So, uh. (Elite Missions) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:46 - 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

No, the elite missions are not part of the storyline and are in no way related to it as I understand it.

We are talking about the content not the storyline.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 23:46 - 402

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Yup. Hell, you didn't pay for Sorrow's Furnace, it came free, so call it even if you'd like. You don't get access to something that at the most will last 5 hours if you complete it because you're not in the right alliance or friends with the right alliance, but you do get access for something that'd take ten times that amount of time to complete in entirety.

50 fcking hours for the quests of SF? What kind of Elite are you exactly?

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:46 - 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

You know you are talking about 95 % of the players of GW ?

Yes. I probably wouldn't even go in with 99% of the Guild Wars. That'd be a waste of my time.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:46 - 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Okay, here's a better argument: It's ArenaNet's game. They determined that only the top Alliance and people they take to the Elite Mission can have access. No arguing with that, they're the game designers. Hell, if you come up with 15 game designers who all disagree with ArenaNet's stance, I'll be very impressed. Even if none of them have the resume or experience of some of ArenaNet's top designers like Mike O'Brien.

Erm, last i checked this is my game. I paid for the damn thing. They only designed the basics, if the masses want something changed or added, they do it or lose valuable customers, its that simple.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:47 - 405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

The actual Elite Missions don't even take place on the Canthan map as presented, so I'd say no.

Neither do UW and FOW. I still have access to them.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:47 - 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

The actual Elite Missions don't even take place on the Canthan map as presented, so I'd say no.

So does that mean that when i bought GW Prophecies i didn't pay for FoW, UW, Tombs, HA, RA or TA? I don't see any of them appearing on the Tyrian map, guess i didn't pay for them.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:48 - 407

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Erm, last i checked this is my game. I paid for the damn thing. They only designed the basics, if the masses want something changed or added, they do it or lose valuable customers, its that simple.

You paid for a license to access the Guild Wars servers, which can also be rescinded at any time for any reason. You agreed to the EULA, you should at least know what it's talking about. No where in there was it spelled out that you can get whatever you want, whenever you want, for free. Hell, if this was the case I'd have FoW armor on all of my character with 4 Green weapon sets, but no, you have to earn some things in the game, otherwise it's just dumb.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:49 - 408

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Yes. I probably wouldn't even go in with 99% of the Guild Wars. That'd be a waste of my time.

I honour that you have a high opinion of yourself, but I truly hope that in RL you are quite different and not such an elitist, like you are behaving now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

No where in there was it spelled out that you can get whatever you want, whenever you want, for free.

You are exaggerating my lad. I just want to have access to what I have bought.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:50 - 409

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So does that mean that when i bought GW Prophecies i didn't pay for FoW, UW, Tombs, HA, RA or TA? I don't see any of them appearing on the Tyrian map, guess i didn't pay for them.

They could take out any of those and be fine, just like they could take out the Great Northern Wall if they'd like, or even Pre-Searing. It's their game.

I realize the map thing was weak though, duly noted.

You don't own any part of the game that you play other than a license to access it that's entire provisional on ArenaNet allowing you to play it.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:50 - 410

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

You paid for a license to access the Guild Wars servers, which can also be rescinded at any time for any reason. You agreed to the EULA, you should at least know what it's talking about. No where in there was it spelled out that you can get whatever you want, whenever you want, for free. Hell, if this was the case I'd have FoW armor on all of my character with 4 Green weapon sets, but no, you have to earn some things in the game, otherwise it's just dumb.

I get to access the GW servers, yes. Where exactly in that post did i say that when i want FoW armour i must have it now on demand? I can't find anywhere, does wanting things added or changed mean i now want to upgrade my own characters?

Edit by Swehurn: removed flames. Please note that calling other people names is not acceptable.

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 23:50 - 411

And I agree with Derik: ArenaNet's game, you bought it, it's your decision to play it... if you don't play it because you can't access the 'elite mission' then it's your own loss really.

Care to think up a counter to that logic?

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted quote.

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

04 May 2006 at 23:52 - 412

Actually it's Anets loss because no one will buy the next game (apart from Thomans and Derek)

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:52 - 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

And I agree with Derik: ArenaNet's game, you bought it, it's your decision to play it... if you don't play it because you can't access the 'elite mission' then it's your own loss really.

Care to think up a counter to that logic?

That's the thing: you aren't. All you are doing is trying to insult people and spin fallacies as valid arguments. Please go back and read the whole thread, every point you think you have has been addressed and refuted.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted quote.

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

04 May 2006 at 23:53 - 414

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I'm not "too elitist" to play with these players, but I sure as hell aren't going to take them into an Elite Mission. It's not for them.

Doesn't this statement in any way strike you as being elitist? I think you've painted yourself into a corner and now your just defending an invalid argument/point for the sake of not appearing wrong.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:54 - 415

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

And I agree with Derik: ArenaNet's game, you bought it, it's your decision to play it... if you don't play it because you can't access the 'elite mission' then it's your own loss really.

Care to think up a counter to that logic?

Yeah, Anet want customers, they want people to buy there game (or access to there servers to shut Derek up), if they don't make it fair on everybody or deliver what they said. As quoted many times, they said its about skill, not time spent. From what i've heard that is utter bollocks with these 'Elite' missions. By the sound of it its the ones with the most members or people online that get to be called 'elite', not the people who truly are good at the game.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted post.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:55 - 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

And I agree with Derik: ArenaNet's game, you bought it, it's your decision to play it... if you don't play it because you can't access the 'elite mission' then it's your own loss really.

Care to think up a counter to that logic?

I'm playing GW but I'd like to have access to those missions w/o farming or leaving my friends guild.

Please.. logic is very sensible..

BTW: What does a pregnant logic student (female) reply to the question if it is a boy or a girl?
Yes.

Get it?

Edit: Spelling

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:55 - 417

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

No, I'm putting forward arguments, your supposed to counter-argue it, not give in and express your wish to have me banned.

No, really, you're not offering us any arguments.

You're posturing, throwing around smug assumptions, and being argumentative based upon nothing else than some kind of sense of superiority that might not even be remotely justified for all we know.

There's a difference.

Please take it back to IRC with Derek. I'm sure you can be very happy together.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:56 - 418

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Doesn't this statement in any way strike you as being elitist? I think you've painted yourself into a corner and now your just defending an invalid argument/point for the sake of not appearing wrong.

I am elitist, so? I'm playing the game just like everyone else, really, just without the bitching.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:57 - 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I get to access the GW servers, yes. Where exactly in that post did i say that when i want FoW armour i must have it now on demand? I can't find anywhere, does wanting things added or changed mean i now want to upgrade my own characters?

Access to elite missions is exactly like access to owning FoW armor; you have to earn it, or find a friend that'll get you there.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced delted quote.

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

04 May 2006 at 23:58 - 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

No, the elite missions are not part of the storyline and are in no way related to it as I understand it.

Is your understanding superior to anyone elses? I doubt it. Face it, people are upset because the a lot of us think it's ridiculous to force a mode of play upon us that was counter to why we bought the original game in the first place. It doesn't take too much to see that point of view does it?

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 23:58 - 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

That's the thing: you aren't. All you are doing is trying to insult people and spin fallacies as valid arguments. Please go back and read the whole thread, every point you think you have has been addressed and refuted.

Prove it. Please. I read all 21 pages of this thread (graphics card fried! Who can blame me :|) and didn't find a single, solid argument as to why people deserve to play these 'Elite Missions' and I also didn't find any reason for the whine. This whole thread is comprimised of whine, in a nutshell, people are whining when they have no reason to whine.

I'm just trying to point that out, some people are just too stubborn to support ArenaNet, and think that everything ArenaNet does is out to get them. If there is a problem, (eg, arenanet think there is a problem with elite missions) they will change the game mechanichs to fix it, until then, you just have to put up with it :\.

Another IRC quote:

00:51.28 ( rin`atwork ) the people in the thread try to blame elitism or whatever, when in fact they are idiots that jumped to conclusions when factions has been out for 1 week.....

He has a point, it's a bit early to be saying all this..

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:58 - 422

Derek please leave this thread. You've contradicted yourself about 8 times in the last 3 pages. In the last 2 posts you've gone from 'i'm not elitist' to 'i am elitist'.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:58 - 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

Please.. logic is very sensible..

BTW: What does a pregnant logic student (female) reply to the question if it is a boy or a girl?
Yes.

Get it?

Doesn't have anything to do with the thread, for one, and for two, this is simply a quirk of the English language. In different languages this doesn't hold true. Logic is universal, on the other hand.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:59 - 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Derek please leave this thread. You've contradicted yourself about 8 times in the last 3 pages. In the last 2 posts you've gone from 'i'm not elitist' to 'i am elitist'.

Okay, sure I'll leave the thread. (Let's just see if I contradict this.)

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:00 - 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Doesn't have anything to do with the thread, for one, and for two, this is simply a quirk of the English language. In different languages this doesn't hold true. Logic is universal, on the other hand.

Oh.. I can't understand what you are saying but I will explain anyway.

Or is an operator in logical maths --> 1 or 1 holds = true, therefore she replies yes

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:00 - 426

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

Prove it. Please. I read all 21 pages of this thread (graphics card fried! Who can blame me :|) and didn't find a single, solid argument as to why people deserve to play these 'Elite Missions' and I also didn't find any reason for the whine. This whole thread is comprimised of whine, in a nutshell, people are whining when they have no reason to whine.

I'm just trying to point that out, some people are just too stubborn to support ArenaNet, and think that everything ArenaNet does is out to get them. If there is a problem, (eg, arenanet think there is a problem with elite missions) they will change the game mechanichs to fix it, until then, you just have to put up with it :\.

Thank you.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

05 May 2006 at 00:01 - 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

And what you've typed is just a series of letters on the internet. I am elitist, so? I'm playing the game just like everyone else, really, just without the bitching.

This a community website dedicated to talking about GW. It happens that a lot of fans of ANet are really displeased that the new orientation of the Guild Wars chapters is going towards encouraging GRINDING over skills. It's a contradiction when ANet asks you to take a break after 3hours of playing, and requires you to be in a group of hundreds of people organised to amass points, to get into a challenging intriguing mission.

And what are you doing exactly anyway? Bitching about bitches hu? That's the pot calling the kettle black. If you're fine with it, just roll with it ; if people wants to protest against it, they can do it without being called "noobs", "waste of time" by you elitist. Got that, okay?

Edit by Swehurn: Removed flames.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:02 - 428

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

Oh.. I can't understand what you are saying but I will explain anyway.

Or is an operator in logical maths --> 1 or 1 holds = true, therefore she replies yes

Again, saying "1 or 1" in that context is only a quirk of the English, and some other, languages. For example in Japanese it'd be expressed as the listener choosing between the two; it can never be confused as "Is it one of these?"

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:03 - 429

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Access to elite missions is exactly like access to owning FoW armor; you have to earn it, or find a friend that'll get you there.

No its not, earning FoW armour can be done with time but its a bonus. Its merely for viewing pleasure. Elite missions are part of the game that shouldn't be cut off from everyone just because we aren't in a massive alliance.

As for the 2nd part, what do you do then? Earn your badges or borrow them from a friend? Something tells me its the latter, you do bugger all just you can act like the 'elite'.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed flames.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:04 - 430

Thank you Iskrah. But I don't think he will understand your point. He will feel personally attacked and continue to defend his point of view. Until he has to realise that what 95 % of the people want more power has than his sole elitist point of view.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:05 - 431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

This a community website dedicated to talking about GW. It happens that a lot of fans of ANet are really displeased that the new orientation of the Guild Wars chapters is going towards encouraging GRINDING over skills. It's a contradiction when ANet asks you to take a break after 3hours of playing, and requires you to be in a group of hundreds of people organised to amass points, to get into a challenging intriguing mission.

Get over it and don't buy Chapter 3 then. Hell, quit Guild Wars now. I guarantee you ArenaNet will be fine, and will easily make it to Chapter 4.

I never grinded, yet I was able to play the alliance missions; seriously, is that the best you've got?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

And what are you doing exactly anyway? Bitching about bitches hu? That's the pot calling the kettle black. If you're fine with it, just roll with it ; if people wants to protest against it, they can do it without being called "noobs", "waste of time" by you elitist . Got that, okay?

I'm not bitching about bitches, I'm showing my support for ArenaNet and their designers' decisions about Guild Wars.

Edit by Swehurn: Deleted flames from referenced quote.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:06 - 432

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Again, saying "1 or 1" in that context is only a quirk of the English, and some other, languages. For example in Japanese it'd be expressed as the listener choosing between the two; it can never be confused as "Is it one of these?"

It is not a quirk of language.. it is maths. But don't bother, it is probably a subject you don't like anyway

. Or you might do so. I don't know.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:07 - 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

No its not, earning FoW armour can be done with time but its a bonus.

Well, Elite Missions can be done without spending any time grinding. I doubt many people would say the same about FoW armor. So okay, it makes sense. You can either spend time to work for a bonus, or not spend time and get to play an Elite Mission.

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

05 May 2006 at 00:07 - 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Is your understanding superior to anyone elses? I doubt it. Face it, people are upset because the a lot of us think it's ridiculous to force a mode of play upon us that was counter to why we bought the original game in the first place. It doesn't take too much to see that point of view does it?

Closing post before sleep but.

I disagree.

You, and people like you in this thread are 'upset'. There are more people in the world except you, that are absoloutely fine, they think its ok, its nice, nothing wrong with it, they are just not bored enough to post here.

Really, ArenaNet won't change something because of a few whiners on forums, that isn't a fair representation of the total playing population, ie: it represents zero of the high end pvp players, which are the probably the most important thing in Guild Wars now...

GWFC anyone? All I ask is that people stop whinging, stop trying to spoil the game for me and the rest that like it, and dont have to complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I'm not bitching about bitches, I'm showing my support for ArenaNet and their designers' decisions about Guild Wars.

Word! <3 derek!

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:07 - 435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I never grinded, yet I was able to play the alliance missions; seriously, is that the best you've got?

Look at me I'm elite. Look I have biiig hands.

Please Derek. Do you need to rub in other peoples face that you had access to something which they are not able to?

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 May 2006 at 00:07 - 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

Prove it. Please. I read all 21 pages of this thread (graphics card fried! Who can blame me :|) and didn't find a single, solid argument as to why people deserve to play these 'Elite Missions' and I also didn't find any reason for the whine. This whole thread is comprimised of whine, in a nutshell, people are whining when they have no reason to whine.

I'm just trying to point that out, some people are just too stubborn to support ArenaNet, and think that everything ArenaNet does is out to get them. If there is a problem, (eg, arenanet think there is a problem with elite missions) they will change the game mechanichs to fix it, until then, you just have to put up with it :\.

Another IRC quote:

00:51.28 ( rin`atwork ) the people in the thread try to blame elitism or whatever, when in fact they are idiots that jumped to conclusions when factions has been out for 1 week.....

He has a point, it's a bit early to be saying all this..

Ok, Thomas, you're being civil now, and I won't immediately dismiss you.

It has been stated many times in the thread that you don't have to be a good player to get access to these missions, you just need a large alliance. If you don't have to be good to get in, why restrict access at all? If sucky players try to do it and fall flat on their faces, let them. If they start complaining thatit's too hard, I will be right behind you telling them to practice until they can do it.

There are plenty of things designers can reward good players with, we are saying that access to missions is a bad choice.

The other point is that simply by having this system in place, it breaks up small groups of friends. Some want to leave to join big alliances, because thats the only way to get in, others want to remain in a small intimate setting. Early as it may be, I feel the effects of the design already.

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

05 May 2006 at 00:08 - 437

I'm too old and cynical in GW terms to believe AN will change anything as fundimental as that, even if proven broken by the community. Favor being a case in point. Can't play with friends from around the world, 2 entire regions being shut out for 5 months, the mechanism for gaining it being completly unreleated to a players ability or interest in one area.

dry sense of humor mode on
At least ch3 is only six months away, maybe they'll take things a step further and restrict 10 people to the game at a time. The others will be clicking login, gaining enough login points to be able to play the game.

But thats fine, AN can do what they like and after all, all those people have the chance to access the content of the game right.

dry sense of humor off

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:08 - 438

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

It is not a quirk of language.. it is maths. But don't bother, it is probably a subject you don't like anyway

. Or you might do so. I don't know.

Your example is a quirk of language, specifically the English language. Translate that joke into Japanese and it wouldn't make any sense, even though logic in Japanese is the same. And mathematics is one of my strong points, along with Computer Science.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:09 - 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I'm not bitching about bitches, I'm showing my support for ArenaNet and their designers' decisions about Guild Wars.

And ironically, our camp couldn't have a better example than yourself to illustrate how bad those decisions are.

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:10 - 440

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I'm not bitching about bitches, I'm showing my support for ArenaNet and their designers' decisions about Guild Wars.

You might want to go re-edit some of your posts then. At least the part where you quoted other people "bitching about bitches." Hmm, that sounds pretty deragotory.