So, uh. (Elite Missions) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:23 - 361

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Perhaps could they be called elite missions because you need to be elite to succeed? Why deny access to it? You don't have to be elite to get there. You have made no point.

Yeah but do that and you'll have the whiney 'why doesn't this sword sell for 1000ecto' elitists complaining.

Nominal_Fee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:23 - 362

Based on how they work, you can assume that you have to be an "elite" player to enter. "Elite Mission" sounds better than "Mission For Members Of Really Good Guilds"

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

04 May 2006 at 23:24 - 363

Sorry guys, but PvP elitism has infected PvE. Reading back over some of these comments shows extreme arrogance and ego imho. Why not let people try, sure they will fail 1000 times and whinge but they will get better which is entirely the point.

When I started playing THK was regarded as a monster, it took people days of trying, people refused to go anywhere near mindblades and vengeful aatxxes were just left alone.

But people tried, they learned and they got better and enjoyed themselves more for it.

People play GAMES to have fun, not to grind for hours a time(well maybe obsessive compulsives fall in love with grind), play politics or boast how 'leet' they are.

Do I want to go on an 'elite' mission, sure I do. Will I die and screw things up a couple of times. Yeah probably. But I'd get better.

AN by denying people this fun and forcing people to grind, play politics and encourage delusions of grandeur will completley wreck the good will of so many people in the game. We can't change the mechanism yet, but those who hold the towns can continue to offer free passage to those who wish to have fun, make new friends and be better players.

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:24 - 364

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

UW/FoW were never hard and beyond the mindblades the areas were rather easy given coordination. I see no reason to call them elite, they were simply harder than normal dungeons for the end-game. The elite missions are nothing like them, infact they dwarf them significantly.

Why is access to them exclusive? Why aren't we free to fail miserably as much as we want?

Theos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

River Dancing

Eternal Treachery [TimE]

Me/E

04 May 2006 at 23:24 - 365

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Okay, so these new ones are hard to complete. Cool, I'll take your word for it. So what was so elite about you getting into them? You are elite if you complete them, but not elite by getting into them. You're just a member of a big guild and big alliance that farmed a lot of faction.

You assume to much, I am not saying I am elite in anyway. My entrance into the area was pure luck and me doing it again won't happen for a while. My guild is small, the alliance also small. You also tinker with insulting me with your assumptions.

I was simply pointing out the difference between UW/FoW and these new missions. I am also not in full support of the mechanic to aquiring control of the elite missions but I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:28 - 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nominal_Fee

Based on how they work, you can assume that you have to be an "elite" player to enter.

Yes, it's funny how that turns out to be an incorrect assumption.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:28 - 367

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Sorry guys, but PvP elitism has infected PvE. Reading back over some of these comments shows extreme arrogance and ego imho. Why not let people try, sure they will fail 1000 times and whinge but they will get better which is entirely the point.

No they won't. Most low-level GvG guilds have been low-level GvG guilds since Ch1 release. It's rare that people get better by failing, in Guild Wars, which is evident in the low number of high-level GvG guilds; most people quit when they fail, then bitch about it on some random forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Do I want to go on an 'elite' mission, sure I do. Will I die and screw things up a couple of times. Yeah probably. But I'd get better.

Go talk to someone in the top alliance then, and see if they'll let you and their friends in the Elite Mission. That's how I did it, again, I'm not in a guild that even has an alliance, and I played Elite Missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

We can't change the mechanism yet, but those who hold the towns can continue to offer free passage to those who wish to have fun, make new friends and be better players.

This works fine as it is now, and is an actual reward for the guilds that hold top. Seriously, all people do is complain about grind; name me a game that the top position can't be considered held by grind.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:29 - 368

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

I was simply pointing out the difference between UW/FoW and these new missions. I am also not in full support of the mechanic to aquiring control of the elite missions but I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

Definitely. If people have a problem with it as it is now, come up with a better system other than OMG GIVE IT TO EVERYONE! like people were complaining about the Worlds At War system.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:29 - 369

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I took Casual to mean a player that isn't necessarily unskilled, but inexperienced when it comes to the things required to get past the first room in the Elite mission.

Things like voice communication, the ability to create/function in a twelve man group, knowing how to pull, knowing when to flee, etc., are all vital to even getting past the first room. I don't think they should waste their time letting players who don't fit into this category into the mission, it'd be a waste of the players' times, at which point they would complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I like to say that I proved that I earned my way into the elite mission by being recognized as a competant player by the team that was organizing for the mission, and I think I further proved this by being on the team that made it most of the way through the mission, further than anyone else has gotten, so far.

Oh man, after that first post I quoted you're telling usyou didn't even finish the mission? Obviously none of you had what it takes then, you're not the elite crowd this mission was designed for. ANet, quick, find out who these players are and restrict their continued access to that mission before one of them starts complaining about it on the internet!

Really...

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:30 - 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Why is access to them exclusive? Why aren't we free to fail miserably as much as we want?

To give the top alliances SOMETHING, maybe? I'd rather have this than like in other games where the top clans get to tax the cities and such. This doesn't impede my gaming, and yet offers something to the top alliances.

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 23:30 - 371

Whatever, my point remains:

Open this mission to the public? they will cry about difficulty. Really...

This is one for those people that know HOW to play the game, and preferbly those with some PvP experience, and that's saying it the nice way.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted post.

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:31 - 372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

There's nothing wrong with that. I didn't whine about how hard Thunderhead was when I didn't beat it, or complain that not beating it kept me out of other missions. I worked at it until I got good enough to beat it.

There was no one standing outside of Thunderhead saying I couldn't even try it until I joined a bigger guild.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:31 - 373

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

vtrajan

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

N/A

Mo/E

04 May 2006 at 23:31 - 374

There are approximately 13 missions, several competitive missions, and a few cooperative missions.
That amounts up to almost 20 missions that a "casual" player can access.
There are 2 Elite Missions, essentially one since you choose a faction side.

Do you cry to your mother when she doesn't give you the full cookie jar?

Quote:

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

Exactly.
Knowledge of the enemy AI. Knowledge of builds. Knowledge of what skills work in what situations. Knowledge of the math behind attributes and the numerical damage outcome of skills.

Can you spend 5 hours a week playing this game and tell me what the adrenal scale for warrior skills is like? Do I need to cite further references?

None of us have complained about the difficulty. We -love- it. Several of us don't like it, but most of us that were there had a GREAT time. we would love to do it again.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:31 - 375

So far two people discussing in this thread, have actually played the mission(s).

Why do have the "elite" missions to be only the toy of guilds with enough members? To laugh in the other players faces? We can play this mission you can't!

Imo those elite mission --> Time > Skill + Fun

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:32 - 376

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Oh man, after that first post I quoted you're telling usyou didn't even finish the mission? Obviously none of you had what it takes then, you're not the elite crowd this mission was designed for. ANet, quick, find out who these players are and restrict their continued access to that mission before one of them starts complaining about it on the internet!

Really...

Obviously we weren't elite enough to beat the mission, but we were elite enough to get further than anyone else. This mission was not intended to be completed by any group, and even we recognize that obviously we need to improve to be elite enough to beat the mission. And right now we don't have access to it because the alliance that I was going in with doesn't hold HzH anymore. You don't hear me bitching because I can't go back in anytime, do you?

People complain either way, the system works fine as it is, leave it.

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:33 - 377

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

To give the top alliances SOMETHING, maybe? I'd rather have this than like in other games where the top clans get to tax the cities and such. This doesn't impede my gaming, and yet offers something to the top alliances.

Read some post I made a page or two back. I say there is nothing wrong with rewarding alliances.

What we are trying to say is that having access to missions as an exclusive reward is a bad idea.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:33 - 378

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Do you cry to your mother when she doesn't give you the full cookie jar?

If I had bought the cookie jar? Yes. Why shouldn't I have access to something I have payed for? Especially with CE ?

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

04 May 2006 at 23:33 - 379

Elite does not equal being able amass large amounts of faction. It means you can get a big group together.

Elite Missions, at least, should be called 'Alliance Missions', because that's what they really are.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 23:35 - 380

Things are getting clearer. The pro-elitism are now talking about "noobs", about how "they would not be able to get past the first group of mob anyway" and how them "playing would be a waste of time anyway".

That's the kind of crap mentality that game is infested with. When the kid is 12 years old, I can understand such asocial nonsense, but if the person has any experience of organized sport, education or any experience in life for the matter, he would know that losing doesn't mean a waste of time.

Michael Jordan once said that nobody missed more shots than him. It's true. And that's because he kept missing and missing and missing that he finally started hitting them more than anyone.

Some should think about it here. Just talking in general, about mentality, elitism and competition. Because they may know how to farm factions, but they sure don't know how to really get better at anything when they're despising people failing.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:35 - 381

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

Obviously you're just grinding, then. I play quite a bit, and I never grind. In fact, I have a measly 500k in all of my accounts, without any 15k or anything. This 500k has just been building up since a year ago without being touched. There are plenty of ventures in this game that'd allow you to improve without grinding.

I'm not "too elitist" to play with these players, but I sure as hell aren't going to take them into an Elite Mission. It's not for them.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:36 - 382

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

There are approximately 13 missions, several competitive missions, and a few cooperative missions.
That amounts up to almost 20 missions that a "casual" player can access.
There are 2 Elite Missions, essentially one since you choose a faction side.

Do you cry to your mother when she doesn't give you the full cookie jar?

Seriously, even the top alliance can only get into ONE of the TWO elite missions. They sure as hell aren't complaining, and yes, the two missions ARE different. Quite a bit, actually.

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 23:36 - 383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

It's been said before the mission can't be done by this kind of player. Just leave it man. I'm with Derek, your all whining about something most would never have a chance at completing anyway.

It requires planning, a solid team build, (A LOT more solid than UW/FoW/Tyria), and most important voice comms.

Pug's cant do this, especially the majority of players that are whining about it: can't do it.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:36 - 384

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Obviously we weren't elite enough to beat the mission, but we were elite enough to get further than anyone else. This mission was not intended to be completed by any group, and even we recognize that obviously we need to improve to be elite enough to beat the mission. And right now we don't have access to it because the alliance that I was going in with doesn't hold HzH anymore. You don't hear me bitching because I can't go back in anytime, do you?

Thats just not good enough, you failed. Along with the other members of the 'elite' alliances. You've lost your chance, you are no longer deemed worthy to enter that place now stand aside and let the casual 'noobs' have a go. I'm sure they'll laugh in your face when they beat the area, get a few rare skin items and come out the other side having had a good time doing so.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:37 - 385

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I'm not "too elitist" to play with these players, but I sure as hell aren't going to take them into an Elite Mission. It's not for them.

Who are you to deceide this? Derek.. ah just grow up.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:37 - 386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

So far two people discussing in this thread, have actually played the mission(s).

Why do have the "elite" missions to be only the toy of guilds with enough members? To laugh in the other players faces? We can play this mission you can't!

Imo those elite mission --> Time > Skill + Fun

Read my posts again. I'm not in any Alliance at all. I just play with friends, and have asked people who control HzH to play the Elite Mission, and they let me because they recognize me. They aren't just toys of guilds with enough members, because my guild sure as hell doesn't have more than eight active members.

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

04 May 2006 at 23:38 - 387

GvG and PvE are very very different, you can't compare. People look up to GvG because it's promoted and on GW-TV every minute of the day. Totally different mindset and skills are required.

I'm glad they allowed people to guest to get in. That at least is something. I really, really hope holding alliances continue to allow people to guest for free.

I thought about asking a few people, just to see what it's like. But I dont think i'm 'leet' enough to get in.

Re: Grind, the whole ethos of GW was it's skill not hours played. That claim has now been proven totally wrong

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 23:38 - 388

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

Pug's cant do this, especially the majority of players that are whining about it: can't do it.

WTF you think you are kid? I never play without voice comm and do whatever you want in what i'm given access to. WTF are you saying?

UndeadRoadkill

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 May 2006 at 23:38 - 389

The difficulty of a mission is not a justifier for restricting access. You'd have to be trolling for arguments to make such an assertion.

vtrajan

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

N/A

Mo/E

04 May 2006 at 23:39 - 390

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

If I had bought the cookie jar? Yes. Why shouldn't I have access to something I have payed for? Especially with CE ?

You did not buy the access to it. You bought the content for the storyline of Chapter2. The elite mission is a reward to those who go that extra mile and are the top alliance. If anything you've simply bought the 'option' or 'ability' to compete for the elite mission.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

04 May 2006 at 23:39 - 391

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas:<

It's been said before the mission can't be done by this kind of player. Just leave it man. I'm with Derek, your all whining about something most would never have a chance at completing anyway.

It requires planning, a solid team build, (A LOT more solid than UW/FoW/Tyria), and most important voice comms.

Really, the game has been out barely a week and your already certain that this area can't be beaten without been a total geek? Perhaps you just suck too much to complete it? Of course we'll never know, all the people with the 'honour' of getting to repeat the mission over and over till they crack it can go and act smug at the people who've only ever had 2 chances to enter it. 1 of them while they happened to be busy that afternoon.... yeah sounds like a real fun game.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:40 - 392

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

Who are you to deceide this? Derek.. ah just grow up.

Who am I to "deceide" this? It doesn't matter who I am. I was presented enough information to know that they're not good enough for an Elite Mission.

People who are saying I'm elitist, go ahead, it doesn't bother me a bit.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

04 May 2006 at 23:41 - 393

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

You bought the content for the storyline of Chapter2.

Aren't the elite missions part of it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I was presented enough information to know that they're not good enough for an Elite Mission.

You know you are talking about 95 % of the players of GW ?

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 23:42 - 394

You don't need skill to try the mission.
You need time. More than enough time for ANet to ask you to "please take a break".

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted quote.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:43 - 395

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

The difficulty of a mission is not a justifier for restricting access. You'd have to be trolling for arguments to make such an assertion.

Okay, here's a better argument: It's ArenaNet's game. They determined that only the top Alliance and people they take to the Elite Mission can have access. No arguing with that, they're the game designers. Hell, if you come up with 15 game designers who all disagree with ArenaNet's stance, I'll be very impressed. Even if none of them have the resume or experience of some of ArenaNet's top designers like Mike O'Brien.

vtrajan

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

N/A

Mo/E

04 May 2006 at 23:43 - 396

No, the elite missions are not part of the storyline and are in no way related to it as I understand it.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:44 - 397

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

You did not buy the access to it. You bought the content for the storyline of Chapter2. The elite mission is a reward to those who go that extra mile and are the top alliance. If anything you've simply bought the 'option' or 'ability' to compete for the elite mission.

Yup. Hell, you didn't pay for Sorrow's Furnace, it came free, so call it even if you'd like. You don't get access to something that at the most will last 5 hours if you complete it because you're not in the right alliance or friends with the right alliance, but you do get access for something that'd take ten times that amount of time to complete in entirety.

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

04 May 2006 at 23:44 - 398

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

Okay, here's a better argument: It's ArenaNet's game. They determined that only the top Alliance and people they take to the Elite Mission can have access. No arguing with that, they're the game designers. Hell, if you come up with 15 game designers who all disagree with ArenaNet's stance, I'll be very impressed. Even if none of them have the resume or experience of some of ArenaNet's top designers like Mike O'Brien.

50 bucks paid on the assumption that the game was "skill over time" and that massive grouped grinding was not the end-all be-all of the game, is disagreeing with you.

Thomas:<

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

04 May 2006 at 23:45 - 399

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Really, the game has been out barely a week and your already certain that this area can't be beaten without been a total geek? Perhaps you just suck too much to complete it? Of course we'll never know, all the people with the 'honour' of getting to repeat the mission over and over till they crack it can go and act smug at the people who've only ever had 2 chances to enter it. 1 of them while they happened to be busy that afternoon.... yeah sounds like a real fun game.

I never said you have to be a total geek, you just have to know how to play video games at a med-high level, nothing more.

And also.. When did I say I couldn't do it?

*sigh* PvE is depressing :\.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 May 2006 at 23:45 - 400

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack

Aren't the elite missions part of it?

The actual Elite Missions don't even take place on the Canthan map as presented, so I'd say no.