12 vs 12 ruined..

/signed

other 2 teams listed under allies /signed
allow groups of 3 /2 /1 to enter /signed
team chat works for all 12 / not signed - make a new channel
deserter penalty /signed

FPE -----
played with guildies as much as possable.
was able to take my blood spiker or shutdown mesmer in alone
my most memorable AB was with 3 rage quitters on our side and we still won by 3points
I very much enjoyed the FPE 12 vs. 12
12 vs 12 was THE selling point for me on Factions.

Current -----
play with guildies as much as possable.
Blood spiker isn't too hard to get into a group, but i'm tired of begging for someone to let my mesmer in.
I haven't noticed the quitters, but i can't see my allies either, so how can I tell if we're down a person or 2?
I am enjoying the current version of 12 vs. 12, but not as much as the old version, I bought factions for my ranger / mesmer/ necro. If the Alliance Battles don't interest me as much as they used to, I will not buy a copy for my warrior / ele / monk.

wolfey

Wolfey I think I agree with ya on another tab/channel - that is if they plan to keep the whole bloody thing seperate - but if they are going to throw us back in hodgepodge (which I am kinda still hoping for) then I don't see a point for yet ANOTHER channel/tab but that is just me.

Thanks for your input!
And for those of you seeing those Meepers running around in ABs currently, they are farming Jade for sell so =P

Great now you just have farmers or people who want their armor *sighs*

Here are the current facts as I posted in another AB thread:

AYIE! Some dude comes out with an example of the idea I had and suddenly he is being voted president =P
Though I am sure someone had that idea before me as well -_-

I don't mind so much the needing 4 people. That I can understand. But no more chat or seeing your team members? It just kills the whole experiance. Having a full 12 people in communication was amaizing. They went and killed it.

/singed, please change it back. This was the only time I really liked the PvP.

/Signed - /signed for all those that be arsed to sign but still agree.

What the hell were they thinking?

It will be changed, as we speak they're monitoring 12 v 12 activity and seeing that it's at an all time low (compared to FPE).

The numbers speak for themselves..its simple. The FPE had more.

Just fix it A-Net, WE ALL LOVE U HERE and so we understand when u make Complete and Utter Blunders because, we know you'll RECTIFY them asap ;-)

Won't you?

The thread Gale Force linked to was prophetic. 8 out of 10 who posted, including the top player Ensign, were in favor of the semi-random format, but everything went exactly like Twicky Kid said it would (and wanted), and Ensigns fears came true.

It's pretty obvious to me that the whole vision has shifted. With Factions ANet is emphasizing competitiveness over casualness, and reducing soloing by forcing grouping. This is not the way I wanted GW to go, and frankly it is not the game I want to play. I've not given up, but I'm not happy.

And for the record: the 12v12 in the preview event was the most fun PvP I've ever played. It needed some tweaking, yes, but the casualness, chaos and mayhem was what made it fun.

duh uhhh you g3t teh wammos on ur team and tehy liek aggro teh draguns lopl.no aegis for tehm so they die. /signed

When are they going to fix this crap... tought they read this Forum daily omfg -_- atleast they could give a sign that they are working on it or something if they are

I think if Anet wants to please everyone they should make a Random Alliance battle and a Team Alliance battle. Just like Random Arenas and Team Arenas. Random is random 4-4-4 and team is organised group of 12s where everyone in the team can see each other.

I already addressed this a couple of pages back. Such a system would ruin AB for my region (Europe), where I already had to wait 10+ minutes to get into a battle during the FPE.

I wouldn't call Ensign the "top player" but mostly the most imformed. But yes that thread contents great amount of insight, same as this one.

I really hope A.net changes the system and soon, I have no reached the 12v12 areas yet, but plenty of Guildies have been complaining about it.

/signed

I want my fun back.

/signed

I thought FPE stood for Factions Preview Event. Why did they show us a fun new way to play the game in the preview and take it away in the retail game?

Companies call them... improvements ^_^

/signed

/signed

Yeah this needs to be changed back. I think you shouldn't be united or bound by your 4 person group, but you should be united as 12v12 with your fellow kurzicks. Plus although getting into a group may not always be hard, it sure can be a pain sometimes. I think 12v12 was better before because it was more united with the whole team. Now it's basicly like you're in TA hoping the other 2 teams do their job.

And one other thing, about party skills being too good, you have to relize, the other team can do anything you can do, hence it's fair. Well maybe not COMPLETLY fair in some aspects, but even so, skills that effect the whole party were never a problem in the preview.

Yes the Necro E0Ers were anoying in FPW... So were the Ragequiters....

HOWEVER THIS IS MUCH MORE ANNOYING!!!

I also want my 12v12 fun back!! At least then I could just join up with my Mesmer or whatever I had.

/signed

Yeah, this NEEDS to be changed back.

Guess what? Apparently if you are a mesmer, people don't want you on thier team. THAT'S RIGHT. People were kicking me from their groups becuase they didn't want mesmers. Apparently I can't play my favourite class now......

And look how many districts thier are for the 12 v 12. At most I see 2. And the second one has like 1 person. I am REFUSING to go in there. That way Anet can see that what they did to "improve" it went wrong.

I suggest everyone who dislikes 12 v 12 don't play it until they fix it.

Sad news.

Signed.

This sums it up perfectly.

/signed x 3

I know im contridicting myself here but really this post has gone on long anough if you scrape all the bitching away and 'your an idiot no your an idiot' no one has came up with a suggestion just bitching

How come I post one of my ideas in and just beacuse two people doesn't like it the mod gets on his high hourse and closes it, yet an 11 page Thread with no suggestions no elaborating on ideas is some how going somewere

Whats the point putting /signed when you don't say what you sign or give a reason? no wonder Arena net hasn't responded cuz all say is your to stupid and lack this and that.

Why not post an idea? you don't like an idea say why and come up with your own...It really ticks me off how Guild wars Guru mods close down reasonable idea threads but not waste of time threads like this.

I go with the idea of having two faction arenas one with the old and one with the new as some people like it the new and some like the old. I can't say which one I like as I don't want to play it yet. I do think there are certain smart people here who have actually summed up what people want to be done which is breath of fresh air.

So to do my part towards arena net...

What needs to chage about factions 12v12
------------------------------------------

People want the old FPE style back so make anouther arena based on your orignal idea.

People also like the new style so keep it as it is but add the following...

1) The option to see your entire team maybe break it up in Squad one, Squad two etc.

2) Punish leavers who leave NOT by lagg or disable the 'm' key during ALL PVP AND MISSIONS

3) We need a 'Take me back' button for people who do lag out and want to return also a message when I lag out stating I have lagged out and will return shortly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't think of any more suggestions so instead of wating your time and arena nets time post ideas or constructive critsism

Thank you

Tien ak

Correct me if I'm wrong I belive what people are /signing about is to change the alliance battles back to the way they were in the preview. Thus the idea has already been clearly stated in the first post.

It's good to think of ideas, but I see a flaw with 2 diffrent allience battle areas. Have you noticed how hard it can be to get enough people for one? With 2 diffrent places, there just won't be enough people.

Anyway those are just my thoughts.

/signed

I mostly play as a monk when i go in...and if i have to pick people to join up with at random, its usually awful. I see someone taking damage and go to heal them, and realize they're halfway across the radar >_>. There are parties that go in without monks, and Its like trying to to target a minion as a mm trying to heal them...its ridiculous. I really liked the REAL 12v12, please change it back Anet.

/signed

My reasons have already been said by previous posts by many others

Mr Wolfmaster, I hate to state the obvious, but thats because people would be playing the old way and not the new way (for the same reason it's hard to get a group now in AB, no one/few want to play that way).

I see the possibility for other bad issues cropping up as well, but meh since it likely won't split into two then it's really not worth bringing up.


Tien Ak (I took away my bitching in some areas =P Aren't you proud of me XD I know my husband is, he thought he was going to have to duct tape my hands AND my mouth! X'D)

Some are actually saying back to way it was but some are simply putting /signed

Nah thats cool no sweat I havn't been in an alliance battle yet mainly beacuse what i've heard on this has put me off it completely and I can't give out a fair jugement on the FPE one and the modern one as I havn't played the FPE edition.

You guys do know that the next expansion is going to be more dungeons and solo so people who like carnage will like chapter 3 and also for people who like the tactic side of Guild wars...well im sure Arena net won't let us down

I understand you guys want prof of my knowlage? i'll try and find a link to an interview with one of the Guild wars team and put it in a seprate thread.

Well I have another thread that is NOT full of ranting and Gaile did assure us that they are reading our posts, whether they will change anything remains to be seen but they are reading things like this.

I'm glad to hear that the devs do see how we feel about this.

I certainly hope that as they've created such an awesome game previously, that they'll know what to do now and bring back the glory and fun that was the old FPE, and perhaps with some of the great suggestions posted throughout this thread!

/signed

A Monk can't heal without the friend life bar. It's a Team, not a team split based battle. Everyone can choose the best technique.

/signed

I agree the old version was way better you could go in fast and communicate with your party in an easy way without having to talk in all chat so the other team can hear it also. Now it is totally messed up, you need 4 ppl which doesnt take as long and as others have said there are more kurzicks than luxons so it takes forever to even start a battle.

Bring back the FPE 12 vs 12...

/signed , also, i have fun with the 12v12... but i see many MANY changes to it in the future..... i dont know, it just doesnt seem complete right now lol

/signed

its not quite 12 v 12. More like 3 groups of 4 vs another 3 groups of 4.

I liked how we could just click enter mission, and just rock and roll. Now...some groups are going to discriminate on your class you are, making it harder to play in a "12v12". Groups only looking for specific classes.....yeah its not likable in the slightest.

Also Think that being a monk is absolutely worthless. Im not going to attempt to hold control, and try to click on a ranger as hes running for his life.

Eviance, I believe you said it best, "Personally it's looking a lot more like HoH and being LEET then having fun - 12v12 the way it was was the ultimate idea of fun!" ~Eviance

/signed

...again... as I wait longer to get into a faction battle than the battle actually takes. Blame it on people not having Factions yet, but the 12v12 change definately affected it.

I noticed that too. Perhaps they are working on something

come on anet come over to the dark side.

/signed

Awesome this crappy change on 12vs12.

/Anet ban

/signed

At least make the other 8 players "allies" (like pets, guild bodyguards, etc.), if HP and Orders were so overpowered.

/signed

This /signed stuff is silly.

Monitor of other 8 players will be cool
also ability to chat with them
The ability to allow 1-3 people to join however will affect the whole mechanism. This will need reworking on the monitoring stuff.

So everyone agrees on the monitoring and chat stuff, so it comes actually to the random join thing:
The good sides - you don't need to wait or find a party, you just join in the fray. Also when you are not put in a party you may freelance for good...or for bad.
The bad sides - Many users posted most of those reasons - too much randomness, big lack of coordination, "everyone for himself" style of play and so on.
My prediction:But if you ask me the biggest problem will show itself after a month of play (when the game is fully shipped, finished, alliances formed, people familiar with the new stuff). THEN it will become to absolutelly opposite to what people want it - the chaos and charisma of the FPE 12vs12 will be pierced by top Korean (and not so many non Korean guilds) which will totally dominate the field with their 12vs12 builds and will stand almost no chance by the "fun searching" random joining players. Remember when the korean guilds were using mass war's builds with blackout? Everyone screamed out loud of frustation that they cheated and so on...but actually they were one of the first that showed specialized Tombs (now HA) build that did EXACTLY what it was made to - to kick unorganized pug's butts. Later on other guilds began to made their builds and thus it become more stable. (There are many excemptions, so please do get offended). I fear it will become worse with the 12vs12, when the organized 12 or 8 players team will just wipeout and take control of the map in 5 mins. And it will happen because one of the teams will be by 4+4+4 fully self supported squads that have purposes (like defenders, skirmishers, and act as one whole 12 on the field) and the other side will be made of 12 single or most 2 persons squads (1+1+1+1+1+1+.... or 1+2+1+2+3+1+...)who play for themselves.
So focusing on 4 team forced squads will maybe make it worse for some in the beggining but later, it will be become a way better.

Some players fear that the 4+4+4 will force players to stay only by 4, but I think they will quickly adapt to split by 2's or even 1's if needed (GvG splits are still active and ofter work good). Also when (I know they will) implent the other parties monitoring and with the last update Radar players range indicator it will be pretty easy to see if some other party member is near you (so you can support him if you see he needs a hand) or you don't need to worry for him, (if he is far to away from your party).

You see, it all comes down to fun. The vast majority of Guild Wars players (my assumption being based on opinions by in-game friends/guildies/allies, GWO, TGH, this community, and the Italian community) thinks the FPE 12v12 was fun, while the release 12v12 is not.

It really is simple as that. I enjoyed the chaos and randomness of FPE 12v12, and also the fact that everyone could join in and you could put up some kind of strategy (the fact that people often didn't care is another story). The only downside of 12v12 were quitters, but that could've been taken care of somehow. I never really expected serious and organized PvP (there's GvG for that), just some fun.

Maybe the current 12v12 will evolve and become better while keeping its principles, but all I can say now is that it's less fun than the FPE was.