12 vs 12 ruined..

While playing in RP, I got to the point where I needed Kurzick faction; So I decided to make a PvP character and do some 12 vs 12. I remembered it was rather simple and a great time in FPE.

After only playing 1 match in about an hour I realized something.

1. Its incredibly hard to get into a party when compared to FPE.
2. There are much more Kurzicks then Luxons.
3. There is no communication in game.

My suggestion is to revert to the FPE style.

1. List everyone on your faction.
2. Be able to join as a single member.

I totally agree with you, and the monks must have it kinda hard when they cannot see everyone in the party window. Not every joining party has a monk.

/Signed... and signed again.

It's ridiculous that we're expected to play as 3 completely, totally separate groups. Often times, and for the majority of nearly every match, one central control point will host a battle involving most or all of both teams. It's not much of an "alliance" when the monks can hardly do anything for their allies in these situations.

/rant

/signed

The whole point ot the seperate groups is to probably deal with Heal party/Dark fury/Etc spam.

Also, as long as you have a well rounded guild group of 4 people you can usually kickass.

and as for the Luxon/Kurzick imbalances, you have to realize is that not everyone played FPE and chose a faction,also the fact that the chance to actually choose a faction is incredibly far down the road story wise.

/signed

lol it's ridicoulos if you can't have all 12 in one party window, it's like being a minion master and heal 10 minions with just orison of healing...=( anet you dissappointed me on this one

i only came back to GW for 12v12 now im gonna reconsider

i liked the complete randomness (echoing SS in a mass brawl was fun)

i say bring back the original version

Those don't work well.

The game is on a time limit based on points by each faction. You will get more points by taking alters not killing. That has to do with spliting and taking alters over with small man groups.

During the FPE I had 2 emos in my party of 4 spamming heal party the entire game. We still lost.

to me 12v12 wasnt about winning i couldnt care less who won it was about enjoying the mass brawl of 24 random ppl running around like headless chickens

there was no "godly" spike build
no "gay" iway

as a former hardcore PvE trader i actually enjoyed PvP for once now they Fxcked it up

/Signed

I also hate how you need a full party for TA. But I always thought flexibility is key in success. Maybe A.Net thinks differently. Maybe they want 12v12 to be a cross between TA and Halls. So you have a team of 4 which can either be dedicated or not dedicated, both which screw over the game. Then you combine with 2 more teams in a non-encouraging way of doing alliance battles. People can complain about dark fury/heal party/etc, but let's face it folks, do we really want EVERY SINGLE mode of the game to be based on the SAME skills? When CTF came out in the beginning, I thought that was awesome. Finally, a mode that encouraged different use of skills, so you can make silly "runner" builds and "snaring" builds. What happened? Anet took it off due to "imbalances"....(feel free to tell me why the "real" reason Anet took out CTF map, because I don't see any)

Thing is, in GvG right now as we speak, there are only a certain portion of skills that are usable. When's the last time we even saw a remotely a use for belly smash or some other skill that has been long shelfed by the pvp community? I'm sorry, any one who claims belly smash owns in halls/ta/ra/gvg is not competitive enough. There are skills that simply don't fit. Biggest example? That stupid cry that makes NEUTRAL pets attack your target. YAY a skill that has ZERO use in PvP. So with those skills in mind, we can clearly see that A.net either 1. Too lazy to make every skill useful in a "gvg" format, or 2. Intended to make circumstances that would lead to people using the skill. Either way, A.net looks really bad.

As far as I'm concerned, 12v12 was exactly what FPE 12v12 should've been. The CHOICE of 1-4 man parties. I didn't like picking pugs period. I was the type that if I had to TA with a buddy or two, we'd go with that many and let fate decide. If the pug failed, boot and go again. 12v12 is even more forgiving because it'll destroy the group afterwards and you most likely won't be in the same groups with half the other players since in FPE it was a huge success. I mean come on, even WoW has a better pvp system then Anet right now as far as TA/12s vs BGs go. At least they let you group up with as many as you want.

/signed

The only reason i wanted factions was because 12v12 in FPE was so fun.. Seeing how shit it's become, meh, i'll get factions later.

Zero use in PvP? I think you mean Zero use, period! That skill is pathetic, how exactly is a lvl5 Black Bear going to injure a lvl22 Ice Imp in Southern Shiverpeaks?

How does that system now work in Factions? I couldn't be bothered to get it. Glad i didn't now too since Anet are doing a brilliant job at RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing everything fun about this game up.

FPE 12v12 = Thumbs Up and thee gr8est

12v12 now = limited, no chaos and hard to get groups.

/signed

Was a lot more fun during the PvE then now. Very little communication and coordination between teams now. Being forced to join as a group of four doesn't annoy me as much. I just wanna have the huge list that had all 12 of the members so you could easily communicate strategies with them.

Do we really need a 12-man random arenas???

...twicky_kid has the right idea. Try playing as a squad of 4 capturing the map before you complain that it's unplayable. I'll even offer some advice - bring a monk, a warrior with "Charge!" to help your team get around quicker, and two other professions of your choice.

EDIT: I agree that you should be able to communicate with all 12 teammates, however.

I think the freedom is what made the 12 vs 12 fun for me... You weren't bound to a group.. It was just you and an enemy team of 12 players. You could do what ever you wanted.

If I want to play in an organized group I do TA or GvG.

/Signed

I liked being able to go totally random OR with 4 people. FPE 12v12 was a blast, I want it back!

/Signed ... twice for my 2 accounts.

If you ask me, I'd say it's false advertising! They hook us on one thing and give us another. I feel like I just got sold a used car with no engine in it cuz I forgot to look under the hood!

I guess I'm the biggest sucker of all. I have always been totally anti-pvp until the FPE. I LOOOOOOOOOOVED the 12 vs 12!! Everyone in my rather large PvE based guild loved it. It was a huge selling point for influencing me to buy Factions. So huge... I bought 6 copies!! Yes, 6!!! Including 2 Collector's Editions which I don't have.

Why did I buy 6? 2 For myself (1 SE & 1 CE), 2 for my fiance' (1 CE & 1 SE), and 2 extra for guildies who I knew couldn't afford it but I just couldn't stand the thought of playing Factions and 12 vs 12 without.

But it get's worse... I also bought 3 Prima Guides (all the store had) to give away as contest prizes in my guild. I'm a guild leader and love all my guildies.

Wait, I'm not done yet... I also bought 10, count them **********10, preorder kits from amazon.com just for guildies who were not preordering so we could all play the head start together. Yes, you could buy just the preorder from Amazon.

So... all in all, I just spent about $500 on a game I don't even like now.

Thanks alot Anet! It just keeps getting better. Now I wish it was pay to play. At least then I could cancel my subscriptions!

P.S. At least in the FPE you could yell out to the WHOLE team of 12 when you were losing a control point. Why don't the just nerf the fact that we have legs and make us all run around on nubs.

Omg...Double Sidedness FTW!

Everyone is obviosuly saying they LOVED the preview 12v12, but think back to when it was actually happening.

All you EVER heard 24 hours a day the entire weekend was "CHANGE 12v12!!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!!!!!!!oneone!@!!!@!" because of leavers,and such as that.

Anet listens, and lessens the problem by having people make competent groups, now the same people that were crying for it to change relize the first version of it was more fun...

/signed

make all 3 squads appear in the party window:
want to prevent hp for 12 people? (12x84 health = 1004hp healed with 15e ^^) no problem - make the other 2 squads show up under "allies" instead of the same party... team chat will work across all 3 squads this way, skills that target a whole party are just working on your own squad -- but you could at least see who needs the heal/prot and who doesn't...

alliance battle is supposed to be about 3 squads taking capturing parts of the map with tactics - not a chaotic battle royal.
does the 8on8 RA still exist? would be a good place for all the chaos-lovers (sorry for the pun, you know i love you)
imo the 12on12 is fine except the messed up party window / communication: but these things really destroy alliance battles...
/endsuggestiverant

You never understood the skill. It gives +20 armor to all animals. Including your lvl 20 pet with 80 base AL.

Yeah, 0 use period. Learn the fscking mechanics before you spout idiocies.

So sorry, sir, but that's a little like saying that we all complained that the bed was too hard. So they gave us a padding of cotton candy to sleep on.

There were problems with the FPE version, yes, leavers and the stupidity of Aegis and Heal Party (XD I was a prot monk. Aegis ftw). But as Uzul said... why not make all 3 squads appear in the party window, but seperate the other 8 into the Allies section so they don't reap the benefits of Heal Party and Aegis? As a monk, I can tell you that it was HECK trying to be helpful outside your own squad.

There are other solutions; and if this is how they meant it to be in the first place, then why would they have us continue to suffer? Assume for a moment that they meant to have the other 8 players as allies... why would they let people who have the pre-order experience the flawed version, get fed up with it, and possibly not even buy Guild Wars: Factions. Take Huntermaster, who said, "The only reason i wanted factions was because 12v12 in FPE was so fun.. Seeing how shit it's become, meh, i'll get factions later." I know plenty of people like this; and people like xBEASTx who were hardcore PvE players, but fell in love with Alliance Battles. Would they really risk chasing off all the potential buyers, by letting us get nothing but crap?

And in EITHER case--whether they meant it to be better and this is a flawed version, or this is really the change they wanted--they've done a horrible job of talking to us about these changes as they progressed. I think that's the worst part of it all--we were all expecting one thing, and then got another, and not a word from Gaile and the ANet team about why the change occured.

EDIT: Redly love you beat me to the punch, how dare you!

This was my idea on the whole thing.... (posted likely in the wrong forum >_>) http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3021442

Anyways I never once complained about how the 12v12 was and I dont know anyone who did - we only bitched about quitters - the same as we would for any mission where someone up and quits just cause they think the chips are down!

-and at least just once, you come across a team so great it makes your head spin - we were behind and down by over 200pnts and the other team at 400 and made a dramatic turn around to win it by 3pts! (one of the members on the team was stuck loading through 90% of the battle! - he came to his vicory party just in time). We FINALLY learned to communicate with that big list and we pulled together to win it! But that cannot be done now... It's near impossible... you see six people leave and unless they are in your immediate party you just dont know... so in the end ya wonder why ya couldn't find your team... It didn't solve the leaver problem it just made it hard for others to be able to play when they arent the leaver in their group!


Another thing! Why is it so one sided, do they not have the same available skills that the other team has? Cripes you all would complain about ANYTHING! -_- You would think that monks using aegis in 12v12 was some sort of exploit!

It was a skill given to monks to assist their PARTY MEMBERS... If you think it's unfair bring your own prot monk and stop complaining! I was in groups that would win whether they had a monk or not so thats just some lame excuse!

...They changed Alliance battles?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Erm. Seriously, I loved how alliance battles were on the FPE...if they changed that...well...i'd want them to make a freakin' "doesn't count towards things" if necessary copy of the FPE's Alliance Battles. I loved them.

/signed

DEFINITELY AGREED!!!!

Although i think a seperate chat tab specifically would work better.

Squad Chat (group of 4)

Team Chat (3 groups of 4)

/signed

/signed

I agree on the 8 other party members being put on the Allied section.
I'm actually glad I was planning on getting Factions next week because of my Finals. Hopefully, this'll be fixed next week and I'll make believe none of this ever happened.

Indeed!

Forcing people to make a team helps reduce the number of leavers.

It is quite funny how this community will be two-faced about everything and everything.

As for there being too many Kurzicks..the game has been out for 2/3 days. People will do what they did in the FPE and join the same side. Give it a week, the balance will be there.

played it, it seemed like an utter copy of the shite horror that is pvp in wow, got bored, left

*cough* did i hear Call of Protection? Much more useful in quite a few situations.

Forcing people to make teams won't help anyone. That way it just changes from a 12vs12 RA to a 12vs12 TA. If your gonna leave you'll do it either way. How the hell am i gonna get my Mesmer into thing? No-one takes them at the best of times, never mind when they have a group of 4 to pick.

/signed

12vs12 should be something like throwing a group of people into the front with no special way to get ready(xcept setting skills, attributes and others like those), like in real wars.

/signed

As someone on the fence about getting Chapter 2 or not, realizing that 12vs12 is now really just a series of 4vs4 certainly makes me not want to buy Chapter 2. If I wanted 4vs4, I'd do random/team arenas in Chapter 1!

Make 12vs12 actually be 12vs12.

/signed

/signed

The FPE way was far more fun.
Hope they change it.

/signed
bring back the old gameplay
i wanna enter solo, dont restrict

this was the only thing i was looking forward to

/signed

I made a super build for 12v12.

12 healing
10 Soul Reaping
Something prot.


Heal Party+Aegis were the only 2 skills on my bar.

That prooves your point, does it not?

/signed, I want the 12 player party back >.>

*sigh*

The health bars also proved to be an early warning system for places in danger, and you could react as such. Now you see your flags disappear instead.

/signed