Anti-"Freeloader" Extremists?

Aaaaagh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 02:08 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

They say, there's no "I" in "TEAM".
How can it be your time then?
The moment you join a team, you agree to share your time with the time of other players.

Well, its hardly my fault that the moron who originally spelled team didnt spell it tiem, or my favoirte itieiami.

Your argument is because there is not letter i in team, I am then not entitled to my own time? When ever I am with others, then I lose all of 'my' time to 'our' time? No.

Human nature is to be selfish, people think its bad, but its a very good thing. Its what keeps us going, striving; charity is only helping yourself, making yourself feel good. People seem to frown on that philosophy, but its true, and its good. I am human, I am selfish. There may not be an I in team, but there damn well should be. I am not here to make a group of 7 strangers happy, I am here to make me happy.

To counter your argument with one of like thought: There may not be an I in team, but there sure as hell is a ME.

And thats who I am here for, I dont care about you or anyone else. You dont care about me or anyone else. That doesnt make us bad, that makes us normal.

[/QUOTE]

EinValentine

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

A Lovely Suburb

12 Jul 2005 at 02:34 - 242

The most important thing is just to let people know what's going on. And short of a real emergency (I just love how we went from having to go potty to OMG HITLER IS IN MY LIVING ROOM KILLING MY CHILDREN!1!!!) it's awfully easy to type "something came up - must go now", so the rest of the party isn't in the dark.

Then THEY can decide how to deal with your absence. And if you are absent long enough for them to troop back to town and kick you, well too bad for you. When I play with a real player I expect them to provide a better use of a slot than a henchie would and taking extended AFKs is not part of the equation.

Seriously though, in the course of three playthroughs of the game I've had far more troubles with folks getting discoed or just leaving because they are silly than I ever have with AFKs. (Though the guy that freeloaded through nearly the entirety of Hell's Precipice did get my nose out of joint.) There are plenty of natural break points in missions where people can hit the toilet or grab a snack. Finish a mission in Fissure - take a quick break. Not a complex concept.

Rumsolazy

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

Aurora Legends

Mo/W

12 Jul 2005 at 02:48 - 243

Well, I don't think anyone find it fun even the OP when in the middle of the mission one team member said "hey I got to go for dinner for 1 hours, be patient and wait for me"

Ashley Twig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

germany

Guild Of Openhearted Deeds

R/Mo

12 Jul 2005 at 05:44 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Well, its hardly my fault that the moron who originally spelled team didnt spell it tiem, or my favoirte itieiami.

Nobody said, that it's your fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Your argument is because there is not letter i in team, I am then not entitled to my own time? When ever I am with others, then I lose all of 'my' time to 'our' time? No.

No, that's not my argument.
The thing with sayings like "Ther's no I in TEAM" is, that they're not to be interpreted literally, because they don't make sense if you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Human nature is to be selfish,

If that is true I'd like to state that I am not human.
Whatever I am, humanity does not run through my veines.
And I don't get involved into humanitarien actions, whatever they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

charity is only helping yourself, making yourself feel good.

Of course it's makeing me feel good.
But it also makes the person I'm helping feel good.
So it's a win-win situationi.

If I was human, I'd be thinking about my personal gains only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

To counter your argument with one of like thought: There may not be an I in team, but there sure as hell is a ME.

Yes. You are right.
There is, however, another saying that goes like:
"If everybody in the world is just thinking about him/herself, everybody is thought of"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

And thats who I am here for, I dont care about you or anyone else.

I'm curious: Do you have friends?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

You dont care about me or anyone else.

I do care about you. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting this text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

That doesnt make us bad, that makes us normal.

In that caseI wish poeple wouldn't be normal. A bit more craziness could add some colour to the world.

Watersong

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 05:56 - 245

Just sounds like an angsty teen to me.

Evan The Cursed

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 06:11 - 246

Did I mention I like pie? (What like this thread hasn't devolved enough on its own; I'm just pushing it deeper into its open grave)

Aaaaagh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 06:20 - 247

@Ashely Twig
Read up on some phillosopy and sociology (Chaos Theory), humans are selfish, and like I said before thats a good thing. You have been socialized to think being selfish is bad, when it really isnt. You abhor that you might be selfish, so much that you make statements that you may not be human?

Yes, helping others makes you and them feel good, so its win-win. That doesnt address why you do it though, its to make YOU feel good, not them.

You do not care about me for unselfish reasons, if you do indeed care about me then you are somehow getting something from it. In the end we all do what is best for us, and our families. Speaking of which, of course I have friends, and a family. When I said I didnt care about anyone else, you took it out of context. The current context is the game, specifically Guild Wars.

About you being normal, and not wanting to. You are simply thinking of it all wrong, once you accept the 'MEness' that is mankind, you will realize that it doesnt much matter. We are selfish, everything we do is to benefit ourselves. That doesnt change things. I volunteer time to help distressed teens, I realize that I really am doing it for myself, but it still helps them just the same. The only thing that changes is (y)our realization of the truth.

@Watersong
Im sorry you feel that way, I suggest you educate yourself. Then again, some of us enjoy 'living in the Matrix.'

EmperorTippy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 06:23 - 248

PvP needs a paue in between matches. Why? Because my random team had a 30 win streak of flawless victiories and we all had to piss. So we took turns going AFK to piss on this one match. We all died

I want a option inbetween matches to pause for like 5 miniutes or even restart that 30 second counter.

Aaaaagh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 06:37 - 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

PvP needs a paue in between matches. Why? Because my random team had a 30 win streak of flawless victiories and we all had to piss. So we took turns going AFK to piss on this one match. We all died

I want a option inbetween matches to pause for like 5 miniutes or even restart that 30 second counter.

Hehe, since this thread has gone so off topic anyhow...

Maybe not a pause, but after every match the leader would have to hit the enter button again. Im not saying you would leave the map, you could just hit enter from there when your ready. You couldnt change skills or anything, it's only purpose would be to let you take a break.

Of course, the problem to this would be that the leader may not hit the button. If so, you would have to map back, it should much matter because if the leader is AFK then you probably wouldnt have won your match anyhow (being one man short).

EmperorTippy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 06:43 - 250

we won 4 of those matches 1 man short (the first 4) idiots kept quitting when we had matches lasting 15+ miniutes in the random arenas. Gotta love that Life Bond+Protective Bond+a Healer Monk

We had 2 E/Mo's both doing pure protect with Life bond and Protective Bond and I had skill breaker. A Healer Monk and a W/Me. Whenever anybody was hit this is what happened (Damage*.05)/2 for the person beoing damaged and (Damage*.05)/2-25 to the person supporting life bond. With olny 1 damage dealer it took forever to kill stuff but nothing could kill us so it's all good

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

12 Jul 2005 at 06:44 - 251

Why even bring up psychology and sociology? Yes, there are aspects of PUGs that fall under those topics, but talk about reading too much into things and overly complicating them.

Facts About PUGs: -

1.) People create/join a PUG because they cannot complete a mission alone. The four+ people in a PUG do have their own "agenda" in that they want the mission done for themself, but they are willing to work together and share their skills to get it done.

2.) Unfortunately, many players like to go AFK at the beginning of a mission and let the rest of the team complete the mission for them, which also gains them gold and experience points in the process.

3.) The fact above is now so common that many groups are sensitive to people who say "BRB" or "AFK". Even those who give a reason are under suspicion, as the group has no way to tell wether or not the person in question is actually coming back.

4.) The fact above is causing the increasingly common eventuality that some people who say "BRB", and actually intend to come back, are kicked from a group. This is the age-old story of bad apples and whatnot.

That's the whole issue laid flat-out in four points. There's no need to go on about psychology and sociology in this topic, it's really as simple as I just laid out.

Louis Ste Colombe

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 09:59 - 252

Also being spot: afker in Arena. bot?

They just get in a random matching arena, and sit there... I guess they're happy getting faction for free

(although not much...)

Louis,

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 10:03 - 253

Yep, that's most likely a bot. People used to run these to leech some of the measly amounts of experience you get from PvP, I suppose now they're back to leech faction. Shouldn't just be a matter of wanting them off your team, these need to disappear from Guild Wars altogether.

Report to support.guildwars.com and let them investigate.

Gwenhywar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Shameful Spirits [SsP]

Mo/

12 Jul 2005 at 11:32 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

If I'm in Fissure of Woe and we have been playing for an hour and I want to eat, then I'm going to eat.

And what stops you from logging out and taking your time to eat? Swallowing your food while listening to the game sounds in the background isn't healthy anyway since you're not concentrating only on your food and people you're eating with

Stick Out Tongue

And if the game is so unimportant to you as you claim it is, then it's no biggie for you to log out while eating, right?

I will agree with those that ask others to be considerate to their teammates. Normally people KNOW when they'll be eating. Or doing groceries. So if you gotta go for an extended period of time, LOG OFF. Or be called a freeloader and dealt with accordingly ...

As to the short breaks, I have never had problem with potty breaks or "grab a drink" breaks in any PUGs I've had, most people want those anyway and it takes just 1 minute or less so doesn't disturb the others.

I've been on a long mission when after an hour and half I had to leave because something came up. The mission was almost done, but I apologized to my group and LOGGED OFF. I don't think they should be dragging my idle character just so I can get the xp! That would be so lame.

That's how I play anyway so I expect same from others ...

(another problem is that while many DO have RL reasons to go afk, and people DO understand it, it's just hard to tell them from those intentional freeloaders ... I'm always waiting if a friend has to go afk, but when it's a stranger - how can we know? Maybe he's doing that every mission).

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

12 Jul 2005 at 11:49 - 255

Any game which allows grouping into teams also needs a votekick function.

IMO.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 12:03 - 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

That's all well and good, but the very fact that two threads exist on this topic means that a good deal of the players do in-fact care if someone goes AFK and whatnot. This isn't about you.

Neither is it just about you. Thats the point I was trying to make a while ago. Not everyone is as prepared as you are. This isn't a straw man attack. This isn't going off topic!

Here's a solution. If someone goes AFK for a period of time longer than a group specified time then an AI takes over and the person is kicked from the game. This is decided before the mission in the town using a voting system. If the vote results in unhappy players then they can leave in town. This way no one can complain if they are kicked for being AFK.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 12:16 - 257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I've been on a long mission when after an hour and half I had to leave because something came up. The mission was almost done, but I apologized to my group and LOGGED OFF. I don't think they should be dragging my idle character just so I can get the xp! That would be so lame.

That's how I play anyway so I expect same from others ...

I played the last shiverpeaks mission yesterday. Now I did not realise how long this mission took. And I was given a vague time for when my food would be ready, since those preparing it were busy. Now I'm very close to the end of the mission and I've helped a lot all the way through and I get a call from downstairs "Foods ready". So I tell the team the situation and they are cool. They tell me I can leave my character to complete the mission since I've helped them loads throughout it. Now according to you this is free-loading, but my team are cool with me leaving my character hanging about for another 5 mins. Fact of the matter is you can't always anticipate how long a mission will take. SO AFK'ing is inevitable. The pace at which you go and thus how long the mission will take depends on your team and this cannot be gauged before a match.

Gwenhywar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Shameful Spirits [SsP]

Mo/

12 Jul 2005 at 12:35 - 258

Thanas - if your team is ok with it, and since it was at the end of a long mission, there is no problem, is there? All the problems start arising when people go AFK in the beginning or middle of missions, which normally is not ok with the rest of the people ...

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 12:38 - 259

I agree. However your post seems to suggest that you should leave at the end of a mission if you have to go AFK then since this is still free-loading.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 12:41 - 260

Quote:

Fact of the matter is you can't always anticipate how long a mission will take.

True.

Quote:

SO AFK'ing is inevitable

True.

Nobody is disputing that it can occur, and as has been indicated over and over in this thread, just drop a line explaining the situation. There's always a chance you have to leave your computer; how you handle that, and the logical consequences of how you handle it, is what has been discussed here.

Let's quit the nitpicking over the exact details.

hahman14

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Dark Faith

R/N

12 Jul 2005 at 13:03 - 261

Ahh, the freeloader. What an interesting and idiotic creature it is. I just wanna stab the little suckers......sorry. Anyways, yes, I totally understand that there are times when people have Legit reasons to go AFK. Most of the time, assuming I have no problems with the person, I will suggest to the group that we wait a bit. I have run into many situations, when nature's call hits me and I have to leave. I always apologize, explain the situation, and move my character out of any possible accidental aggro'ing. Whether it's a drink or preparing a sandwich I always try my best to get back and catch up.

______________________________________________

Self-Made Copy and Pasted Signature------
Always Use the Search Feature before you post a new thread.
You never know how many other people have had the same suggestion as you.
It's more effective for the Developers to find one thread with 1000 posts,
rather than them finding 100 threads with only 10 posts, about the same topic.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

12 Jul 2005 at 13:11 - 262

What just astounds me is that this conversation is -still- going on 261 posts later.

But I do agree with Principa and others that we need to stop nitpicking the minute details of the conversation and focus on common decency.

-If you must go AFK for more than a few minutes, let your companions know if you can and then LOG OUT.

-If you know dinner is coming up, even with a vague knowledge, don't join a PUG. Simply grab henchies and get started. That way, once you're in a safe location and dinner is being served, you can complete your 12 course meal, taking as long as you wish and still come back to finish the mission.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 13:15 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Nobody is disputing that it can occur, and as has been indicated over and over in this thread, just drop a line explaining the situation. There's always a chance you have to leave your computer; how you handle that, and the logical consequences of how you handle it, is what has been discussed here.

Let's quit the nitpicking over the exact details.

I'm not trying to nitpick, just answering a previous post which claims if you AFK you should quit. Also if you read a lot of the earlier posts, they talk about being considerate, the pre-requisites of which are planning toilet and food etc, which is entirely ridiculous since how can you plan these things if

a) You don't routine doesn't work like clockwork
b) You don't know how long a mission will last

The only issue should be when someone AFK's without any explanation AND remains for the whole mission. Sometimes this may even be for a legit reason and not free-loading. The fact that I wasn't expecting food and needing to go to the toilet is not being inconsiderate. I manage to this a lot, but it not malicious, its just the fact that I'm dis-organised. I'm actually a very considerate player in the game. And I dislike being slated for my inability to disorganise myself especially when this is due to my dyslexia.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

12 Jul 2005 at 13:22 - 264

Thanas, as logical as you seem to think your arguments are, they lack sequential thought:

-While restroom breaks are not "plannable" (for instance, I always go at 2pm), they are avoidable for the most part. One generally feels the urge gradually coming upon them and MOST OF US have a reasonable idea how long we can sit before we can hold it no longer.

-You are also missing the point that we have tried to beat you over the head wit....I mean the point we've been trying to make with you....that NO ONE begrudges you a restroom break! Get over that one, for cryin' out loud! EVERYONE has acknowledged that sometimes you gotta go (just like those annoying bladder control commercials say, "Gotta go gotta go gotta go gotta go..."). EVERYONE has indicated that a short "AFK bio-break" will suffice as reason for your -short- absence.

-Finding out how long a mission is going to last is simple. Use the SEARCH option here on this site, read the Prima guide, ask people if they've done this mission before and how long it might take....I could go on ad nauseum but I think those three suffice.

I find your obsession with organization interesting. Are you often berated IRL about your organizational skills (or lack of them)?

Ashley Twig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

germany

Guild Of Openhearted Deeds

R/Mo

12 Jul 2005 at 13:37 - 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I agree. However your post seems to suggest that you should leave at the end of a mission if you have to go AFK then since this is still free-loading.

Well if you want to put a name to it: Yes, it's freeloading.

But if you leave at the end of a mission, and the team if perfectly ok with it, the remaining xp's are a gift from them to you.

One should be thankful if you're on a team like that.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 13:41 - 266

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting! I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot. A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate. As I have pointed out this is simply not true. And maybe yes you can find an approxiamate time for a mission, but this is only approxiamate. You will find some teams are slower and some are faster. For example I played with a team who took 3 hours to do the first few bits of FoW. From what I have gathered our team was slow compared to others who have played this. And what was that you said about nitpicking?

Ashley Twig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

germany

Guild Of Openhearted Deeds

R/Mo

12 Jul 2005 at 13:49 - 267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate.

There are always people who don't agree with you. That's life.

I guess it actually depends on your team.
If you accidentaly end up on a team of rushers, they'll hate you for being slow.
If you're a rusher and end up on a team of slow-mo's they'll hate you for rushing.

So pick your team carefully, and discus their tactics before you head out with them.

And no matter what team you're on:
It's always polite to tell people for how long and why you're going to be afk.

And polite people always have the bonus that they're more apprechiated than impolite people.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

12 Jul 2005 at 13:54 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting! I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot. A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate.

they typical AFKer I have issues with,
go AFK over 15 minutes and say *nothing* of a warning

when they could have just pushed "X" to quit out

I think the most common issue people have talked about here (least in the beginning of the thread) was communication.
(which alot of players lack in GuildWars)

statements like "brb" really says nothing (gives no indication of how long) but most bad AFKers dont even say that

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 13:56 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

There are always people who don't agree with you. That's life.

True, I just expected more from people on these forums. As the vast majority of player on GW are good natured and and are not bigots in any way whatsoever.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 13:58 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting!

This doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion, I am sure many of the people you are debating with think you have a lack of courtesy that is disgusting, but refrain from saying so when it will add nothing of value to the debate.

Quote:

I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot.

Nobody asked that you do. People ask that you possess the ability to lay out maybe an hour or so of uninterrupted time, and that if you cannot you stay out of PUGs and stick with people who you know and are willing to wait for you, or use the henchmen. These arguments about how bathroom breaks are bound to happen on longer missions are pointless because nobody has argued against you on that, you just keep talking to yourself so you have something to argue about.

People want two things:

1) You are making some sort of effort to avoid conflicts when you play. Ie you use the bathroom beforehand if possible, and don't play when you're going to have to eat or pick someone up.

2) If you do run across a conflict, realize that you are inconveniencing the larger group and should be appropriately apologetic.

Nobody here demands you be perfect and always able to play uninterrupted, so stop arguing that. Really, stop. (I'm repeating this for emphasis since the point has been brought up many times by many people and you keep ignoring it) They just ask that to the degree it is possible you minimize your interruptions, and properly explain and apologize when they are unavoidable.

Things like meals are CLEARLY foreseeable and avoidable. Like that story about the dinner with vague time you brought up? Use the friggin henchmen in that case, that's what they're there for.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 13:58 - 271

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I think the most common issue people have talked about here (least in the beginning of the thread) was communication.
(which alot of players lack in GuildWars)

statements like "brb" really says nothing (gives no indication of how long) but most bad AFKers dont even say that

True, this I believe is the essence of this post. People should communicate better.

Ashley Twig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

germany

Guild Of Openhearted Deeds

R/Mo

12 Jul 2005 at 14:06 - 272

I read this once in a book about Murphy's laws:

"If people would listen more, they would talk less"

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 14:07 - 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

This doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion, I am sure many of the people you are debating with think you have a lack of courtesy that is disgusting, but refrain from saying so when it will add nothing of value to the debate.

No I'm just annoyed that some people do not actually listen in these forums, they make no attempt to progress an debate through considering somone elses point. If you read my posts you will find that I have accepted certain things people have said. If no one listens the debate just deteriorates into argument and becomes pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

Nobody asked that you do. People ask that you possess the ability to lay out maybe an hour or so of uninterrupted time, and that if you cannot you stay out of PUGs and stick with people who you know and are willing to wait for you, or use the henchmen. These arguments about how bathroom breaks are bound to happen on longer missions are pointless because nobody has argued against you on that, you just keep talking to yourself so you have something to argue about.

People want two things:

1) You are making some sort of effort to avoid conflicts when you play. Ie you use the bathroom beforehand if possible, and don't play when you're going to have to eat or pick someone up.

2) If you do run across a conflict, realize that you are inconveniencing the larger group and should be appropriately apologetic.

I am making a perfectly reasonable point. Thankyou! Its just contrary to the majority. This point is completely reasonable. A lot of the posts bring up the issue of being polite and what necessiatates politeness. I believe the only thing that is required is for someone to apologise and give explanation of why they cannot finish the game. Nothing more!

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 14:09 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

I read this once in a book about Murphy's laws:

"If people would listen more, they would talk less"

Right on!

At least some people understand the point of debate.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 14:15 - 275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

No I'm just annoyed that some people do not actually listen in these forums, they make no attempt to progress an debate through considering somone elses point. If you read my posts you will find that I have accepted certain things people have said. If no one listens the debate just deteriorates into argument and becomes pointless.

Huh? This has nothing to do with what I said and you quoted. I pointed out that you stating your disgust with the people you are debating with does not help, and if you are so concerned with the argument deteriorating to pointlessness you should avoid such statements.

Quote:

I am making a perfectly reasonable point. Thankyou! Its just contrary to the majority. This point is completely reasonable. A lot of the posts bring up the issue of being polite and what necessiatates politeness. I believe the only thing that is required is for someone to apologise and give explanation of why they cannot finish the game. Nothing more!

Again, this does not respond to the quoted text above it. If you are not going to respond to what I say, why quote it? I really don't mind if you just ignore my posts (I don't expect everybody on either side to respond to everybody on the other), but there isn't much point to quoting me and then not responding to the things you quote.

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 14:30 - 276

The first quote agreed with the fact you said the point I made I had nothing to offer to the debate. I agreed with you! I was just attempting to justify myself and why I had made that point. The second quote mentions that I am arguing with myself and I countered that through what I said. I shan't answer you again because you obviously don't understand debate, just argument.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 14:39 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

No ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

The first quote agreed with the fact you said the point I made I had nothing to offer to the debate. I agreed with you!

You have a funny way of starting off your agreements.

Quote:

I was just attempting to justify myself and why I had made that point. The second quote mentions that I am arguing with myself and I countered that through what I said.

I wasn't arguing your point, nobody has. We are all in agreement that if you have an unavoidable conflict, you should just apologize, explain, and go take care of it. What we are debating is whether or not it is common courtesy to avoid PUGs when something like that is likely to come up.

Quote:

I shan't answer you again because you obviously don't understand debate, just argument.

Generally, if I feel this way about someone, I just stop responding, and don't make a big production out of it. IMO, the situation is the exact opposite, since you are the one making personal attacks (saying you are 'disgusted' with people, and things like 'you obviously don't understand debate'), which are not a part of debate.

Dalia

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 16:13 - 278

Thanas.... Let me quote Desiderata to you: You are a child of the universe, no less than the moon and the stars, you have a right to be here.... (That was from memory, so excuse me if not 100 percent accurate.)

You don't need to start a thread, hover over it for two days, and respond to every post to validate your existence in the world or provide yourself with a sense of self-worth. As you mentioned in your FIRST post, GW is a game. There's so many things in life that are more important.

Pick a cause that's important to you and contribute to it. I think you'll find you'll feel better about yourself and about others if you do. Time, which you claim is so important to you, can be better served elsewhere.

Now, flame away, if you must, but I mean this sincerely. It's depressing to see folks trolling their lives away.

Dalia

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

12 Jul 2005 at 16:49 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalia

Thanas.... Let me quote Desiderata to you: You are a child of the universe, no less than the moon and the stars, you have a right to be here.... (That was from memory, so excuse me if not 100 percent accurate.)

You don't need to start a thread, hover over it for two days, and respond to every post to validate your existence in the world or provide yourself with a sense of self-worth. As you mentioned in your FIRST post, GW is a game. There's so many things in life that are more important.

Pick a cause that's important to you and contribute to it. I think you'll find you'll feel better about yourself and about others if you do. Time, which you claim is so important to you, can be better served elsewhere.

Now, flame away, if you must, but I mean this sincerely. It's depressing to see folks trolling their lives away.

Dalia

I'm at work and bored. My job is a joke and I have an internet. I like having debates, no matter what the subject matter. Just don't like pointless argument. But point taken.

DiAnna

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

12 Jul 2005 at 17:27 - 280

LOL! Don't like pointless argument?

Gotta love it!

That said, I think a fast potty break during a rest/heal moment on a mission is more than fine with most folks. Asking 7 other people to cool their heels for a 15-20 minute dinner break is beyond self-indulgent, however. Would you invite me over to play pool, then leave me twiddling my thumbs in your game room while you and your family enjoyed their meal? If so, I definitely don't wanna party with you, my man!

And yes, I realize I have no life or I wouldn't have spent time reading this thread. But sometimes one simply cannot tear one's gaze from a trainwreck, no matter how bloody it might be!