Various suggestions to improve Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry

Reference Threads:
08-20-2006 | Curse You | Jade Quarry in need of a fix
08-10-2006 | Miss Innocent | Can we PLEASE let PvP characters into the PvP missions in Cantha?
07-25-2006 | Ira Blinks | Aspenwood improvements (not about leechers)
07-24-2006 | Konrow | PvP Access to Aspenwood
07-19-2006 | Raiin Maker | How to stop AFK Faction Leeching.
07-21-2006 | Skuld | Do something about Aspenwood end cutscene..
06-16-2006 | RTSFirebat | The Improved Jade Quarry
06-15-2006 | Mr Wolfmaster | Fort aspenwood/jade quarry cinima
06-13-2006 | Kaldor Meshekal | Jade Quarry Update
06-12-2006 | beanerman_99 | Increase Faction reward at Jade Quarry
06-12-2006 | unknown1 | AFkers in Fort aspenwood
06-09-2006 | Lordhelmos | Petition for a Rewards System in Aspenwood and Jade Quarry Missions.
05-31-2006 | Maria The Princess | new Title: The Quitter
06-08-2006 | lansid_drakken | They have anti-farm code, now what about anti-quit and anti-leech code?
06-03-2006 | AlyssaMarcia | longer ignore list
05-18-2006 | Zubey | Make Aspenwood/Quarry rewards dynamic
06-05-2006| Im Perfect U Aint | fort aspenwood!!
05-07-2006 | Tuoba Hturt Eht | L.Totems, I.Commendation, M.Credits, E.Requisition for SKILLS, SOC, FACTIONS
06-04-2006 | generik | Giving totems/requisitions for victories in Fort Asphenwood and other battles?
06-01-2006 | Aerial Stormshadow | Anet, please listen (closed thread)
05-30-2006 | TheOneAndOnlyX | Taking this personal?
05-29-2006 | Unkillable Cat | New leech bot
05-30-2006 | Allmightybob | Permament Death Exploit in Fort Aspenwood
05-25-2006 | Vermilion Okeanos | Need an official word.
05-21-2006 | Ira Blinks | [Petition] Remove faction reward for the losing side in Aspenwood
05-23-2006 | Ira Blinks | Official response to leechers problem.
05-23-2006 | X God Of Fire X | fort aspenwood vs. jade quarry
05-29-2006 | Sai Rith | Improve Fort Aspenwood!!!!!!
05-22-2006 | X God Of Fire X | why not jade quarry?
05-23-2006 | Esprit | Jade Quarry - Where are all the players?
05-21-2006 | Ken Dei | Those with complaints work together...

Commentary:
An issue regarding Jade Quarry was brought up recently, check the first link in the list of reference threads for more detailed information.

PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!

Currently, the known issues with these mission are:
- let us skip the cutscene if we click "skip", the others still can watch
(cutscene seems to cease to exist, I am unsure of when this happened, but THANK YOU ANET!)
- pathetic faction reward awarded at end of battle
(rewards improved with 15th June Update, THANK YOU ANET)
(THANK YOU ANET for the double factions weekend!)
- serious issue of leechers aka AFKers
- permanent death exploit using Unyielding Aura (EXPLOIT FIXED, THANK YOU ANET)
- somewhat serious issue of quiters, aka sabotuers


Various Suggestions to Improve Jade Quarry (by Curse You)
=================================
Corpse Teleportation Exploit
- some NPCs killed near the base
- necromancer uses Necrotic Transversal / Consume Corpse to exit the base prematurely

Suggested Fix:
- make the NPCs invunerable
- move the NPCs
- "blackout" all players until the game starts.
- make the NPCs spawn a few seconds after the match begins.

Quarries have no healing
- single ranger with the Elite Barrage is able to kill the entire quarry without taking any damage
- just sit up on the cliff and shoot away

Suggested Fix:
- add a SINGLE NPC monk to each Quarry
- ranger would also have to use interupts to prevent the monk from being effective

Jade Carriers
- quarries will spawn a Jade carrier (Turtle or Juggernaught)
- they will proceed to transport jade
- when the Quarry is claimed by the opposing side
- they will return to the corresponding base.
- when the quarry is reclaimed
- the carrier will then have to walk all the way to the mine
- then back to claim the jade
- this causes them to take twice as long

Suggested Fix:
- could be fixed by "teleporting" the carrier to the Quarry when it is reclaimed
- it may be odd, but then again, they do appear out of nowhere at the start

Jade Carriers getting stuck
- have heard of the Jade carriers sometimes getting stuck
- they cannot continue to collect Jade.

Suggested Fix:
- redo the pathing
- consider previous idea

Sites too easy to claim
- Quarries and Guard posts seem rather easy to take over
- just have to kill all the NPCs, and it's yours

Suggested Fix:
- could be fixed by making the posts captured in a similar way to the ones in Alliance Battles
- only if you out number them, you can keep/take the outpost


Various Suggested Ideas to improve both Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry
================================================== ======
0. The Ban List (by GrendelScout1)
Refer the example for an idea of how this would work:
1. John know Mary is a leecher, AFKer
2. John adds Mary to his Ban List
3. John clicks "Enter Mission" in any random arenas
4. John will never be placed in the same team with Mary

5. Other players who did not add Mary to their Ban List could be teamed up with Mary

6. Friends of John who know and trust his judgement also place Mary in thier respective Ban Lists.
7. John and his friends live happily ever after.

1. Significantly increase faction rewards earned in these Missions.
At the moment, faction rewards offered at the end of these missions are simply not worth their time. Please increase the faction rewards, significantly.

1a. Equipment Requisitions, Luxon Totems as rewards (by generik)
Besides the Kurzick / Luxon Faction earned, also hand out rewards to the victorious team.

1b. Make Rewards Dynamic (by Zubey)
Dynamically adjust the faction awards for these two missions in one of the following ways:

A) Have the less-popular one increment its winner's award for each minute it's idle. e.g. If there hasn't been a battle for five minutes, the award goes up 100 points.

B) Have an NPC in each staging area make periodic announcements like "The [Luxons/Kurzicks] are beating us back at [the quarry/Fort Aspenwood]! The Council of [Elders/Nobles] has asked for help there". The NPC is essentially announcing which mission will give bonus faction for a period of time -- the game could assign this randomly or dynamically based on use.

1c. Individual actions add up to total team faction rewards awarded at end of battle
NPC kills, PC kills, point captures, any of these actions performed by anyone of the 8 members in the team will add up to the total factions awarded at the end of the battle.
Individual actions such as these:
- time used to complete mission (higher score for faster completion)
- non player characters killed
- player characters killed
- damage done to target foes (spike, degen)
- target other allies health healed (regen)
- gate repairs done
- target other allies' damage reduced (protection monks and spirits)
- etc
will help add up to the total amount of Kurzick / Luxon faction awarded at the end of the battle.

2. Allow PvP-only characters to participate in these Missions
Barring access to PvP-only characters to maps that are competitive in nature does not seem justified. Please allow access for PvP-only characters and these missions might actually be much much more populated.
(PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!)

2a. Allow these outposts to be account-unlockable (suggested by AhuraMazda)
Once a character has reached these outposts, it will be unlocked and access will be available for their PvP only characters.
(PvP-only characters are now able to enter these missions, THANK YOU ANET!)

3. Remove the "Random Arena" concept of these competitive missions, replace with "compulsary enter mission in teams of 4 players" like the current way Alliance Battles work
Why this? Recently I saw a thread with a heated arguement regarding this issue. I believe this implementation would resolve the issue of leechers or AFKers (people who join the mission but do nothing) in these competitive missions.

Why teams of 4 and not teams of 8? Well, if it is to be teams of 8, the time required to form a team might be longer. Forming teams of 4 ought to be much quicker.

If the leechers still dare to join in as a team of 4 leechers or AFKers, I believe ANET will need to revise the Rules of Conduct and allow us to report these leechers or AFKers.

NOTE: Party screen will show all 8 players.

4. Amend the Rules of Conduct, allow us to report the repeating offenders
If we keep seeing the same AFKers over and over again in these maps, I believe we must be given the right to report these players who are ruining the gaming experience of other players.

4a. Quiters must be dealt with
Here's a story:
1. Jack is a Kurzick, who frequently plays in the Fort Aspenwood competitive mission
2. Jack is not happy that his Kurzick team gets defeated by the Luxon team every time

3. Jack decides to sabotage the Luxon team
4. Jack travels to Luxon's Fort Aspenwood
5. Jack clicks Enter Mission

6. Jack quits before the battle has even started
7. Jack continues to this for many times

Now here comes the questions:
1. Is Jack be allowed to do this?

But, it is a known fact that, there is no real solution to this problem of quiters.

5. Allow players to skip the cinematic
1. We won the battle
2. The cinematic starts
3. I press "Skip" button
4. The cinematic is skipped
5. I get zoned back into Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry

Please implement this, ANET.

(cinematics seems to cease to exist, THANK YOU ANET)

=================

Discuss.

/notsigned

I raised 16k faction over FPE (wasted 10k on amber, to which i gave away anyway) most of it was from doing competitive missions for Kurzick, namely Jade Quarry.

I would like to see the amount of faction raised... but you're getting about the same amount as if you were doing RA, except the battle is naturally much longer.

Give this game another week or to, as hundreds of people have already stated, give it time and the places will fill up eventually.

/kinda signed
I'd like to use pvp chars with this. Haven't done this in retail, but I did this in the beta and wanted to use a pvp char.

Regarding "Jade Quarry",

I've managed to try it out just now, sure I had fun, but the factions awarded at the end of the battle was extremely unsatisfactory.

The battle ended roughly after 5 minutes, I was on the Kurzick team, Luxons won 10 : 2, or 3, I can't remember.

The Luxon players was awarded 300 Luxon factions, while the Kurzick players who lost the battle was only awarded 60 Kurzick factions.

5 minutes for 300 faction if I win the battle?
This is not enough for me.

I suggest that individual factions be awarded for players who scored kills, who helped captured a strategic point, and a team faction awarded to the whole team at the end of the battle.

For example:
(numbers used as reference, subject to change)
Indiviual Faction rewards:
- 5 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick NPC killed
- 10 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick PC killed
- 15 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon Turtle / Kurzick Juggernaught killed
- 20 Kurick / Luxon faction for each Luxon / Kurzick strategic point you helped to capture



The above ideas might as well be implemented into the 12 vs 12 Alliance Battles too.

/signed for:

PvP Characters must have access to Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry to make it more lively and useful.
Rewards up it a little. This way people don't just flock in the Alliance Battles. These two towns are good and right now its empty most of the time.

PvP characters access to those areas /signed

I don't know how much faction is received because I haven't had a chance to try these places out due to lack of players. But a definite sign for the pvp characters having access.

You can access Alliance battles with a PVP character IF your guild/alliance has declared support for one of the Factions.

My guild has just aligned with Luxon, so now I just talk to the Luxon ambassador in our guild hall and she takes my PVP character to an Alliance battle.

Now the drawback, it doesn't seem like she lets you choose what area to go. She just picks one. Maybe she figures out which one needs more players? Like if Aspenwood has more Kurzick players than she's likely to send Luxon people there? Dunno

She kept sending me to Saltspray something-or-other. Which didn't bother me (except that I'm not overly fond of the map) but it could be an issue if you are trying to meet up with a friend for Alliance battles. I suppose you could always group up in the guild hall and THEN talk to the ambassador to travel as a group...

Those are alliance battles. This is different.

Need some more information, is it confirmed that PvP can or can not access Alliance Missions. If yes, all of them or only random ones, or only Saltspray.

/signed.

600 faction on a win seems to be a bit low compared to other means which are also more reliable (quests always guarantee you a "win")

Also, I don't see a reason why a PvP char shouldn't have access there. Personally I never use PvP chars for anything, but I can see that people would like to bring them there.

Original post edited and updated.
Polls now broken down into 3 separate polls.
Cast your votes again! Rwar!

Reply to question regarding PvP only characters and Alliance Battles:
PvP only characters can join Alliance Battles through their Guild Halls.
However, the Guild Leader must pleadge allegience to either Kurzick or Luxon side first before that is allowed.

About the following 4 competitive missions:
- Fort Aspenwood (Kurzick)
- Fort Aspenwood (Luxon)
- Jade Quarry (Kurzick)
- Jade Quarry (Luxon)

To my knowledge, PvP only characters have no means of accessing the above 4 "Competitive Missions", ever.

I consider this a broken feature, since PvP only characters are supposed to be able to participate in "Competitive Missions".

My apologies... I thought that Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry WERE alliance battles, like Saltspray...
So, if I was mistaken, disregard my previous post.

So I have to ask... what exactly are Aspenwood and Jade Quarry if they aren't like other Alliance battles??

In reply to MasterDinadan's question:

Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "8 vs 8 random arenas with team objectives"

Random Arena, because you cannot decide who your team mates are.
Team objectives, because there are objectives you need to acomplish in order to win the battle.

The objectives mostly involve
- capturing strategic points in the map
- killing an important NPC
- defending an important NPC
- etc

Then
/not signed

I like the aspect that all the characters in those missions are RolePlay and not cookie cutter builds or FoTM.

This, I can understand.

But the fact remains that both Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are considered as "Competitive Missions".
PvP only characters are supposed to be able to participate in all forms of "Competitive Missions", not just the ones limited to the Battle Isles.


Well, not all PvP only characters are necessarily cookie cutter or Flavour of the Month builds.
In fact, what's stopping roleplaying characters from using cooking cutter or Flavour of the Month builds?

My feelings are kind of mixed now.

I don't like that you can earn faction on PVP characters and then spend it on items for RP characters. I don't think playing a PVP character should give your RP character any kind of advantage...

But that's already happening with Alliance battles, so I don't see much harm in letting them play competitive missions... As long as there aren't any transferable rewards (like gold... experience is obviously excusable)


Obviously, there are people who like the idea of a PVP environment existing solely for RP characters, to avoid cookie-cutter builds and the like (it would be harder to find a blood spike group for example if every player that was participating actually had to get an RP necro to level 20 and find all the runes and such... instead of just spending some faction for the necessary stuff and then rolling a PVP char with little effort)
Maybe they should just add "RP Districts" to all existing PVP and competitive missions, so players who wished to play in an RP only environment could do so. Of course, PVP and RP characters would still have access to regular districts, so people can take their RP characters into battle with or against PVP players if they still want to...

Have you ever been to the Temple of Ages?


I'll sign off on #1, I'd like to see a bit larger rewards if I'm going to put my time into this game, otherwise I'll just 12v12 all day. Not signed on #2. PvP characters with perfect weapons up against RP characters does not sound fun at all.

to explain the Alliance Battles.
Alliance Battle is the PvP Arena (if you want to call it that) which can't be teleported to from the map and is only accessible via a guild's guild hall.
The maps chosen depends on one factor, the current position of the "borderline". Press 'M' and you will see the position of the borderline.

There are an estimated 7-11 Alliance Battle Maps. 1 Neutral which is Saltspray Beach and the rest equally divided between the two sides (Kurzicks and Luxons).

Alliance Battle is accessible for PvP-only characters while
Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry aren't.

And again /sign that the PvP Characters must be able to access Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, that way it won't be a ghost town.

^_^ Hope that helps clear what Alliance Battle is vs Fort Aspenwood & Jade Quarry

/signed

I can't sign for this one because from what I understand about PvP (I don't enjoy that side of the game), allowing PvP only characters into PvE missions will unbalance the competitive game.

PvP characters come with maxed out gear, PvEers still have to hunt around for it (something I enjoy doing). Pitting PvP only against PvE without freely giving them the max gear (at least for the mission) would give the PvP only characters an advantage... at least in my understanding of it. - Which is also why I understand (or have heard as an explanation) the increased drops - so everyone has a beter chance at balanced competition.

If that's not how it works, ignore me.

If those missions were popular during the FPE and not now, I would guess that it was because:

1) everyone wanted to see what they were about
2) there wasn't much else to do (I ran into this)

And for them being empty now:

1) few have gotten there yet (possible)
2) players are trying to get the best gear possible to have an advantage (see above reason to not sign).

Since when Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are "Pve missions"?
They are "Competitive Missions".

There have been an addition of a lot of collecters in Cantha, "maxed out gear" is possible to obtain in PvE now thanks to the many new collectors in Cantha. And yes, I enjoy "hunting" for new gears as well.

The question is, would this "advantage" that the PvP only characters is "given" be truely significant enough to turn the tides of the battle?

Let's take a look:
Enchanting mod 20% vs 10%
- Healing Breeze 10s = 12s vs 11s
- Elemental Attunement 45s = 54s vs 49.5s
- Armor of Earth 30s = 36s vs 33s

Besides the above mentioned, we also have:
- Shields with 20% -5 damage received
- Sundering mods with 20% to penetrate 20% armor.

Also taking into consideration are the inherent mods of weapons:
+15% damage while enchanted
+15% damage while in stance
+15% damage while health is above 50%
etc

"Perfect" shields and weapons with max inherent mods are obtainable through the many collectors in Cantha, same goes for staves, rods and off-hand foci.

The only thing the collectors are unable to provide at the moment, are weapon upgrades.

Anyway, the question:
"Will these differences in small percentages significantly affect the outcome of these competitive missions?"


More the reason to allow PvP only characters to access these missions.
Why waste time hunting for "best gear possible" when I can roll out a PvP only character and jump into the fray immediately?
I believe these areas will be more populated once access for PvP only characters is made available.

RP-only districts would solve this perfectly. I see no problem in allowing PVP characters to all competitive content, as long as RP characters can still access the same content without having to play with PVP characters if they don't want to ;0

If this is the case, then Roleplaying characters ought to be able to participate with PvP only characters.

Not all Roleplaying characters feel inferior when they are matched up with PvP only characters.

In that they are only accessable by PvE or RPG characters.

As for the rest of the post, as I said in my original post, which was not an argument, only a reason I wouldn't sign it - no amount of math will change that, I disclaimed myself saying "if that's not how it works, ignore me".

I also don't really care one way or the other as I have no interest in playing either of those missions. I was simply speaking of the mid set that unless it's made fair to all, it shouldn't be allowed.

If everyone can make a PvP character and jump right in and play those, then they should simply be moved to battle isles... that would make it an easy change. Then the PvE characters wanting to play those simply need hop over there to join.

Seems Anet made those missions off of Battle Isle because they (however lightly) fit the story line and thus the PvP characters have no access to them - since the player has to get through the story and get to the point of conflict.

1.) Yes, the faction rewards are not worth it for the amount of time put into the mission.

2.) No, these are pve competitive missions. Access should only be given to pve characters.

3.) Yes, the individual faction rewards would be very helpful.

Increase the Faction rewards:
/signed

Increase the individual Faction rewards:
/signed

The OP has a point if they are 8v8 competitive missions. This would be the first pvp competition where no pvp only characters could access. PvE and PvP characters alike can enter HA, TA, RA, GH etc. etc.

I would say give it time and raise this issue. I dont think a.net, like when prophecies was released, wants everyone to spend the majority of their time sitting at these outposts with pvp only characters, instead of working through the storyline etc.

But thats the only justification for the way things are, and if these outposts are competitive missions, they need to be accessible to PvP only characters sooner rather than later.

So, I will sign this after I reach it with a single PvE character. Seems fair.

Infact, why not just have these outposts unlockable for your ACCOUNT via PvE?

Win - Win.

Thread revival.
Why? Because the Luxon / Kurzick faction rewards offered in these 2 mission are pathetic.

A runner can earn 400 Luxon faction in 2 minutes per run doing the "The Supply Lines (Luxon)" quest over and over again.


In fact, all the Luxon / Kurzick faction rewards from competitve missions:
- Alliance Battles
- Fort Aspenwood
- Jade Quarry
are simply pathetic, compared to repeatable quests.

Yes, these missions are fun to play, since you are playing with other live human being players.

Notice how Cavalon needs more than 4 mil luxon factions to control now?
Black Blades probably have hundreds of runners farming "The Supplies Line(Luxon)" quest.

The rewards from these competitive missions should be increased significantly, or else people would just resort to farming repeatble quests for experience, gold and faction.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

As someone pointed in some other place... may be, there is some lack of flexibility in GW with respect some things... I sign the idea of PvP only characters being able to enter into some PvE grounds. May be these two PvP missions and some other places like the Under World and the FoW (why?, because these two PvE places are dependent upon having one's region the favor of the gods, which is earned by characters playing in the HA) might be accesible for PvP only characters.

I wish to insist here -insist: I have done it several times- that I feel a lack of in-game communication means between players and guilds, so that guilds have it hard to grow up and players have it hard to find a suitable guild. I think that improving guilds is the key to make these battle grounds and elite mission more accesible and interesting.

I believe something need to be done, but I can't agree with everything that was suggested.

While whether pvp-only char issue, I think it is an odd ball. If pvp char has access to these, what would happen to RA/TA/HA? They would be dead, simple. The random 8 people team are just much more appealing than RA/TA and especially HA (since HA is so retardly harsh on getting a decent team), the majority of the play for fun would be gone.

On another hand, if things proceed well, the players will divide evenly, in the point of view of people with faction. For the non-faction, their number will decrease greatly.

Something need to be done, whatever it may be... hopfully for the better.

What i find interesting is that Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry are way more fun then alliance battles. With the random chaos that i enjoyed very much from FPE.

/signed for more faction and pvp char access

Updated original post to include the recent votes.

Thank you for all your replies.
Your feedbacks are invaluable and is much appreciated.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

I would like to be able to use my pvp guy in those places, currently we can only fight to the south which makes the border imbalanced. There is hardly anyone in the places and i dont blame them, the reward is pathetic. I would like to see faction gained for kills, like at tombs, or an increase in faction gained for winning.

/notsigned

I like it the way it is (though not many players...yet?). Much more fun then faction farming, IMO. It is arguable for PvP players to be able to participate...I'd say let this area stay for PvE chars, but seeing the unbalance of classes there, I'm really not sure.

More importantly it would be a great idea to let us form our own party of eight.

I don't see the point of guilds and now alliances if we can not even play thoses new missions with our guildmates and allies...

Spike is very unliky since in theses misisons we need to split.

Bump up the rewards:
/signed

Allow PVP characters:
/signed

Individual rewards for kills:
/notsigned - unfair to support characters

/signed allow pvp players

/signed greater faction rewards

not signed ever thought about monks?
unless they are going to heal a target to the point it dies (which i doubt) this is a bad idea as it favours some classes and completely ignores other classes and builds

support classes like ritualists, interupt mesmers and monks won't gain as much faction as a silly wammo can earn
and really i don't want to see more wammo's (already enough of those)

so:
1. Increase the faction rewards earned in these Missions.
yes cause it's not worth playing to earn faction atm

2. Allow PvP only characters to participate in these Missions
no it's a pve area, unless you can only join the side your alliance is bound with (so not both sides)

3. Implement individual faction rewards:
hell no (see above)


4. Allow them to be unlockable for your ACCOUNT via PvE.
no

Bigger rewards would be amazing but i am having so much fun playing Fort that the reward almost doesnt matter - although earning 1k per battle would be pretty amazing. But the reward in Jade would have to be increased since i havent played it since the game was realeased.
Btw - anyone knows why Fort sometimes gives 520 faction to the wining party?