If they were made into spells than vampiric spirit would be over powered...enough said.
Cultist's Fervor even more than that....
D
How to nerf a touch ranger.
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I've already suggested this before. Making the Vamps into spells would utterly destroy TRs, which frankly is stupid. TRs teach people how to properly kite, like an idiot filter. In any case, making the two Vampiric Touches into "Deal X Shadow damage. You gain this much in health" would make them still powerful, but much weaker (since things like Reversal would affect it now).
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
TRs teach people how to properly kite, like an idiot filter.
amen.
why don't people take one or two skills to counter touch rangers!?
shouldn't people be trying to personalize their builds to be effective against a variety of builds instead of just a one?
there is at least one skill per profession that works as a counter to another profession's skills.
why don't people take one or two skills to counter touch rangers!?
shouldn't people be trying to personalize their builds to be effective against a variety of builds instead of just a one?
there is at least one skill per profession that works as a counter to another profession's skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
I've already suggested this before. Making the Vamps into spells would utterly destroy TRs, which frankly is stupid. TRs teach people how to properly kite, like an idiot filter. In any case, making the two Vampiric Touches into "Deal X Shadow damage. You gain this much in health" would make them still powerful, but much weaker (since things like Reversal would affect it now).
Yes making them into spells would make TRs not viable anymore because the only reason why they use Rangers is due to the expertise attribute that allows them to spam these high energy skills in the first place.
I dont think ANet wants to totally destroy the build and that is why some skills in the caster line are designated as "skills" rather than spells, from the very beginning.
It is not ANet's job to make PvP easy for you all the time, it is your job to think of counters (which there are many) if you want to win.
I dont think ANet wants to totally destroy the build and that is why some skills in the caster line are designated as "skills" rather than spells, from the very beginning.
It is not ANet's job to make PvP easy for you all the time, it is your job to think of counters (which there are many) if you want to win.
D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuja
The point isnt that they are overpowered its that they are too easy
please dont get gaile messing with expertise, tell her to change vamp skills to spells/attack skills and adjust recharge. Read the post right above this one....
Theres a big reason why Anet made some necro skills count as just SKILLS instead of spells.
If you make them into spells you get necros arising doing almost the exact same thing as touchers but they will be doing more damage....
please dont get gaile messing with expertise, tell her to change vamp skills to spells/attack skills and adjust recharge. Read the post right above this one....
Theres a big reason why Anet made some necro skills count as just SKILLS instead of spells.
If you make them into spells you get necros arising doing almost the exact same thing as touchers but they will be doing more damage....
D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
I've already suggested this before. Making the Vamps into spells would utterly destroy TRs, which frankly is stupid. TRs teach people how to properly kite, like an idiot filter. In any case, making the two Vampiric Touches into "Deal X Shadow damage. You gain this much in health" would make them still powerful, but much weaker (since things like Reversal would affect it now).
Things like Protective spirit would also save the caster.....life stealing was a huge nerf for 55 monks....what happens when they make the skill into dark damage? then you would see an uprise of idiots doing pretty much the elonas reach run only in the jungle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro
a simple fact is that touch rangers will not be nerfed.
touch ranegsr were created through smart thinking like all the other builds so it would be wrong to nerf touch rangers (not sure if what im saying makes sense but w/e) A lot of builds that have been nerfed were created through smart thinking, so this fact doesn't preclude a nerf for touchers.
Having played a toucher myself, I have to say it is an easy build to play and is highly effective against a multitude of builds.
A quick review of counters to touchers that ppl brought up:
Quote: Originally Posted by TwinRaven I can't beleive so many people fussing about this...think of it as a game of "Tag"...the trick is not to get touched...How do you accomplish this? RUN AWAY! Kiting, kiting, kiting...try it for Dwayna's sake...sheesh SO simple...SO many people have figured this out already...leave my build alone.
EDIT: Please look here for suggested counters for touch rangers...took me 2 minutes to find it: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/R/N_Touch_Ranger Taken from the GuildWiki link posted by TwinRaven above:
Use anti-spammer strategies, such as Blackout or Diversion.
Diversion is a good counter. However, it has a 2 second cast time (with decent points in fast casting), 10 second recharge, and is effective for 6 seconds. Combined with a couple of Wastrel's Worries, you could around 120 dmg (at high Dom) during the time that Diversion is on if the toucher waits out the diversion. Throw on an Energy Burn for another 80 dmg. If the toucher waits out the first diversion there's at least a 6 second downtime before you can get the second one on him. During this 6 second down time, the toucher can get off 3-4 touches, doing 195 to 260 dmg to you while healing themselves for that same amount.
Blackout is a counter to almost every build, but disables your skills too, so you won't be doing much damage to the toucher either.
Diversion and Blackout will slow the toucher, but won't kill him, unless he's dumb enough to use a skill when diversion is on him.
Even mild energy denial (eg. Malaise or Wither) coupled with Signet of Humility causes a lot of problems for Touch Rangers.
The problem with Malaise is that the toucher can spam his touch skills, and when he gets down to 0 energy, Malaise/Wither will end. In a few seconds, he will be at 5 energy and can use OoB to get his energy back up.
Signet of Humility will disable their elite for 13 seconds. A pretty good counter if you can time it just before they need to use OoB.
Snare the ranger and run away. Ward Against Foes and other area snares are highly effective against groups of Touch Rangers.
Traps, ward against foes, etc. will help against touchers. But often they will plague touch the cripple away. Ward against Foes does well.
Focused damage and health degeneration. Life stealing is slow and inefficient healing relative to pure healing spells.
Make them your primary target. However, your melee type players should move away from them and thus can't contribute to the damage being dealt. With high armor against elemental dmg, your ele will need some timet o kill them.
If timed properly, Meteor Shower should keep them down long enough for them to be taken down, as they can only heal by touching others.
Cast a MS and stand in it. Again, this is elemental dmg and they can usually get a touch or two in before the next KD, thus losing almost no health.
Crippling Anguish can slow them and cause health degen, two things that the build can't handle.
Yes, this will mess them up. As will imagined burden, Ehtereal or Kitah's Burden. More on Illusion Mesmers later.
Assassins armed with skill interrupts/knockdowns can also shut down this build.
If they bring some sort of skill to prevent blocking/evasion by the ranger.
Water Elementalists can be used to slow down a touch ranger and deal damage before it can reach its target; Mind Freeze is particularly effective.
Mind Freeze will do great. But it's not a very high dmg elite. Again, with high armor against elemental, a water ele takes a long time to kill a toucher.
What I find works best is Illusion Mesmer skills that slow and other that degen them. I typically run a Shared Burden/Imagined Burden build (since touchers tend to bunch) along with Mantra of Persistence when I see a lot of touchers around, and then throw degens on them. This is probably the most effective build against touchers and it's not completely useless against other builds too.
Quote: Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes just bring a cripple/poison/interrupt ranger and you win. Touchers typically have dodge/zojun's haste/whirling defense on, so good luck trying to hit them with your arrows.
Quote: Originally Posted by mathijn a toucher chains skills, so if you know how to interrupt(frenzy+choking gas?)
they are useless. How did this work out for you? I hope you eventually realized that choking gas only interrupts spells not skills.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade Just because it's difficult to beat doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. 2 Diversions and their entire skillbar is shot. Even worse is to just use Scourge Healing on them while you're using the diversions. At 12-16 smite it completely cancels the healing they get. That means you can go R/Mo with Scourge Healing and stop their touches from healing them, meaning that if you also pack Distracting Shot and another interrupt or two you can completely neutralize them. Called Shot also bypasses their stances, so Scourge Heal + Called Shot will kill them easily enough. Distracting shot will hit if they're not in a stance, which they usually are. Even if they're not in a stance, you have to anticipate the touch and fire before they touch. If you mistime, have fun running around for 10 seconds while it recharges.
How did Scourge Healing work out? Pretty badly I'm guessing since it only works on direct heals and not on life stealing.
Quote: Originally Posted by Brahm Earis I've got a touch ranger, and here's a couple of hints to stop them.
1.) Slow them down. Cripple, knockdown, imagined burden, ward against foes, something to slow them down.
2.) Mesmers. Mesmers always own the hell out of my touch, especially diversion.
3.) Stop sucking. Learn to play and stop whining. Wild blow>whirling defense and lightning reflexes. Diversion>touch skills. Cripple, imagined burden, ward against foes, knock down>running.
Thats my input. My ranger is touch for PVP at the moment, and they aren't all uber unbeatable. KDs are OK against touchers, except you usually need to be in melee range to KD and that means they're gonna be stealing back life.
See my earlier note on diversion, a toucher can usually wait it out without too much trouble.
Wild Blow will work well to end their stance. But there are very few warriors that can go toe to toe with a toucher and still win. As the warrior bashes them for damage, they are doing 130 dmg to the war and healing themselves for that same amount every 3 seconds. Don't bother trying to heal with Healing Sig, as they'll steal as much or more life from you as the heal.
Quote: Originally Posted by R_Frost
touch ranegsr were created through smart thinking like all the other builds so it would be wrong to nerf touch rangers (not sure if what im saying makes sense but w/e) A lot of builds that have been nerfed were created through smart thinking, so this fact doesn't preclude a nerf for touchers.
Having played a toucher myself, I have to say it is an easy build to play and is highly effective against a multitude of builds.
A quick review of counters to touchers that ppl brought up:
Quote: Originally Posted by TwinRaven I can't beleive so many people fussing about this...think of it as a game of "Tag"...the trick is not to get touched...How do you accomplish this? RUN AWAY! Kiting, kiting, kiting...try it for Dwayna's sake...sheesh SO simple...SO many people have figured this out already...leave my build alone.
EDIT: Please look here for suggested counters for touch rangers...took me 2 minutes to find it: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/R/N_Touch_Ranger Taken from the GuildWiki link posted by TwinRaven above:
Use anti-spammer strategies, such as Blackout or Diversion.
Diversion is a good counter. However, it has a 2 second cast time (with decent points in fast casting), 10 second recharge, and is effective for 6 seconds. Combined with a couple of Wastrel's Worries, you could around 120 dmg (at high Dom) during the time that Diversion is on if the toucher waits out the diversion. Throw on an Energy Burn for another 80 dmg. If the toucher waits out the first diversion there's at least a 6 second downtime before you can get the second one on him. During this 6 second down time, the toucher can get off 3-4 touches, doing 195 to 260 dmg to you while healing themselves for that same amount.
Blackout is a counter to almost every build, but disables your skills too, so you won't be doing much damage to the toucher either.
Diversion and Blackout will slow the toucher, but won't kill him, unless he's dumb enough to use a skill when diversion is on him.
Even mild energy denial (eg. Malaise or Wither) coupled with Signet of Humility causes a lot of problems for Touch Rangers.
The problem with Malaise is that the toucher can spam his touch skills, and when he gets down to 0 energy, Malaise/Wither will end. In a few seconds, he will be at 5 energy and can use OoB to get his energy back up.
Signet of Humility will disable their elite for 13 seconds. A pretty good counter if you can time it just before they need to use OoB.
Snare the ranger and run away. Ward Against Foes and other area snares are highly effective against groups of Touch Rangers.
Traps, ward against foes, etc. will help against touchers. But often they will plague touch the cripple away. Ward against Foes does well.
Focused damage and health degeneration. Life stealing is slow and inefficient healing relative to pure healing spells.
Make them your primary target. However, your melee type players should move away from them and thus can't contribute to the damage being dealt. With high armor against elemental dmg, your ele will need some timet o kill them.
If timed properly, Meteor Shower should keep them down long enough for them to be taken down, as they can only heal by touching others.
Cast a MS and stand in it. Again, this is elemental dmg and they can usually get a touch or two in before the next KD, thus losing almost no health.
Crippling Anguish can slow them and cause health degen, two things that the build can't handle.
Yes, this will mess them up. As will imagined burden, Ehtereal or Kitah's Burden. More on Illusion Mesmers later.
Assassins armed with skill interrupts/knockdowns can also shut down this build.
If they bring some sort of skill to prevent blocking/evasion by the ranger.
Water Elementalists can be used to slow down a touch ranger and deal damage before it can reach its target; Mind Freeze is particularly effective.
Mind Freeze will do great. But it's not a very high dmg elite. Again, with high armor against elemental, a water ele takes a long time to kill a toucher.
What I find works best is Illusion Mesmer skills that slow and other that degen them. I typically run a Shared Burden/Imagined Burden build (since touchers tend to bunch) along with Mantra of Persistence when I see a lot of touchers around, and then throw degens on them. This is probably the most effective build against touchers and it's not completely useless against other builds too.
Quote: Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes just bring a cripple/poison/interrupt ranger and you win. Touchers typically have dodge/zojun's haste/whirling defense on, so good luck trying to hit them with your arrows.
Quote: Originally Posted by mathijn a toucher chains skills, so if you know how to interrupt(frenzy+choking gas?)
they are useless. How did this work out for you? I hope you eventually realized that choking gas only interrupts spells not skills.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade Just because it's difficult to beat doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. 2 Diversions and their entire skillbar is shot. Even worse is to just use Scourge Healing on them while you're using the diversions. At 12-16 smite it completely cancels the healing they get. That means you can go R/Mo with Scourge Healing and stop their touches from healing them, meaning that if you also pack Distracting Shot and another interrupt or two you can completely neutralize them. Called Shot also bypasses their stances, so Scourge Heal + Called Shot will kill them easily enough. Distracting shot will hit if they're not in a stance, which they usually are. Even if they're not in a stance, you have to anticipate the touch and fire before they touch. If you mistime, have fun running around for 10 seconds while it recharges.
How did Scourge Healing work out? Pretty badly I'm guessing since it only works on direct heals and not on life stealing.
Quote: Originally Posted by Brahm Earis I've got a touch ranger, and here's a couple of hints to stop them.
1.) Slow them down. Cripple, knockdown, imagined burden, ward against foes, something to slow them down.
2.) Mesmers. Mesmers always own the hell out of my touch, especially diversion.
3.) Stop sucking. Learn to play and stop whining. Wild blow>whirling defense and lightning reflexes. Diversion>touch skills. Cripple, imagined burden, ward against foes, knock down>running.
Thats my input. My ranger is touch for PVP at the moment, and they aren't all uber unbeatable. KDs are OK against touchers, except you usually need to be in melee range to KD and that means they're gonna be stealing back life.
See my earlier note on diversion, a toucher can usually wait it out without too much trouble.
Wild Blow will work well to end their stance. But there are very few warriors that can go toe to toe with a toucher and still win. As the warrior bashes them for damage, they are doing 130 dmg to the war and healing themselves for that same amount every 3 seconds. Don't bother trying to heal with Healing Sig, as they'll steal as much or more life from you as the heal.
Quote: Originally Posted by R_Frost
i can take my ranger one on one with a touch ranger(or any other caster). 9 of 10 times ill beat the touch with normal bow skills. incendary arrows(everytime arrow hits target is interupted and set on fire),tigers fury,pin down,savage shot,distracting shot, serpents quickness, troll ungent and whatever i feel like throwing in for the 8th slot.
If a touchers is not using a stance, they're just bad players. If they're in a stance like they should be, only 1/4 of your arrows will hit. With Tiger's Fury on, you'll be shooting arrows once every 1.33 secs (with a short or flatbow). That means every 5.33 secs, you'll hit them once. They'll be doing 195-260 dmg to you over that time while healing themselves. If your Pin Down misses, you'll have to wait over 10 seconds for it to recharge and hope it hits this time. Once they get up close, they can touch off the fire or cripple on to you. With no running skills, a good toucher shouldn't have much trouble with your build.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade
Just something you all may want to consider- Favorable Winds, Seeking Arrows, whatever you want. Now they can't stop your arrows from hitting them, and a simple Pin Down will slow them enough to take them out.
Yes, this build will work. Hit them with some high damage stuff after Pin Down and this should kill them pretty fast. Quote:
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n
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaith Faer
I say nerf Bonders, it's sooo cheap how they keep the NPC's alive in Fort Aspenwood... Let's nerf Adrenaline too, those Warriors have way too much spike potential! 
I'd prefer it if ArenaNet left touch rangers alone and went to work on important things. Besides, how often does a Touch Team take Halls as compared to, oh, maybe... IWAY?
Whatever they do, I hope they do it soon. I can't stand the 12876514617171461771 threads about touchers sucking, or the suspense of waiting to see what they are going to do to the build...
They are in the game for a reason... Why don't you think about that reason before you request/demand that they be removed? Perfect example of one that only knows how to play Touch Ranger.
I'd prefer it if ArenaNet left touch rangers alone and went to work on important things. Besides, how often does a Touch Team take Halls as compared to, oh, maybe... IWAY?
Whatever they do, I hope they do it soon. I can't stand the 12876514617171461771 threads about touchers sucking, or the suspense of waiting to see what they are going to do to the build...
They are in the game for a reason... Why don't you think about that reason before you request/demand that they be removed? Perfect example of one that only knows how to play Touch Ranger.
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
So, an Air Spiker with blinding flash should bring some form cripple or slowdown just for touchers? Maybe bring some water skills? So they should put some points into Water Magic, thus reducing their Air Spiking ability against rangers who already have high armor against elemental? Maybe they should also bring Water Attunement so they can use Deep Freeze when it becomes available? The fire nukers should do the same?
wow... just wow...
i thought windborne speed and shock/gale were air magic attribute-skills
when i play nuker in ABs, i tend to take bed of coals/lava font... the DoT helps a lot when i'm fighting touchers
i thought windborne speed and shock/gale were air magic attribute-skills
when i play nuker in ABs, i tend to take bed of coals/lava font... the DoT helps a lot when i'm fighting touchers
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
Is there anyone here that didn't already know this? I didn't think so. We know how to beat touch rangers. I'm just not willing to take mesmer secondary with diversion on every character I pvp with so I can play on an even field with touch rangers.
Are you talking to yourself?
If you knew how, why even bother with this thread.
Who said Diversion was needed to paly on an even field with touch Rangers.
Use your brain (if you have a functioning one) before you post
If you knew how, why even bother with this thread.
Who said Diversion was needed to paly on an even field with touch Rangers.
Use your brain (if you have a functioning one) before you post
D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Ivy
Are you talking to yourself?
If you knew how, why even bother with this thread.
Who said Diversion was needed to paly on an even field with touch Rangers.
Use your brain (if you have a functioning one) before you post
I too feel as if I am talking to myself when i encounter a believer that touch rangers can and should be nerfed.
They each one I tell that each and every way you have thought of to nerf the TRs would cause an inbalance elsewhere.
Please people this is the last time I'll ever say it...don't beg for nerfs when there are easy ways past them
If you knew how, why even bother with this thread.
Who said Diversion was needed to paly on an even field with touch Rangers.
Use your brain (if you have a functioning one) before you post
I too feel as if I am talking to myself when i encounter a believer that touch rangers can and should be nerfed.They each one I tell that each and every way you have thought of to nerf the TRs would cause an inbalance elsewhere.
Please people this is the last time I'll ever say it...don't beg for nerfs when there are easy ways past them 
I doubt they will nerf touch rangers since to be an effective one you need to buy 2 chapters of GW. It's like nerfing their best customers just before Chapter 3 pre-order. Besides, it is not overpowered and hardly used in GvG tournaments.
But it is a new build which is not countered by many of the earlier cookie-cutter pvp builds.
But it is a new build which is not countered by many of the earlier cookie-cutter pvp builds.