12 vs 12 ruined..

/signed.


some suggestions though:

if they can't use the old FPE style of 12 vs. 12 for alliance control purposes,
then at *least* activate the FPE-style battles as another mode without any effect on the kurzick-luxon line.

so players can now choose from:
random 12 vs. 12 *and*
alliance battles 4-4-4

that way, both type of players wins; and anet will satisfy a larger customer base. the "just for fun" players that want a chaotic-fun fest and easy to get in 12 vs. 12 can play the FPE style without affecting...

the territories of serious powergamers that want an organized and tight
groups of 4-4-4. it's seems those who wants the random 12vs.12 doesn't care much about the territories anyway, they just want that fun mode back.

with more options, let the people decide which mode they like to play.

******

both modes still suffer from leavers though,
the deserter punishment suggestion is nice.
though, i prefer the penalty to be harsher, around 30 minutes to 1 hour.
( leave the ones who err=7 though )

/signed for the deserter punishment to.

Yes, im still very much up for a leavers punishment.. or rather and much bigger reward for the players who stay behind..

simply divide the factions points between the players who stay behind

Gaile did say that the leaver issue was something they were working on after the FPE, nothing appears to have been done though!.. what happened ANET did you just give up ?

100% agree, 1 2 3 or 4 member join was what made alliance battles great. It ment those who hated sitting in the HA waiting for a team to get nothing or a bunch of loser, could now join a 12 member all out war which actualy counted towards something. Its one of the main reasons I purchased factions.

/signed

i also hope that anet will decrease the bar to win the game which is 500 points..

It still seams to me that the anti-FPE are turning a blind eye to the fun factor. They just take the game too seriously.

/signed

Oh Jesus... I end on good terms with one person and now another guy comes along. I really don't feel like continuing this, but I will for the sake my honour. :P

I played in nothing but random arenas for about six months, and then a combination of that and TA for another four. In this month/last month my guild began playing in GvG.
I'm not complaining. Sure, I was a little frustrated that a block of the game was virtually inaccessible to me, but it gave me something to aim for one day.

Thanks for the insults.
Anyways, my guild consists of close friends from RL, we total about 10, and only 4 of us are online daily. We don't go and recruit random people, we don't even take randoms into our party so as not to but them with "elitism".
The fact is we enjoy playing the game seriously, competitively. I ask that you respect that, just as I respect your carefree attitude towards GW.

The fact of the matter is, the solution IS to get into a good guild. If none fit what you want, make your own.
When I started 10 months ago my guild had only 2 people, gaining one every couple of weeks, and it paid off.
What I don't understand here is that people are complaining about an unreliable ability to get into a party, this isn't very linked to having stupid people in your guild or not, so lets stay on topic.

Can you show me your source on this 900 - 1 ratio? Because I don't think looking at one english speaking board is a very good measure.

Well, that's not very nice, but its once again why we try not to bug the everyday player, since they for the most part probably would just get annoyed like you.
Oh, and once again, where's your source on those numbers?

I'll leave out the rest of your message unless there's something specific you want me to reply to, because the bulk of it seems to just be angry attacks on forum-goers, which doesn't exactly reflect very well on you.

here I see few points:

1. people don't like to wait too long for a group. WE NEED LFG system!

2. fun factor vs serious. Not everyone want to be serious. Many people just want to have fun and forcing them to be serious just scare them off. Currently the serious lovers already got their tomb and GvG why do we need another one?

3. no communication between teams where is the strategy???

Its the waiting bit which does it for most. I mean GW is made of alot of tiny guilds with just a few large ones and so the HA, GvG and such is out of the reach of many. I once figured out that if you dont play IWAY in the HA is can take upto an average of 90minutes to get into a team due to the lack of a party system and frankly people being build freaks. Alliance battles simple enter mission no matter if you're in a party or not fixed it. Infact I dont know anyone who didnt consider it the killer feature to get people involved in pvp.

Now the communication between the 3 teams segments, Im not to worried about, as its designed that way to stop uber builds and to start people thinking on their feet.

Yes! >_< Damnit Anet, get a PR in here, we are pissed at you for this!

Yep, I'm one of them, 2 copies, 1 for my girlfriend and 1 Collector Editition for me (and I'm still waiting for CE and have no faction access ATM, just becouse I was trying to suport the good work ANet was doing. )

hmm, I wouldnt say Im pissed off... rather, concerned, maybe a better word.

At the moment ANET are my best friends for giving me the best Birthday present ever! and for making a Fantastic game.

But by reading this post im sure there are alot of people who are pissed off.

Who is Sparky?

people complaining about something they wanted before!!!

this is crazy!!

/singed

bring back the old system and fix the problems it had

4 player teams showing allies is great, but i also want to join and press enter mission w/o having to form a party, whats will be next??? show me your HoH rank or you cant play!? why would i want to go and become rank 6 for an allience battle.. just wait and see what forcing parties to form will do...

Please... cut Anet some slack damnit. The freakin game just freakin camed out. Give it some time for Anet to do their thing and have some freakin damn patience. Jeez.

what is wrong with posting suggestions and petitions? yes the game jsut came out and we are letting thme know what we think of thier changes to 12v12
, how are they going to know any other way?
thats what thier support emails tell us to do anyways.

Thing is all I hear is people complain... Anet did this wrong... Anet did that wrong... Thats not a suggestion then thats a complaint.
12 vs 12 doesnt seem correct. A simple

Anet please reconsider implementing the original 12 vs 12 FPE style as it was much more fun but try to fix the following:

a) Text
b) Text
c) Text

Well, just try to look around this thread a bit, you will sure find many suggestions from many players. Even on this very page...

pigdestroyer, I think most of us missed the memo >_>

Firstly I never knew that anyone was against it and it's only when people don't like something that they speak out - so you cannot say that those posting in here to bring it back ASKED FOR IT! I doubt that any of those protesting the current change signed a petition for it to be "fixed" in anyway.

And as for whoever it was that said "You knew they were changing it to this!"

Again did you send out the memo? Cause ya missed quite a few people, myself included. Had I known it was changing to this I would not have purchased Factions as I am sure many others wouldn't have either.

A lack of communication makes for some very unhappy people! (this is what people are complaining to Anet about Zhou Feng)




(I feel like stabbing myself in the foot for bringing this up but I am going to.)

For those of you who are going on about heal party and aegis there is a simple solution that does not butcher the whole darn thing!
Make the other 8 people appear as ALLIES! (and I think had Warskull bothered to read that I had stated this before, he likely wouldn't have claimed me to be so stupid ;_; aww did I disapoint you? oh well).

This way monks can go in without being COMPLETELY USELESS to the party.

For those of you going on about the chaos and chickens with their heads cut off I have this to say ... and please I really only want to bring it up one last time - so for goodness sakes like the ettin post BACKREAD yeah?

It was chaos cause it was NEW! A lot of people got invites to join in the fun temporarily! A lot of people didn't know what to do, I grabbed the reins a couple of times and lead our party to victory or at least from complete loss (coming up from a 200pt defecit to only lose by 9 is far better than losing the whole kitandkaboodle by 300pts - which happened on many occassions cause no one would take charge or the person that did would lead baddly - or people at first just failed to listen). - I like bad grammar and crazy run-ons leave me be =P -

Before it was over though I was seeing mass coordination of attacks and strategic takeover.... Besides there is nothing like trapping your enemies warp portal >_>
The second level being so much harder than the first FORCED people to make strategic plays - It was finally coming around for those who had never played just how to get by in that game and do some good - when it ended. Now it's this: No chance for the newb and no coordination with the full 12 team.

This is what we are upset about.

As well as a lot of:
Im pissed off Anet
And other literal translations to Anet doesnt know what they are doing. Correct me if Im wrong at perceiving it.

Okay from what I gather what you believe should be done is:

Have the normal party window and two extra ones so you can see your allies. With the new addition to compass you can see whos within range when their names are dimmed, correct? So youd have one usual window with four characters and two more windows beneath that one with all the other allies.

Have some sort of tab in chat called Alliances or sort of so you can communicate with your other allied teams (I suppose TS and Ventrilo can be easily used for your team but not for random allied teams so the chat box may be needed)

Is it ok for people to have feelings and feel betrayed? Becuase they expected one thing and got another?
They are pissed off! I cannot blame them - heck if you read some of my previous posts I shout about it - another thread by my husband that Gaile herself responded to and cleared up a matter that also had me pissed.

She appologised for the misunderstanding and so did I.

But people have a right to be mad when something was built up to be one thing, they spent a lot of money for that one thing only for that one thing to no longer be!

Someone else said it best with this: It's like buying a new car and finding out that the engine isn't there but they tell you it is your fault for not looking under the hood....

Who the heck would buy a NEW car expecting it to be missing the engine?

They have a right to be angry and writing to Anet gets you this response: Please post your ideas and opinions on one of the fan sites.

and that is exactly what they are doing. They are of the opinion that they were screwed and pissed for it!




And yes this was the basic idea - but if you recall the first mission in Cantha (the Tyria character first mission) we started out with Mhenlo and Toga in our allie box but only Mhenlo was on our side of the battle - they could put all the rest of the allies in one box but as someone stated maybe they should have another box for pets? But yes this would keep the uber heal party and aegis from keeping the battles from lasting ungodly long.

And yeah about the TS, there is just no way to get a massive TS going at this moment on something like this with no way to chat other than sending whispers to each person -_- We deffinately need a dialogue box of some sort.

My main complaint is the lack of being able to join alone. The only kind of PvP that i can do whenever i feel like it right now is CA, because i need to sit around and find a team anywhere else. So many people liked the 12v12 because it was a chance to have some fast fun in pvp, with objectives rather than just annhilate your oppenents, and on a large scale. So my suggestions:

Penalties for quiters:
A. Take away some of their faction used for skills, unless they are losing by a massive amount (this would be several hundred points, although im too sure if it matters now that 7 control points instantly wins.)

Requirements: Lvl 20, a good amount of health (no 55ers), and a full skills bar.

Mabye if the alliance battles didnt matter for favor, it wouldnt matter. so:

Rewarded Alliance battles: You gain a reward for winning a alliance battle that matters, my problem with my own suggestion however is it would turn into a HA style rank-fest. So how about gold for the winners? Who can complain about getting gold? For pvp! Hell heres a cure to the 15k unlocking in pvp that people bitch about.

Unrewarded alliance battles: There would be these and rewarded alliance battles, so that people could join alone and have FUN.

PS; one last thing, many people bought the game for the fun 12v12 battles, and if anet keeps it the way it is, they can expect their sales to drop massively. Lets not gives us a preview and a different product Anet. It feels like a i bought a ferrari but got a Mercedes: I bought it for the PvP because the PvE was dull in Prophecies, but instead i like the PvE, but ahte the new pvp

I also agree about the entering as one thing... So many are saying it won't turn into a rank title fest, but when people in PVE Missions are flashing their rank and shouting Rank 6 so and so lfg! Ya know its all headed there -_-
I was amused at how many people were yelling about being infused as well >_>

People think rank is the only thing that matters and the sad part is that anyone even slightly knowledged at IWAY can farm that rank. It's not that I don't know how to IWAY, I want to gain my rank with the knowledge that I earned it!
My guild brought back the necro spike and now its everywhere! It went pretty good but some of our guildies were new to halls and such and didnt have everything unlocked.... We wrapped if up after a few hours.

Now I walk into HA without my guildies and I have to be a rank 6 to get into a blood spike -_-
It's just sad cause Rank doesn't always mean you are all that great.

My guild follows be these simple rules:
You are only as good as your team.
No question is stupid except the question not asked.
No one is more leet than you, nor are you leet.
If you cannot have fun making the journey to the top it's not worth being there.
And of course as you can tell the Golden Rule is our biggest and best friend an enemy.

If everyone followed the Golden Rule things would be so much nicer ;_;

I guess what I am saying is that I don't know that your reward system is all that great, but you are right when you want the one person enter mode.
There has to be a way to penalize quitters without hurting those who honestly just want to play!

/sign

maybe they should make a rule that if you leave, you cant do another aliance battle untill that one ends

/signed

Is this why they took maximum minions down to 4, cos they were overpowered in FPE? Thats bollox, i love my minion armies, although i do admit they were manic in 12 vs 12.
Why does the minion cap have to affect the whole game?

/signed.

actually hun you get 2free minions for lvl 0 of death
and 1 minion for every 2lvls of death there after - so if you are totally maxed out and have a sup rune you have

2 free
+ 6 (if you stop at lvl 12 atts)
+ 2 more if at lvl 16 with a sup
= 10 minions total!



It's really not so bad - most MMs can deal and there is even a counter for ya so that you know how when you can raise more and such. When not raising well of power is sexy for you, your party, and your minions!

And yes the minion armies were GREATLY overpowered in the FPE!


heheh my fuzzy math fixed I over counted for the last 2 -_-

/signed

What Anet has done is a travesty.

I was reading a developer interview and he said that so many people were playing 12 v 12 and how much they enjoyed it. Then they go and do this.

Where is the sense?

If you take a look at the current state of the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles, you will notice that hardly anyone plays in there.

I believe the reason is quite obvious.

I want the FPE 12v12 to come back.

I saw this coming and still bought factions hoping they wouldn't change the great Alliance Battles we had.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000396

I won't be buying Chapter 3.

/signed xBeastx is my guild leader and I fully agree with her....

/signed

The only reason why I'm not doing alliance battles that much right now is mostly from the need to form groups. I also miss the randomness where everyone would shout stuff in team chat.

Absolutely!!! to everyone that supports the plea to change it back!

We need this change, if anything hopefully it can bring back the old levels of play as well, it sucks so much waiting to get into the missions, and perhaps if everyone was allowed to join in 1's or groups, then that would make less wait times!

Please Anet!!! respond or let us know that changes can or will happen! They are needed desperately!!

/signed
It was so much funner when it was random, easy to join and you could actually plan with your team.

Thanks for that link Gale Force!

So wait.... all those people that said we asked for it... did they read all the disaproval? I mean I am only to the second page but about 80% of the first page was Do NOT change it!

again on the second page... still this time over 80% of the page says leave it the hell alone?
(on the 5th page does this all change?)

Twicky keeps going on about how it is a joke to serious pvp players - but HA is a joke to me. I take pvp very seriously when I play it and I can lead a team to victory and I managed to do it several times in these alliance battles as well.

had he or she bothered to try and lead these new people who didn't know how to lead or what they were doing he/she would have taught them something and that would have made a world of difference...

Instead he/she left them to be newbs and probably bitched about it in local chat after the loss. No one learns without patience, practice, and a little teaching!
Why can't these idiot elitest see this that once upon a time they themselves were newb! *disgusted*

/signed

Come Devs, ha-ers
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

... /signed