GW Stock Market Crash!

I'm a GW stock trader in materials and runes. I always had a nice mixed holdings of materials and runes bought when their prices were down. Makes between 10-40K per day without having to spend much time playing! But after the patch, the market crashed! The ratio of NPC selling and buying went way up! Superior sword runes sold in the market for 2.5K gets bought back into the market for less than 500 at the same instant! Any other stock traders feeling the crash and can't unload tonnes of runes/materials?

Dyes haven't gone down from what I've heard. And superior vigors and absorbions are still expensive.

Yep look at black dye. Was being sold by trader for 8K+ but olny being bought for about 4.5K.

EDIT: THe cost to buy them didn't decrease olny the price that the trader payed for them went down.

Not only that but they are paying 1gp for most dye!

Will I bother to pick up anything BUT black dye from now on?

This is insane, we need a minimun price for rune and dye or the NPC trader system will fail since noboby is going to bother with runes and dyes unless its black dye, vigor and absortion runes.

Hmm... maybe they just flushed the market this time. Maybe reset the amount for all stock? Hopefully the buying price will go back up when the demand brings it bak?

...

Then again, probably not. The selling price is still high up there.

One good thing is it will probably curb inflation by alot. Maybe forcing people to sell stuff for cheaper at Lions Arch?

It will have a worst effect.

Few people bother with dyes, they rarely drop and are worth crap now for the trader, most people avoid dye their items until they reach their ultimate armor/weapons.

Also there is pre-searing dye farming.

Runes are worth crap now, a lot because the HP penality they have on major and superior and nobody wants anything but vigor and absortion andince ninor runes have became so common and cheap everyone simply buy then and sell then to the NPC trader.

About a month ago people were swimming in money since farming was easy and prices were good, now farming is dificult (since there are no good spots) and prices are junk and that leads to even more grind.

Most people dont want to trade, trading is anoying in this game because most people rather farm later areas and hope that going to trade with others, besides in order to be a trader you end up being next to a merchant and flood the trade channel with your sale pitch.

If this keep up the persons that win are the online gold sellers.

Stop your damn whining. Finally A net fixed this so everything works fine now. It was because of people like you guys that the prices were so high in the first place.

Now that I thought about it, it will make prices even higher. Simple logic here. Supply and Demand. On the Supply side, with buying prices so low, people will be less inclined to sell their stuff to the market and more likely to store it and sell it directly to other players. (Really, u found that superior Fire rune and u wanna sell it to NPC for 200G?) On the Demand side, well, the Demand for stuff will always remain constant. So when u put things together. Constant Demand and a Decrease in Supply, you get price hikes. That's how the free market works. We could see the cost of market stuff jump even higher... unless the Devs artificially inject supply into the market.

This fix just raises prices over time. With the horrible low amount of money the trader is wiling to pay for, say black dye (pays like 4.5K for a dye he sells for 8K or at 56% of their value), no one with the item will sell to the trader. The traders buying price doen't set the player-to-player tradeing market the traders selling price does that and with the huge difference no one sells to the trader. Imagine it this way: You find a black dye, the trader is at the previously stated numbers for buy/sell and with with 5 miniutes of effort you can sell that black dye for 5.5K. You make 1K more and the dye trader never sees any of this transaction. Now I have lots of gold to spend and decide to buy black dye. I am willing to pay the 8K per dye and not have to wait an instante to get it. The price of the dye increase. Now you find another black dye. The trader is selling for 10K now and will buy for 5.5K, with a few miniutes of effort you can sell that dye for 6.5 to 7K. The cycle continues with the inflation steadly rising the price but with ANets continued nerfing of the farming spots most people lose the way that they were making money. This reduces the number of people who can afford these items and people start calling for a lower price on the items. This is were ANet messes up.

Instead of making people want to sell to the trader they end up with no one selling to the trader and the prices going higher again. To fix the economy all ANet has to do is make traders buy from players for 80%-90% of the price they sell for. With that small a difference there is no real incentive to trade this item between players. (I can sell black dye to the trader for 9K and players can buy it for 10K from him/her, if it takes me 10 miniutes to sell the dye for 9.5K then I have lost money (you can farm more than 50 gold a miniute)) With players now seling to the trader because the price vs. time required is greater than what they can get with selling to other players. The more dyes sold to the trader the lowere the price to buy them. This iss the same type of cycle previously mentioned exccept decreasing instead of increaseing the cost of items.

Sorry for the long post. Hope it made since. Read the whole thing before commenting on it though.

Beat me to it but just because mine was a more indepth explantion.

I liked it better when the trader bought stuff anywhere from 75-85% of its sell price =/

^^
Yes I did to but that was like 3 updates ago. In the last 2 it was like that until an item was worth over about 4K and then it steadily decreased but now well... its pretty bad.

Wooh! Nobody's buying from traders!

Inflation for the win!

It is good

Nowadays I just sell for otherwise rip off prices and just point to trader pricing as a reference..

Well, since the trader is trying to rip me by offering 30g for steel that he himself sells for 295, then let rip!

I'm just curious: What is it with black dye?
Does it give any supernatural powers?
Does it increase armor or anything?
Does it do anything but look stupid?

Warrior Rune of Superior Strength costs 62k, higher than the Superior Vigor rune. Is that normal? o.x

No system is perfect. The original system created wealth inbalances with economically minded people making millions who could easily blow 100K on a bow string and the regular players who goes through the trouble of farming to provide goods for us market players to take advantage of in the market. I'm not suprised that most players who played for months still had a bank account of less than 100K while a few of us hovers well over the million G mark.

The new system was probably an "communist" attempt to level the field a bit. Kinda like making the market government controlled and remove the source of income for the Burgeoise. But like many ideology ideals, ideologies don't always work exactly in reality.

It's good though that GW continue to try find new methodes of doing things. Hopefully there's a perfect economic solution for GW and we can all adopt it into real world economy one day!

its ridiculous

if they continue nerfing, im gonna NERF my account!

i used to be able to sell runes / weapons / whatever and make 50k plus a day, got up to 500k... now.. im spending my money and not able to sell stuff due to farming, and loot decrease.. and to play the material market is too risky now

WTF arena... stop taking the fun otta the game, were not all playin for PVP

DAMN IT

Alas, we have already seen the reprocussions of this new "communist" regime. Inflation runs rampant. Pretty soon, u'll have to shell out 20K for a minor Fire rune.

Last price check. Rune of Superior Absorbtion reached 75K mark. Can somebody find out how much the market is buying them for?

well what about play without farming, trade for reasonable prices (not 50k a day or 100000k for a sigil) and make enough money and enjoy the game. I personally don't farm and even after the updates I still have enpugh money for anything and I have the best ranger armor and best bow and guild hall right now. So i guess it is possible in the end. Well, if money is the only reason you are playin Guild Wars you should go to ultima because there let's say if you are a miner it takes u like 55 mins to get a charcoal oout of a mine and u only sell it for 50 gold. Lol.... Then what ppl u play ultima say? 'Wtf ea'? Lol, don't think so...

it doesn't give u any super natural powers in game for sure but it sure looks awesome with dragon armor...

Supply-demand curve is the only explanation for its price...

"Looks awesome"... In my opinion, it "looks" unoriginal, plain, and simply a symbol of wealth now.

People used to love red.
People used to love blue.

You've got to love trends. Everybody else does.

Now the NPC is buying black dye for 1 gold and selling it for 7k.

and thi is exactly what im talkin about... 75k for a rune? thats insane.. but i guess not as insane as what i saw 2 days ago: someone paid 110 k for a 10(10) sundering bow string (not even the bow)... i dont wanna get into all that math about how crappy is 10 10 sundering anyway saying itys gonna hit 1 out of 10 and will do 4 or 5 xtra dmg and how many shots can u make in a fight etc... so please try to be reasonable about prices and stop complaining about new market updates as they were needed and the really started to balance some stuff in game... ***applauses ANet***

Yeah, black dye is simply a symbol of presteige now.

I could never farm, so I was sort of happy that I could finally buy runes at the rune trader for cheap. Especially minor vigor (so I can use it whenever I want on each new set of armor). However, it sort of sucks, because now, all of my unidentified runes aren't worth jack squat.

The point is this doesn't balance the market it unbalances it even more. In the short term prices MIGHT decrease slightly but if the traders buy price stays at the same percentage that its at then you will end up with one of the worst possible economys in a video game possible even worss than D2's. Nerfs cause most people (not all but most) to lose about 90% of their income, combine this with a market were the cost is drasticaly increasing and what happens? Most people can't afford anything. The people who can still win HoH are fine and can buy the superior items and that extra 4-5 damage upgrade but most people can't afford anything. Imagine in the real world you take a 50% pay cut but the cost of food doubles and your morgage increase by 50%. This is essentialy what ANet did with the nerfs and economy. It doesn't have as bad affects on the player (no being homeless or starving) but you can't buy that black dye or that 15K armor or that rune.

EDIT: BTW I have enough money were I don't really have to worry about the market much except for Obsidian Shards and Ectoplasm which has held steady after the update.

WTF were you guys doing with "500K a day"?

Seriously, WTH are you guys complaining about?

Anarchist_Monk: Well said!

Lol... this is what i'm saying.. the reason they have the updates is not to put the prices down but get the ppl to start actually playing the game instead of taking the shortcuts like trying to buy best items by trade... Find 'em... simply if u play enough and don't farm a lot it's not hard to get anything that is extremely valuable in the market... I had 4 black dyes dropping in 1 map in maguuma so I guess this is quite possible to get a full black dye'd set w/o paying 30-40 k by trading

I'm not worried about money. I got enough of that. I'm just annoyed because I'm stuck with all these expensive runes and rare materials that I can't sell anymore. AND I use my 3 extra avatars as mules whenever I don't play them! Their inventory are all full and I can't bear the thought of losing all those goods for a fraction of the purchase price.

so be a little more generous and sell them for cheaper as u will find a lot more of those in the way

btw i am in the same situation but no complaints.. i already have everything i need

Rune of Superior Absorbtion went up 4K's to 79,465 within the last hour. The other runes and materials are steadily increasing in price. Buying stuff will be so much more expensive now.

Rare material trader is buying obsidian back for 100g, yet sells for over 4k? That makes z e r o sense, unless everything was flushed or whatever.

Drizzt134 add [/ to the end of that right before QUOTE] to make it work.
(reffering to Drizzt134's post 5 above mine)

Now I know it is possible but as I said because of the nerfs this is VARY rare if non-existent. The problem is when the farming nerfs are combined with the economy 'fixes'.

And even if you don't farm the nerfs still affect you. Were you used to be able to have about 50K at the end of the game with no farming and just doing the missions and most of the quests, you now have about 10-25K after doing the exact same thing.

When this gold is taken into the market is were the biggest affect is. Before the economic 'fixes' you could buy about 20 black dye (it averaged 2.5-3K a piece back then) with your 50K. Today you could buy between 5-6 dye today for that same 50K. Your gold to day is worth 25% of what it was worth before. This doesn't apply to just black dye. It also applys to runes and item upgrades between players.

So to summarize: Less gold for each player because of nerfs. More gold needed to buy stuff today because of economic 'fixes'. A cycle were prices continue to increase. This all equals a very bad economic situation in game.

Except that nobody will be generous towards you, I like your idealism but that's the bitter truth.

Yes, I am willing to play, and keep playing, and keep keep playing.. except.. an extra dimension of the game has effectively been destroyed.

It will hurt the economy in the very long run, because with such low creation of wealth for the GENERAL POPULACE (apart from that 1% we see winning the HoH from time to time, ok, maybe less than 1%, not even 0.001% even!) will be able to remotely afford anything.

So they have their fine and dandy wares, and all the gold they can possess.. and nothing else they can do about it.

Except maybe occasionally walk through the streets of LA whereupon every other character will automatically invoke a /kneel emote and treat them like Gods.

Do you even know basic economics? How will this be better for the economy, tell me!

Here is a clue stick, visualise a real economy in your head.. a buzzing economy. Now, cut the wealth of this population and correspondingly increase prices of living. What do we have?

Megapolis? No! Every single corporation in that economy will go bust! Spending will stagnate and movement of goods and money justs seizes.

^^
I explained it better and was nicer but thats the mean, condensed version for people to lazy to read mine.

Yeap, your response was pretty good.

But one more point I wished to add, before implementing all these drastic changes ANET had zero consideration of the players who had exploited these issues, and hence meanwhile have amassed a HUUUUGE amount of gold.

Now, if you are a new player, would you be willing to "grind" 5000 hours to obtain that same armor that someone else obtained in 500?

It is effectively a brutal kick to the face of all the honest players, who are "just playing the game", effectively doing what they are meant to do. Meanwhile the detestable bunch has near infinite wealth, near infinite supply of loot, and plenty of status in game.

Sure, it is just a game, but one of the reason why RP took off is sometimes people just enjoy having an alter reality to dabble with. You might argue it, but heck it is the fact, everybody enjoys having the possibility to do things they can never do in the real world.. to be immersed in a new fantasy world.

With these new round of nerfs, what is it becoming? World of Communism? Virtual Socialism 101?

Hey I consider all game economys pratice for playing the real economy and so far it's worked for me. made over 20K this year so far and I'm 16 and with no help from anyone.

The players who "exploited" these issues and ammased this huge amount of gold wern't exploiting. It only became an "exploit" when ANet started swinging the break stuff bat (nerf bat+ the no econmy classes for me in college bat+ the communism bat) and made it nigh impossible for new players to get the items. Hell even casual players to get them.

The update affects people who are stocking rare materials the most. Maybe this is a good thing since people will buy materials to use instead of mass stocking them. And for those that didn't know this before, rare material traders automatically restock.

^^
Known that they restock
It doesn't affect hoarders the most it affects the people who want to buy to use it the most. Hoarders have the stuff from when it was 4K to buy. They can sell these items for 10K now. if the price ever drops down to even 8K the hoarders can buy back all they lost and still make a very large profit. If you read my post about how this causes more problems for the casual player than anyone else it will make more since.
Sorry if I sound snotty it wasn't intentianal.