So, uh. (Elite Missions)

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:33 - 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Actually you make a few decent points here. You and I are fundamentally opposed on our view of how good/bad this system is. That's fine. What I disagree with in your above statement is that we don't need to present an alternative in order to validate our arguments. We've said why we don't like Alliance control of elite missions and how we feel that it reduces the quality of experience for us. That's sufficient and should be enough for ANet to take notice. They are the gaming company and they are getting paid to develop and maintain the game. It's their job to find viable alternatives to what I consider a broken system because I'm paying them to do that as their customer.
You paid for GW:F, no? Then you paid for "The best and most powerful alliances can venture on Elite Missions, which are designed to be the ultimate challenge for even the most experienced teams." Okay, your Alliance may not own HzH or Cavalon, so why don't you explain to me why it is one of the best and most powerful alliances? If you can convince me you're worthy of being called one of the best and most powerful alliances, I'll drop everything.

Blaine Derrick

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:34 - 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Here Derek,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic

As far as my Japanese friends in the engineering department tell me this stuff holds true whether you speak Japanese, English or Martian.

1 OR 1 = 1
Might want to read that article again. Specifically, take a look at this part:

Quote:
Care should be taken when converting an English sentence into a formal Boolean statement. Many English words have imprecise meanings which may correspond with multiple formal meanings, for example, the word NOT:

* "All that glitters is not gold."

That could mean that "nothing that glitters is gold" or "some things which glitter are not gold".

AND and OR can also be used interchangeably in English, in certain cases:

* "I always carry an umbrella for when it rains and snows."

* "I always carry an umbrella for when it rains or snows."

Also note that the word OR in English may correspond with either logical OR or logical XOR, depending on the context:

* "I start to sweat when the humidity or temperature is high." (logical OR)

* "You want candy and ice cream? You may have candy, or ice cream." (logical XOR)

The combination AND/OR is sometimes used in English to specify a logical OR, when just using the word OR alone might have been mistaken as meaning logical XOR:

* "I'm having chicken and/or beef for dinner." (logical OR)

A case where this is an issue is when specifications for a computer program or electronic circuit are supplied as an English paragraph describing their function. For example, the statement "the program should verify that the applicant has checked the male or female box", should be taken as an XOR, and a check added to ensure that one, and only one, box is selected. In other cases, the interpretation of English may be less certain, and the author of the specification may need to be consulted to determine their true intent.
This was the entire point of Derek's statement, that the joke mentioned is only funny due to the imprecise nature of the English language.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:35 - 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Look at how /rank is migrating to PvE. Also, if you haven't grinded, chances are you aren't UAX, therefore you're not as valuable as other players who play as often as you. And it probably would dampen your ability to find a good group based on what skills you have, just maybe not in one specific zone, ToA.
Yeah we're not all as 1337 as you you know, not all of us know what UAX means...

Obviously you are a member of the groups that routinely fail then blame it on someone else. Perhaps some day you'll grow up and learn that Quantity (hours spent playing) does not mean Quality.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:37 - 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Ever use the more commonly used operands, such as ∨? Also, I'm sorry that I use logic in applications such as computer science, where + has a much different meaning. Hell, + also has an implied meaning as AND for Boolean Logic.
As you might know (since you use it in programming) there are different system for boolean logic. + is commenly used as or operator. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Shanaeri Rynale

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

05 May 2006 at 00:37 - 485
Quote:
If you can convince me you're worthy of being called one of the best and most powerful alliances, I'll drop everything.
Define Best. If you mean best as moronic no skill farming then yup the best alliances will win. If you mean best as in most skilfull then please vacate the thread.

The system implemented at the moment does NOT reward skill, it rewards grind. For proof lets look at the supplies mission for Luxon.

Pop outside pick up supplies.
Run around a bit, stop in set points to heal up
Talk to guy
Get reward
Map Back

400 Faction plus 2000Xp and 150 gold for 90 seconds.

Any skill involved in that? Nope Takes 2 minutes to learn. I give the faction bots 2 days before they are doing this 24X7

Rewarding skill would mean getting access to the elite missions by doing something that takes actually takes skill and coordination. I dunno. Complete the game, Clear several high end areas first to unlock the elite missions. Anything but running to and fro avoiding giant fish please...

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:38 - 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
You paid for GW:F, no? Then you paid for "The best and most powerful alliances can venture on Elite Missions, which are designed to be the ultimate challenge for even the most experienced teams." Okay, your Alliance may not own HzH or Cavalon, so why don't you explain to me why it is one of the best and most powerful alliances? If you can convince me you're worthy of being called one of the best and most powerful alliances, I'll drop everything.
So is power defined as #of members grinding for faction? Is that ANet's qualification for missions for only the most experienced teams?

By the way, you've changed your argument. You've been saying that you need to be an elite player to play the elite missions. Then you said Time > Skill. Now you're saying that I have to be worthy of being the best alliance.

All I've said throughout this thread is that grinding faction doesn't mean your elite or powerful. Just that you are good at getting a lot of people to grind together.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:41 - 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Define Best. If you mean best as moronic no skill farming then yup the best alliances will win. If you mean best as in most skilfull then please vacate the thread.

The system implemented at the moment does NOT reward skill, it rewards grind. For proof lets look at the supplies mission for Luxon.

Pop outside pick up supplies.
Run around a bit, stop in set points to heal up
Talk to guy
Get reward
Map Back

400 Faction plus 2000Xp and 150 gold for 90 seconds.

Any skill involved in that? Nope Takes 2 minutes to learn. I give the faction bots 2 days before they are doing this 24X7

Rewarding skill would mean getting access to the elite missions by doing something that takes actually takes skill and coordination. I dunno. Complete the game, Clear several high end areas first to unlock the elite missions. Anything but running to and fro avoiding giant fish please...
They still have those Supplies missions then.... i thought they were there just for the FPE. Took lots of skill to do them..... oh wait, no it didn't. But whats it matter because now i have access to a high level area that i can continuely repeat until i become a good player.

Like you said, rewarding people for effectively farming seems to be the opposite of what Anet did on Prophecies.

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:41 - 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Derrick
This was the entire point of Derek's statement, that the joke mentioned is only funny due to the imprecise nature of the English language.
Ah yes, and Derek's point was to be slippery and obtuse in order to avoid being answering to some of his rather absurd statements. (Just like he's been throughout this thread.)

I do take your point though. Thanks for the correction.

Iskrah

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

05 May 2006 at 00:42 - 489
Guys, there is the petition!
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3025386

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:42 - 490
/resign

I only hope ANet does change the system I near future.

For Derek: Enjoy your elite missions.

Swehurn

Swehurn

1,787,569

Join Date: Jul 2005

BC, Canada

05 May 2006 at 00:44 - 491
Unfortunately this thread has degenerated into an all out flame fest and as such it has been closed.