Which Faction is the "Good Guys" Faction?
TheGuildWarsPenguin
They are both good because they both allied to kill Shiro. But why didnt the forest turn back to normal and the sea back to normal after you kill Shiro?
demon dantes
all i have to say is juggernauts man lol the kurzicks sacraficed people to create them. the seige turtles are hatchlings. so imo sacraficing people would make you the bad guy.
Guardian of the Light
Neither one of them is badder then the other. They only fight 'cause they hate each other.
This is a lot like many fights going on in the real world.
This is a lot like many fights going on in the real world.
Ninetail Trickster
Are Democrats or Republicans the good guys? (Let's ignore the obvious maniacs; both sides have them. -_-)
That's all Factions is. Politics.
....with swords, axes, magic and bloodshed.
That's all Factions is. Politics.
....with swords, axes, magic and bloodshed.
Metanoia
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Originally Posted by drakken06
Wow...drat that's too convincing...I've gone on appearances...^_^;;; I thought that the Luxons looked like a...I dunno...less organized struggling oppressed peoples, while the Kurzicks look like the evil oppressing rulers... Darn 99.7% opinions of people made on first glance... T_T
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Hell Raiser
Shiro and the Afflicted are the "Bad Guys" in this story, the Luxons and Kurzicks are simply two twins (neither good nor bad) bickering over who is older by what small amount of time, or two children bickering over who's stronger, faster, smarter etc. etc. It's nothing more than a quarrel between two equally talented brothers.
~Hell
~Hell
A_Muppet
I honestly can't say. Zorian Direspell did a very good analisys before, which I can't improve upon. I personally prefer the Kurzicks, because the Luxon's whole 'We r stronng, we rspect strong kekekekeke!' attitude reminds me far too much of stupid 1337 players from other computergames (cough)Counterstrike(cough) and as someone who's been jaded by having to deal with people like that online for nearly ten years, that attitude irritates me.
...that being said, it also reminds me a bit of norse warrior culter, and I like that.
...that being said, it also reminds me a bit of norse warrior culter, and I like that.
jackie
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
Shiro and the Afflicted are the "Bad Guys" in this story, the Luxons and Kurzicks are simply two twins (neither good nor bad) bickering over who is older by what small amount of time, or two children bickering over who's stronger, faster, smarter etc. etc. It's nothing more than a quarrel between two equally talented brothers.
~Hell |
Neither Luxon nor Kurzick are killing the Emperor or planning to invade all Cantha & beyond.
Kurzicks & Luxons just have deep hatred towards each other, like my neighbours have on me. eep.
=HT=Ingram
lol I thought for sure someone would say it, so I will. lol
Balthazar faction!!! lol JK. Couldn't resist...
Balthazar faction!!! lol JK. Couldn't resist...
Vahn Roi
Kurz seems to me to have a superiority complex calling the Luxons "savages" on the other hand the Luxon's are very violant (they hold a yearly arena battle to determine who gets to kill the Krakan)
Kurz is full of pompous windbags, Luxon is full of people with anger management problems. I'd say it's pretty even.
Kurz is full of pompous windbags, Luxon is full of people with anger management problems. I'd say it's pretty even.
kimahri
Yeah they are both cruel and evil, make your pick.
The Real Roy Keane
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Originally Posted by Lurid
Btw, goth and mainstream Emo bullshit are not the same thing.
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Jagflame
Anyone who has done Gyala Hatchery knows why Kurzick are evil... Poor baby turtles...
But seriously, Kurzick attack Luxon too, it's not merely Luxon doing the attacking.
And I'd like to point out that demonic drawings and satanic incantations can be considered art and music... I really don't know how else a society that chooses to live in a stone forest devoid of color can possibly be interested in any form of art. Maybe the reason Luxons don't draw art is because the entire landscape that they live in is basically a giant piece of artwork.
But seriously, Kurzick attack Luxon too, it's not merely Luxon doing the attacking.
And I'd like to point out that demonic drawings and satanic incantations can be considered art and music... I really don't know how else a society that chooses to live in a stone forest devoid of color can possibly be interested in any form of art. Maybe the reason Luxons don't draw art is because the entire landscape that they live in is basically a giant piece of artwork.
[FnG] Lazz
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Originally Posted by Zorian Direspell
Both technically have their virtues and their vices ... I would say that objective morality favors the Kurzicks as the actual good guys however.
Luxons respect strength because it was difficult to survive as a society that relied upon the bounty of the seas when that bounty was taken from them. It was only through sheer force of will ('Strength of Character' as Elder Rhea would have it) that the Luxons survived. There is something admirable in their never say die attitude. However, the result of this societal development has been that the Luxons don't respect anything without the same devotion to strength as themselves. The weak are left to suffer and die, and those not strong enough to resist the Luxons are broken and destroyed. For the Luxons, there can never be peace, as peace breeds apathy, and apathy drains a society's strength. Kurzicks, on the other hand, have a very rigid, religious society, bound by forms of tradition and rules of etiquette. Kurzicks respect ingenuity above strength. They pride themselves on their art and invention. Peculiarly, the aesthetic feel of the Kurzicks is essentially "Goth Germanic" and their pale features, dark clothing and rank titles (such as Kommandant) suggest fascist oppression and evil intent. This would seem especially so when compared to the Luxons, whose more colorful clothing and looser social regime suggest a lighter, more airy society. Such appearances are deceiving. The Kurzicks, you see, are interested first and foremost with the preservation of culture (all culture, as there are Kurzicks who study Luxon society). For the Kurzicks, peace is not only possible, it is a goal to be achieved, if not for the frequent raids and attrocities committed by the Luxons. To be fair, this has led Kurzick forces to adopt rash measures, including a "god's vengeance" weapon, among other things. If the Luxons are capable of consistent attrocities, then the danger of the Kurzicks is their capacity for rarer yet greater attrocities. Regardless, the only faction that could conceive of peaceful coexistance not in contravention to their way of life is the Kurzicks. Which, of course, is why I joined that side. |
Lord Shazneri
LUXON - end of story!
Kurzic kill one another and Rip each other off!
see thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041994
Kurzic kill one another and Rip each other off!
see thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041994
Jagflame
Kurzick amber is probably dried blood from their cut wrists.
Haggard
The Zaibatsu Corporation are the evil ones!
Denshoni
Both sides fail because they continue to fight one another and I doubt they even remember why they started in the first place. Blindly fighting one another while teaching the newer generations to hate one another and all that crap. *random thumbs up*
The majority of the armors look better on Kurzick side than Luxon (hence the higher Amber prices over Jadeite). Luxon environments look more pleasing than Kurzick (Overall, kinda bright though...and that's not cool).
Arrogant hippies or Goth baby turtle killers. Pick a side, switch sides, whatever. Just do it and stop thinking so hard. It's not like your permanently bound to the side you choose anyway.
The majority of the armors look better on Kurzick side than Luxon (hence the higher Amber prices over Jadeite). Luxon environments look more pleasing than Kurzick (Overall, kinda bright though...and that's not cool).
Arrogant hippies or Goth baby turtle killers. Pick a side, switch sides, whatever. Just do it and stop thinking so hard. It's not like your permanently bound to the side you choose anyway.
Don Zardeone
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Originally Posted by Lord Shazneri
LUXON - end of story!
Kurzic kill one another and Rip each other off! see thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041994 |
1. If someone is killing baby turtles then it's the Luxons. LOOK AT YOUR ARMOUR.
+1 evil point
2. Luxons seem to have some Sith-style method to gain control. They kill eachother.
+1 evil point
3. Luxons try to kill the forever trees and other types of trees. They are murderers of the forests, someone call greenpeace.
+1 evil point
4. Shiro is back and they don't want to lend you their spear. They waste your time. They could have just let you grab the spear, kill the damn fish all together as a freaking team and then boogered off.
+1 bastard point
5. Elder Rhea might very well be the gypsy fortuneteller chick who might very well be Glint
+2 specualtion of evilness points
6. Luxons hurt their turtles and mount huge cannons on them. That's animal abuse
+1 evil point for Luxons
7.Luxons were originally pirates
+2 evil points
Kurzicks:
1. Kurzicks protect trees
+1 light side point
2. Kurzicks don't kill turtles for armour, they aren't poachers
+1 lightside ponts
3. Kurzicks sacrifice themselves to protect the trees by becoming a tree.
Compared to the luxons who would rather sacrifice the turle's health...
+3 light side points
4. Kurzicks would like to give you the ashes RIGHT AWAY
+2 light side points
5. But they can't because they ashes are stuck so they give you some help to get them to get the ashes by working like a damn team
+1 light side point
6. Kurzicks show mercy to the luxons in the Eternal grove mission by allowing the Luxons to hide their butts inside their camp. I could have mastered that mission even without the luxons so there...
+5 light side points
End result:
Luxons
- 4 evil points
- 1 bastard point
- 2 speculation of evilness points
Kurzicks:
379835693875 light side points
Kurzicks are the good guys. Luxons are totally, 100% the bad guys
now I see everyone changing factions because they picked by first impression X.x
Jagflame
So Luxons are called hippies while you yourself point out how they love trees, sacrifice themselves for trees, and call greenpeace? Lol.
Here's a better table:
1. Luxons honor the turtles by making the most important aspect of their life (armor) with the deceased's previous plateing. This is similar to someone in today's society wearing a gold locket with a picture of a deceased relative, friend, or lover.
+1 respect point
2. Luxons allow challenges to take place in order that leaders are not permanent and positions change hands.
+1 government point
3. Luxons oppose hippy, extreme organizations such as greenpeace.
+1 practical point
4. Luxons honor traditions and the wishes of their people in order to maintain current practices while still allowing you to obtain the spear.
+1 respect point
5. Elder Rhea might very well be the gypsy fortuneteller chick (which would mean she can ressurect herself) who might very well be Glint.
+2 speculation of awsomeness points
6. Luxons take good care of their domesticated turtles and protect them in danger. They use them for help similar to humans using horses to travel.
+1 good animal trainer point
7.Luxons were originally pirates
+100000000000000 freaking ownage points
1. Kurzicks care about the lives of trees over humans
+1 wtf crazy hippy point
2. Kurzicks brutally slaughter innocent baby turtles (Gyala Hatchery anyone?)
+1000000000000 evil horrible monster needs to be shot in the face points
3. Kurzicks sacrifice their lives to save trees
+3 wtf crazy hippy points
4. Kurzicks' design of politics makes it so you needs the right connections in order to do anything due to its corruptness and the political leaders' inability to change positions and stubborness
+2 corrupt government points
6. Kurzicks show mercy to the luxons in the Eternal grove mission by allowing the Luxons to hide their butts inside their camp. This is the exact same thing only vice versa that happens in the Luxon's Gyala Hatchery mission; only the Luxons showed mercy even after the Kurzick tried to slaughter baby turtles.
+5 mercy points but Luxons got 100 mercy points for Gyala Hatchery so you subtract it to get the Kurzicks -95 mercy points.
There's the real truth. Don't let any Kurzick scum tell you otherwise. Also notice that all my notes are simply the truth about each of the previous poster's notes.
Here's a better table:
1. Luxons honor the turtles by making the most important aspect of their life (armor) with the deceased's previous plateing. This is similar to someone in today's society wearing a gold locket with a picture of a deceased relative, friend, or lover.
+1 respect point
2. Luxons allow challenges to take place in order that leaders are not permanent and positions change hands.
+1 government point
3. Luxons oppose hippy, extreme organizations such as greenpeace.
+1 practical point
4. Luxons honor traditions and the wishes of their people in order to maintain current practices while still allowing you to obtain the spear.
+1 respect point
5. Elder Rhea might very well be the gypsy fortuneteller chick (which would mean she can ressurect herself) who might very well be Glint.
+2 speculation of awsomeness points
6. Luxons take good care of their domesticated turtles and protect them in danger. They use them for help similar to humans using horses to travel.
+1 good animal trainer point
7.Luxons were originally pirates
+100000000000000 freaking ownage points
1. Kurzicks care about the lives of trees over humans
+1 wtf crazy hippy point
2. Kurzicks brutally slaughter innocent baby turtles (Gyala Hatchery anyone?)
+1000000000000 evil horrible monster needs to be shot in the face points
3. Kurzicks sacrifice their lives to save trees
+3 wtf crazy hippy points
4. Kurzicks' design of politics makes it so you needs the right connections in order to do anything due to its corruptness and the political leaders' inability to change positions and stubborness
+2 corrupt government points
6. Kurzicks show mercy to the luxons in the Eternal grove mission by allowing the Luxons to hide their butts inside their camp. This is the exact same thing only vice versa that happens in the Luxon's Gyala Hatchery mission; only the Luxons showed mercy even after the Kurzick tried to slaughter baby turtles.
+5 mercy points but Luxons got 100 mercy points for Gyala Hatchery so you subtract it to get the Kurzicks -95 mercy points.
There's the real truth. Don't let any Kurzick scum tell you otherwise. Also notice that all my notes are simply the truth about each of the previous poster's notes.
raven214
^^^ LOL Good arguments for both extremes/sides/points of view. 
Ken Dei
Once again
Original Conflict was over resources which became a blood fued over time.
Frankly, all I hear here are the childish rantings of trash talkers from Alliance Battles who probably know nothing about the factions save from the storyline and rumors.
I still need to go read the history on the Kurzick Houses but I actually took the time to read about the clans.
The Serpent and the Turtle Clans do present their leadership in a less then friendly light. However, the Crab Clan shows an instance where the methods of strength were solely useful for good.
The Serpent Clan changed leadership after our brothers an a sister challenged the current Captain. The Sister told her brothers she was not interested in the fight and that she wasn't a threat. Hence, the four brothers fought the captain and each other till one remained, whereupon he was easily overpowered by the sister who entered the fray.
The Turtle clan changed leadership after the current captain and his daughter had a falling out after a Convocation Festival. It is said the captain, his daughter, and the daughter's friend went hunting but the daughter and the friend were the only two to return.
The Crab clan changed leadership twice. The first succession was a standard defeat of the current captain by another Luxon. However, this man was evil, who either exiled or caused his sibling to flee. (I forget which it was) After which the Crab Clan suffered under this leader as he squandered the resources of the clan for his own benefit. It was then sometime later that his sibling returned, with a pack of Saltspray Dragons with them and kicked out the evil leader. It is said that if the sibling ever needs them the Saltspray Dragons will return to their aid.
Now the first story, while brutal, indicates strategy and ingenuinity over strength. The second story is on of sneaky behavior and rumors. The third is well, victory over tyranny.
Please note however, that this brutish nature is simply a facet of the policial structure and rarely ever required of normal citizens of the Luxon Empire. Most of the time we're busy mining Jade, rasing giant sea creatures and holding off incursions from Naga, Outcasts, and other threats to our borders.
Original Conflict was over resources which became a blood fued over time.
Frankly, all I hear here are the childish rantings of trash talkers from Alliance Battles who probably know nothing about the factions save from the storyline and rumors.
I still need to go read the history on the Kurzick Houses but I actually took the time to read about the clans.
The Serpent and the Turtle Clans do present their leadership in a less then friendly light. However, the Crab Clan shows an instance where the methods of strength were solely useful for good.
The Serpent Clan changed leadership after our brothers an a sister challenged the current Captain. The Sister told her brothers she was not interested in the fight and that she wasn't a threat. Hence, the four brothers fought the captain and each other till one remained, whereupon he was easily overpowered by the sister who entered the fray.
The Turtle clan changed leadership after the current captain and his daughter had a falling out after a Convocation Festival. It is said the captain, his daughter, and the daughter's friend went hunting but the daughter and the friend were the only two to return.
The Crab clan changed leadership twice. The first succession was a standard defeat of the current captain by another Luxon. However, this man was evil, who either exiled or caused his sibling to flee. (I forget which it was) After which the Crab Clan suffered under this leader as he squandered the resources of the clan for his own benefit. It was then sometime later that his sibling returned, with a pack of Saltspray Dragons with them and kicked out the evil leader. It is said that if the sibling ever needs them the Saltspray Dragons will return to their aid.
Now the first story, while brutal, indicates strategy and ingenuinity over strength. The second story is on of sneaky behavior and rumors. The third is well, victory over tyranny.
Please note however, that this brutish nature is simply a facet of the policial structure and rarely ever required of normal citizens of the Luxon Empire. Most of the time we're busy mining Jade, rasing giant sea creatures and holding off incursions from Naga, Outcasts, and other threats to our borders.
Energizer Deth Buni
Lets be REAL CLEAR here... we have proof that the Kurzicks have WMDs and have had them for a long time. I think our use of siege turtles is very justified in this matter.....
Dzan
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Originally Posted by Zorian Direspell
I would say that objective morality favors...
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Kijik Oni Hanryuu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Raiin Maker
luxon=the places look nicer
kurzick= great looking 15k armour. |
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
ok now wait a dang second I should read your post omega... the kurzicvks only want the war to end on THEIR conditions! The luxons know that so they say war war war and this whole war was started by the arguments over who had slain shiro tagachi archemorus(lux) or saint victor(kurz).
Zorian Direspell
By 'objective' I meant a consideration seperate and apart from the subjective moral philosophies of the factions. Technically you could argue that any quality is a subjective interpretation, and go from there, but I doubt this is the forum for that kind of long winded and ultimately futile debate. The objectivisim in my post can be summed up thusly:
1. Is Peace Good? (For the purposes of this morality test, I say yes. You may not like peace. If peace isn't for you, feel free to believe so ... although I know of no human culture where this is held to be true (even the most war happy nations have desired peace as the ultimate outcome of their endeavors)).
2. All other things being equal, is the possibility of peace greater/better than no possibility of peace? (Assuming again that peace could be assigned a positive value (of some unqualified degree) and that a null state would otherwise have no value (by definition), we know that the answer is intuitively yes).
3. Assuming one and two are correct, we can determine which faction is 'good' independent of the cultural mores of the two sides. In this case, because the Kurzicks are the only the side that has a possibility for establishing peace, the Kurzicks hold the higher moral ground.
An attrocity by attrocity measurement of their values obviously would serve no good, as both could be valued to 'even out'. It is only by looking from the outside in to the conflict that we can even hope to have a practical answer to the OP's question. That is what I tried to provide.
1. Is Peace Good? (For the purposes of this morality test, I say yes. You may not like peace. If peace isn't for you, feel free to believe so ... although I know of no human culture where this is held to be true (even the most war happy nations have desired peace as the ultimate outcome of their endeavors)).
2. All other things being equal, is the possibility of peace greater/better than no possibility of peace? (Assuming again that peace could be assigned a positive value (of some unqualified degree) and that a null state would otherwise have no value (by definition), we know that the answer is intuitively yes).
3. Assuming one and two are correct, we can determine which faction is 'good' independent of the cultural mores of the two sides. In this case, because the Kurzicks are the only the side that has a possibility for establishing peace, the Kurzicks hold the higher moral ground.
An attrocity by attrocity measurement of their values obviously would serve no good, as both could be valued to 'even out'. It is only by looking from the outside in to the conflict that we can even hope to have a practical answer to the OP's question. That is what I tried to provide.
Xenrath
Tsk White Mantle are the only good guys of course!
Omega X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu
ok now wait a dang second I should read your post omega... the kurzicvks only want the war to end on THEIR conditions! The luxons know that so they say war war war and this whole war was started by the arguments over who had slain shiro tagachi archemorus(lux) or saint victor(kurz).
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Lurid
^ LOL
Its the Sith, i'm sure of it.
Its the Sith, i'm sure of it.
Saider maul
lol neither is good or evil. luxon and kurzick are like montigues and capulets of romeo and juliet. They are strictly 2 fueding families who happen to have high political status.
Pretice
heres the quick way to think of it,
Kurzicks live in dark, evil places
and
Luxons live in bright, joyful places with happy turtles that shoot things :P
Kurzicks live in dark, evil places
and
Luxons live in bright, joyful places with happy turtles that shoot things :P
Rogier
both are equal, it's that simple!
Jagflame
Quote:
| Kurzicks were willing to END the war for a chance at peace, But Luxons wanted nothing more but to annihilate all Kurzicks. |
This is bad by itself, but he takes his rage out so harshly that he decides to kill off an entire settlement because of a (false) assumptian that he made on a whim based on prejudices.
Guardian of the Light
Well at both "Can't We Get Along" quests the leader says something like.
"HA I'm not allying with luxon/kurzick they are EVIL and my son/daughter can come right back here and get away from that kurzick/luxon scum."
In other words they propagnada each other how the other is evil.
I'm surpised some players are buying it too...
"HA I'm not allying with luxon/kurzick they are EVIL and my son/daughter can come right back here and get away from that kurzick/luxon scum."
In other words they propagnada each other how the other is evil.
I'm surpised some players are buying it too...
Sagius Truthbarron
The Luxons just want to hurt our cutesy forest animals and Fungal Wallows. The Kurzicks fight for Turtle Freedom! FREE THE TURTLES! SAVE THE TURTOISE!
Jagflame
Quote:
| The Kurzicks fight for Turtle Freedom! FREE THE TURTLES! SAVE THE TURTOISE! |
Dove_Song
the turtles were being bred to serve the evilness....we ended their lives before you had a chance to abuse them for years....
they would thank us for the release
they would thank us for the release
generik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dove_Song
the turtles were being bred to serve the evilness....we ended their lives before you had a chance to abuse them for years....
they would thank us for the release |
Sagius Truthbarron
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Originally Posted by generik
Why not kill the Luxons holding the hatchery then?
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