Red items: PvE-only weapons with truly unique mods.

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Actually this is a post that I've just come across earlier today which mirrors what some of earlier posts on this board from nearly a year ago.

Since I probably couldn't have done a better job than the original poster I'll just repost it on these forums in its entirety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zix Talonspell
Most people should know this by now; when you finally beat the game you can get 1 Amulet of the Mists, which can in turn be exchanged for a green item of your choice. One of them, is Shiro's Sword.

Wow... did you say Shiro's Sword? Isn't Shiro the main baddie of GW: Factions? That's friggin cool! After all, you don't see things like "Rurik's Blade" or "Lich Staff" in Prophecies.

I looked at the stats of Shiro's almighty weapon. I looked at my Victo's Blade. Nowwaitaminit...

They are exactly the same, no? Except that Shiro's Blade had a nonsensical req of 15 str to hold it. Like.. wtf dude?

This post is not to complain abt the rubbishy req of the sword or the boring mod on it. It is to look at how ANet is afraid, or cautious of ruining their much emphasized ingame balance by introducing new weapons or new weapon mods; to the detriment of PvE.

It is Shiro's sword, is it not? Then why is it like any other 3/1 +30Hp sword out there? I am not asking for some uber mod. Hell, I would even like it to be balanced, but with some zany mods on it. Like the only 5/1 Life Steal Sword there, but with that hefty 15 str req.

PvE requires a lot of things to remain fresh and interesting. It is, after all, the domain of most casual players. I love the idea of Viktor's Urn and Archemorus' Spear of being ingame PvE uber weapons. (Even though you cant actually swing the dang spear... ) Likewise, ANet should introduce the idea of some really out of the norm weapons, starting with Shiro's Sword.

Collectable loot is the heart and soul of any PvE, or any RPG for that matter. I find it dissapoinitng that for the rest of my GW life, I will only see things like 3/1, 20/20, 20% Chance, Crippling, Fiery etc etc..ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

Greens were cool for a while, until everyone realises that there can only be so many times you can arrange and mix mods on them. Unique skins are great, but just skins? Ugh.

PvE needs to be taken to a different direction with more ingame weapons to collect, but one that does not need to affect the balance of PvP. So what can be done?

I was thinking, and dreaming of RED weapons. Red is another class of max dmg drops you can get from bosses or whatnot. They are uber rare, and to reflect on their uniqueness, they have some really interesing mods. Of course, you cannot add mods to them. For example:

Cursed Talons of Zix (Focus Item) Req 16 Soul Reaping
Cannot be equipped in PvP areas
Energy + 10
Soul Reaping +2
Whenever a creature near you dies, you suffer 10 dmg.

These Red items do not have to be broken so as to make PvE a yawn. They just have to be interesting. "How does that affect PvP?", you may ask. Well, it doesn't. Whenever you go to a PvP area, be it RA, or TA, or GvG, or whatever, they are automatically unequipped from your char and can not be equipped until you leave that area. Gameplay wise it can simply be stated that PvP is an area of fair combat, and such powerful weapons are not allowed into the arenas.

If ANet agrees to this, it would be a boon for PvE. I can imagine a long list of such unique, interesting weapons to be available. After all, it is only limited to your imaginaition, is it not?

PvE, IMHO, needs to be distinct, although not entirely, from PvP. Make it more fun! Spice it up a little! Raise the level cap! (Just kidding). Having new loot, (prob the heart and soul of every RPG) is perhaps the first way to go. And now, for a bit of dreaming:

Shiro's Sword (Sword) Req 16 Str
Cannot be equipped in PvP areas
Dmg: 15-22
-50 HP
Life Degeneration: 3
Energy Degeneration: 1
+15 Dmg
Shiro's Curse: 20% Chance Target Attacked Foe suffer from bleeding, disease, and deep wound for 5 seconds

Magefist (Armour Piece: Elementalist Glove)
Cannot be equipped in PvP areas
AL: 60
Energy Degeneration: 1
Air Magic +2
Fire Magic +2
Earth Magic +2
Water Magic +2

Mirrormask (I hope I dun get sued or something :P)
Armour Piece: Mesmer Headpiece
Cannot be equipped in PvP areas
AL: 40
Whenever a foe you are targetting casts an enchantment on himself/goes into a stance, the same enchantment will be cast on you/ you will go into the same stance.

Melandru's Gift (Bow) Req 12 Animal Mastery
Cannot be equipped in PvP areas
Dmg: 15-28
Dmg. +15% (while health is above 50%)
While Melandru's Gift is equipped, your pet has 50% more health.
While Melandru's Gift is equipped, your pet deals 20% more dmg.
In closing, I really think that part of the design flaw behind GW that is seriously hamstringing PvE is this whole idea that PvP has to be tied in very closely with the rest of the game. The recent Factions expansion as well as the resultant community response since release is probably amper proof that people really aren't interested in the story line, and that if Anet stays on this original track that they choose to embark on.. there probably will be no GW after another next couple releases.

People play this game for a multitude of reasons, and one of them is this sense of "newness", this feeling that you might actually potentially get something different each time you head out that portal, rather than just another 20% <this> or another +<0-30> hp mod.

What's so interesting to that?

Case in point, how many items you received as part of your drops actually end up equipped on your character rather than being sold to merchants as junk? Likewise is it even conceivable that a boss character capable of dealing out 350 damage spirit rifts actually did that with a plain white staff?

I certainly have no intention of seeing GW go down the tubes as a mediocre title, and for that reason I understand why the devs are so careful with their economic measures. However the fact remains thhat PvE really needs more to it to keep it fresh.

Feel free to discuss other ideas as well as various reasons to disapprove of such a suggestion. I for one will really be looking forward to spending more on the GW franchise if PvE players would actually get a wee bit more lovin'.

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

The balance and fairness PvP Spike in me cries out in pain at this idea.

The fun and games PvE Timmy in me absolutely loves this idea.

Sure. Introduce them and say they can't be used in PvP. I see no reason why not.

Two April Mornings

Two April Mornings

No Luck No Time No Money

Join Date: Nov 2005

Amherst College, MA

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Me/

doesnt sound bad at all.

I do see peopel exploiting this, but hey, who wouldnt love pwning charr with a 5/1 sword.

Lepton CFd

Lepton CFd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Pantheon of Shadows [dei]

Mo/Me

As long as that "Cannot be used in PvP areas" tag is in there, this is a wonderful idea. It wouldn't unbalance the game at all, and it would create more variety for PvE players.

And come on ANet, where is the unqiue armor with unique stats?!?! That's gotta be in PvE! I know this isn't like a normal MMORPG, but they still have to have some kind of interesting stuff for PvE players. I don't see why PvP players would complain if they couldn't get these new items, as long as PvE players couldn't use them in PvP zones. For people that only play PvE, I'm afraid if ANet keeps going the way they're going, ANet will begin to lose their PvE fans. As stated in the post, there is only a limited number of combinations you can do with +30hp, sundering 20/20, etc., and for PvE players, items = everything (appearance as well as function...sometimes even more so appearance).

Another thing that irritates me is that now the ONLY good weapons are weapons that have the 15^50 mod. Now, I understand perfectly why that is a good mod, but those are basically the only thing people want in their weapons...it shouldn't be like that, there should be more variety, in both PvE AND PvP.

Hmm yeah, so I'm really hoping that ANet is going to do something about this. It seems to me that this is a serious problem--for PvE players and for ANet (in terms of losing costumers). However, I would figure that ANet MUST have already thought about this...it seems like a rather obvious solution. I'm curious as to what their arguments against it is?

MysticoN

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Lord of the guilds

N/R

/signed 100 times

Lafayette

Lafayette

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Very much agreed.

/signed.

Formina

Formina

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Australia

Slash Fail [ftl]

E/

/signed! ^^

This would breathe fresh life into PvE, and as long as you can't use them in PvP, I don't see why this shouldn't be implemented.

Lurid

Lurid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/

/signed

Deffinately adds more content than this oh so interesting story line.

M C H A M M E R

M C H A M M E R

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Drunken Rangers [DR], Sig of Ultimate Doom [SiG]

W/

/Signed..Cept for the sword...-50 hp will make 55s more invincible

Rogier

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

[GoT]

/signed
BUT (there is always a but..)
don't make it that unbalanced, an ele armour with everything +2? the rest is alright

Replicant

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/Me

/signed 382,471 times... 1 sign for each peice of gold i have...
this would truly add some content to the PvE system and i would love going out and getting these type of weapons =)

take a look at some of the Diablo2 items, it was fun to go out and kill some random creature and get some weird yellow item that had some cool mods on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogier
/signed
BUT (there is always a but..)
don't make it that unbalanced, an ele armour with everything +2? the rest is alright
lol yea, Item with all +2 combined with Glyph of Elemental Power = +4 and a weapon with +1 chance 20% would be +5 lol.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

WHen I first read this, my knee-jerk reaction was to scream some crap about in-game balance. THe more I think about it, however, the more it actually sounds kind of fun. I'm not sure making them ridiculously rare is the right way to go (Perhaps they could be quest rewards for some of the more difficult ones, such as the titan quests?)

/half-signed half-not signed
//yes I realize that cancels itself out, go away.

kvndoom

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

I'll agree with the suggestion. I was thinking myself not too long ago how far into the GW saga, how many chapters later, would people get tired of the same ol' weapon stats with no variation. We definitely need this kind of stuff, plus 2-handed axes and swords (with higher damage and slower attack rates), 1 handed hammers (lower damage + faster attack rate) and all kinds of other stuff to freshen it up a little.

Cash

Cash

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Bound By Wild Desire [Wild]

/signed

unique items rock- greens used to be ok but now it seems theres a factions green for every kind of weapon you can imagine. just waaaay too many out there even for collectors to manage.

Lord Cooper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Black Death Knights

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by M C H A M M E R
/Signed..Cept for the sword...-50 hp will make 55s more invincible
lol i though i was the only one who noticed that slipped in there.. im guessing he 55's himself.

/signed on everything except the -50hp on the sword, the mage fist.. too powerful, come on +2 oneverything?? and the +50% health for pets on melandrus gift.

hmm ok i guess i didnt sign much..
lets try again

/signed in principle but not those weapons

yep thats better

Sagius Truthbarron

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

OMG?! YOU DON"T HAVE WANITA'S HODGEPODGE?! You're not SSing in my group!

What I mean to say is, they shouldn't get so powerful or unique that people will start requiring them for groups.

prism2525

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

Scepter of Orr
Cannot be used in pvp
dark 11-22 Req 16 Death magic
Energy regen +1
Undead minion cap is increased by 5
If you would die while summoning a minion, you are interrupted and gain 150HP instead.
Two-Handed

Firemaster Staff
Cannot be used in pvp
11-22 req 16 fire magic
Halves fire skill casting (40%)
Halves fire skill recharge (40%)
Fire Magic +2
Fire attacks cause 1 second burning
Two-handed

Diviner's Rod
Cannot be used in PVP
11-22 req 16 divine favor
all monk spells you cast heal for 30 more
Energy +5 HP^50

Btw...
/signed

Chooby

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.

shardfenix

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

As much as I would love to see items like this, I do not want to see such achievements go only so far. I am primarily a PvP player, and I want to be able to use any sweet item I find in PvE for PvP. Arenanet doesn't have to put a restriction on items to be PvE only items. Certainly -exta health/energy degen is a good enough drawback for +1 (always) to an attribute. I have a perfect shadow bow that gives 15% always, and has an extra point of life degen. Tht is just one example of how really good mods can be balanced with drawbacks.

As exciting as those red items would be, I do not want to see Guild Wars turn into Diablo 2, where people can have +30 to an attribute or have damage reduced by 500. I would like to see, and I stress, REASONABLE uber-mods with large drawbacks. Players in PvE can find away around the drawbacks (Mending FTW!), but PvP characters might be reluctant to use those items, because in a PvP environment, anything can happen, unlike in PvE. I wouldn't dare set foot in hroes ascent with a weapon that causes bleeding always but has -3 health degen. I would have no problem doing it in pve.

You can only have so many mod combinations in PvE, which arenanet is slowly reaching. I'm sure they will come up with something new.

MCS

MCS

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

A suggestion from a pver that I can live with, incredible.

I personally don't care as long as it doesn't f**k with pvp.

thrice

thrice

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Grotto

No guild

Mo/Me

/signed
great idea

exiled mat

exiled mat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

The netherlands > friesland > balk

[JAMM] Justified Ancients of Moo Moo

E/Me

Quote:
Firemaster Staff
Cannot be used in pvp
11-22 req 16 fire magic
Halves fire skill casting (40%)
Halves fire skill recharge (40%)
Fire Magic +2
Fire attacks cause 1 second burning
Two-handed
THE Holy Grail of fire magic



/SIGNED SIGNED and did i mention SIGNED?

S!carius

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Germany

Force of Arms [FoA]

Mo/

/signed

This is a every cool Idea, as long as they can't be used in PvP, I don't see why you can't have an unbalanced weapon.

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS
I personally don't care as long as it doesn't f**k with pvp.
QFT.

PvE players can have their Leet Foebane Sword of Uberness +20 with +4000% damage to everything if they want... as long as it doesn't touch PvP.

Sanji

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

I'm OK with unique weapons that are more powerful but also have drawbacks and are easily accessable.

Uber-stupid powerful, absolutely not. People trivialize PvE content enough as it is with copy & paste builds. I wouldn't want to see PuGs requiring specific hard to get gear so that the group can sleep through the mission or Anet having to drastically rebalance the game (IE: Make the monsters break the rules of the game even more) in response to this. While the economy is pretty much in shambles, because it's mostly based around prestige items there is no real inequity between players other than how shiny they are.

Guild Wars is ill-suited for gear becoming that much more of a factor in your character's strength and ability than it already is. So it would have to be done intelligently and within reason.

Poison Ivy

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

A very think outside the box idea... I don't see why not, bring it on

/signed

Retribution X

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

/signed. I like it, I love it, I want some more of it...

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

/unsigned to hell

You have endgame Prophecy areas being cleared with three players, and you want to add more powerful items? What the hell? Just like greens, practically everyone will have them eventually and then the bar for PvE is lowered further.

Higher damage or statted weapons should never be factored in. Then those will become 'max', and in another chapter people will call for more buffs. Not to mention every fragment of the pve economy will be practically sodomized by their introduction. Players already have easy access to max gear.

Anet gave us 'monster customized' green items, some with custom skins, and with max mods. Now you want the same thing, with even higher mods?

The PvE'er in me detests the idea in every way, and the PvP part of me just blacked out from laughing at PvE too much.

Quote:
Case in point, how many items you received as part of your drops actually end up equipped on your character rather than being sold to merchants as junk? Likewise is it even conceivable that a boss character capable of dealing out 350 damage spirit rifts actually did that with a plain white staff?
Case in point, it's relatively incredibly high. Try Diablo 2, where you will get mountains of useless stuff between every unique item, and a mountain of unique items between every useable unique item. And maybe an actually good one occasionally. Likewise, it is conceivable. The bosses haven't been buffed, they've been changed from defensive double to offensive double. People didn't notice, maybe, because it didn't effect their pretty damage numbers (much like the 'mesmers do something?' sentiment), but whoa do they notice now that they see the numbers go up. Why don't you push for a level cap of 31, since bosses can get that. And since when did equipment determine your spell damage?

luilui

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

The suggested new weapons might seem interesting to you now, not sure if it'll be still the case 2 months after they are added. Then you'll probably suggest another set of weapons. 1 year later we'll probably have people using a sword that deals 500 aoe dmg but - 60 armor with 15 degen and lose 95% health after one hit. I dont see the point really, not much different to increasing the lvl cap for pve char imo.

GW is not supposed to be an item based game, and I dont see why they should move toward it. People should enjoy the actual gameplay not the whatever superuber sword they pick up after farming for 20000+ hrs. Using items to keep people interested is just a lame cheap trick that some developers use when they cant design missions that's actually interesting.

I would rather they have some areas like the zeishen challenges but more towards PvE style where people can just make a character and play there, so they can experience different professions of the game. (I doubt the majority of the PvE players have tried/completed the game with all the professions) If they enjoy it then they can make a proper PvE character and perhaps a new title if you beat the game with all 8 professions.

(I suggest Anet are create this some new arena like snowball fight, or dodge ball (ok those a bit toward pvp), or even a runner arena (which can be completely pve style) were people can go in with their own build and try to compete for a GW's world record. Getting a title for being the fastest runner in GW should certainly be fun. Maybe i should make a separate post about this....)

I dont know what Anet promised when you buy the game, but my impression was when you finished the game you move to PvP. And rather than having new contents to keep people interested it's the competitivity that keep people going. I'm not sure if that's fair to pay $50 and expect the game to last one whole year. I think Anet has done really well for designing this game with 8 very different professions and required very different approach (in other word if you try all 8 profession you'll certainly make your money worth). New content would be welcomed but it's not like they it own to us.

Fenrir Brightclaw

Fenrir Brightclaw

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Guild Wars

This might be one of the best idea yet. It doesn't screw with the PvP part anet likes so much, and gives PvEers something cool to get/ show off/ whatever. And because of all the req 16 it CAN'T be used unless you are lvl 20, so it doesn't really screw the pve part too!

The only problem now is that you get to lvl 20 very fast in factions, but they could pobably add that once you get it (think kind of like the collectors at the end of factions), it get's customised, so you can't transfer it to your new lvl 1 characters and finish the game fast.

Once they figured something out to fix those problems; then /signed like hell!

mqstout

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Pittsburgh

Introducing such objects will make GW like the black morass that is World of Warcraft, where your character is nothing more than how much time you've played to get uber-gear. Even if they're not allowed in PvP (which will never fly, BTW) -- you'd see people having to chime their equipment out in order to get groups. That's just not a good idea.

WiLdFiRe111

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Melbourne, Australia

[LBS]

/signed as long as they're not ridiculous.

John Bloodstone

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Requiem Lords

R/Me

I love this idea, keep them out of pvp and make sure they are well balanced - with more powerful mods but bigger drawbacks to prevent them becoming 'uber gear'. Make sure they all have high requirements (13+).

This way there will be a place for Reds and for Greens in the economy. Not everyne will want to live with the drawbacks and high req of Reds and may opt for no drawback Greens instead.

On the subject of armours, i'm not so sure it's such a good idea, but the weapons I am all for. /signed.

fiery

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

Soloing every mission with my uber weapons 5 k per person.

Shoitaan

Shoitaan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Australia

Tuskforce Supremacy [Tusk]

Me/N

/NOTsigned

Itemization as PvE progression? Jesus.. if you wanna grind game like that go play WoW.

Even if you have it not effect PvP, it still means that eventually your going to get areas where you must have these 'ph4t lewts' to be able to survive. This was not part of the guild wars mission statement and godwilling it never will be. Guild Wars is to reward skill and teamwork not time getting items.

PvE needs improvement yes, but adding progression through itemization is not the answer. Go play WoW or EQ

I HAS UBER SWORD OF LEET +10. THIS MAKES PVE RAWK!! I IS NO.1!!!!!!!ONEONEONEshiftone

Cybah

Cybah

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Guardians Of Eternal Sands [GoeS]

W/

/signed

BUT THEY HAVE TO BE CUSTOMIZED WHEN U GET THEM!

darrylhaines

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Freedom Of Midnight

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chooby
I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.
And the last time I checked it wasn't called PvP Guild wars either?
Where in Guild wars do you get the PvP from???

IMHO I think that PvE beats PvP hands down.

Your opinion is that PvP beats PvE hands down (or close enough).

Guild wars is a game of 2 factions (no pun intended) PvP and PvE.

Guild wars stands for both, not one or the other.

vaxmor

vaxmor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ascalon

R/

bye bye collector items.

bye bye casual gamers.

WTS UBER PWNING PVE ITEM 100K + 200 ECTO - no n00b offers.

Why use skill in your build when you can make up for incompetence with an uber item?

PvE is ofcourse way too hard, it needs much more ridiculously powerful weaponry.

TheOneMephisto

TheOneMephisto

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

/signed with a couple of conditions

1. Great gains, but greate drawbacks also. Stuff like -5 health degen, -20% damage, constant poisoned, cast times for spells 2x longer, you know? big stuff.

2. Customized when you get them. Therefore, no selling.

3. Only get them at the very end of the game. For instance, maybe get 1 after beating each titan's quest or something. Therefore, you've already beaten the game after getting it, so it doesn't make PvE any easier. Also, you can only get them once per character and it provides an incentive to actually do those quests. Maybe also get one for clearing out UW and FoW including all quests, clearing out SF including all quests, that kind of stuff.

John Bloodstone

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Requiem Lords

R/Me

Lots of knee-jerk reactions from people who can't be bothered to think for themselves...

If Reds are properly balanced then they won't become a requirement for high level gaming. What they will do is offer a more diverse range of weaponary that is a bit more exciting than the rest.

Cybah has the right idea - have a collector who you can trade high level collectables to get Reds which are instantly customised for the character who traded for them. Goodbye Red farming.

Seriously, stop over-reacting to easily solvable issues. Have an open mind, it's a good idea!