 bucks.

also considering people have been playing this game for a year without spending a penny since their first purchase of the game. money form the game is the only way anet is able to keep the game free. and considering they do upates then past mmos that I payed a montly fee for, I say they deserve every penny for the work they do.

also I want to support the type of game they are doing, If this game keeps doing well, there may be other online rpgs that have free online.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoudeous
wow 10 bucks, you cant buy squat with 10 bucks.
.
10 bucks used to get me all the following for 10 bucks
full tank of 102 octane (15+ gallons)
a double feature at the drive-in
lots of snacks,
with change left over.

that is all of them not any of them
today?

dargon

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
10 bucks used to get me all the following for 10 bucks
full tank of 102 octane (15+ gallons)
a double feature at the drive-in
lots of snacks,
with change left over.

that is all of them not any of them
today?
today you get 3 gallons of premium gas and a can of pop with a small amount of change left over

Omega X

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I can't believe people are that concerned about $50.

I spent more than that for dinner last night. Even if you save $10 a week you can buy factions within a month of savings. If you bought a $1 soda everyday at work or school that's $30 a month you just spent. I don't think the cost of the game should even be an issue. I'm not rich by no means and find ways to cut corners to fit my budgeting needs.

With my 2000+ hours plus in game time that cost me $0.025 per hour. Better than that $15-20 per month I would have payed for other games that I feel are less quality.

The game will be good. They gave us a free preview of basicly the entire game upfront so you know what you are getting. They could have just kept everything for release. That would have gotton them more sales in the end since these type of arguments wouldn't have happened.

The game industry is really shitty atm. Comp games are stalling release because of console games. Most will be switching over after ps3 and 360 releases. Both are basicly high end computers. Expect to see less comp games after they take root. Console games are crap because everything is being focused on next gen.

I really don't see anything else to spend my $50 on. Except maybe 16 gallons of gas.
That is extremely ignorant. People can do plenty with $50 bucks. AND the entire gaming industry doesn't suck. Otherwise computer games would still be wastes of time instead of a past time.

sleepin4lyf

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
Why do people keep saying "for PvP only"?

It should be quite obvious by now that, the more people you have in your alliance, the higher chance of you holding city for elite missions.

Nothing to do with elite skills or anything. If EvIL don't get couple hundreds of members like XoO, they can't even come close to compete with XoO in holding a city.

There are also faction quests that is repeatable, and give you as much faction as the PvP in about the same amount of time. Only that it is boring and tedious (to me), but garuntee 500 factions everytime.

It is all about numbers, unfortunately. Let's see who got the most skill in advertising their guild to get members.
there's going to be a maximum number of people allowed in the elite missions. if they let everybody that wanted to fight in these things their servers would literally blow up. think about it.

Terminal

Terminal

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Vocal Minority, R.I.P.

Mo/Me

This response will likely be lost in the sea of reply, but I'll endeavor to comment my 2 cents worth anyways.

I have (like some other here) played every major MMO to come out in the last 5 years. I shall refrain from listing them all since it sounds too much like appointing oneself with credentials so as to make one's opinion sound more viable than it actually might be.

Saying that, I am a ArenaNet and NCSoft fan. Nobody else comes close to their brilliant implementation of game mechanics across all major developers, sans Blizzard. And it shows in their market share.

I love GuildWars. It is a breath of fresh air in the "same-old" cycle of horrifically imbalanced classes, poor mechanics and gameplay which most other companies implement in their games.

I would have paid $ 15 a month gladly to play this game. And I will gladly pay the full retail price of the expansion, even though I might not be able to play till as late as December on account of a 8-month internship i will be embarking on from this summer.

Also, in addenum, if you notice, NCSoft, ANet's parent company doesn't charge for it's expansions, at least not in Lineage 2, which has a mammoth subscription base, even though other companies do. Reason ? It funds it's free expansions through the monthly fee of playing. So how does GW fund it's expansions since it doesn't have a monthly fee attached ? Through the revenue from expansions.

Even I don't think that ANet will sell 1 million+ copies of Factions like they did with Prophecies. But I will be glad to hear of it of they do. May ANet make many millions $ from Factions.

GW is a superb game and I'll be showing my support by buying factions.

Mind you, i'm not in a guild and won't be joining one. So some of the content will not be available to me. But I know i'll still love it.

Teet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/Me

I love Guild Wars!!!

Yuo Can Do It!

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Rt/Me

2 reasons it's worth the 50$:

1. It's considered as a standalone game AND an expansion. It's both.
2. You don't have to pay 15$ a month for Guild Wars like you do with WoW. I would, for one, like to pay 50$ around every 6-8 months than 15$ each month PLUS money for expansions to keep playing and expanding Guild Wars.

Intera

Intera

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Remnants of Ascalon

Me/R

Don't forget guys that EB does its 7 day returns policy for any reason and you can get all your money back.

So if you're unsure about the purchase you could just return it.

N.B. I sound like an EB Salesman...but I'm not, just trying to help.

Omega X

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intera
Don't forget guys that EB does its 7 day returns policy for any reason and you can get all your money back.

So if you're unsure about the purchase you could just return it.

N.B. I sound like an EB Salesman...but I'm not, just trying to help.
That's only for console games last time I heard. I tried doing that with a PC game a while back and they refused to take it back simply because the seal was broken. (Or was that Game Stop...either way, they are the same company now.)

Intera

Intera

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Remnants of Ascalon

Me/R

Well in Australia I believe you can have 7 days, or it might even be 14 days now at EB. But do check before going and buying it on my word.