MM Nerfed??
OMFGimCUTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
Um, more like 15-20...
true. u just probably never seen a real MM. oh and shit im pissed they fuked MM. it was my favorite build. Good bye MF i guess...
OMFGimCUTE
oh and im not that pissed ^^
Dr. Fire
Come on folks, get over it. I too, will miss the hordes, but I will adapt. I dumped VS and threw on a damage spell, so now I make minions, heal em, and attack. Or make your secondary Monk and add Heal area to heal yourself and your minions even more. I, quite frankly, am going to change my secondary to Rt and play around with MM / Spirit spammer. Could be a powerful build.
Nigel Strange
Someone was talking about balance with respect to solo farming. I just want to know why you need "balance" when the whole point is to go "solo." I mean, don't the two things naturally contradict one another. The thing is, EoE or Meteor Storm can both decimate a population of animated things, so much so that they were almost never used in PVP. So why the nerf?
The answer is that some people were trying to play by themselves. They obviously want to discourage any time spent away from others...like communists or cultists.
Besides, being a solo necro was never easy (unless you were a skill level or two above the ambient monsters). You have to make the first kill without any help, and that is not too easy for someone dedicated to MMing. Add to that the impossibility of finding corpses later in the game, and you already have a character that is handicapped in the later game. I had to switch to SS to finish the Prophecies. So it's not like you could just be a MM and dominate everything.
But what if you could? Wouldn't it be nice to have a build where you could go out with the stupid henchies and complete the missions without a rude PUG? The henchies are there for a reason, but they're grossly inadequate for anything later. That deficit was partially compensated for by the bone horde.
The answer is that some people were trying to play by themselves. They obviously want to discourage any time spent away from others...like communists or cultists.
Besides, being a solo necro was never easy (unless you were a skill level or two above the ambient monsters). You have to make the first kill without any help, and that is not too easy for someone dedicated to MMing. Add to that the impossibility of finding corpses later in the game, and you already have a character that is handicapped in the later game. I had to switch to SS to finish the Prophecies. So it's not like you could just be a MM and dominate everything.
But what if you could? Wouldn't it be nice to have a build where you could go out with the stupid henchies and complete the missions without a rude PUG? The henchies are there for a reason, but they're grossly inadequate for anything later. That deficit was partially compensated for by the bone horde.
Thallandor
In a way we should have seen this coming: With Factions we are getting a Flesh golem Elite lvl 28 @ 16death, lvl 32 @ 17Death and Vamp Horrors which i was personally looking forward to the two skills with great anticipation.
A prenerf Tyria ascended MM just need to add these two skills to their existing bars and you can pretty much solo most places for farming purposes in PvE. Apart from all the MM hate mail Anet got from other players, they must have realised this fact and wanted to prevent another solo farming build having failied badly with 55 monks and decided to nip it in the bud before ever allowing it to become a problem in the first place hence killing it even for the non farmers.
So its fair to say its not so much a PvP but rather a PvE nerf, or a pre-emptive farming nerf strike.
This show of things to come: AoE AI *upgrade*, MM nerf.... Guild Wars is a great game no doubt, but its greatest pride for being balanced will also be its main reason for its failure. Sadly when a game dont become fun to play, it loses its intented purpose. Hopefully this will never come to pass.
Edit for spelling
A prenerf Tyria ascended MM just need to add these two skills to their existing bars and you can pretty much solo most places for farming purposes in PvE. Apart from all the MM hate mail Anet got from other players, they must have realised this fact and wanted to prevent another solo farming build having failied badly with 55 monks and decided to nip it in the bud before ever allowing it to become a problem in the first place hence killing it even for the non farmers.
So its fair to say its not so much a PvP but rather a PvE nerf, or a pre-emptive farming nerf strike.
This show of things to come: AoE AI *upgrade*, MM nerf.... Guild Wars is a great game no doubt, but its greatest pride for being balanced will also be its main reason for its failure. Sadly when a game dont become fun to play, it loses its intented purpose. Hopefully this will never come to pass.
Edit for spelling
Crenait
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
Who knows ANET might nerf 55s farming through the addition of mesmers and necros for strip enchantment purposes? You do not neccessarily need to nerf skills in order to nerf a farming build, specially when it is based on enchantments.
55 monks were BUFFED this patch. They reduced the cooldown of shield of judgement to 25 seconds. This is what I use to farm with my 55 monk, and I can get it to last up to 31 seconds. I'd trade my 55 buff for my MM power back, though >.>
R3g4rd5,
4 N3cr0
(annoying, eh?)
R3g4rd5,
4 N3cr0
(annoying, eh?)
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
We did gain some very ncie stuff, however. Flesh golem is a very nice spell, as are the vampiric horrors. Instead of thinking how the old build will no longer steamroll everything in pve, think about how you can make a new build involving all of these awesome skills and items thayve made avaliable to you... You get a bonus for having 3 minions from the new armor... and you have a very powerful high level minion which pretty much lasts forever. You could throw blood magic into the mix for life taps and DoTs, while your flesh golem slaughters stuff and your vamp horrors keep you alive... Flesh golem and vampiric horrors really give you alot of bang for your corpse.
Not everyone has access to those things.
Lord Oranos
Guys, a simple solution to the veratas sac nerf is this:
Aura of The Lich
Blood Renewal
Blood of The Master
The 3 above skills work like a charm.
Aura of The Lich
Blood Renewal
Blood of The Master
The 3 above skills work like a charm.
Rajamic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crenait
55 monks were BUFFED this patch. They reduced the cooldown of shield of judgement to 25 seconds. This is what I use to farm with my 55 monk, and I can get it to last up to 31 seconds. I'd trade my 55 buff for my MM power back, though >.>
R3g4rd5,
4 N3cr0
(annoying, eh?) Signet of Judgement got reduced recharge, not Shield.
As to the MM issue. Firstly, I decided a long time ago that since I didn't have a Necro Prime before, Factions was going to get a Minion Master out of me. And it still will. All this did was make a minion army as powerful as one or two characters, instead of the replacement for an entire team like it was before. Really, once you got an army of 25+ going, the rest of the party was meaningless, as your minions steamrolled through everything. And 25 wasn't that hard to pull off.
I am concerned what this does to Prophecies MMs. Without the old Verata's or vampiric underlings, BotM is going to be horribly inadequite, I think, due to its sac cost.
Verata's Sacrifice is not some worthless skill now. I doubt good MMs will bring it, but it definitely has its use. Just like Flesh Golem, it now addresses the one weakness MMs have always had: getting things rolling. Really, when you had a huge army, how many minions were getting next to no benefit from VS anyway, since they were already well past 10 degen? The new VS is perfect for getting an army started.
(I can see Verata going into a tavern and ordering a drink, only to have Galrath look over at him and say "So no one's using your namesake skills now either, eh?")
I do have a problem with the cap as they implemented it, but I don't think it could be helped. At first, I felt a 7% per minion sac cost on BotM would be enough (would instakill you if you had more than 14 undead), but Aura of the Lich causes problems with that.
R3g4rd5,
4 N3cr0
(annoying, eh?) Signet of Judgement got reduced recharge, not Shield.
As to the MM issue. Firstly, I decided a long time ago that since I didn't have a Necro Prime before, Factions was going to get a Minion Master out of me. And it still will. All this did was make a minion army as powerful as one or two characters, instead of the replacement for an entire team like it was before. Really, once you got an army of 25+ going, the rest of the party was meaningless, as your minions steamrolled through everything. And 25 wasn't that hard to pull off.
I am concerned what this does to Prophecies MMs. Without the old Verata's or vampiric underlings, BotM is going to be horribly inadequite, I think, due to its sac cost.
Verata's Sacrifice is not some worthless skill now. I doubt good MMs will bring it, but it definitely has its use. Just like Flesh Golem, it now addresses the one weakness MMs have always had: getting things rolling. Really, when you had a huge army, how many minions were getting next to no benefit from VS anyway, since they were already well past 10 degen? The new VS is perfect for getting an army started.
(I can see Verata going into a tavern and ordering a drink, only to have Galrath look over at him and say "So no one's using your namesake skills now either, eh?")
I do have a problem with the cap as they implemented it, but I don't think it could be helped. At first, I felt a 7% per minion sac cost on BotM would be enough (would instakill you if you had more than 14 undead), but Aura of the Lich causes problems with that.
Malachi The Fallen
For me, it just took another HUGE part of the fun from the game.
I play an ele and a necro. Liked to play a fire ele in PvE, exceling myself in use of various DoT AoE spells, to damage enemies accordingly, not to throw the spells where they weren't needed. This could never be done perfectly though, so i had much fun in going near to perfect.
Then they made those spells, like firestorm, useless, and every single fire ele went for arcane echo, meteor shower, meteor shower, etc, etc... wait. Everyone does it the same way now. Boring as hell.
So i went to perfect myself in minion mastery, building huge armies required skill, i almost didn't have the time to pick up drops, always doing something.
And also you could never make a perfect army.
Now everypone will have 10 minions and be bored again.
It's just my personal experience of course, but i think i wouldn't even buy Factions if i knew "upgrading" the game to chapter 2 would mean downgrading the fun for me.
I play an ele and a necro. Liked to play a fire ele in PvE, exceling myself in use of various DoT AoE spells, to damage enemies accordingly, not to throw the spells where they weren't needed. This could never be done perfectly though, so i had much fun in going near to perfect.
Then they made those spells, like firestorm, useless, and every single fire ele went for arcane echo, meteor shower, meteor shower, etc, etc... wait. Everyone does it the same way now. Boring as hell.
So i went to perfect myself in minion mastery, building huge armies required skill, i almost didn't have the time to pick up drops, always doing something.
And also you could never make a perfect army.
Now everypone will have 10 minions and be bored again.
It's just my personal experience of course, but i think i wouldn't even buy Factions if i knew "upgrading" the game to chapter 2 would mean downgrading the fun for me.
Thallandor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi The Fallen
It's just my personal experience of course, but i think i wouldn't even buy Factions if i knew "upgrading" the game to chapter 2 would mean downgrading the fun for me.
Then exercise your freedom and dont get it if thats how strongly you feel about it, and by doing so you are sending a message stronger than anything you can type on these forums in words.
I am personally waiting on the CE issue to see how it will be resloved to decide but am inclined to get it to play along side friends and guidies but seriously i have trouble recommeding this game to new players/friends sadly.
I am personally waiting on the CE issue to see how it will be resloved to decide but am inclined to get it to play along side friends and guidies but seriously i have trouble recommeding this game to new players/friends sadly.
Malachi The Fallen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallandor
Then exercise your freedom and dont get it
The problem is i liked GW for the minion master so much, i got Factions in preorder. 
c33sh0nd
im a big noob and i could get 20+ minions without much of a problem, and when i had over 10 it already started to get pretty easy.
just to link this to diablo... the zoomancers in diablo 2 got nerfed aswell, giving not 1 skelly a skilllvl anymore, but a boost for your current skellys, and every 3 i believe skilll lvls the max would go up by 1. so in the end you would have 25ish skellys that were rather squisy, and now you got like 7 or 8 but alot more beefy.
in both games the "huge army" necros were overpowered, and i feel that since i think GW is about skill, this is a good nerf. even a noob like me could get over 20 summons, and soloing was as easy as it gets after the first few kills.
i think people just got used to easy mode play, and are only complaining because they`ll have to do more then press 2 buttons all day. feel free to flame away. its sad enough already people got as they are now.. obssessed by easymode gameplay
just to link this to diablo... the zoomancers in diablo 2 got nerfed aswell, giving not 1 skelly a skilllvl anymore, but a boost for your current skellys, and every 3 i believe skilll lvls the max would go up by 1. so in the end you would have 25ish skellys that were rather squisy, and now you got like 7 or 8 but alot more beefy.
in both games the "huge army" necros were overpowered, and i feel that since i think GW is about skill, this is a good nerf. even a noob like me could get over 20 summons, and soloing was as easy as it gets after the first few kills.
i think people just got used to easy mode play, and are only complaining because they`ll have to do more then press 2 buttons all day. feel free to flame away. its sad enough already people got as they are now.. obssessed by easymode gameplay
Dr. Fire
I am working on a Rt/N that will be all Communing/Death Magic/Spawning. It will be set-up as a MM/Spirits. There is a RT skill that gives you health and energy for everything that you spawn. This includes Necro minions. Best thing is it is a non-elite. I think this build will be pwnalicious. I will update you as I gain lvls and skills. Also I believe that when you make Bone Minions you get the energy and health for both. I will check this out later today when I get in-game. Also BM now only costs 15 energy. I am using them as bombs right now (with death nova) but may switch up as I gain attribute points.
*Also posted this on another thread*
*Also posted this on another thread*
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
I am working on a Rt/N that will be all Communing/Death Magic/Spawning. It will be set-up as a MM/Spirits. There is a RT skill that gives you health and energy for everything that you spawn. This includes Necro minions. Best thing is it is a non-elite. I think this build will be pwnalicious. I will update you as I gain lvls and skills. Also I believe that when you make Bone Minions you get the energy and health for both. I will check this out later today when I get in-game. Also BM now only costs 15 energy. I am using them as bombs right now (with death nova) but may switch up as I gain attribute points.
*Also posted this on another thread* Yes it does trigger twice with the Bone Minnions, and you may want to think about running Explosive Growth as well.
*Also posted this on another thread* Yes it does trigger twice with the Bone Minnions, and you may want to think about running Explosive Growth as well.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
I am working on a Rt/N that will be all Communing/Death Magic/Spawning. It will be set-up as a MM/Spirits. There is a RT skill that gives you health and energy for everything that you spawn. This includes Necro minions. Best thing is it is a non-elite. I think this build will be pwnalicious. I will update you as I gain lvls and skills. Also I believe that when you make Bone Minions you get the energy and health for both. I will check this out later today when I get in-game. Also BM now only costs 15 energy. I am using them as bombs right now (with death nova) but may switch up as I gain attribute points.
*Also posted this on another thread* I have a Rit/Necro but I'm having problems with energy management and the attribute spread is a little odd. I'm thinking N/rit would be more effective with soul reaping. Let me know what you come up with.
*Also posted this on another thread* I have a Rit/Necro but I'm having problems with energy management and the attribute spread is a little odd. I'm thinking N/rit would be more effective with soul reaping. Let me know what you come up with.
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by c33sh0nd
im a big noob and i could get 20+ minions without much of a problem, and when i had over 10 it already started to get pretty easy.
just to link this to diablo... the zoomancers in diablo 2 got nerfed aswell, giving not 1 skelly a skilllvl anymore, but a boost for your current skellys, and every 3 i believe skilll lvls the max would go up by 1. so in the end you would have 25ish skellys that were rather squisy, and now you got like 7 or 8 but alot more beefy.
in both games the "huge army" necros were overpowered, and i feel that since i think GW is about skill, this is a good nerf. even a noob like me could get over 20 summons, and soloing was as easy as it gets after the first few kills.
i think people just got used to easy mode play, and are only complaining because they`ll have to do more then press 2 buttons all day. feel free to flame away. its sad enough already people got as they are now.. obssessed by easymode gameplay It was overpowered for PvE, but who cares....each person gets their own instance of the World in PvE. Which means you really aren't effecting anyone elses enjoyment, but your own and any friends you party up with. This game was designed at heart to be PvP. Minnion Masters are never ever going to play an overpowering role in PvP unless you play a very very very bad PUG.
just to link this to diablo... the zoomancers in diablo 2 got nerfed aswell, giving not 1 skelly a skilllvl anymore, but a boost for your current skellys, and every 3 i believe skilll lvls the max would go up by 1. so in the end you would have 25ish skellys that were rather squisy, and now you got like 7 or 8 but alot more beefy.
in both games the "huge army" necros were overpowered, and i feel that since i think GW is about skill, this is a good nerf. even a noob like me could get over 20 summons, and soloing was as easy as it gets after the first few kills.
i think people just got used to easy mode play, and are only complaining because they`ll have to do more then press 2 buttons all day. feel free to flame away. its sad enough already people got as they are now.. obssessed by easymode gameplay It was overpowered for PvE, but who cares....each person gets their own instance of the World in PvE. Which means you really aren't effecting anyone elses enjoyment, but your own and any friends you party up with. This game was designed at heart to be PvP. Minnion Masters are never ever going to play an overpowering role in PvP unless you play a very very very bad PUG.
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka RaTae
It was overpowered for PvE, but who cares....each person gets their own instance of the World in PvE. Which means you really aren't effecting anyone elses enjoyment, but your own and any friends you party up with. This game was designed at heart to be PvP. Minnion Masters are never ever going to play an overpowering role in PvP unless you play a very very very bad PUG.
No its really not. Because time and time again you got stupid idiots in towns bragging about how they solo'ed and got all these greens which they can sell for a fortune. And its like it completely goes to their head. Instead of being like "well I solo'ed this in 20 minutes so I can get another one" they will bleed you dry and try to take every dime you have. THIS my friend effects everyone.
I do agree with your PVP portion though, completely. You are right, doesn't affect that at all... but if nothing else MM's are even better now in PVP. They never are going to have many minions and now MM's are more designed to have less, more powerful minions.... I really think this "nerf" as everyone calls it is very balanced for both PVP and PVE. Im glad its here and I play necro and I played MM. I have no problem with it now, and I certainly have no problem getting in groups. Everywhere I look people are looking for MM's..
I do agree with your PVP portion though, completely. You are right, doesn't affect that at all... but if nothing else MM's are even better now in PVP. They never are going to have many minions and now MM's are more designed to have less, more powerful minions.... I really think this "nerf" as everyone calls it is very balanced for both PVP and PVE. Im glad its here and I play necro and I played MM. I have no problem with it now, and I certainly have no problem getting in groups. Everywhere I look people are looking for MM's..
TheBanishedOne
Well if there is a lowered number, i think they should raise the level of minions casted... instead of only level 16-18 fiends at max death, could they not riase the level of minions to offset the loss in damage? They've added the nerf, and i doubt that they will change that nerf too much. Since the army is was mainly used for tanking, they should either increase damage dealth, increase life, or increase the level summoned. This way the 10 minions will seem bigger and better to counteract the mass summonings of before.
Ka RaTae
@ Valkyries There were no MM's soloing any green farming area. BTW...farming..causes prices to fall. 
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka RaTae
@ Valkyries There were no MM's soloing any green farming area. BTW...farming..causes prices to fall.
I think that Genth's Footprint has some solo MM farmers. Maybe Im wrong but I've seen or heard of people there solo or at least 2 man it. You're right though, maybe not so much high lvl like UW or SF.
Either way, I still don't think its a bad thing. So what, you have to work a little harder now to solo. The game wasn't really meant to be solo'ed completely. Another thing is MM's are still very very good. Which is what I don't get all the flame posts. Its not like they deleted death magic or something. People are just here crying because they can't have 35 minions. Whatever, I'd rather have 10 good ones than 35 ones that will die in no time. I think its a good thing in what they did. They also gave the option now to use this in PVP as I said.... so wheres the problem? You can't storm across the map with an army of 30 guys... well neither can any other class.
I think that Genth's Footprint has some solo MM farmers. Maybe Im wrong but I've seen or heard of people there solo or at least 2 man it. You're right though, maybe not so much high lvl like UW or SF. Either way, I still don't think its a bad thing. So what, you have to work a little harder now to solo. The game wasn't really meant to be solo'ed completely. Another thing is MM's are still very very good. Which is what I don't get all the flame posts. Its not like they deleted death magic or something. People are just here crying because they can't have 35 minions. Whatever, I'd rather have 10 good ones than 35 ones that will die in no time. I think its a good thing in what they did. They also gave the option now to use this in PVP as I said.... so wheres the problem? You can't storm across the map with an army of 30 guys... well neither can any other class.
Dr. Fire
Thanks Ka Ra Tae. Checked it out last night and did get the health and energy for both. Str0b0, I got the pre-order staff that has a +5 insightful head on it so I have the full 15 energy I added an enchanting wrap, so I can keep "Boon of Creation" up constantly. Once I have enough points in Spawning I will switch the wrap to something else. I will grab Explosive growth as soon as it is available to me. I have my lvl 20 Necro MM in Factions already, and as soon as I can change his secondary to Rt, I will give the MM/Spirit build a good look from that angle as well.