To be honest the difficulty of aquiring access to Elite missions has been a bit over exagurated. You only need about 200 players in your entire Alliance and some organization, everyone gets 10,000 Luxon/Kurzick points and in one bang drops them all. That is, in about 10 seconds of real effort, 2,000,000 Alliance points... poof you just got control of the city and the elite missions. After all there is a point at which you cannot possibly maintain Alliance Point as the decay will be greater than anything you can possibly earn so Alliance spikes will always be possible.
Ten thousand faction is also not hard to attain, get your guild together and do some of those repeatable (some of which are fun) quests, do some 12vs12, and just go around and have fun, something is gring only if you make it so.
I will admit that 200 members is a bit much, but in a way it also isn't. Ten guilds of twenty who bind together in the name of Elite missions is enough. It all falls down to the question of do you really want it?
A good point was made before, if the elite missions were easily attainable by everyone then whats the point of calling them elite? Its much like rare skins, if they were everywhere they wouldn't be rare. Do people complain because 99% of the populus does not have a crystaline sword? Everything is a question of vanity, elite missions are no different.
So, uh. (Elite Missions)
Theos
xRustyx
This thread wins at the internet.
I agree with all the points mentioned.
I agree with all the points mentioned.
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dansamy
I am not sneering at disgruntled players. I am simply trying to point out that none of this is surprising given the type of game that Anet is promoting GW to be and is driving towards in their development efforts. As mentioned above, once you buy the T-ball equipment, you get to decide what to do with it. If you win a lot, there is a championship that not every team and every player gets to play. (All-Stars? Sound familiar?) You get the "regular season play" by buying your copy of Factions. You don't get the "playoffs" unless you earn it. |
What I'm saying, and what few Anet apologists want to address when I say it, is that this system they created is breaking apart the already small guilds many love.
Furthermore, I don't think any of us are saying there shouldn't be rewards for competetive play. What many of us are trying to say is that giving entire missions out as the reward is just a bad idea. Gold/silver cape trim, rank emotes, titles, your name on a town, fireworks, even special items, I would have no problem with any of those. Why couldn't they have done something reasonable?
Evilsod
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
To be honest the difficulty of aquiring access to Elite missions has been a bit over exagurated. You only need about 200 players in your entire Alliance and some organization, everyone gets 10,000 Luxon/Kurzick points and in one bang drops them all. That is, in about 10 seconds of real effort, 2,000,000 Alliance points... poof you just got control of the city and the elite missions. After all there is a point at which you cannot possibly maintain Alliance Point as the decay will be greater than anything you can possibly earn so Alliance spikes will always be possible.
|
When it comes to the favour, if i really wanted to have it, i would go do some PvP. But at the moment all the pugs i seem to join suck and my guild never has enough people online to do PvP, but this? I can't exactly do something about it if they're are too few people online can i. The way i see unless its made equally attainable by any alliance, people are just gonna stop playing. Why bother coming on at all if you know your gonna have nothing to do unless you join a massive Alliance thats usually in control?
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
Yeah I must admit I was confused by this at first. Then I realized that because they are technically 2 skills, I could have both on my skillbar at once. While maybe not the most practical, in some cases I have found good use for 2 of basically the same skill.
|
The reason that ANet might have wanted to make duplicate skills so that one appears in Ch1 and one appears in Ch2 is so that they can leave it out of Chapter 3 if they'd like. If they made them core, it'd have to be available for Chapter 3-only players as well. Obviously they didn't want that.
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Many people i know on GW don't want to be in guilds (or alliances) with huge numbers of people in them though. Hardly seems fair that the ones who play the game casually and/or would rather stick to groups of friends rather than 100s of random people don't get to access the decent PvE areas.
When it comes to the favour, if i really wanted to have it, i would go do some PvP. But at the moment all the pugs i seem to join suck and my guild never has enough people online to do PvP, but this? I can't exactly do something about it if they're are too few people online can i. The way i see unless its made equally attainable by any alliance, people are just gonna stop playing. Why bother coming on at all if you know your gonna have nothing to do unless you join a massive Alliance thats usually in control? |
Oh, and for you guys who haven't been to the Elite missions yet... they're damn worth it
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Drakar
Hardcore complains they want harder content. Anet give it to them, the casual complaint they can't access the content.
|
And you can be a casual player that is also skilled and able to play harder content, in case you didn't know.
Lasher Dragon
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Okay, this is a concept a lot of people have a hard time grasping because it deals with the future not the present.
The reason that ANet might have wanted to make duplicate skills so that one appears in Ch1 and one appears in Ch2 is so that they can leave it out of Chapter 3 if they'd like. If they made them core, it'd have to be available for Chapter 3-only players as well. Obviously they didn't want that. |
This is not an expansion. This is not an expansion. This is not an expansion.
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Can't go to the GWWC if your guild sucks, can't go to the Elite Missions if your alliance sucks.
|
The point has been made OVER AND OVER that you don't have to be good or "elite" to get to the missions, you just have to have a lot of players. Conversely, no matter how excellent you are at the game, you're not going to get there if your alliance is too small.
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
A good point was made before, if the elite missions were easily attainable by everyone then whats the point of calling them elite?
|
Theos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Many people i know on GW don't want to be in guilds (or alliances) with huge numbers of people in them though. Hardly seems fair that the ones who play the game casually and/or would rather stick to groups of friends rather than 100s of random people don't get to access the decent PvE areas.
When it comes to the favour, if i really wanted to have it, i would go do some PvP. But at the moment all the pugs i seem to join suck and my guild never has enough people online to do PvP, but this? I can't exactly do something about it if they're are too few people online can i. The way i see unless its made equally attainable by any alliance, people are just gonna stop playing. Why bother coming on at all if you know your gonna have nothing to do unless you join a massive Alliance thats usually in control? |
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Are you guys even reading the thread?
The point has been made OVER AND OVER that you don't have to be good or "elite" to get to the missions, you just have to have a lot of players. Conversely, no matter how excellent you are at the game, you're not going to get there if your alliance is too small. |
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
To be honest, by this logic I should complain because my guild can't get off its lazy ass to try to win GWWC. Should I complain for GWWC to be accesible by everyone who can click a target and hit space bar? I respect people's choice at how they wish to play, but we all must sacrifice something to get what we want other wise the game wouldn't be much fun to play. What is the point of a game if everything is served to you? It would be like playing Final Fantasy and starting off level 100 and at the end of the game.
|
I could see your point if I were sitting here saying, "I want Canthan 15K armor, but it's too hard to get there!! Please make Shiro easier to kill!!" But there is nothing preventing you from playing the way you like, and still beating Shiro if you have the skill.
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Hardly seems fair that the ones who play the game casually and/or would rather stick to groups of friends rather than 100s of random people don't get to access the decent PvE areas.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evilsod
who play the game casually and/or would rather stick to groups of friends.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evilsod
casually
|
Iskrah
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
To be honest, by this logic I should complain because my guild can't get off its lazy ass to try to win GWWC. Should I complain for GWWC to be accesible by everyone who can click a target and hit space bar? I respect people's choice at how they wish to play, but we all must sacrifice something to get what we want other wise the game wouldn't be much fun to play. What is the point of a game if everything is served to you? It would be like playing Final Fantasy and starting off level 100 and at the end of the game.
|
People want high level PvE enjoyable like SF, FoW or what's called UW², with it being open all the time.
It happens that they will never experience some of that content AND THAT FACTIONS GIVES WAY LESS THAN PROPHECIES. It's the point, globally.
You're not talking about owning some skin for your blade, or winning a prize in Korea, you're talking about an area becoming private to groups of 200 coordinated people.
Drakar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It's not a Casual Mission, it's an Elite Mission.
|
/clap
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Well, if you have 7 active players on your GvG guild you won't have a chance of getting to GWWC. If you have 8, you do have a chance.
|
Evilsod
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
To be honest, by this logic I should complain because my guild can't get off its lazy ass to try to win GWWC. Should I complain for GWWC to be accesible by everyone who can click a target and hit space bar? I respect people's choice at how they wish to play, but we all must sacrifice something to get what we want other wise the game wouldn't be much fun to play. What is the point of a game if everything is served to you? It would be like playing Final Fantasy and starting off level 100 and at the end of the game.
|
Derek, since when did Anet state that to get the full GW experience you must play the game 24/7? Casual players shouldn't lose out on anything just because they can't/don't come on as often. If we were rewarded for our /age (the 12month birthday present ok...) GW really would suck.
P.S. since when did you /age make you elite anyway? Just because you play alot doesn't make you any better than people who come on once a week.
Iskrah
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It's not a Casual Mission, it's an Elite Mission.
|
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
I respect people's choice at how they wish to play, but we all must sacrifice something to get what we want other wise the game wouldn't be much fun to play. What is the point of a game if everything is served to you? It would be like playing Final Fantasy and starting off level 100 and at the end of the game.
|
In a well-designed game, players wouldn't be required to have their fun decided based upon what happens within a scope that's 80 to 120 times the size of the basic playing unit these players have access to: the party. Except for the whole favor thing, Prophesies is such a well-designed game. Small teams of players can partake and succeed at every part of the game. Tiny guilds can excel at GvG, hold the HoH, play every damn quest and mission. All on the merit of their own skill and determination. That game seems over now and it's a damn shame.
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It's not a Casual Mission, it's an Elite Mission.
|
Why is it called 'elite?' It sounds like you're assuming it's because you have to be "elite" to get there (even though that's not much of a factor). Is it possible that it's called "elite" because it's very difficult, and only elite players can manage it? That's what I would have thought.
Iskrah
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Ok. I could just say it's called Elite Mission, not Massive Grind Reward Mission. What is your point? Are you saying players who play casually with friends also can't be good at the game and "elite?"
Why is it called 'elite?' It sounds like you're assuming it's because you have to be "elite" to get there (even though that's not much of a factor). Is it possible that it's called "elite" because it's very difficult, and only elite players can manage it? That's what I would have thought. |
You can get an infinite amount of points with henchies being successful in repeatable quests giving them. It's all about who plays them the more often, not who's the best at it. Which is EXACTLY THE CONTRARY OF WHAT ANET ADVERTISES. Duh. Time over skill.
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Iskrah
Makes you feel Elite? Go buy a cologne or something. There is nothing elite in farming factions. Nothing. Being "elite" in PvE would be more like achieving really hard missions with a limited number of characters, or finding builds...
|
IRC explains my point:
[16:04:28] <[none]Thomas`> the pve 'babies' need to realise that they probably couldnt even do these missions if they did unlock them
[16:04:30] <[none]Thomas`> tbh :/
[16:04:40] <[none]Thomas`> then they would bitch that it's too hard
UndeadRoadkill
Did someone change the definition of "casual" to unskilled? Is that what the problem is? Why these people act like we're talking about skill level when we're talking about style of play?
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
IRC explains my point:
[16:04:28] <[none]Thomas`> the pve 'babies' need to realise that they probably couldnt even do these missions if they did unlock them [16:04:30] <[none]Thomas`> tbh :/ [16:04:40] <[none]Thomas`> then they would bitch that it's too hard |
MelechRic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
A good point was made before, if the elite missions were easily attainable by everyone then whats the point of calling them elite? Its much like rare skins, if they were everywhere they wouldn't be rare. Do people complain because 99% of the populus does not have a crystaline sword? Everything is a question of vanity, elite missions are no different.
|
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Ok. I could just say it's called Elite Mission, not Massive Grind Reward Mission. What is your point? Are you saying players who play casually with friends also can't be good at the game and "elite?"
Why is it called 'elite?' It sounds like you're assuming it's because you have to be "elite" to get there (even though that's not much of a factor). Is it possible that it's called "elite" because it's very difficult, and only elite players can manage it? That's what I would have thought. |
It is called Elite because you have to be Elite to get past the first room, even. I said it's not called a Casual Mission because I don't feel casual players should necessarily play, because like Thomas said, then people would say that it's too hard, and complain even more about it. I like how it is now, in every sense.
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It is called Elite because you have to be Elite to get past the first room, even. I said it's not called a Casual Mission because I don't feel casual players should necessarily play, because like Thomas said, then people would say that it's too hard, and complain even more about it. I like how it is now, in every sense. |
Nominal_Fee
n. pl. elite or e·lites
What's all this whining about ? They are called ELITE mission, not "Every two-man noob guild member can enter" missions
- A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: “In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them” (Times Literary Supplement).
- The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.
What's all this whining about ? They are called ELITE mission, not "Every two-man noob guild member can enter" missions
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Did someone change the definition of "casual" to unskilled? Is that what the problem is? Why these people act like we're talking about skill level when we're talking about style of play?
|
Things like voice communication, the ability to create/function in a twelve man group, knowing how to pull, knowing when to flee, etc., are all vital to even getting past the first room. I don't think they should waste their time letting players who don't fit into this category into the mission, it'd be a waste of the players' times, at which point they would complain.
MelechRic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It's for elite players, not casual players.
|
Theos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Or, you could say that an elite mission is one that's hard to complete without an eilite level of play. Seems like before the days of 55/SV teams the FoW/UW fit this description. Elite doesn't have to mean that you have to be an elite faction farmer unless we go by your definition.
|
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Like I said, did someone change the definition of "casual" to unskilled? That is complete and baseless assumption on the part of you and this Thomas genius.
|
MelechRic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nominal_Fee
n. pl. elite or e·lites
What's all this whining about ? They are called ELITE mission, not "Every two-man noob guild member can enter" missions |
Pandora's box
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It's not a Casual Mission, it's an Elite Mission.
|
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nominal_Fee
n. pl. elite or e·lites
What's all this whining about ? They are called ELITE mission, not "Every two-man noob guild member can enter" missions |
Perhaps could they be called elite missions because you need to be elite to succeed? Why deny access to it? You don't have to be elite to get there. You have made no point.
MelechRic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Theos
UW/FoW were never hard and beyond the mindblades the areas were rather easy given coordination. I see no reason to call them elite, they were simply harder than normal dungeons for the end-game. The elite missions are nothing like them, infact they dwarf them significantly.
|
UndeadRoadkill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
All reading requires assumptions, or to be more precise, inferences; it's part of how language works.
|
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Sadly, nothing that got you into this mission has proven you to be an elite player. You played through the game just like a casual player would only you did it in 2 days and not a week. (Probably by playing 14-16 hour marathon sessions.) Then you farmed faction like any casual player could go by doing quests or 12v12. All you really proved was that you were in a big guild that was in a big alliance. Not very elite, but very elitist sounding.
|
Also, did you read my other posts, or just that one?
Derek Ravenclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Oh, it requires baseless assumptions, too? Shit, I've been doing reading wrong! I guess my reading is just not "elite" enough.
|