12 vs 12 ruined.. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

derrtyboy69

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Clouds

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/Me

30 Apr 2006 at 13:44 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

to me 12v12 wasnt about winning i couldnt care less who won it was about enjoying the mass brawl of 24 random ppl running around like headless chickens

there was no "godly" spike build
no "gay" iway

as a former hardcore PvE trader i actually enjoyed PvP for once now they Fxcked it up

/agree

/signed

Slimcea

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Apr 2006 at 13:53 - 42

Signed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor

Indeed!

Forcing people to make a team helps reduce the number of leavers.

It is quite funny how this community will be two-faced about everything and everything.

As for there being too many Kurzicks..the game has been out for 2/3 days. People will do what they did in the FPE and join the same side. Give it a week, the balance will be there.

We're not being two-faced here. The problems that the community raised during the FPE have not been addressed AT ALL, instead, a new set of problems has simply been introduced. Forcing people to form teams doesn't help reduce the number of leavers. There are still no penalities per se for leaving, so players are free to do it, even in teams of 4. Add to the fact that you now can't freely communicate within your 12 man group and 12v12 is a shadow of its former self.

Mrs Ne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

London, England

Mo/

30 Apr 2006 at 15:23 - 43

/signed!

sir lockt

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Netherlands

Lightning Strikes Twice

Mo/

30 Apr 2006 at 15:42 - 44

I can imagine anet wanted to create some overview, it was difficult to see where everybody is, but why not split the party in 3 groups of 4? (the 4 you entered with). I really think it was all about the massiveness of 12 vs 12 and you should be able to communicate.

Of course: pls dont be negative about it yet, post your comments I am sure if the devs read this, they will try changing it

kalvon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

soldiers of heaven

E/Me

30 Apr 2006 at 15:46 - 45

/signed

I still haven't picked up chapter two due to finals. The fpe alliance battle was what I was looking forward to the most. Got kind of tired of organizing groups for hoh and GvG. I liked the format of jumping in to alliance battle. Now I'm not sure if I am going to pick up factions. I also had about 10 friends that seem intertested in factions after I told them about alliance battles. Now i'm not sure if I am going to support this anymore.

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

30 Apr 2006 at 16:00 - 46

This has been my biggest disappointment so far about factions. Definitely signed.

Tien ak

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Crystal Indignation

R/W

30 Apr 2006 at 16:30 - 47

I never actually played the aliance battles as I wanted to be A surpirse when I went into factions for the first time,

Is it really that bad? to me it sound like Guild wars crossed beetween Battle field 2 which are both my favourite games so that was one big reason I bought factions...

But are you guys saying its crap I don't 100% understand on what the proberlem is if one of you described it in a more detailed way then perhaps Arena net could know exactly what the proberlem was, ok its something about changing how it was but as one of you said some of you moaned about that...

I personaly thought that you would be able to go into the explorable areas in factions with a faction and take over the random villages and temples all over the place and then take big ones like outposts etc...but by the sound of things it sounds exactly like Battle field 2 but with just your squad which is ok...I think...so basiclly your in a group of four and you run around this huge map taking over land, now could a monk see anouther squad on the map and thus join with him to res the other squad or can't you do anything at all?

What I was hoping is that you join as one big group and find little out posts and take them over, I think one suggestion was good where you see the whole team that was a spot on idea...and anouther guy said that it wasn't as its to choatic...something like that...well have you ever looked at the top GVG matches? they use loads of stradegy and they don't allways just go straight in smash each other apart diablo style = )

They properly plan it out this game is not a hack slash. (no shit shurlock)

By the sounds of things It must be preety crappy so I'll prob get more elite skills and wait for Arena net to work things out, I mean come on guys cut em some slack this a free MMORPG and they have done RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing loads. Im preety sure they won't let there brand new game which is going to be the only thing keeping them alive and putting food on their table go tits up do you?

P.S sorry about bad spelling ;- )

Gizmo Loco

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Apr 2006 at 16:56 - 48

/signed

I would also liek to see them put TA back to how it was; Today, my guild was in TA and one had to drop. However, we coudlnt then continue on our winning streak because we only had 3, and sicne nobody enters alone anymore, the chance of havign a group where 3 leave and 1 remians is small. WE waited about 3 minutes, 6 countdowns from 30, before giving up. Also, no lnoger can you enter with 2 people; no more 2 man Ranegr Spike. Now, you just have to 'spike' enter from RA and hope your in the same team.

Sientir

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

At DigiPen.

Biscuit of Dewm [MEEP]

30 Apr 2006 at 21:37 - 49

I felt that I needed to add more to this after having actually done an Alliance battle under the new style.

I'm a Kurzick, btw.

Thoughts:
* Battle took WAY too long to start.
* Communcation was crap (imagine trying to win a GvG while not being able to communicate with 2/3 of your party without talking in All Chat. No voice chat available).
* The whole fun, random, chaotic feel of the FPE Alliance Battles is gone. Just gone. Maybe this is because of the other two above points; it took forever to start, and there aren't random people screaming things.
* Strategy, or rather, what strategy? Thanks to the communication problems, there can NOT be any strategy. See the second point.

Now, I loved the Alliance Battles of the FPE. I can see what ANet was going for here as far as fixes; in my opinion they did it the wrong way.

Complaints from previous system (as I recall them).
NUMBER ONE IN BIG LETTERS: Leavers/Rage quitters. Yes, there were a lot of them. A TON of them. Like, if you had a 12v12 match after 2 minutes, that was miracle. However, leavers are what they are.
* Saboteurs: Um, they could still get in (afaik). I mean...it's not like it'd be that hard or anything.
* noobs/newbs: I think there are less of these, in part because you can't just hop into alliance battles right away (some ways through the game, or at least your guild leader has to get there). Honestly though, this is less of a problem than quitters.
* Standing around waiting for the points to slowly tick up for a victory. They DID fix this, and i think admirably so.

I miss the random access, the crazy yelling, and just the fun that I felt during the FPE. This version feels like i'm in a cacoon. :/

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

30 Apr 2006 at 22:13 - 50

Implement deserter status where if you leave the 12v12 prematurely, you can't join another for 5 minutes or something.

xBEASTx

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gods And Legends [GODS]

N/P

30 Apr 2006 at 22:21 - 51

I think Xellos' Deserter penalty is a great idea. Though I think it should be a little longer than 5 minutes, maybe 10.

I don't understand why people would quit in the first place. You still get Faction even if you lose.

I also think everyone should tell everybody in their guilds to come sign this petition.

derrtyboy69

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Clouds

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/Me

30 Apr 2006 at 22:22 - 52

My comments:

Well first off, the 12v12 is 50% of the reason i bought the game. I was pumped for it, and it was my main draw to buy, and why i anticipated it so much. Now theyve ruined it. It was a way for me to play the fast, fun part of the game that i love, but in a nice large scale that is missing from CA.

Reasons for changes:

Rage quiters: people quit even when they form a 4 man team, not much
solved here. And winning a 8v12 by nice strategy is awesome.

Party spams overpowered: I think the skills were impplemented by Anet for this type of use, and its part of the game. A suggestion: Limit the members affected by the spell to mabye the 4 or 8 closest, or 4 or 8 lowest health members on the team.

Also, just a lvl 20 minimum into the arena would be nice if random

anonymous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

30 Apr 2006 at 22:24 - 53

They didnt ruin it, the only thing that was bad is that you cant talk to the rest of your team. Ok so you now need groups of 4. Less leavers and less noobs hopping in by themselves. It now takes at least 3 other members of your faction to deem you worthy to participate. If you were good you should have no problem getting others to deem you worthy.

Tien ak

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Crystal Indignation

R/W

30 Apr 2006 at 22:25 - 54

You got me convinced

/signed

Xellos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

No Idea

30 Apr 2006 at 22:40 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

They didnt ruin it, the only thing that was bad is that you cant talk to the rest of your team. Ok so you now need groups of 4. Less leavers and less noobs hopping in by themselves. It now takes at least 3 other members of your faction to deem you worthy to participate. If you were good you should have no problem getting others to deem you worthy.

Really? So only good people are allowed to play 12s? Well, let's hear about your accomplishments and game name, so I can see for myself whether or not you are even fit to play in team arena.

Your whole post is flawed.

Cottage Pie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Birmingham, England

Taking Aegis

Mo/Me

30 Apr 2006 at 22:43 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

i only came back to GW for 12v12 now im gonna reconsider

i liked the complete randomness (echoing SS in a mass brawl was fun)

i say bring back the original version

+1

(555)

NumberTheory

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Is Gwen Eighteen [Yet]

Mo/

30 Apr 2006 at 23:24 - 57

/signed!

Genko

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Redemption of the Phoenix

W/

01 May 2006 at 00:34 - 58

/signed

No comment.

Drake Starkiller

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Lords of Lohan

R/Me

01 May 2006 at 00:48 - 59

Well, i know that ive been pounding away at the story line just so i could get my luxon on and 12 vs 12 some. But after reading all the complaints on this form, im rather frightened of what i'll find.
The FPE 12 vs 12 was, hands down, the funnest PvP ive seen in guild wars, or any other mmorpg for that matter, ever. I hope this is some giant, cruel, twisted joke you guys are playing on me.
if they really messed it up, they need to change it back to FPE.
/signed

Formina

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Australia

Slash Fail [ftl]

E/

01 May 2006 at 00:54 - 60

/signed

Bring back the original FPE!

A User Name

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

None atm

01 May 2006 at 01:03 - 61

/signed

Anet what have you done?!?!?! You ruined my main reason to buy factions. I mean 12v12 at FPE was freaking awesome! You want to prevent party spells such as aegis and heal party dont work on all 12, fine i agree 100% with you. Add the other 8 people to the allies list. All Anet you have done was keep me from buying factions until this is fixed.

Formina

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Australia

Slash Fail [ftl]

E/

01 May 2006 at 01:27 - 62

Honestly, I don't think Heal Party and Aegis and the like were *too* overpowered in the old FPE, because you need to be within Radar Range to use them, and the Alliance Battle maps are so big that you will only occasionally have a chance to heal everyone at once. (due to the chaos with everyone running around everywhere).

trogdor inator

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

knights of the trinity

R/

01 May 2006 at 01:40 - 63

/doublesigned
bring back the good ol' FPE 12v12 Anet

Sagura Kagurake

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Oblivions Fury

W/Mo

01 May 2006 at 02:08 - 64

/signed!!!
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ANET!!! the FPE 12v12 was so fun, thats all I did during the FPE. Why did you need to change it I didnt see anything wrong with the FPE version, and the healparty and aegis thing were not that big a thing, MM had a bigger affect than that...

kalvon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

soldiers of heaven

E/Me

01 May 2006 at 03:25 - 65

I think WoW has a form of deserter status. If you rage quit you couldn't enter another battleground for a couple of minutes.

Ras Kass

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Waterloo, Canada

FF

W/A

01 May 2006 at 03:47 - 66

/not signed

The way I see it there are more advantages this way:

Positives:
Better overall team (you choose your squad)
People are more likely to split properly (4 4 4)
Control all outposts = gg
Less quitters (most important)

Negatives:
Longer Wait to start
Less Team communication (as if it mattered when it was 12 randoms)

Other than that, I just want to map to switch!

Drake Starkiller

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Lords of Lohan

R/Me

01 May 2006 at 03:52 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalvon

I think WoW has a form of deserter status. If you rage quit you couldn't enter another battleground for a couple of minutes.

yeah they did. you couldnt enter for 15 minutes or something. i must admit, though, it wasnt really effective. Id just go make a sandwhich and when i got back id be ok to go.
not that i deserted a lot, but there were a few instances.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

01 May 2006 at 03:57 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ras Kass

/not signed

The way I see it there are more advantages this way:

Positives:
Better overall team (you choose your squad)
People are more likely to split properly (4 4 4)
Control all outposts = gg
Less quitters (most important)

Negatives:
Longer Wait to start
Less Team communication (as if it mattered when it was 12 randoms)

Other than that, I just want to map to switch!

re:

Positives:
I always chose my guildmates.

4, 4, 4 is not the only way to split. Some maps situations require more pressure on certain posts, like having runners go and capture unprotected sites while the main battle raged on the center. Being able to choose to join as 12, then split into two sets of 6, or 8 and 2 pairs of cappers. Believe it or not, even with random people and leavers, ive seen some very complicated tactics spring up during the FPE battles.

Now we can have groups of 4 quitters at a time. Imagine a squad of sabotuers?

Negatives:
Yes
Yes

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

01 May 2006 at 04:16 - 69

My question is this.

If you are susposed to split and take different shrines, how are you going to coordinate which teams will take which shrines? Local chat?

imho, any time in the game where you are allied with another party of players, that party should show in your party screen under the allies section, with the ability to speak to you in team chat.

/signed

Tuoba Hturt Eht

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Deimos Tel Arin [CCTV]

W/

01 May 2006 at 04:59 - 70

At lease make it possible to chat with the other 8 players in team chat.

defores

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/Me

01 May 2006 at 05:04 - 71

12 versus 12 is a great idea. One team vs. another. A bunch of 4 person teams running around will be nothing but frustrating. I liked the preview event format. It worked, so why "fix" it?

The best part of the 12 concept is the need to work as a team; sometimes in one group, sometimes in many different sized smaller groups. You split and merge based on the needs at that moment. And I'd be really annoyed being a monk if I had to stand there and watch members of my larger team go down because they are not part of my smaller "team". If I can't help them, then I'm not really on their team.

/signed

Perth68

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Sacred Blood

R/

01 May 2006 at 05:07 - 72

/signed

I want the full 12v12 party screen back and be able to enter singularly. It has some disadvantages too, but it is a lot more fun that way.

draceena

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

01 May 2006 at 05:07 - 73

/signed

Add me to the long list of PvE players who only dabbled in PvP in Prophasies and did not find it that great only to play Factions 12 vs 12 and laugh my ass off and actually want to play again and again excepting the "leavers", which should certainly be given a penality 5 or 10 mins where they can't reenter the 12 vs 12 arena.

Guess what ANet? There will still be leavers and greafers, maybe even more so because of the lack of communication or ease of targeting one team member to follow / heal / remove condition.

V-Dragon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Cali

N/Mo

01 May 2006 at 05:20 - 74

/signed

I'm so disappointed!

12vs12 during FPE was so much fun. I can't believe they ruined the aspect of game I was most looking forward to playing.

TheRanger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

01 May 2006 at 06:09 - 75

/signed

Ken Dei

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/Mo

01 May 2006 at 06:21 - 76

"Signet of MASSIVE approval"
"Signet of Unbridled RAGE"

A.net! I have always been a stout supporter and defender of decisions that you have made! But this, this is completely unacceptable! A good portion of the community, in a very long thread, warned to NOT to change the format! Or at least not change it very much! We WARNED you! Yet, now you have changed it, and as we said we would be, we are pissed! Change it back!

Kali Ma

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

N/Mo

01 May 2006 at 06:49 - 77

/signed

I haven't purchased it yet, because I wanted to see what happened with this specific issue before investing time/money into it. It's really kinda sad, because the thing I was most excited by during the FPE was the 12vs12 Alliance battles... most fun I've had in Guild Wars to date.

I was on the fence as to whether to buy Factions or another game, but reading everyone's comments about this kinda tips me over into "not interested" territory. Really doesn't make much sense why Anet would do this, since it's really not a popular decision.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

01 May 2006 at 06:58 - 78

squad of 4 + 8 allies: /signed.
5-10 minute penalty for dropping: /signed.
ability to enter solo: /SIGNED!

Basically, organizing teams = I wont be playing 12v12. Simple as that.

Eviance

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Eh I forget... o_O

Biscuit of Dewm [MEEP]

R/

01 May 2006 at 07:08 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ras Kass

/not signed

The way I see it there are more advantages this way:

Positives:
Better overall team (you choose your squad)
People are more likely to split properly (4 4 4)
Control all outposts = gg
Less quitters (most important)

Negatives:
Longer Wait to start
Less Team communication (as if it mattered when it was 12 randoms)

Other than that, I just want to map to switch!

Hahahehehahah /:end nervous laughter -
OK so we did this (over and over and over) and ya know what happens when ya do this????

You get a party of the opposite side crushing you cause A: they just happened to be split in a more odd way... and B: they are warriors when most of your party is more balanced...
C: Ya can't get backup from anyone -
All your points get taken because ya got a bunch of 2 2 2 2 cappers running around doing absolutely nothing and its just sad! And then ya get your full team the other 8 (who you cannot communicate with at all) yelling at you cause they were off trying to cap a 3-4protected base while all the others were being snatched up by the other cappers running around.... byebye rez spot, byebye dragon roost, byebye game -_-

And its really really nice of you to be able to go in with guildies... What about everyone else? Are the Alliance battles going to be set up so selfishly that mesmers cannot get in because they are not "wanted"? There are others who have a really hard time finding groups as well Assassins are another that have a hard time finding a group... What if they don't have a guild or rather cannot find any guild mates that want to take time out of missions to do this... Spam LFG! PLEASE PLEASE I NEED A GROUP.....

That's just cruel and personally I find it great that you can go with your guild (as can I) but I really feel for those who do not have that kind of support... I personally speak out against the selfishness of not being willing to look out for the little guy.

I was never a leaver, never have and never will - and I will not be doing alliance battles again till its at least closer to what it was....

For those of you claiming it was unfair you had just as many skills and abilities as the rest of us - if you feared the party not having something that would be useful then you could make a party to include it.... People will always have an advantage over you if you don't learn to conform or make some form of self change.

Good point Formina, and nice to see ya again? Are you stalking us >_> (You should read Red's letter to Anet, its so funny and true and great! - ttyl!)

Thock

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Achieving Deficiency [aD]

01 May 2006 at 10:03 - 80

/signed

Sure most of the time people did not listen to the communications in the team chat, but the times they did it made a big difference. At bear minimum you could spam ping the compass and get peoples attention. As far as HP/Aegies/Order spam goes, both sides can do it, so I dont see where it was broken. Its not like having one means your team automatically wins.