MM Nerfed??
bobrath
Yes... if only you resized the image so it was actually viewable and didn't make every sentence a scroll bar nightmare.
sopexc
wow first my second accnt gets deleted with my near perfect fellblade on it now this, this is jus too much nerfing the shit out of everything this is the final i for one will not buy factions now thas jus too much for me to bear
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopexc
wow first my second accnt gets deleted with my near perfect fellblade on it now this, this is jus too much nerfing the shit out of everything this is the final i for one will not buy factions now thas jus too much for me to bear
Just like every one else, i will give you a piece of advice. Switch your character like i had to when i was nerfed. Play something else if you can't handle, or deal with your character when i forced my self to play my favourite profession. Any game has nerfs coming and going. Question is, can you handle further nerfs against your will? if not, i suggest you start searching for another game. This is not the end of the world for you my friend.
Regardz
Regardz
Thallandor
If you are gonna nerf MMs with the 10 minons limit, AT LEAST IMPROVE MINON TARGETING FFS... maybe thats the fix since you wont have much minons around to click *sighs*
MMing is actually one of the fun builds to play. I wonder what are we playing for nowadays?
MMing is actually one of the fun builds to play. I wonder what are we playing for nowadays?
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
Just like every one else, i will give you a piece of advice. Switch your character like i had to when i was nerfed. Play something else if you can't handle, or deal with your character when i forced my self to play my favourite profession. Any game has nerfs coming and going. Question is, can you handle further nerfs against your will? if not, i suggest you start searching for another game. This is not the end of the world for you my friend.
Regardz QFT my man!
I was going to post something similar but you pretty much beat me to it.
Honestly, the only thing I see is 7 pages or people crying and whinning about a few skills that the limited. (Yes I don't care if I get flamed)
Yes, they nurfed MM. Last time I checked the name is called Guild Wars.. meaning they probably don't want you to solo exceptionally hard missions, they probably want you to have a balanced group and try to finish it. Its not like they completely destroyed MM like most of you are making it out. OMFG, now Im going to have to play with a team, and I can't solo, and I can only have 10 minions. Seriously suck it up... do you think MM is the only class that they nerfed? Have you never ever played any other MMORPG games? If you don't like this, go play World of Warcraft. I've love to see that. You think this is a nerf! HA! Ask a Warlock how he liked his damage going from 5500 Crits to 1800 crits.
Back on topic, if you really don't like it you have a couple choices. First, go roll another character. They just created two brand new ones so go pick up and play it. The other is go buy another game and start playing it. No one (especailly not ANet) really cares if 5 people don't buy factions because they nerfed MM. Personally I don't even really think its that bad. Keep in mind I am a NECRO as well.... but whatever. If I don't want to do MM, Ill just switch over to Curses. There is no problem. I just hate to see the people whine and cry because they can't go solo the UW. Gimme a break!! Personally, I've played a TON of other MMORPGS and by far Guild Wars is the most balanced. ANet is just trying to keep it that way. Besides you have no idea what would happen in Cantha with 27 minions running around. Maybe it would be completely unbalanced for the new classes and they wanted to correct it. No one really knows... but regardless I don't see the big deal.
Flame away.
Regardz QFT my man!
I was going to post something similar but you pretty much beat me to it.
Honestly, the only thing I see is 7 pages or people crying and whinning about a few skills that the limited. (Yes I don't care if I get flamed)
Yes, they nurfed MM. Last time I checked the name is called Guild Wars.. meaning they probably don't want you to solo exceptionally hard missions, they probably want you to have a balanced group and try to finish it. Its not like they completely destroyed MM like most of you are making it out. OMFG, now Im going to have to play with a team, and I can't solo, and I can only have 10 minions. Seriously suck it up... do you think MM is the only class that they nerfed? Have you never ever played any other MMORPG games? If you don't like this, go play World of Warcraft. I've love to see that. You think this is a nerf! HA! Ask a Warlock how he liked his damage going from 5500 Crits to 1800 crits.
Back on topic, if you really don't like it you have a couple choices. First, go roll another character. They just created two brand new ones so go pick up and play it. The other is go buy another game and start playing it. No one (especailly not ANet) really cares if 5 people don't buy factions because they nerfed MM. Personally I don't even really think its that bad. Keep in mind I am a NECRO as well.... but whatever. If I don't want to do MM, Ill just switch over to Curses. There is no problem. I just hate to see the people whine and cry because they can't go solo the UW. Gimme a break!! Personally, I've played a TON of other MMORPGS and by far Guild Wars is the most balanced. ANet is just trying to keep it that way. Besides you have no idea what would happen in Cantha with 27 minions running around. Maybe it would be completely unbalanced for the new classes and they wanted to correct it. No one really knows... but regardless I don't see the big deal.
Flame away.
xenoranger
Ok, here's the nerf in a nutshell.
10 Minions Max
Verata's Sacrifice has a 60 sec recharge, but recharges instantly if you have 3 or less minions.
Blood of the Master costs 5% + 2% for each minion and is still AOE healing. (Max 25% sacrifice w/ 10 minions)
So....
You're rewarded for having less minions and punished for maxing out.
Horrors and Fiends are now a liability more than a plus, and VHorrors and Minions are the way to go.
If you use 3 VHorrors and Verata's Sacrifice, you can keep them around for a while and the health regained isn't shabby (7-17 vs 100 armor).
Minions are 2 for 1 corpse still, so 5 corpses and you max out, but you can use them as a mini-zerg. Also, Soul Reaping ensures that when they die, you have the ability to replace them. With a cost of 15 for Minions, SR of 8 means you superceded the requirement with both die.
Horrors and Fiends are only useful if you use Blood of the Master instead of Verata's Sacrifice.Damage hasn't changed on them, but you still have all the negatives. Horrors still cost 15 and fiends 25. Fiends are almost worthless (from what I can see) b/c of the high cost, although the recharge is less than VHorrors.
Plausable reasons for the number nerf:Canthan Streets are so small, more than 10 would conjest the streets and make advancement difficult. Minion Factory Build Minion Farming
I'm still upset with how minions are reduced, but I've found some workable uses.
10 Minions Max
Verata's Sacrifice has a 60 sec recharge, but recharges instantly if you have 3 or less minions.
Blood of the Master costs 5% + 2% for each minion and is still AOE healing. (Max 25% sacrifice w/ 10 minions)
So....
You're rewarded for having less minions and punished for maxing out.
Horrors and Fiends are now a liability more than a plus, and VHorrors and Minions are the way to go.
If you use 3 VHorrors and Verata's Sacrifice, you can keep them around for a while and the health regained isn't shabby (7-17 vs 100 armor).
Minions are 2 for 1 corpse still, so 5 corpses and you max out, but you can use them as a mini-zerg. Also, Soul Reaping ensures that when they die, you have the ability to replace them. With a cost of 15 for Minions, SR of 8 means you superceded the requirement with both die.
Horrors and Fiends are only useful if you use Blood of the Master instead of Verata's Sacrifice.Damage hasn't changed on them, but you still have all the negatives. Horrors still cost 15 and fiends 25. Fiends are almost worthless (from what I can see) b/c of the high cost, although the recharge is less than VHorrors.
Plausable reasons for the number nerf:Canthan Streets are so small, more than 10 would conjest the streets and make advancement difficult. Minion Factory Build Minion Farming
I'm still upset with how minions are reduced, but I've found some workable uses.
skreet preacha
lol the high cost? err, what type of energy problems can u run into only trying to raise 10 Fiends? they are the damage dealers, so i only raise them now.... and just FYI, BoTM was never AOE, it was only "adjacent" before, and not sure if its AOE now, cuz it heals them suckers FAR off, i'll have to look to see if some are in my bubble or not next time.
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
No one can blame ANet because it's not their fault that people lack the creativity to get of their behinds and make a build.
Ok...that has to be the dumbest assement I have ever heard.
Nigel Strange
There is a reason for the whining: if the game developers find that they have made enough people unhappy, perhaps they will make a concession. Maybe they'll throw us a bone.
The real problem I see with nerfing is not the individual nerf, but the fact that it punishes innovation. Think of all the hours people spend working out a killer build, then the devs find out and they say "Ah hah! You thought you could outsmart us by using our own rules (against whom?) so now we're going to punish your intelligence by taking away your new powers!" Oh, and the rest of us lose our stuff too.
If you were running a school, would you praise children for being ahead of the curve or would you insist the school change its rules so that no kids are allowed to get ahead? Now it doesn't seem so much like empty whining, does it? What if there was a "No child gets ahead" plan?
The real problem I see with nerfing is not the individual nerf, but the fact that it punishes innovation. Think of all the hours people spend working out a killer build, then the devs find out and they say "Ah hah! You thought you could outsmart us by using our own rules (against whom?) so now we're going to punish your intelligence by taking away your new powers!" Oh, and the rest of us lose our stuff too.
If you were running a school, would you praise children for being ahead of the curve or would you insist the school change its rules so that no kids are allowed to get ahead? Now it doesn't seem so much like empty whining, does it? What if there was a "No child gets ahead" plan?
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
There are countless people i could easily go and prove wrong, which is not even funny. People who are crying about this nerf, realized the time when other professions got nerfed and they were passively buffed because they were left as the major damage dealers of entire game? Let me tell you why you are crying out loud right now. Just like once eles ( including my self ) cried. We were major damage dealers. An army of One. Someone said Oh Necros are so fragile, and this and that. You think someone can pass through so many minnions easily and kill a necro at first place? Being one man army is all we want. And when we are pushed towards being balanced, we cry. I feel buffed in long time as elemental. Even though i held a minnion master, and nearly found SS and other stuff a Joke for my usage in terms of efficiency and hard times, i stoped playing necros. They made me feel cheap. MM always had a better life than any of us. Every team wanted an MM in their build. Now, they will get other professions along with MM to support them, what is so bad about the game being balanced? Think for a moment, if you were on the oposite end of an Alliance battle with a person in oposite team, holding 40 minnions, what would u do ? go and kill him? or try to prove how cool he is? You would hate him for him being so over powered. At this point, an MM can't solo no more with minnions in missions, which seems much balanced to me. For the person who said MM are fragile, how do you solo if they are so fragile? I know exactly how it feels to be on the wrong side of nerf hammer, and guys, accept it. Just like we eles did, for possibly the longest time of this game. We were nerfed to the grounds, and barrage teams just rocked on the back of an MM to tank for them. Now, Tactics are required, and Playing MM is not that easy since you do not hold the entire mission/farming area in your palm.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.
Regardz
An Elementalist. GREAT POINT...not.
All ANET is doing is making this game lamer and lamer. At the rate they are going pretty soon it will turn into Sacred. Ohh boy that sounds like fun.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.
Regardz
An Elementalist. GREAT POINT...not.
All ANET is doing is making this game lamer and lamer. At the rate they are going pretty soon it will turn into Sacred. Ohh boy that sounds like fun.
Ka RaTae
I will say that I will miss the hordes, but the change to VS means...you can now keep a Flesh Golem at +10 Pips regen constantly. And since you have the Minion ICon...you will instanly know if he dies if there are sevral MM's controlling Golems. As far as Vamp Horrors go..my opinion on them is that they suck. Their recast is too long and they don't do enough damage versus a level 20 or higher to be considered any major source of healing, all though with 75% reduction from Dark Aura the heals they supply may be enough..not sure haven't tested it all.
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreet preacha
lol the high cost? err, what type of energy problems can u run into only trying to raise 10 Fiends? they are the damage dealers, so i only raise them now.... and just FYI, BoTM was never AOE, it was only "adjacent" before, and not sure if its AOE now, cuz it heals them suckers FAR off, i'll have to look to see if some are in my bubble or not next time.
I beleive it is like Heal Party now...Radar Range.
suiraCLAW
in my opinion: the whole death magic skill line needs a buff.
I mean: there are only 2 exploit skills worth it (fiend & horror), but for some reason ANET nerfed them. In other words: there are somewhat no usefull exploit skills at all anymore.
Some suggestions:
-give putroid 100% chance of hitting a foe at all (like this: spell, nearest corpse is exploited, target foe and all foe's adjacent to that foe take 30-120 dark dmg)
-change the limit of total minions into a limit of one kind of minion (giving you the ability to run like 7 fiends and 7 horrors), this would prevent meat walls, and insane dmg/health from fiends/vamp horrors.
-rework VS completely + give us a better limit (like: for 2-20 secs, all undead allies gain 1 health regen (max 10) for every 20 secs they were alive. same recharge etc)
BTW: about alliance battles, there are hundred and one ways to kill those minions without problems. (sig of creation, aoe dmg, ray of judgement, barrage, verata aura, traps, etc etc etc)
I mean: there are only 2 exploit skills worth it (fiend & horror), but for some reason ANET nerfed them. In other words: there are somewhat no usefull exploit skills at all anymore.
Some suggestions:
-give putroid 100% chance of hitting a foe at all (like this: spell, nearest corpse is exploited, target foe and all foe's adjacent to that foe take 30-120 dark dmg)
-change the limit of total minions into a limit of one kind of minion (giving you the ability to run like 7 fiends and 7 horrors), this would prevent meat walls, and insane dmg/health from fiends/vamp horrors.
-rework VS completely + give us a better limit (like: for 2-20 secs, all undead allies gain 1 health regen (max 10) for every 20 secs they were alive. same recharge etc)
BTW: about alliance battles, there are hundred and one ways to kill those minions without problems. (sig of creation, aoe dmg, ray of judgement, barrage, verata aura, traps, etc etc etc)
Sky Breaker
personal thought: If this overall nerf is ment to balance the game in terms of PvP as a whole, they should simply have built in limitations to the PvP parts of the game and leave the PvE alone, or if to discourage farming simply introduce more smiting/nuking creatures into maps overfarmed by MMs? (honestly i doubt the latter reason would be the case, what people dont realize is that Anet doesnt really mind farming in small amounts because putting more items into the game market lowers the overall cost people put out for them, and in the end it benefits new and old players alike, and to be completely honest there are too few places specifically farmed by MMs for this to be a viable reason for such brutality)
Cirian
Quote:
Originally Posted by suiraCLAW
in my opinion: the whole death magic skill line needs a buff.
Are we playing the same game? O.o I was having a great time as a death necro last night! I guess the problem is when you get a taste for being overpowered, it's hard to get used to just being powerful - we still rock imo 
I think the whole 30 fiends thing was... yeah, a bit too good =) In a few weeks there'll be new builds and new tactics, and as someone who has every Tyrian necro skill on his necro (and I switch around a lot and experiment with my skills), I'm really not fazed by the changes... actually I'm more concerned about getting my Grand Master Cartographer title! 
Peace
I think the whole 30 fiends thing was... yeah, a bit too good =) In a few weeks there'll be new builds and new tactics, and as someone who has every Tyrian necro skill on his necro (and I switch around a lot and experiment with my skills), I'm really not fazed by the changes... actually I'm more concerned about getting my Grand Master Cartographer title! Peace
Fred Kiwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoranger
It's like this....
Minions are already a pain to upkeep, but it was an art. Now, it's punishment for using them. Sure, Vamp Horrors are good for life transference, but how can you honestly say that it's a good thing to have MM's punished because other people didn't know how to dispose of minions?
It's just ANet catering to PvP'ers who whine b/c they're too dumb to learn about their opponents. exactly. hopefully if we wine enough they'll change it back.
I just want to say again that there are skills that OWN a mm - barrage/cyclone+JI - EOE - signet of creation (with the help of kiting) - various fire magic spells (with a tank) - veratas aura/gaze - probably more
Minions are already a pain to upkeep, but it was an art. Now, it's punishment for using them. Sure, Vamp Horrors are good for life transference, but how can you honestly say that it's a good thing to have MM's punished because other people didn't know how to dispose of minions?
It's just ANet catering to PvP'ers who whine b/c they're too dumb to learn about their opponents. exactly. hopefully if we wine enough they'll change it back.
I just want to say again that there are skills that OWN a mm - barrage/cyclone+JI - EOE - signet of creation (with the help of kiting) - various fire magic spells (with a tank) - veratas aura/gaze - probably more
Unchain
A well laid Edge of Extinction and a well placed Meteor Shower would annihlate an entire army, the MM was weak in PvP already. Honestly, I have never seen a Minion Factory group win or hold halls. It was just too easy to destroy.
kaldak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka RaTae
I will say that I will miss the hordes, but the change to VS means...you can now keep a Flesh Golem at +10 Pips regen constantly. And since you have the Minion ICon...you will instanly know if he dies if there are sevral MM's controlling Golems. As far as Vamp Horrors go..my opinion on them is that they suck. Their recast is too long and they don't do enough damage versus a level 20 or higher to be considered any major source of healing, all though with 75% reduction from Dark Aura the heals they supply may be enough..not sure haven't tested it all.
If you're just going death for a Flesh Golem, I'm pretty sure you'd be more effective as a Beast Master. Sure you dont get a lvl 26 ally, but there are lots of ways to boost a pet's damage and protection.
bobrath
Once again... perhaps this was because of the PvE minion masters and had little to do with the PvP aspect....
bobrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldak
If you're just going death for a Flesh Golem, I'm pretty sure you'd be more effective as a Beast Master. Sure you dont get a lvl 26 ally, but there are lots of ways to boost a pet's damage and protection.
Can you transfer conditions and hits to a pet?
Do you get energy when a pet dies?
Do all your skills stay available when your pet dies?
Do you get energy when a pet dies?
Do all your skills stay available when your pet dies?
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Kiwi
exactly. hopefully if we wine enough they'll change it back.
I just want to say again that there are skills that OWN a mm - barrage/cyclone+JI - EOE - signet of creation (with the help of kiting) - various fire magic spells (with a tank) - veratas aura/gaze - probably more You never see Minions in true PVP...Halls or GVG. So this fix doesn't mess with them...it's major effect is towards PvE fun. PVE Tombs and FOW/UW.
Correction...you sometimes see MM groups in Tombs for about 30 secs. Till you spike the MM's or put down a Max Edge. GG MM Team.
I just want to say again that there are skills that OWN a mm - barrage/cyclone+JI - EOE - signet of creation (with the help of kiting) - various fire magic spells (with a tank) - veratas aura/gaze - probably more You never see Minions in true PVP...Halls or GVG. So this fix doesn't mess with them...it's major effect is towards PvE fun. PVE Tombs and FOW/UW.
Correction...you sometimes see MM groups in Tombs for about 30 secs. Till you spike the MM's or put down a Max Edge. GG MM Team.
Darkpower Alchemist
You guys are funny. MMs have been overpowered, and in recent,overused. Hence,the nerf axe falls. Yet,the MM isn't going the route of the Elemantalist yet.
Verata's Sacrifice does blow,and I am against that particular aspect of the nerf.However,the rest of it makes since for a few reasons. Logically speaking,
how would a MM maintain an army of more than ten minions without being pressed bodily to do so?Heal Area,BoTM,V-Sacrifice(Pre nerf), and this same 10 minion army can go very far.
The crying is for the people who can't deal with change. I understand that human beings don't welcome drastic changes,so this is expected.However,I say"GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES!" This isn't the end of the world. I was gonna used Verata's Aura and take your minions anyway,so think of it as less for me to use against you poor saps
. Joking,but seriously, It's not the end of the world.
IWAY,once again,can't be nerfed in good conscience because its not the skill that is overpowered,but the group that is using it. The skill, "I Will Avenge You!",is not overpowered in a solo situation,so it will never get nerfed IMO.
The limits placed on the MM build,however,went unchecked,and with the new skills and the ramifications of a 12 Vs 12 battle,they would be too powerful if left that way. Imagine an IWAY team with all those pets,dead on the floor, the warriors scream that hated scream,and the MMs raising those dead bodies into minions at the same time.You can hardly stomach IWAY teams now,so how would you handle that? Even Verata's Aura cant save you fast enough from that.Remember,V-Aura takes a health sacrifice of 33%,so that puts that anti MM skill in jeopardy during use. Barrage is only hitting the wall of flesh,slow but effective,but again,only to be mowed down by that same IWAY team you all hate so much.I think I've said enough to give you the picture.
Verata's Sacrifice does blow,and I am against that particular aspect of the nerf.However,the rest of it makes since for a few reasons. Logically speaking,
how would a MM maintain an army of more than ten minions without being pressed bodily to do so?Heal Area,BoTM,V-Sacrifice(Pre nerf), and this same 10 minion army can go very far.
The crying is for the people who can't deal with change. I understand that human beings don't welcome drastic changes,so this is expected.However,I say"GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES!" This isn't the end of the world. I was gonna used Verata's Aura and take your minions anyway,so think of it as less for me to use against you poor saps
. Joking,but seriously, It's not the end of the world.IWAY,once again,can't be nerfed in good conscience because its not the skill that is overpowered,but the group that is using it. The skill, "I Will Avenge You!",is not overpowered in a solo situation,so it will never get nerfed IMO.
The limits placed on the MM build,however,went unchecked,and with the new skills and the ramifications of a 12 Vs 12 battle,they would be too powerful if left that way. Imagine an IWAY team with all those pets,dead on the floor, the warriors scream that hated scream,and the MMs raising those dead bodies into minions at the same time.You can hardly stomach IWAY teams now,so how would you handle that? Even Verata's Aura cant save you fast enough from that.Remember,V-Aura takes a health sacrifice of 33%,so that puts that anti MM skill in jeopardy during use. Barrage is only hitting the wall of flesh,slow but effective,but again,only to be mowed down by that same IWAY team you all hate so much.I think I've said enough to give you the picture.
Former Ruling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka RaTae
You never see Minions in true PVP...Halls or GVG. So this fix doesn't mess with them...it's major effect is towards PvE fun. PVE Tombs and FOW/UW.
Correction...you sometimes see MM groups in Tombs for about 30 secs. Till you spike the MM's or put down a Max Edge. GG MM Team. Actually Bunny Smite teams in GvG always run a part-MM, atleast that I've seen.
and there are higher and higher ranked teams swithing to Bunny Smite (faced a guild that was in the low 100s in rank that used it).
Correction...you sometimes see MM groups in Tombs for about 30 secs. Till you spike the MM's or put down a Max Edge. GG MM Team. Actually Bunny Smite teams in GvG always run a part-MM, atleast that I've seen.
and there are higher and higher ranked teams swithing to Bunny Smite (faced a guild that was in the low 100s in rank that used it).
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
There are countless people i could easily go and prove wrong, which is not even funny. People who are crying about this nerf, realized the time when other professions got nerfed and they were passively buffed because they were left as the major damage dealers of entire game? Let me tell you why you are crying out loud right now. Just like once eles ( including my self ) cried. We were major damage dealers. An army of One. Someone said Oh Necros are so fragile, and this and that. You think someone can pass through so many minnions easily and kill a necro at first place? Being one man army is all we want. And when we are pushed towards being balanced, we cry. I feel buffed in long time as elemental. Even though i held a minnion master, and nearly found SS and other stuff a Joke for my usage in terms of efficiency and hard times, i stoped playing necros. They made me feel cheap. MM always had a better life than any of us. Every team wanted an MM in their build. Now, they will get other professions along with MM to support them, what is so bad about the game being balanced? Think for a moment, if you were on the oposite end of an Alliance battle with a person in oposite team, holding 40 minnions, what would u do ? go and kill him? or try to prove how cool he is? You would hate him for him being so over powered. At this point, an MM can't solo no more with minnions in missions, which seems much balanced to me. For the person who said MM are fragile, how do you solo if they are so fragile? I know exactly how it feels to be on the wrong side of nerf hammer, and guys, accept it. Just like we eles did, for possibly the longest time of this game. We were nerfed to the grounds, and barrage teams just rocked on the back of an MM to tank for them. Now, Tactics are required, and Playing MM is not that easy since you do not hold the entire mission/farming area in your palm.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.
Regardz
An Elementalist. Geez, I never went around showing off or thinking I was superior. I play mostly by myself or with a few close friends. I just had a lot of fun raising huge armies (and my team mates had fun with me doing it as well, by all accounts). I'm wondering if it's still going to be as much fun.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.
Regardz
An Elementalist. Geez, I never went around showing off or thinking I was superior. I play mostly by myself or with a few close friends. I just had a lot of fun raising huge armies (and my team mates had fun with me doing it as well, by all accounts). I'm wondering if it's still going to be as much fun.
bobrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
Even Verata's Aura cant save you fast enough from that.Remember,V-Aura takes a health sacrifice of 33%,so that puts that anti MM skill in jeopardy during use.
The power of VAura is that it removes control of the summons from the minion master. So what if the VAura caster dies. Both teams have to deal with the aggro minions - neither team gets a true benefit from it. Even if the original master casts VAura to reclaim... the control expires with VAura. You've now taken permanent control and swapped it to an expiring (or strippable) enchantment. VAura can and will save you from MM armies.
But again, it makes more sense that MMs were nerfed due to the PvE overpower and not the PvP uses.
But again, it makes more sense that MMs were nerfed due to the PvE overpower and not the PvP uses.
Yukito Kunisaki
I'm a Minion Bomber...
Most likely, my build would still rotate around using Taste of Death Nova combos...
Of all the MM's I've seen, there's only one other MM who does what I do. Forgot her name, we worked well together though our teammates had to actually work aside from stand there and let minion butlers do all the work...
But the end result? Enemies sure died a lot faster when the minions went POP...
I suppose, thanks to my unique MM play style, I can just point and laugh at all of you whiners... My minions STILL are effective... 
Besides, death breeds more death if you do it right. Keeping animates alive doesn't make you a 'master' of death. What's neat is that it also serves as a failsafe. Need hp or energy, eat a minion, BOOM...
The EoE counter would be VERY hilarious to see with a full army of minions going pop all covered with Death Novas...
Most likely, my build would still rotate around using Taste of Death Nova combos...
Of all the MM's I've seen, there's only one other MM who does what I do. Forgot her name, we worked well together though our teammates had to actually work aside from stand there and let minion butlers do all the work...
But the end result? Enemies sure died a lot faster when the minions went POP...
I suppose, thanks to my unique MM play style, I can just point and laugh at all of you whiners... My minions STILL are effective...
Besides, death breeds more death if you do it right. Keeping animates alive doesn't make you a 'master' of death. What's neat is that it also serves as a failsafe. Need hp or energy, eat a minion, BOOM...
The EoE counter would be VERY hilarious to see with a full army of minions going pop all covered with Death Novas...
flawless650
I hope that this nerf would mean that A.Net is trying to make minion master a viable build for PvP, without the need to amass a huge army. I wouldn't mind seeing corpses being exploited more than once after they balance out the other death skills such as putrid and wells.
Reve2uk
i hate this, whats the point in a MM with 10 minons, in the later lvls/SF in PvE they will die in like one/two hits, so u need loads to maintain them and without a minon a MM is screwd...... just seems like they have got rid of the true minon master........... wish they would just get rid of the vampric horrors, if that is the reason, cos tbh...... MF in HA is just a build to play for fun and in 12v12 u can counter it easly with nearly any profession, jsut bringa a necro with wells or putrid or cunsome corpes... and a warroir with high defence didn't realy have to worry about them any way......
was fun in 12v12 with a masive army running at u being a W/N with Vetras aura/CC........... only differcne now is that the MM will have less chance
was fun in 12v12 with a masive army running at u being a W/N with Vetras aura/CC........... only differcne now is that the MM will have less chance
Xpl0iter
isin't that the whole freakin point dude? less chance for MM means more chance for others to balance this out. How many builds which are considered good, have u seen without MM? If mm is such a viable part of this game, but there has to be a limit to its usage. Every other kid i see is standing N/Mo telling me how his MM do this and that. What you need to realize is that it was cause of MM that mesmers and eles stoped being taken to sf, and even Tombs.
Barrage pet group like i said before, stood at the back of a minnion mastered and created chaos. Felt quite pathetic.
Yeh, it was fun when you could just swamp through 12 people with your 30 minnions like they were nothing compared to you, and that exactly was the point. The ONE man army as i call it, had to be tonned down a bit. You Being too overpowered is not a great thing for others, unless they are by your side? Beats me if that is what you all aree trying to prove at this point. One of the MM said clearly here that he is still effective with MM after the CAP of minnions. Seems like he is using a custom made build, and not a cookie cutter which most of the MMs now adays do. Honestly, what was the difference between an OLD timer ele, with couple of skills being casted at foes who wont budge, to an MM who just creates minnions, and heal them. Infact, raising more, seems a better option since they just used to kill so fast, ain't that true MMs?
Regardz
An Elementalist.
Barrage pet group like i said before, stood at the back of a minnion mastered and created chaos. Felt quite pathetic.
Yeh, it was fun when you could just swamp through 12 people with your 30 minnions like they were nothing compared to you, and that exactly was the point. The ONE man army as i call it, had to be tonned down a bit. You Being too overpowered is not a great thing for others, unless they are by your side? Beats me if that is what you all aree trying to prove at this point. One of the MM said clearly here that he is still effective with MM after the CAP of minnions. Seems like he is using a custom made build, and not a cookie cutter which most of the MMs now adays do. Honestly, what was the difference between an OLD timer ele, with couple of skills being casted at foes who wont budge, to an MM who just creates minnions, and heal them. Infact, raising more, seems a better option since they just used to kill so fast, ain't that true MMs?
Regardz
An Elementalist.
Dr. Fire
Come on people, this is nothing new. Any time a build has become to dominant it has been nerfed. My first character back in the GW beta weekend days was a Necro. I can remember in the early days of the game being kicked from group after group because no one respected the abilities of the Necro. Get in a group, Ele showed up, poof, kicked from the group. Now as time goes on we find ways to make the Necro powerful, and now groups can't live without them. As I was studying the new skills that were coming out with Factions my mouth was watering at the powers the Necro would have. Ahh, alas, Arena.net also knew this and took action to keep things balanced. Nothing new. My prediction of A-net's next nerf victim-------------------------RANGER------------wait and see.
Dev121
I havent read all posts so sorry if this has been said
IT ISNT nerfed -> just harder to play , so many ppl could make a mm and play the game easy now you have to try to keep you minions alive and have 10 up at all time!!
IT ISNT nerfed -> just harder to play , so many ppl could make a mm and play the game easy now you have to try to keep you minions alive and have 10 up at all time!!
Ka RaTae
I love how any thing popular that works well is called cookie cuter, and you are lame for using it. Limited skills sets here people. Limited even more by the fact that more then half the skills are crap in PvP, and the others are Crap for PvE.
And lets be honest here...the blowing up minions is not a unique idea. Most people don't do it becuase this games targeting system SUCKS so badly. Since they have cut the minions down so much...the least the could do is put the minions in the party window now so that you actually could enchat them....ohh but that will never happen because actually being able to easily click on them would be OVERPOWERED. Then death nova would be getting the call for the NERF bat I guess. I'm sorry, but it just feels like the devs are starting to make changes just for the sake of change. We play the game...it was designed for us. So maybe they should actually take into account what people want to play. Or they can take the route of it's my game and I don't want to see it played in that manner and wacth their cash cow die.
And lets be honest here...the blowing up minions is not a unique idea. Most people don't do it becuase this games targeting system SUCKS so badly. Since they have cut the minions down so much...the least the could do is put the minions in the party window now so that you actually could enchat them....ohh but that will never happen because actually being able to easily click on them would be OVERPOWERED. Then death nova would be getting the call for the NERF bat I guess. I'm sorry, but it just feels like the devs are starting to make changes just for the sake of change. We play the game...it was designed for us. So maybe they should actually take into account what people want to play. Or they can take the route of it's my game and I don't want to see it played in that manner and wacth their cash cow die.
Ka RaTae
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeVaNeY121
I havent read all posts so sorry if this has been said
IT ISNT nerfed -> just harder to play , so many ppl could make a mm and play the game easy now you have to try to keep you minions alive and have 10 up at all time!! I think it is actually eaiser to keep them alive now thanks to BoTM changes. You may start to see some funky Golem build for PvP where say your team controls 4 or 5 golems. Just think how much chaos..5 golems...5 Necros..3 Monks could cause. The Necs would have 75% DR and never have a condition. The Golems would be at +10 pips health regen constantly, and also get over 120 healing anywhere on the board if needed. No one would be prepared for that at first and it could role. Hell those golems hit for up to 130hp on 60 armor targets.
IT ISNT nerfed -> just harder to play , so many ppl could make a mm and play the game easy now you have to try to keep you minions alive and have 10 up at all time!! I think it is actually eaiser to keep them alive now thanks to BoTM changes. You may start to see some funky Golem build for PvP where say your team controls 4 or 5 golems. Just think how much chaos..5 golems...5 Necros..3 Monks could cause. The Necs would have 75% DR and never have a condition. The Golems would be at +10 pips health regen constantly, and also get over 120 healing anywhere on the board if needed. No one would be prepared for that at first and it could role. Hell those golems hit for up to 130hp on 60 armor targets.
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
Barrage pet group like i said before, stood at the back of a minnion mastered and created chaos. Felt quite pathetic.
Yeh, it was fun when you could just swamp through 12 people with your 30 minnions like they were nothing compared to you, and that exactly was the point. The ONE man army as i call it, had to be tonned down a bit. You Being too overpowered is not a great thing for others, unless they are by your side? Beats me if that is what you all aree trying to prove at this point. One of the MM said clearly here that he is still effective with MM after the CAP of minnions. Seems like he is using a custom made build, and not a cookie cutter which most of the MMs now adays do. Honestly, what was the difference between an OLD timer ele, with couple of skills being casted at foes who wont budge, to an MM who just creates minnions, and heal them. Infact, raising more, seems a better option since they just used to kill so fast, ain't that true MMs?
Regardz
An Elementalist.
Regards,
A NECRO
Quote:
For a profession which laughed upon other profession when the other profession got nerfed, shouldn't expect any decency in return. Have you ever been in shoes of those people who join a group, and others leave just because they consider them worthless in their farming build compared to a necro? What i have said is this. We have endured, and still going through a nerf, and you guys have just hit the very first one in long long time. I suggest you start working with a balanced power, and stop crying over the nerf. Just like suggested to us, which we DID work for. In easy words, no one realizes what they are doing to other professions as long as they are treated like the most important profession of the game in terms of damage dealing. Just because you have been tonned down to another professions class to some extent, you end up telling me that i am telling you to *endure the pain that we have suffered?* Quite a wrong assumption.|
Come on people, this is nothing new. Any time a build has become to dominant it has been nerfed. My first character back in the GW beta weekend days was a Necro. I can remember in the early days of the game being kicked from group after group because no one respected the abilities of the Necro. Get in a group, Ele showed up, poof, kicked from the group. Now as time goes on we find ways to make the Necro powerful, and now groups can't live without them. As I was studying the new skills that were coming out with Factions my mouth was watering at the powers the Necro would have. Ahh, alas, Arena.net also knew this and took action to keep things balanced. Nothing new. My prediction of A-net's next nerf victim-------------------------RANGER------------wait and see.
I made a similar reference before but no one decided to take the bait. This is soooo true in EVERY game... not only Guild Wars. Something gets dominant it gets nerfed a bit to make the gameplay balanced. Plain a simple. It happens in Warcraft it happens in Magic (for those old school players), it happens in EVERY SINGLE GAME because if not it would not cause balance correctly. What I love about Guild Wars is that it is really well balanced. And its not like there isnt options for Necros. MM is still very viable. Please cry me a river that you cannot go with 40 minions now and solo yourself to where ever you want and just stay in the background to collect items. MM now is more balanced as it should be. All the classes are pretty balanced out.... I hope it stays this way. ANet does a great job. You guys need to stop crying about your build being nerfed because you can't solo every part of the game anymore and realize what they are trying to accomplish. And that is well rounded game play where every class is welcomed and has a place.
byteme!
The "nerfing of MM's HAD TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT. With the release of factions you have 2 new skills. One that raises a potential lvl 28 golem and another skill that raises minions that heal you whenever they deal dmg. If you had 20-30 minions fighting and healing you that would be what we call, "OVER POWERED". You would never die. Your army would be ridiculously strong. I'm surprised no one ever mentioned this point. 10 minion's is a very nice number in my opinion considering the new skills provided in Factions.
Serra Knightfang
The one thing I don't understand is why MMs were nerfed and 55s weren't. 55 builds see MUCH more use than MMs did and they didn't even get touched.
Nigel Strange
Xploiter, by the quote quoted above by Ka RaTae, reminds me of people who enjoy watching others suffer because they have suffered. It reminds me of people alcoholics who jump with evil glee when they see the smokers getting more taxes because they can say to them "Ha! We've been taxed since th 30's so get used to it!" Then, both groups can gang up on the motorcycle helmet law flauters or the seatbelt outlaws and say: "You deserve more suffering because of what I've had to endure."
No, my friends, this is not the way. We must stick together and with one uholy shout cause the walls of classism to be stricken assunder. We all want to enjoy the game, and nobody wants to be slapped down because they had managed to find a little niche of success in something. I was an elementalist before I became a necro, so I've been nerfed twice. What's next? As we go forth bravely into new professions that have not yet been nerfed, must we constantly watch the skies for a sign that an evil god is waiting to smite us once again? Must we shrink in horror every time we see the message that "A new build is available, log out and come back in depowered?" No. Unite! It's time to let the gods know that we don't care if we have their favor or not. It's time to let them start thinking about whether they have OUR favor. JimmyDean
First of all, i feel that you guys are reallly overreacting. You have to admit that in pve a MM could easily kill just about anything you came across in seconds. MMs were incredibly powerful. The minions were also easy to keep alive, despite them losing health over time. So, what weve lost is the ability to make very large armies, and some of our healing ability. That kinda sucks. We did gain some very ncie stuff, however. Flesh golem is a very nice spell, as are the vampiric horrors. Instead of thinking how the old build will no longer steamroll everything in pve, think about how you can make a new build involving all of these awesome skills and items thayve made avaliable to you. Instead of going for the fotm cookie cutter giant army aproach, why not go for 3 minions, which seems ideal. You get a bonus for having 3 minions from the new armor, veratas recharges isntantly when you only have 3, and you have a very powerful high level minion which pretty much lasts forever. You could throw blood magic into the mix for life taps and DoTs, while your flesh golem slaughters stuff and your vamp horrors keep you alive. I also feel that this "nerf" is actually beneficial for death necros in pvp. Due to a small supply of corpses, you cant get a huge army rolling. Flesh golem and vampiric horrors really give you alot of bang for your corpse. Theres lots of stuff you can do, you guys just refuse to see past the nerf. Just because you cant solo missions now doesnt mean necros suck.
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Strange
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If my english sucked, since i am writing on a short notice, let me know, i will redo the post.
Quote:
Being honest, you also need to look at the other side of this nerf. Eles, which were nearly thrown out of every PVE farming build, were revived to some extent with this CAP, since it passivly buffed them.
I smell balance, what about you my friend?
Quote:
First of all, i feel that you guys are reallly overreacting. You have to admit that in pve a MM could easily kill just about anything you came across in seconds. MMs were incredibly powerful. The minions were also easy to keep alive, despite them losing health over time. So, what weve lost is the ability to make very large armies, and some of our healing ability. That kinda sucks. ........ Theres lots of stuff you can do, you guys just refuse to see past the nerf. Just because you cant solo missions now doesnt mean necros suck.
I actualy agree with him. Soloing areas with minnions, and enjoying most resourceful farming areas was a cheese cake for MMs on their own. Well, lets face it, MMs need to use more than 4 skills now, which i will say, most MMs use, and leave other 4 skills for no usage.
See what you could comeup with to fill those 4 slots of skills with to support your minnions now. You may find something worthwhile.
See what you could comeup with to fill those 4 slots of skills with to support your minnions now. You may find something worthwhile.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Serra Knightfang
The one thing I don't understand is why MMs were nerfed and 55s weren't. 55 builds see MUCH more use than MMs did and they didn't even get touched.
Who knows ANET might nerf 55s farming through the addition of mesmers and necros for strip enchantment purposes? You do not neccessarily need to nerf skills in order to nerf a farming build, specially when it is based on enchantments.
Regardz An Elementalist.
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
First of all, i feel that you guys are reallly overreacting. You have to admit that in pve a MM could easily kill just about anything you came across in seconds. MMs were incredibly powerful. The minions were also easy to keep alive, despite them losing health over time. So, what weve lost is the ability to make very large armies, and some of our healing ability. That kinda sucks. We did gain some very ncie stuff, however. Flesh golem is a very nice spell, as are the vampiric horrors. Instead of thinking how the old build will no longer steamroll everything in pve, think about how you can make a new build involving all of these awesome skills and items thayve made avaliable to you. Instead of going for the fotm cookie cutter giant army aproach, why not go for 3 minions, which seems ideal. You get a bonus for having 3 minions from the new armor, veratas recharges isntantly when you only have 3, and you have a very powerful high level minion which pretty much lasts forever. You could throw blood magic into the mix for life taps and DoTs, while your flesh golem slaughters stuff and your vamp horrors keep you alive. I also feel that this "nerf" is actually beneficial for death necros in pvp. Due to a small supply of corpses, you cant get a huge army rolling. Flesh golem and vampiric horrors really give you alot of bang for your corpse. Theres lots of stuff you can do, you guys just refuse to see past the nerf. Just because you cant solo missions now doesnt mean necros suck.
This is a really good point. I never considered the really big benefits this so called "nurf" had for PVP. You are absolutely right. This actually even makes MM a viable build in PVP. And before I have to say it really was not. I HAVE seen MM's in PVP dont get me wrong, but 90% of necros were Order/SS/Tainted. Now with this, they could have very strong creatures, only keep a few around (because there isn't many corpses) and have a powerhouse instead of a bunch of little things that'll get slaughtered.
Quality is better than Quantity. |